My plumber just earned £2280/hour... not sure whether to be pleased or not

I've got a slightly temperamental drain from our kitchen sink. Every year or so the pipes clog but not in the u-bend, further down. I've dismantled the trap many times, messed around with a plunger, bought one of those flexible snake things - no joy.

Today I caved and had a "drain engineer" call by. £190 call out charge... steep but I was impatient and had no time to shop around for quotes. Came home from work early and waited for him. From the time he arrived at the door until he left was less than 5 minutes.

He unscrewed the u-bend, then screwed a flexible hose to the pipe fitting. Lay down on the floor and blew hard into the pipe - I heard the blockage *pop* free. 2 minutes to close the pipes back up again and confirm that the water was draining well, before he went on his way.

I'm simultaneously impressed, infuriated, and looking to buy a suitable flexible hose for next time.

I'm reminded of the story where Henry Ford once balked at paying $10,000 to General Electric for work done troubleshooting a generator, and asked for an itemized bill. The engineer who performed the work, Charles Steinmetz, sent this: "Making chalk mark on generator, $1. Knowing where to make mark, $9,999."

Also, travelling time, costs, being willing to blow your pipe, etc...

Michael Cox wrote:I've got a slightly temperamental drain from our kitchen sink. Every year or so the pipes clog but not in the u-bend, further down. I've dismantled the trap many times, messed around with a plunger, bought one of those flexible snake things - no joy.

Today I caved and had a "drain engineer" call by. £190 call out charge... steep but I was impatient and had no time to shop around for quotes. Came home from work early and waited for him. From the time he arrived at the door until he left was less than 5 minutes.

He unscrewed the u-bend, then screwed a flexible hose to the pipe fitting. Lay down on the floor and blew hard into the pipe - I heard the blockage *pop* free. 2 minutes to close the pipes back up again and confirm that the water was draining well, before he went on his way.

I'm simultaneously impressed, infuriated, and looking to buy a suitable flexible hose for next time.

There was once an old machinist who was cut loose to increase profits. Then the company had issues with their biggest most profitable system. The company tried everything and hired numerous people who all failed to get the system working again all the while they were loosing millions. Finally they decided to call the old machinist and see if he had any thoughts. He agreed to come see. Quoted a crazy high price to fix the system but also noted if he failed there would be no charge at all. They didn't want to pay his price so he left. A week or so later they had exhausted all possible options and called him back. He was now busy so turned them down they came back and said they would pay his price and he said the price was now X4 more because he'd have to pull off another job. But that if he failed there would still be no charge so they told him to go ahead. He went in with a drilling hammer tapped once in a specific spot and the machine roared to life. It took all of 15 seconds. Then he handed them a very large bill something like $1 to hit xxx $1,000,000 for knowing where and what to hit and how hard to hit it. You're paying for a lifetime of knowledge the most valuable resource there is according to many! They paid the bill and rehired him as a outside consultant...

We've got a spot in our drain that clogs.  It's an old house and is about 48 feet from the kitchen sink.

A snake is awesome!  Especially if it's only a few feet down.

Prevention is even more awesome.  When it's just us in the house, we can go 4 to 6 years between clogs.  Whenever we have people staying, we have to clean it out weekly.

Things that work for us
- no solids down the drain
- no grease down the drain
- as little detergent as possible (this is also sticky in the drain as it grabs hold of sticky things)
- don't do tiny loads of dishes after every meal.  
- wait for dishes to reach a critical mass and then wash them with as much water as possible so the big mass of water goes down the drain all at once, flushing away the start of each new clog.

When we have guests, they believe that "water saving measures" means use as little water to dirty dishes as possible and wash as we go along.  They can't grasp that they aren't helping by washing dishes after each mean and either think I'm too stupid to know how to wash dishes or lying. And then when it clogs on day three of their stay, a lecture on how to not-clog drains gushes from their mouth - and then they get angry at me for calling them out on the inapproaptrate behaviour of them not listening to me.  But unfortunately, it just increases the unwanted beahviour as they see it now as a challenge to get the dishes done to prove me wrong about the drain, thus clogging the drain more... (sorry, issues).

Anyway, every drain is different.  The list is a few things to try to see if you can find the prevention that works for you.

One thing to think about is, if the plumbing is old, using a snake to pull out the clog is better than pushing it further along where a snake can't reach.  

My father-in-law once got called out to investigate why a brand new magnetic, er, something-or-other wasn't working.

He drove for four hours, walked into the room it was installed in, took one look, declared that it works better if you plug it in, plugged it in, and drove another four hours to get home.

I dread to think what that hourly rate was if you only included the minute he actually spent doing something useful.

r ranson wrote:
A snake is awesome!  Especially if it's only a few feet down.

We are big on prevention in this house - all scraps go to the chickens, no grease down the sink, always have a mesh over the drain etc... but i think there is some kind of design fault/obstruction further down the pipes that is just prone to settling stuff out and building a clog.

The snake hasn't worked for me on this. I'm not sure why - it gets so far and then just stops. I can't pull anything back and can't make progress. I suspect there are some tight bends it gets jammed on.

This trick of blowing to clear the clog was brilliant though.

I used to be service plumber, and learned the hard way that a 5 min 150$ toilet unclog did not make the customer happy, but closing the door, unclogging the toilet and then spending 15 minutes making noise did make the customer happy.
A little murmured cursing didn't hurt either.

I used the "show" time to test the toilet with big wads of toilet paper.
This was a test to see if there was anything still lodged in the trap or drain.

I've never used an air powered clog buster, much less a lung powered one, but there are water powered drain cleaning bladder:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61kjh7AVo8L.jpg

I have some I inherited but I don't use those either.
My plumbing trainer thought the pressure they put on drains was asking for trouble.
Instead I use a "tub gun" for almost every clog.
While I was working for Roto Rooter  I scavenged the parts off of 3 tub guns that had been thrown away to build one working unit.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZa02O2gws0uYaf5uhtLaugAryuJRdDcKdeU_Jo6kqJvBjalMn59J09qoH2DXai69i0oQp_CNfdjjRyIWiF8bhu9zaQ_OrP_eaWIvPSadP0i6CH1-n7Q8a

Having this tool has saved me, my friends and my family members thousands of dollars.

That was a terrible job,but the experience has paid dividends.


For your particular drain I would suggest using a shop vac.
A shop vac can sometimes suck a clog out, but it can also be used to blow.
If you don't have one, the models that fit on top of a bucket are ideal for dealing with filthy water.
Even then, don't fill it.
Sloshing water out of a full bucket onto the floor is an accident, when the liquid in question is black or grey water, it becomes an incident.

William Bronson wrote: I used to be service plumber, and learned the hard way that a 5 min 150$ toilet unclog did not make the customer happy, but closing the door, unclogging the toilet and then spending 15 minutes making noise did make the customer happy.
A little murmured cursing didn't hurt either.

We don't murmur our cursing here in Boston.
A couple years ago, after some difficulty with some 25 year old thermostats, I installed new smart thermostats in my employer's house. It was the beginning of the heating season, all seemed to be okay, then trouble... since one thermostat was behind a door it couldn't sense any motion and wrongly decided that no one was home. We figured that out (can't remember the details now) and it was back to working. But, then the next weekend rolls around, the temperature outside had dropped, and the house kept getting colder. I get a call on Saturday afternoon, about how the last two nights were cold and colder and how today the house was down in the 50's! I get told a story that the heating company had just been to do a yearly maintenance, and they said "oh yeah, those smart thermostats are a real hassle, we don't recommend them." She apologized for it being Saturday but "You need to come out to put the OLD thermostats BACK IN!!"

An hour drive with a stop at the workshop to retrieve the old parts, tools, and get to the house. Dig right in, un-installing, stripping wires, re-installing... all three thermostats... another hour. Switch the power back on, test... wait... and no heat. Try the other zones, wait... no heat. I go down into the crawlspace, to see if I can learn anything. I switch on the light, at the bottom of the steps and looking directly at the air-handler from 8 feet away... Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME!? There's circuit breakers built into the unit, and one of them is OFF because the side panel was put back crooked, and pushing against the switch!! FUUUCCCK!!! In a crawlspace, in a closed house, on a secluded property, no one can hear you scream.
I can't even turn it back on. I have to go back to my truck for the right tools. I take some pictures first, then reinstall the panel correctly, and wouldn't you know, those "extra screws" on the floor, actually fit into some empty holes that line up now... *Click* the breaker back ON, and there was heat again!
Three hours and change, at this point. Sent "as safe for work as possible" message about the situation, and "yes, you have heat.", before packing up, locking up and driving an hour back home.

Kenneth, I am feeling this.
It's just you and a problem that MUST be fixed, in the middle of the night.
No way out but through.
The hard won wisdom is what makes the 5 min jobs happen.

Hard won is right! Whether it's learning on-the-fly how to D.I.Y. a repair, or handing money over to get shown why the professionals make the big bucks.

Whenever I get the chance to "supervise" a contractor, at work or at home, I'm there to learn.
I want to ask questions: why does it do/not do that? what to do to fix it? how do I prevent this?
I want to see inside stuff, how it comes apart and goes back together. I want to see some neato tools too.
I want to hear their questions and understand why they want to know.
I want to know what he/she sees and what they are looking for. Where did they look? Where did they go first?

That last one.
The pros are not there to guess, they're there to know, and they are going check off the list right from the top: is there power/fuel/oil/water/light bulb/battery/whatever... that this thing needs, before I chase what you think is wrong with it ?

With a clogged up sink I do this - it works but I'm not sure if it's "good" so feel free to comment:

Pour some baking soda in/on the drain.
Follow up with boiling water.

One time out of ten that doesn't work, then it's pulling out all of the stops by doing the upgraded version:

Pour some baking soda in/on the drain.
Follow up with vinegar.
Wait a bit.
Flush with boiling water.

Nina Surya wrote:With a clogged up sink I do this - it works but I'm not sure if it's "good" so feel free to comment:

Pour some baking soda in/on the drain.
Follow up with boiling water.

One time out of ten that doesn't work, then it's pulling out all of the stops by doing the upgraded version:

Pour some baking soda in/on the drain.
Follow up with vinegar.
Wait a bit.
Flush with boiling water.

Tried these multiple times. Didn't work sadly.

Yep, every drain is unique.

We lived in the house for nearly 10 years, clearing the drain manually at least once a week.  Plumbers said it was a rough part of tne cast iron pipe and we would have to dif up the house foundation to dix it.  So we just kept going as snaking a drain was better than the alternative.

Then someone moved out, and suddenly the drain didn't clog.  Who knew being lazy and letting the dishes build up would be the solution for our drain?  The plumbers said never do that.

This one sounds like air can help.  They sell something innthe shops here that looks like a can of compressed air and a plunger had a baby. Put the plunger end on top of the drain and press down really well.  It shoots air into the drain and bingo, no more clog.  Good for ones just past the bend.  

I wonder if there is a more affordable version one can make at home.  It sounds like it would do the job but without taking the pipe apart or risk getting bad air in the lungs with a hose.

I don't know how much that is in US Dollars though I would say if the plumbers fixed the problem that amount might have been well spent.

r ranson wrote:
This one sounds like air can help.  They sell something innthe shops here that looks like a can of compressed air and a plunger had a baby. Put the plunger end on top of the drain and press down really well.  It shoots air into the drain and bingo, no more clog.  Good for ones just past the bend.  

I wonder if there is a more affordable version one can make at home.  It sounds like it would do the job but without taking the pipe apart or risk getting bad air in the lungs with a hose.

Affordable could mean NOT a consumable, single-purpose thingy, but something more expensive like a small air compressor, which has many other uses from filling tires, airbrush, air powered tools, evacuating irrigation lines... Maybe get the drain-air-plunger thingy ONCE, first to see if it works, and then to use its parts create an accessory for your air compressor.

I've had decent luck using the plastic "zipper" clog tools (looks like a giant zip-tie with barbs all along its length) mainly in the bathtub and bathroom sink, which are mainly hair clogs. They are much more flexible, in my opinion, than the metal spring style drain snakes, and much more convenient to keep at hand in the vanity cabinet.

Of course an ounce of prevention is worth £190 of cure. (Sorry, Michael.) And it's been much more convenient for us to have an effective strainer over the bathtub drain than unclogging the drain a few times a year.