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thomas rubino

master rocket scientist

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Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A

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posted 3 weeks ago

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Ever wonder what the inside of your Subaru motor looks like?
Following up from my thread "That funny rattle" https://permies.com/t/371523/funny-rattle-noise.
For years now, when I needed a Subaru motor, I purchased a Japanese "take-out" motor.
Due to stringent pollution standards, cars are taken out of service around 50,000 miles, and their engines and transmissions are sold to countries with less stringent standards.
And most of those engines arrive right here in the USA... it doesn't say much about our concern for environmental damage.

My own personal favorite years are the "second generation" Outbacks built from 2000 to 2004.
With a little care, I consider them to be bulletproof, the best of the best!
Seeing as that was 22 years ago, these take-out engines have been rising in price and becoming harder to locate.
Due to their design, using a split case to hold the crankshaft and pistons.
Normal machine shops can not reliably bore cylinders or crankshaft journals to rebuild these engines.
There is a small shop in Medical Lake, WA, just outside Spokane, that specializes in rebuilding only Subaru and Toyota engines.
Specialty equipment is used to properly hold these blocks to get a perfect alignment between case halves.
I was able to purchase a rebuilt "short block" (no cylinder heads) for a few hundred less than a take out motor would have cost me.

The following is a picture heavy documentation of the internal parts and pieces that make up a 2003 2.5 Subaru engine.

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Scott Weinberg

Posts: 413

Location: North East Iowa, USA

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posted 3 weeks ago

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While we can get "what appears to be high quality service" on our aircraft motors we do so at such a ridiculous cost, that it is hard to believe. I bring this up as we have flat 4's and 6's. with 1950 technology in mfg and research involved. Volumes of info on these on how to rebuild, but not so much on how to incorporate new NON EXisting parts.

So crazy that often we hear and see rebuild cost of $35-45K per engine.

Granted the volume of Subie engines is far beyond any aircraft engine catergory, but still.

Enjoyed your engine breakdown photos Tom, looks like your well on your way for a good to go car again.

Scott

https://permies.com/t/241976/Batch-Rocket-single-bell-build

Anne Miller

steward

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Location: USDA Zone 8a

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posted 3 weeks ago

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How much does that engine weigh?

That is a beautiful piece of equipment ...

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

thomas rubino

master rocket scientist

Posts: 7106

Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A

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posted 3 weeks ago

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What you see in the final photo is called a long block, and it weighs apx #200

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Matt Todd

Rocket Scientist

Posts: 595

Location: Northwest Missouri

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posted 3 weeks ago

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Welcome to the second engine Subaru club! Guess we have that in common too. Our 2003 Forester is on engine #2. Much cheaper than buying a whole new car these days.

I don't own the plants, they own me.

thomas rubino

master rocket scientist

Posts: 7106

Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A

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posted 3 weeks ago

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Good choice, Matt!
From 2005 on, they are not the same 400,000-mile car.
Repair whatever goes out next (rear wheel bearings) and keep that car for another twenty years.
Do you try to do your own repairs?
Know how to change the timing belt at home yet?

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Matt Todd

Rocket Scientist

Posts: 595

Location: Northwest Missouri

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posted 3 weeks ago

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thomas rubino wrote:
Do you try to do your own repairs?
Know how to change the timing belt at home yet?

I used to do most repairs. Then I had a bad experience replacing a half axle. New one just WOULD NOT quite fit. Turns out I'd pulled it apart inside the rubber boot. But that took so long to figure out I got a bit jaded and now I pick and choose the suspension repairs I want to fool with!

The new mystery is a popping noise deep down inside whenever there is a momentum shift. Possibly a motor mount. I can't find it, my wife is tired of hearing it, and it's going to the shop soon.

Also can't figure out why the gas gauge is stuck at 3/4. I tested the sending units at the wire harnesses on top of the two sides of the tank and they seem to be working (they change resistance when rocking the car back and forth.) So it might be the cluster itself.

I don't own the plants, they own me.

thomas rubino

master rocket scientist

Posts: 7106

Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A

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posted 3 weeks ago

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Today I finished assembling the front of the motor, set it in the car, and bolted it to the transmission.
Care must be taken in starting and running a newly rebuilt engine.
A special high-zinc 30-weight oil is used for the first 500 miles.
Care must be taken not to overrev the new motor; rpm must be monitored and varied while driving.
A conventional motor oil (not synthetic) is then used for the next 2500 miles.
Finally, after 3000 miles, a 10-30 full synthetic oil may be used.
Your new rings should have seated in their cylinders, and there should be no oil consumption.

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For all your Montana Masonry Heater parts (also known as) Rocket Mass heater parts.
Visit me at
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thomas rubino

master rocket scientist

Posts: 7106

Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A

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posted 2 weeks ago

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Yesterday, I started up the new motor.
It gave me no problems, and it sounds great!
Currently, it has a whopping 13 miles on it. We will be taking it 65 miles each way to Sandpoint, ID, later today.
Break in procedure is specific. From start-up through the first 100 miles, Rpms are kept below 3500, and the throttle is opened no more than 1/4.
During those 100 miles, the engine should be accelerated and then allowed to slow by compression.
This helps the piston rings to properly seat on the cylinder walls.
After you pass the 100-mile mark, engine rpms can be increased to 4500, and the throttle can be opened up halfway.
Upon reaching the 500-mile mark, the 30-weight break in oil and filter are changed for a non-synthetic 10-30 oil.
At this time, all throttle and RPM restrictions are removed.
3000 miles later, the oil and filter can now be switched to a full synthetic oil.
Regular oil changes at 3000 miles will keep this new motor running for the next 400,000 miles!

For all your Montana Masonry Heater parts (also known as) Rocket Mass heater parts.
Visit me at
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John F Dean

master steward

Posts: 8589

Location: southern Illinois, USA

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posted 2 weeks ago

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Hi Thomas,

I am fanatic at breaking in new engines. I change oil at 50 miles and 500 miles. Then I go to whatever the manufacturer suggests. Although I can’t argue with your results, I am curious as to changing full synthetic oil every 3000 miles. Can you fill me on the reasoning?

I learn from the mistakes of others who take my advice.

thomas rubino

master rocket scientist

Posts: 7106

Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A

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posted 2 weeks ago

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Just old school, I guess, John.
They say these new oils are so great and their new cars are built so super duper that you can go 7000- even 10,000 miles between oil changes!
Wow! Isn't that wonderful news!
And gee, after about 6-7 years, that awesome new car is worn out, and you simply must go get a new one!
Wow, that's not such good news...
Hmmm, I think I smell a rat here.
I prefer my cars to go 400,000 miles, and changing oil and air filters is a huge part of that.
I shoot for 3,000-mile changes, but sometimes it's closer to 4,000.

Oil used to be a dollar a quart; now it is five to ten dollars a quart.
Air filters used to be eight dollars and now run twenty plus.
New cars run 30,000 and way up.
Buying oil and filters suddenly is not so expensive after all.

Like I said, just an old school fuddy duddy stuck in the past... (and I like it here, just fine!)

For all your Montana Masonry Heater parts (also known as) Rocket Mass heater parts.
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John F Dean

master steward

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Location: southern Illinois, USA

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posted 2 weeks ago

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Good point. I think one or maybe of all of my BMWs recommended a10,000 mile change. I think I changed mine at 5000. This led to a ruptured relationship between me and BMW. Fantastic car. I found the service departments to be less so. I traveled a great deal back then and didn’t always do the work myself. They couldn’t get through their heads that I wanted an oil change .. I wasn’t debating if I had to pay for it.

My break in strategy came from a Tom McCahill article out of Popular Science in the late 60s. It seemed reasonable to me to get whatever metal burrs and pieces out of a new engine asap.

I learn from the mistakes of others who take my advice.

Rico Loma

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posted 2 weeks ago

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Thanks for great details, this brings me back to my first car loan in '80. Bought a '78 Subaru with low miles, on an eye watering 20% bank loan. That was a normal rate, but my midnight to 8am job was sufficient. And folks gnash their teeth about 7 percent these days?

One caveat on oil changes that leaves me a wee bit skeptical: synthetic 10k miles or one year, whichever comes first. Yes, viscosity is degraded somewhat by time, but it's hard to buy old school oil anymore so.....
I make my own tiny stickers on the window after my driveway oil changes, just to be sure of timing. Your opinion?

Rico Loma

pollinator

Posts: 582

posted 2 weeks ago

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Thomas
I had to buy paint, milk, bacon, and a new file today,,,,,, of course I stopped by the Mart of Wal.
Had a walk down the aisle with motor oil, and no full synthetic oil was over 26 bucks per 5 quart container.

Are some folks really paying 10 per quart?? Jesus wept...

John C Daley

pollinator

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posted 2 weeks ago

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I am told that there about 5 or 6 types of oil for cars today.
OLD mineral style is needed for older engines and modern engines with finer tolerances need specific oil types.
I have muddled them up and wrecked engines, so I am just drawing peoples attention to the issue.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

thomas rubino

master rocket scientist

Posts: 7106

Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A

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posted 2 weeks ago

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I'm using the break-in oil for the first 500 miles (at 422 miles, at the moment)
Then I will switch out to Valvoline 10- 30 conventional oil for the next 2500 miles
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GEIAA0C
Finally, I will switch to a full synthetic 10 -30 Valvoline
https://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-Advanced-Synthetic-10W-30-Motor/dp/B00GSIXI9S/ref=sr_1_5?s=automotive&sr=1-5

Plenty of oil available at $5 -7 a quart, but plenty that is quite a bit more.

For all your Montana Masonry Heater parts (also known as) Rocket Mass heater parts.
Visit me at
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Rico Loma

pollinator

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posted 2 weeks ago

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My plea to all car owners is simple, always buy in bulk. The 5 quart size is best, and is currently less than $6 per quart for Quaker State, Pennzoil, Castrol, Mobil 1, and Valvoline to name a few.

Nancy Reading

steward and tree herder

Posts: 13318

Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year

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posted 2 weeks ago

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Rico Loma wrote:One caveat on oil changes that leaves me a wee bit skeptical: synthetic 10k miles or one year, whichever comes first. Yes, viscosity is degraded somewhat by time, but it's hard to buy old school oil anymore so.....
I make my own tiny stickers on the window after my driveway oil changes, just to be sure of timing. Your opinion?

I think that's what my hubby does if possible. Lower mileage often means shorter journeys which are harder on the engine. Most of our engines are older, and I'm not sure he uses synthetic oils. Some engines are more notorious for needing more frequent oil changes. If I ever get my Range Rover back on the road that V8 cooks it's oil, so 3000 miles or one year on that I should think.

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My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

Rico Loma

pollinator

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posted 1 week ago

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Nancy, I am green with envy, a Range Rover, a lovely UK gem. Hope it's back to you soon.

Thomas, yes the best oil for you is affordable and highly rated, about 5.40$ per quart. But could I ask about that mandatory " x miles or one year" we hear from every brand? Your opinion? I do live on a dirt road with no county or state maintenance, but my oil changes are normal.....never blackened but actually off color amber.
So I might go a full 10k miles this time, chaged oil 600 miles back, to understand this degradation fully (7 yr old Honda fit , 40k miles, now getting 46mpg city/ highway)
Any other opinions welcome, thanks y'all.

thomas rubino

master rocket scientist

Posts: 7106

Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A

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posted 1 week ago

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Today, I hit the 500-mile mark on the new short block.
I drained it into a clean pan to visually check it, no chunks visible... always a good thing.
Some sparkles like fine gold in the bottom of the drain pan; they could easily be zinc particles from the break in oil.
She now has a new filter and a conventional 10-30 Valvoline motor oil for the next 2500 miles.
So far, she purrs like a kitten and has no leaks or drips.

For all your Montana Masonry Heater parts (also known as) Rocket Mass heater parts.
Visit me at
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John Weiland

pollinator

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Location: RRV of da Nort, USA

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posted 1 week ago

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thomas rubino wrote:

Like I said, just an old school fuddy duddy stuck in the past... (and I like it here, just fine!)

At the risk of waxing sacrilegious, Thomas, I think you had the thread on switching your solar from lead-acid to LiFePO4 batteries. In light of this thread, and noting recently the decent if potentially premature reviews on the Subaru EVs, are these tantalizing to you in any way? Wife and I are still firmly embedded in petrol vehicles (except for golf cart and 4X4 Polaris Ranger), but in retirement, I toy with the idea of having an EV perhaps just once before Mr. Scythe makes his entrance. Most of what is offered in the US is either too expensive or too....'urban'...too low to the ground for our living situation. Then Subadoo comes along with EVs sporting same ground clearance as their standard Outback/Forrester petro models....and having drivetrains brainstormed by both Sub and Toyota and now I'm intrigued. Cost is not nothing, but not nearly so bad as EV trucks available to us today. My sister swears by her older Subaru that she went and had the engine rebuild done at 150K miles and is still purring. Winter use up here in northern Minnesota also is a factor, but I've been convinced enough by local EV users and testimonials out of Canada that I'm being a worry-wort. Wouldn't it be nice to try something that might 'refill' from your solar panels.....and require neither synthetic nor traditional engine oil? :-) Also, curious if John Daley might comment from Australia as they are far more along with EV automobile adoption than us and may have had the Subaru EV models a bit longer in the market.

“The most important decision we make is whether we believe we live in a friendly or hostile universe.”― Albert Einstein

thomas rubino

master rocket scientist

Posts: 7106

Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A

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posted 1 week ago

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I would dearly love to charge our car from the panels.
Most older EVs had limited range, making them worthless around here.
These new ones with a 280-mile range would fit the bill perfectly!
The $40,000 price tag when new makes them a pipe dream, but in a few years, those prices will moderate.
Have to see how their battery holds up, as that is the catch with purchasing a used one.
What I really would like to own before I move on... is a George Jetson car, a basic model, no need for it to fold into a suitcase...

For all your Montana Masonry Heater parts (also known as) Rocket Mass heater parts.
Visit me at
dragontechrmh.com Once you go brick you will never go back!

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