riding mowers loose in the neighborhood!!!

It's that time of year again!
Riding mowers take over the neighbor hood and can't stop mowing.

We have not figured out how to keep them off of all of our land since we moved to town.
Most is fenced and that solved most of the issue.

Outside the fence we let it get a little long and bag it for the garden and sometimes let it get  pasture tall and scythe for the garden...all ok'd by the city whos right of way it is.
The 4' fence manages to keep out riding mowers but outside the fence there's always someone new in the neighborhood who thinks they are doing us a favor by  scalping that nasty green stuff.

The upside is that when we go out and ask them to stop they then have to listen to our long list of reasons why we do it our way....and it works with that person until someone else new shows up.

I think it's partly because we are 'older' and these young out of shape riders can't imagine someone wanting to walk behind a mower or use hand tools.

anyway it just happened again...lunch interrupted by the helicopter sound of a mower cutting up to our fence....he might have learned some new words...not 'those' words...we were very polite and talked about organics, and permaculture and mulch and soil building and our electric mower and scything...local inputs, etc.

was feeling kinda grumpy...better now...thus the edit.
(and I took out the other emoji R.)

my thread for no mow sign ideas...
https://permies.com/t/249204/Positive-don-mow-signage-Burma#2314862

This is an interesting problem to have, people mowing something that isn't theirs in the first place.

I can't remember everything in that former thread so I am going to suggest some hedges and maybe a tree or two.

signs might have been suggested in the other thread though I bet that did not work ...

Hi Judith,

I feel your frustration. Once somebody removed part of my tree trunks that were piled up for building a hugel. The snow stopped them. I asked around and explained my intentions with the wood. Nobody returned the wood, but nobody removed the rest either. My situation is rather specific, and I think somebody intended to "help" us clean up the "mess"

What strikes me every time when somebody "helps" me in a way that I'm absolutely aphauled by, how little these people know about my ways. They don't disagree, they just never even heard of it. They are absolutely flabbergasted that I don't think butterflies are scarry, and I allow them to sit on my shoulder for as long as they want. No need to kill them for me. Same with bees, froggs etc. When we are talking plants it gets even worse: general rule of thumb on trees seems to be: if you don't know what it is, cut it down. They even  "helped" some old people this way. Once confronted with the emotions of the elderly couple when they came home and were not happy with his surprise, he walked around deeply ashamed for months. He felt really bad.

So, back to your problem. We permies, who are kind and helpfull as well, are not the right group of people to turn to. We would never help you by mowing over your wild area, certainly not without asking first. What you should do, is ask your neighbourly helpers, what would have stopped them doing this act of kindness for you. What do they need. What will keep them from helping you out? Maybe somebody is so kind to help you with advice from a viewpoint that you and me don't posses.

Hi Judith ,

Something else comes to mind: Are you kind to your neighbours. I bet you are! Are you generously sharing your produce?
Could it be that people are simply trying to pay back your kindness and generousity?
Think of another way they can help you. Ask them for it. Kindness needs balance. Maybe if they are allowed to lift something heavy for you, or whatever they are good at, they dont't feel the need to help with your lawn anymore?!

Nynke Muller wrote:... Nobody returned the wood, but nobody removed the rest either...

Along with the mention of snow, I wonder if someone used it for firewood and couldn't "return" it?

Figuring out motivations is hard and many people don't even know their own reasoning, let alone someone else's. It's just "how it's done".

Judith Browning wrote:

my thread for no mow sign ideas...
https://permies.com/t/249204/Positive-don-mow-signage-Burma#2314862

It's in a dailyish in the queue to go out in just a few days. Hopefully that will get some more creative eyes on the sign side of things.

Personally, the "Burma" examples that appealed to me, involved poetry with fun rhymes.

There seems to be a lot of online videos showcasing vigilante lawnmowing 'heroes'.
They usually show some very unkempt lawn in a dilapidated state and then sped-up film of them mowing it and edging and such.
Then there is usually a clip of the homeowner crying tears of gratitude and hugging the vigilante.
The vigilante is just doing it out of the goodness of their heart; they don't want payment - but they do want attention it seems.

Not that your neighbors are making videos like that, but it is a trend out there on the interwebs that might be inspiring people to think they are helping when they're not.  
Some others I've met have an obsession with making things look like a golf course and can't imagine letting a dandelion grow, let alone have tall grass!  Those ones likely won't be reformed, but who knows.

I like that you are able to have conversations and share knowledge with some of your 'volunteer landscapers'.
You might cause them to consider things they never would have dreamed of.  

Jay Angler wrote: ...I wonder if someone used it for firewood and couldn't "return" it?...

That is exactly what I think Jay. I hope it kept them warm all winter.

I choose to think that they did not intend to steal from me, but that they intended to help me and help themselves at the same time. If they really thought stealing was ok, they would have taken the rest as well when the snow was gone. There was plenty of opportunity, but they did not. When I am really in a good mood, I even think that multiple poor people took it and distributed among the needy, like a real Robin Hood - action.

George Ingles wrote:There seems to be a lot of online videos showcasing vigilante lawnmowing 'heroes'.
They usually show some very unkempt lawn in a dilapidated state and then sped-up film of them mowing it and edging and such.
Then there is usually a clip of the homeowner crying tears of gratitude and hugging the vigilante.
The vigilante is just doing it out of the goodness of their heart; they don't want payment - but they do want attention it seems.
....

That is it Judith! You have to make a lawnmower vigilante video, in which such a vigilante shows when to stop mowing to protect the bees. It needs to be funny or dangerous or ridiculous or ... to go viral!
You have to ask your helpful lawnmowing neighbours to help you making it. They get their attention, and you have the opportunity to send some permies seed into the world.

Fellow permies, help Judith create a scenario for a lawnmower vigilante video with the potential to go viral. Permies have humor right?

Now I am going to google for lawnmower vigilante video, because I have never heard of such a thing.

I mow my abutting place and for free and without acknowledgement. The last two places I lived were next churches so I mowed their lawn for them and plowed snow from the driveway.

Here my other neighbor is 87 years old and while she has family, they are busy lobstering so I will mow it for her. I have a zero turn mower so it’s not a big deal.

Most places it’s appreciated, kind of like being “zuchanied” in the summer. It’s where you go into a store and come back out and a neighbor had an abundance of veggies and thought you might want so.

Steve Zoma,
I gladly give my neighbors things from the garden and in one instance Steve and I hooked up our hoses and kept our neighbor's house fire from a complete burn while the volunteer fire department had to stand around until the electric company came and turned off the power.
There are many things to do unasked.
We did yardwork for a housebound friend here in town and the choices were hers even though we might have looked at things differently.
I would never do any sort of yard maintenance for someone else without asking.  
The 'just trying to help' mowers have mowed down young trees, an area we were planning to scythe, blooming clovers for the bees and roses...and they mow so short and raise clouds of dust!

Once our immediate neighbors understood there was no problem and as I've said we have the city's blessing to do as we like on the verge.
It is not even shaggy...just not scalped.

The issue comes up again when we have new neighbors or someone mowing for someone else who once again thinks they are ' helping'.

I would never assume....why is it so hard to ask first?
It is not a help unless someone wants the work done.
I know many would be happy to have someone mow for them.

There will be a time when we need help so have been making plantings and paths and things more clear....likely it will be our son and grandson doing the job though and they are both aware of our landscape.

George and Nynke,
Thank you for lightening my mood😊
I don't watch youtube anymore so have missed those videos.

I think part of the problem is that we put up a fence, a really nice friendly board fence to keep dogs (and lawnmowers) out of our yard.....it worked!
Now, though, it might appear that outside the fence is fair game?

My mother used to complain about people with a "lawn fetish" who wanted to tell her how to keep her yard or occasionally do it for her.

Maybe the moral of the story is that consent is more important than what we perceive as kind.  Because one person's kindness is another person's no-no.

I once made the mistake of leaving my MIL alone in my house for a couple of hours while I had an appointment.  I came home to find her doing my laundry.  No no no no no.  Because of my schizoaffective disorder I'm paranoid about laundry and it needs to be done in the right way or else I'll need to do it again right.  She thought she was helping, but in reality she was creating problems for my husband and I, because she didn't get consent first.

Consent is key.

It might indeed be those lawnmower videos, people have discovered that if they do "nice" things and film it those videos get a lot of views and they feel good about themselves for helping others.  But they don't realize that not everyone is them.  Not everyone needs what they perceive is needed.  And that's okay.  But the internet would have us believe that everyone will be thrilled with non-consentual lawn mowing, or whatever people are doing without permission to other people or their property.  They don't film the times when someone says something like "I know you intended to help, but this is actually not what we do here and now I have to fix what you did.  I'm not angry at you because your intent was kind, but I'm very very frustrated at this situation, please please please please please don't do this again and ask first before deciding something for someone about what they need".

I'm a certified mental health peer support specialist and one of the things we must do in our work is to always help folks do what _they feel they need, not what others think they need, to the best of our abilities.  Meeting people where they're at and understanding that their path is their own.

Steve Zoma wrote:I mow my abutting place and for free and without acknowledgement. ...
Most places it’s appreciated...

Hi Steve,
You are confirming that this is all about kindness and contributing to the community. Without any doubt, you are a nice guy with good intentions. I definitely acknowledge your kindness, and I am happy that your kindness is mostly appreciated. Please keep up the good work.

I think you are the guy to talk to when it comes to Judith's issue. So I respectfully would like ask you a few questions, because you might hold the key to solving her issue.
- Do you understand why Judith wants to keep the grass longer, and maybe grow weeds in there?
- Do you understand Judith's feelings and her pain after each kind mowing action of a helpfull neighbour?
- What do you think of Riona's statement: "Consent is key"
- What do you think a person like Judith should do, to stop a kind and helpfull person like you, without hurting their feelings.

Hi Judith,

I had hopes that Steve Zoma would react. He seemes a nice guy.

I have watched one lawn mower vigilante video. That was enough. It was a news item. The topic was a company that was instructed by the municipality (is that the correct term?) to mow their grass. They did not get to it, so somebody eldse did, without asking etc, like in your situation. I thought this guy, probably meaning well, was very happy with himself, completely unaware of other peoples opinion and was not interested either. He wanted his town to look nice and he warned people that he was coming. I hope this was a little extreem, and most vigilantes are just trying to be nice.

Judith Browning wrote:
I think part of the problem is that we put up a fence, a really nice friendly board fence to keep dogs (and lawnmowers) out of our yard.....it worked!
Now, though, it might appear that outside the fence is fair game?

I just can't get over your issue. I have no map of the situation and I don't know the size of your neighborhood etc. There must be a way to stop nice people from doing harm. A fence stops them. You explaining stops them, but that is rather late. It is a mix of kind intentions, easy to do and ignorance. So, it should be made less easy to do, maybe you can make a simple fence that can be opened easily, but you have to step out of the vehicle. That might be enough effort to stop them. The other thing that comes to mind: if your neighborhood is not too large, you can be your own kind selve and welcome new neighbors. In a short conversation you can bring up the kindness of your neighbors and tell what is appreciated and what is not. That way everybody could avoid unpleasant occurances and nobody has to feel bad about what started as kindness.

As an alternative, you can call a journalist and have him or her make a newsitem about your long grass an everybody being so kind to want to mow it for you.

I hope you find a way.

thank you for such thoughtful posts Nynke!

It is such a weird dilema.

To better describe, we have almost an acre here and it is fenced all around for the past several years.
When we first moved here 10 years ago, the closest neighbor across the street thought he could keep mowing here as he had been while the house was empty....that was the biggest challenge, feelings hurt and was the main reason for the fence (and also fencing out dogs of course).

The front fence is 12' back from the middle of the street...that is the city's verge that they are happy to let us maintain as we like as long as no trees grow there to interfere with the underground water pipes.

The back of the property borders a branch to a creek so no neighbors there and it is fenced..

One side is alley although it is a dead end...our neighbor on that side parks a vehicle in the alley and the city has right of way to a sewer line that runs along the alley.
Our fence on that edge sits back 6' from our actual border but there is shrubbery along the border  and I'm adding more to make it more secure....that mowing was only a problem when someone came and mowed for her to help her out...and did not communicate to her before hand.

the last edge is also a dead end city alley way ending at the branch although since there are no utilities under the back half we mow that, sometimes with a bagger and sometimes let it grow tall and scythe.
We are able to keep a rope across the part we mow but even that has not been enough sometimes.

I think what's at odds here with what I think of as obsessive mowing is that some like to see the grass short all at once so mow as fast as possible as short as possible to meet that criteria...also, some, not all, see that green stuff as the enemy and not a source of garden fertilizer.

I suppose it's good for me to have to work through this to try to understand a bigger picture...I sometimes wonder what would happen if I walked into someones yard and began planting garlic? or sowed flowers? or maybe planted some trees and shrubs that might satisfy my sense of aesthetics?

We are getting better at meeting each situation as it happens though and maybe changing some views along the way.

these situations are so unique. I know once I had a friend who was blessed by someone who came and mowed her lawn when the town was going to fine her (she had two disabled toddlers and no time to shower, forget about anything else). It was life-changing generosity. But it was clearly a need that was there, and not someone guessing at a potential need.
where I live those videos of yard makeovers are a big thing, but you also have to have permission to set foot in the yard or you're likely to get hurt (and you'd be legally at fault) so consent is definitely required.

That said, my nextdoor neighbor was lawn happy for a while. I let my grass get way high, while he literally was cutting his grass every few days. He started creeping over into my yard, farther and farther every time. We don't get along great with this neighbor (we used to have to call the cops on them for noise and street parties all the time, it's gotten better but we have a nodding acquaintance and that's about it), and I didn't want conflict.
My mailbox is on our property line, built into the fence that separates the inside yard from the outside yard (sort of like a median strip, it's mine but the public can access it, any fruit growing there is fair game, etc). The mailman was walking on the grass so I decided to make a concrete path for him that just happpened to lie on the property line. Possibly the most antisocial resolution ever, but it worked and I got to avoid drama (shortly after, he paved over his front outside yard, and that was that).

It seems to me that the new neighbors need educating. This could be a sign (sigh, again? Maybe something along the lines of "please don't mow! I'd love to meet you and tell you why!") or maybe even some neighbor ally who understands what you're up to and can help the new folks understand. In the meantime, it sounds frustrating, though.

Judith Browning wrote:
...I sometimes wonder what would happen if I walked into someones yard and began planting garlic? or sowed flowers? or maybe planted some trees and shrubs that might satisfy my sense of aesthetics?...

Oh Judith,
I would love that! (I am not always as kind as I am here).

I could certainly do that. Preferably when the people are in the yard, so that they can stop me before I really have to execute it. And than explain with a smile why I am doing that. Now that I think of it, I once planted a chair in someones garden and just sat on it reading a book, to make a point (something else than this topic). No need to explain anything. After being flabbergasted at first, they got my point and felt ashamed and after a while they even appologised. The harm was done, but after the appology, I choose to let it go. I do pick my battles.

You do have to judge the situation carrefully. If you can keep it light and humorous, do it, if it will make things worse, maybe you better let it go. Nobody should get hurt over this.
If you think it is risky, you can tell them with a big smile what you plan was...