my pledge for future kickstarters

My previous kickstarters had over 1000 supporters. This one is currently at 375.

My previous 2 kickstarters raised $92,000 and $70,000. This one is currently at $27,000.

This kickstarter is about to wrap up.

In the last DVD kickstarter we sold the DVDs for $25 each (for the 4-DVD set). Afterward it was important to me to respect the people that supported the kickstarter by making sure that the price after the kickstarter was HIGHER than the price paid during the kickstarter. So the 4-DVD set is sold for $105. Frankly, I think that is not respectful enough to the people that supported the kickstarter. Further $105 seems steep for the 4-DVD set and $100 seems right. So, in hindsight, I should have sold the 4-DVD set in the kickstarter for $80 and then $100 after the kickstarter (of course, during the kickstarter we weren't sure if we would sell any DVDs after the kickstarter - but now we have experience).

I see other kickstarters where they are selling DVDs for $30 to $50 each!

With 15,000 people on my daily-ish email, I very much like the idea of doing a kickstarter and seeing 4000 supporters in the first few days. I also like the idea of permaculture kickstarters bringing in a lot of money - thus showing observers "wow - this permaculture stuff must be important!"

With the last kickstarter, 60% of the funding came from the daily-ish email. And the daily-ish email is my favorite thing - i feel like Thor and the daily-ish email is my hammer, and today I'm going to build a better world using this hammer.

I want to better support those that support me - specifically the people that are on my daily-ish email list.

So here is my pledge:

For my future DVD projects I will make the rewards cost MUCH less. And when I sell the DVDs after the kickstarter, i will price them MUCH higher. This is my thanks for being part of my world as I am building our future.

Bart and I made a list of twelve DVD projects for the future. And we have already started recording footage for six of those. Some of them will take two years to gather enough footage. Some will take eight years. Some will take one week.

If we do a 4-DVD set in the future, the price will be $80 and the streaming will be $50. Maybe less. And the post kickstarter price would be $100/$75 (for at least one year). Maybe more.

The point is: I hope to do a lot of kickstarters. And I want to make my direct supporters to get far more candy than the people that are not signed up for my daily-ish email. In fact, I need good people to get more candy.

So, I further pledge that for THIS kickstarter ($75 for the 3-DVD set ($60 for streaming)) for one year after the kickstarter, the price of the 3-DVD set will be $90 ($80 for streaming). So supporting the kickstarter is a MUCH better deal than waiting.

So now I am trying to think of things to make for far more candy for this kickstarter for the people on the daily-ish email (while being respectful to the people that have already supported the kickstarter). Suggestions?

I wish I had the money to support your kickstarters Paul! The quality of product I've seen you put out is certainly worth the support. Damn money. (grumble grumble grumble)

I love candy, but I'm stuck on a nettles and grubs diet for the moment and foreseeable future. Keep it up though. I'll pester the crap out of my library.

I'm glad you're adding more rewards, but a lot of the ones you're adding are things that supporters are likely to already have. For instance the RMH DVDs, mugs and tees. How about something not previously offered? I'm not really sure if you have anything like that, but it's a thought. I pledged for the streaming reward and bought the RMH DVDs off Amazon about the same time and just got 4 permies mugs in the mail yesterday. So the new rewards aren't really too enticing to me.

Rich;)

I'm open to suggestions.

paul wheaton wrote:I'm open to suggestions.

consulting either by phone or in person if the money was right.

I know the "in person" thing can be tough, especially if the travel is long. I wonder if you could gather a group of permaculture designers from across the the world and have them do onsite consultation for those of us too far from you Paul. What if I put up a bucket load of money for your kickstarter and you somehow convinced a certain Northeast permaculture specialist to consult on my land as a reward?

Two people asked that I put a reward in that included consultation. Nobody opted for it. And then i dropped the price. Nobody opted for it. So, today I took it out.

I would like to see a USB stick with the videos on it instead of streaming (I will never BUY a streaming video)
"All three DVDs made available to you via streaming. No physical DVDs ... plus higher quality than the DVDs. You can watch your movies over and over for several years"
The issue I have is if the service is no longer available or has DRM and the server goes down or im away from the internet/ capped rural service I might not ever get to see it again or have to wait till next month.

One thing you could do if offering a wofati kickstarter is have everyone that works on it sign the design we work from and offer it as an award. You could sell 26 "tickets" 1 of the 26 will get the signed copy the other 25 will get a numbered print of the design. For that one you could offer for $1000 someone can stay in the wofati for a week and visit/work on the farm.

I would participate in the current kickstarter but I already paid for 2 weeks of the wofati workshop and am looking to buy 23 acres.

Behind the scenes DVD? Bloopers and outtakes DVD? Lock of Sepp Holzer's hair? A pie made with fruit from the lab?

Rich;)

If I'm on the fence about a KS product, this sounds like it could be an effective carrot for me (I'm referring to the OP).

I very much approve of the sentiment expressed - kickstarters are talking the initial risk on the product so a lower price is sensible/reasonable. We have high expectations of product quality/content etc... but really we don't know what we are getting until it is delivered as a finished product. Regarding ongoing sales, have you looked into commission based systems for getting others to promote and sell the DVD's once they have been produced?

If you offer a decent commission on a high ticket item, like a 4 DVD box set of Earthworks, you will get people queueing up to sell your product for you. Commissions as high as 60% or so are really attractive to promoters and while you may only make 40% you will reach a MUCH wider audience. This also gives you opportunities to build your list further on the basis of other people time and effort promoting your products.

With 15,000 people on my daily-ish email, I very much like the idea of doing a kickstarter and seeing 4000 supporters in the first few days.

Then I suggest that you are likely to be disappointed. It is very rare in any field to see conversions from mailing lists to sales of more than around 5% and you are aiming for more like 30% conversion repeatedly, using the same group of people for high priced products. Most people will think twice before stumping up £100, particularly if they are coming around frequently.

I think with the RMH DVD's you were on to an exceptional product concept - there was literally nothing like it out there - and also were bouyed by the novelty of using kickstarter at the same time. Earthworks on the other hand are relatively well explored in video form (although not so comprehensively as I'm hoping your DVDs will be) and are less widely applicable - not every one has land sufficient for earthworks to be appropriate.

If you are expecting/hoping people will support these kickstarters out of a sense of altruism for the greater good then I suspect you will end up disappointed. I supported the Earthworks kickstarter because I am really interested in the DVD's however the RMH set are no use to me (The UK has really strict building regulations and a RMh will not be appropriate for us).

Expand your mailing list - Geoff Lawton is agressively pushing his list building by making his short videos available to subscribers only. They are excellent quality, tightly focused subject matter, and well edited so very sharable.

Keep making products people want that are relevant to them

Kickstarter is unlikely to be appropriate for every project you want to fund - it isn't the swiss army knife of funding. If your product isn't going to be broadly applicable consider another route (simple paypal donations? sponsorship? grants? profit from other projects?)

Just for interest I did a google search for "rocket stove"

rocket stove mass heater - Richsoil.com
www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp‎
by paul wheaton
When somebody first told me about rocket mass heaters, none of it made sense. The fire burns sideways? No smoke? If a conventional wood stove is 75% ...

Was the 4th result, just below the fold... I bet you get good traffic on that page. Long, lots of embeded videos, good info... BUT... the RMH heater videos for sale are almost lost in the noise and the sign up box for your mailing list is right at the very tail end of the page. Also, the description that google is using for that page is rather weakly phrased, it just isn't grabbing attention.

I'd suggest a total rewrite of this page, with optimisation for increased mailing list signups and a progression through selling the DVD's would give good returns on time spent. This page is pretty much prime internet real estate and is being underutilised. Google adword suggest that 33,000 per month are searching for the keyword "rocket stove" and a suggested advertising bid price of £0.17 is pretty cheap.

Lets say 5% of that 33,000 reach your page -> 1650 visitor (you can find this in your traffic stats,)
Lets say 5% of them convert (on a newly optimised page, selling to highly targeted traffic) and buy the DVD set at $100 -> $8250 in sales per month
Lets also say that 5% of these can be converted to sign up for your mailing list -> 180 new signups just from this page.

These figures are obviously speculative but you can easily run them based on knowledge of your own traffic stats. Based on these stats you could even run profitable paid adverts to draw in even more targetted traffic.

I guess the point here is that you can do a lot better with the material you already have without the need to pressure those who are already on your mailing list.

Michael Cox wrote:

With 15,000 people on my daily-ish email, I very much like the idea of doing a kickstarter and seeing 4000 supporters in the first few days.

Then I suggest that you are likely to be disappointed. It is very rare in any field to see conversions from mailing lists to sales of more than around 5% and you are aiming for more like 30% conversion repeatedly, using the same group of people for high priced products. Most people will think twice before stumping up £100, particularly if they are coming around frequently.

Ah, but you're forgetting one thing: We're awesome!

I wasn't able to jump into the kickstarter right away because we budget our money a month ahead. Of course, since i now know kickstarter wonderment will be coming, i will try to set aside some money proactively.

I am also hesitant about the streaming and for the same reasons listed above.

Candy: maybe a podcast, only available through the kickstarter? Or a video, something like a walkthrough of the wofati or updates on projects. I'm trying to think of something that doesn't cost you a lot, and doesn't take a lot of your time.

Michael Cox wrote: have you looked into commission based systems for getting others to promote and sell the DVD's once they have been produced?

Yes. I currently have threads at vimeo asking for affiliate stuff. Perhaps you can pop in and add emphasis?

Right now it is inappropriate for me to drop the price. I need to respect the people that supported the kickstarter. But I am willing to give a huge affiliate fee. Vimeo currently doesn't support that.

As for the physical DVDs - they are currently at amazon (as are the cards), so you can get an affiliate fee - but I cannot make it bigger or smaller.

Commissions as high as 60% or so are really attractive

All of my stuff at scubbly offers a 40% commission.

With 15,000 people on my daily-ish email, I very much like the idea of doing a kickstarter and seeing 4000 supporters in the first few days.

Then I suggest that you are likely to be disappointed. It is very rare in any field to see conversions from mailing lists to sales of more than around 5% and you are aiming for more like 30% conversion repeatedly, using the same group of people for high priced products.

I like to think that this list is made of people that really like what I do. As opposed to other lists that have people that had to forfeit their email address to get something.

If you are expecting/hoping people will support these kickstarters out of a sense of altruism for the greater good then I suspect you will end up disappointed.

I think 0.3% might be about altruism. I think 99.7% will be because the product is something they want.

Kickstarter is unlikely to be appropriate for every project you want to fund - it isn't the swiss army knife of funding. If your product isn't going to be broadly applicable consider another route (simple paypal donations? sponsorship? grants? profit from other projects?)

I think the cool thing about doing DVDs on kickstarter is that it gives people the opportunity to get their name in the final product. I think there is something cool/fun about doing that. I think that is a HUGE piece of candy for people.

Plus, with my brother's welding DVD: I think it might appeal to homesteaders more than permies, but I think there will be a lot fewer people that will support it. There is that important question: will we get enough sales to even fool with editing it?

I'm not experienced with Vimeo, previously I've looked at clickbank for affiliate products which gives you loads of control over things like commissions and prices. Is vimeo where the streaming video is delivered from?

It does seem like a strange handicap for them not to have a robust affiliate system if so.

Michael Cox wrote:I'd suggest a total rewrite of this page, with optimisation for increased mailing list signups and a progression through selling the DVD's would give good returns on time spent.

That was started several months ago. Adrien has been swamped lately.

I guess the point here is that you can do a lot better with the material you already have without the need to pressure those who are already on your mailing list.

I like to think I am not pressuring the people on my list. But I do think that I've come up a bit short on putting out the right candy to the list. Maybe I need to come up with some sort of $10 reward. Or a $3 reward. Or even a $1 reward. Getting the support of 2000 people at $1 each strikes me as a really cool thing.

And I think that a lot of this is just that: what is cool/fun/neat ... Having a hundred names under "these people paid actual money to see their name here" is cool. Putting out a 3-DVD set riddled with names of the people that supported the kickstarter is fun. Having some huge number of supporters (even if it is just $1) is fun.

Evidence of large mobs of people standing behind permaculture sends the message that permaculture is a thing to be reckoned with. So it would be cool to see 5000 supporters. But it seems to get that, we should come up with some freaky cheap rewards.

Candy: maybe a podcast, only available through the kickstarter? Or a video, something like a walkthrough of the wofati or updates on projects. I'm trying to think of something that doesn't cost you a lot, and doesn't take a lot of your time.

Hmmmm ....

Maybe Bart could put together a 20 minute video and we make it available to all of the supporters. Even those that put in a dollar. ??

paul wheaton wrote:
Maybe Bart could put together a 20 minute video and we make it available to all of the supporters. Even those that put in a dollar. ??

This would be made available only to people that supported the kickstarter (I like this very much). And we can say it is 15 minutes long, but if we raise $40,000 we will make it 20 minutes long. At $50,000 we will make it 25 minutes long ....

??

Michael Cox wrote:I'm not experienced with Vimeo, previously I've looked at clickbank for affiliate products which gives you loads of control over things like commissions and prices. Is vimeo where the streaming video is delivered from?

It does seem like a strange handicap for them not to have a robust affiliate system if so.

Vimeo is where I am currently hosting the streaming version of the rmh videos. There are upsides and downsides. I have been to several other hosts to try to figure out a solution, but ... they all have upsides and downsides. Several of them have sample videos that play very poorly on my rather good internet connection.

I have several threads of suggestion open at vimeo and I get the impression that vimeo doesn't find much value in my suggestions.

I think a low price point($5-10) "I participated!" type of reward is a good idea. Not all of your Kickstarters are going to appeal to everyone, and it seems like you understand that pretty well. To be honest, this one didn't appeal to me overly much when you first posted it, since it seems to be the sort of thing that requires a pretty decent amount of land, which I do not currently have. I pledged more to support the cause that anything else.

Another cool reward might be doing a video tour of the lab and showing the current works in progress. I'd like to see that. How about getting Kristie to take a nice photo of something you want to see as a reward? How about a short "how to operate an excavator without killing yourself or destroying anything" instructional video?

Most of the Kickstarter type things I've supported have been for books or games, and the ones with rewards and stretch goals that I liked the most were the ones where everyone benefitted, so I'd like to see more rewards/stretch goals along the lines of additional content for everyone, not just swag or ego stroking for me.

Rich;)

Maybe the thing to do is to say that we will put up a free video for everybody that contributed. And if we hit 2000 supporters we will make the video free to the world. ??

paul wheaton wrote:Maybe the thing to do is to say that we will put up a free video for everybody that contributed. And if we hit 2000 supporters we will make the video free to the world. ??

Maybe this will be a micro documentary about hugelkultur? Using lots of stuff out of the third DVD plus fancy animations?

So, the idea of an extra video is interesting for sure, and that is already the idea with the stretch goal of 30 000 and 40 000. Now several thing to keep in mind :

- We need content - if the video is a short version re-edit of the DVDs themselves (for example the hugelkultur topic), i see what people that don't by the DVDs interest is, but could be disappointing for those who bought the 3 DVDs just for the hugelkultur part, especially if it is then put for free for anybody to see. But totally doable of course.
- If it's not Hugelkultur, then what ? Is this something we already have the content (like the mason bee micro doc) or is it something we need to invest time and money to produce ?
- Even if it doesn't cost much to edit (cause you have a freaky cheap editor that don't charge per hour !!! AHAH !) it will take some time to produce. So depending on the complexity of what is expected, that will slow down the over all process for the other DVDs.

So several questions to help you pinpoint what you gonna be proposing. Please make sure to run it by me before you post it on KS, just want to be sure that the process will be smooth !

(P.S : i propose to shoot some backstage video, like unformal interviews, during Permaculture voices between you and Geoff or Joel .... ? just an idea, i think people would get excited to see that ! )

For videos what you could offer is a video version of the podcast talking about the workshop, like podcast 256 review of earthworks workshop. It would not have to be the full podcast but could include clips of what you are describing in the podcast with the audio over top, it could include some of the prepodcast discussion in it.

Why not offer to donate a DVD to a public library system if enough people from that district donate to you kickstarter. What if 20 people from Multanomah County donated $10 each? Then all the bazillion "permies" and everyone else, in Portland could check out your DVD if they wanted to, and you would at least get $200 from all the unemployed, el-cheapo library lovers like me, who would normally give zero. I would be happy to contribute in a small way, more within my means, that would make your DVDs available to more and more people. Another option is a first-come first serve early bird option for low-incomers to buy the book/DVD/whatever at a really reduced rate, to reward those who jump on the bandwagon fast. Like the first 100 qualifying po' folks get the DVD/Book/Gizmo for like 40% off. I actually did that, sight unseen, for Eric Toensmeier's forthcoming book, because the discount was so good. Also why not offer enrollment in future courses at the lab or elsewhere as rewards? I really like the idea of a great reward that you could get for a dollar or two....like the 15 minute trailer of the dvd, or the 20 minute tour of the lab or the 5 page ebook explaining the most fundamental concepts, but without all the fancy stuff in the DVD. Who could resist?

I'm with some of the other comments here, the whole streaming things isn't so good here (in Australia). I nearly did the upgrade to the $150, option, as I thought that would be a fantastic way to see the RMH vids, but when I realised it was streaming, I had to pull out. I'd prefer a direct download option but appreciate there's a risk (probably quite high) that it might find its way onto youtube and aired for free...

There is a risk if you offer too many kickstarter type projects a year though there will be burn out. But then again I have no idea how many people you have on your mailing list!

William Anderson wrote:I'd prefer a direct download option but appreciate there's a risk (probably quite high) that it might find its way onto youtube and aired for free...

It would be just as easy if some one had the DVD to send it to youtube, the thing is youtube is good at complying with take down notices.

WOW, you've got some really creative people in your corner, Paul.

Low-end Candy: I really like the idea of somehow making this info free to the world (perhaps after a respectable delay). There are subjects that don't interest or apply directly to me. BUT, if I believe in them, I would still pay a couple bucks to see them go viral. E.G. Earthworks is beyond my scope (but I'd still chip in $5 to improve the world); Hugelkultur is perfect for my scale (I have no trouble justifying $50-$100+ for a DVD set).

I think you mentioned the concept of setting a goal i.e. if we reach $10,000 - we'll release it to the world in 6 months. I'd be afraid that once the goal is reached, philanthropy may wain. How about subsequent goals i.e. $15K = 5 months, $20K = 4 months, etc. Maybe it's not the dollar total, but just the pure number of visionary folks.

Hi-end Candy: I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet ... or if it's even possible, but how about joint marketing or cross branding. For example: When you do the wofati KS, a higher-end investement might include your set of DVDs & candy PLUS Mike Oehler's DVD. FYI I've read both his books (twice) but had to draw the $line at his DVD's. Recently I read one of your posts that praised Oehler's DVDs very highly. Now I'm wondering whether I should wait for yours or order his. (Again, we have to draw the expense line somewhere.) Perhaps Oehler's DVDs would be a good complement to your wofati DVDs (not too similar or even contradictory?). Or perhaps offering his "Earth Sheltered Solar Greenhouse" would be a better complement to the Kickstarter. Mike (or any other joint marketing partner) would of course have to provide the spiff; the incentive to him is: if they like my DVD's, perhaps they'll buy my books; or if they like my Greenhouse book, perhaps they'll buy my other book and DVDs.

How about a Timber-Framing partner (like Rob Roy) for the wofati KS. He's got a great book on this subject, Timber Framing For the Rest of Us, that should complement the Wofati DVDs very nicely. The incentive for his donation would be an opportunity to sell any one of his many other books, consultations, or a workshops.

Perhaps partnering with a like-minded association. In my area, MOSES (Midwest Organic & Sustainable Education Services) or MREA (Midwest Renewable Energy Association) might be good candidates, but I'm sure there are many more and probably more appropriate marketing partners for the various KS projects that you have planned. These associations might contribute a 1-year membership or a free admission to their next conference. They would benefit by an increased membership / email roster, as well as the potential of renewals or repeat business. And of course the really big WIN/WIN is that they direct folks to your site and Kickstarters, and you direct folks to their site and services.

Ultimate Value: You know what, Paul, I've never been a fan of mugs, t-shirts, caps or any other commercialized paraphernalia. I'm a neophyte when it comes to Permaculture, but it doesn't seem to me to be a very good fit? Maybe more kumbaya purple than practical brown?
Also, getting named as a contributor at the end of a DVD doesn't float my boat either. Sorry. Maybe if I could afford the really big bucks, it might be cool to be an assistant producer ... maybe someday In the mean time:

I was wondering about all those little icons on the left side of a member's posts -- words like steward, volunteer, pollinator ... (OP) and Apple. I was wondering if it would be possible to somehow code into the bio of all permie members an acknowledgement for their contributions, commitments or investments to the causes. Maybe dollar amounts wouldn't be as important as shear number of involvements - thereby serving as a very low-end, highly visible piece of candy. Perhaps attending any of the Permies' workshops would also count toward this recognition icon. Maybe a green clover?

One of the staff at CodeRanch gave me the ability to hand out mass apples. So, for people that support the kickstarter at a certain level, i could put in 10 apples and then feed in a list of email addresses. All of the permies.com accounts with matching email addresses will then get ten apples.

I should have know; an original thought in a fertile field is rare.

Still . . . how high would that "certain level" have to be to earn just one apple? Could this be a way of pulling in a large number of those 15,000 members? Perhaps it would be too much of a logistical challenge - linking the KS database to the CodeRancher's Permies database. I hadn't made that connection.

Aha, for those who want to post on the cider press but can't because they don't have enough apples, they could buy apples instead of writing quality posts. Like buying indulgences!

Apples can be taken away for posts that are seriously not quality. This would solve problems but may make the indulgence buyer pretty mad.

I do think we could end up with kickstarter fatigue, but maybe alternative funding designs/websites could break it up a little.

I LOVE the "pester your local library" idea. Social media could help with this. Create a Facebook event to ask the library to buy the dvd set, then invite everyone in the area who might be interested.