New rocket mass heater kickstarter

Eivind Bjoerkavaag wrote:Paul Wheaton you are such a tease... I believe I speak for all of us when I say it is long overdue, we're waiting to splash money in your direction to help you get momentum. Just get it out already!

I have already received a lot of excellent suggestions for tweaks. I'm glad that I'm waiting a bit. Maybe we'll go live this afternoon or tomorrow morning.

If you want to simplify the rewards, combine the "download" and "streaming" rewards into a single "download and streaming" reward, with streaming, and DVD and 1080p versions for downloading.

That would make it very easy for people to choose physical or digital version of the set of videos they want.

I personally would want HD downloads, which isn't offered.

It all looks totally awesome, but you have 2 $60 pledges.

Edward Sanderson wrote:It all looks totally awesome, but you have 2 $60 pledges.

Yeah. That happens sometimes. I hope it doesn't cause any problems. The kickstarter software deals with it just fine. I've supported other kickstarters that do this and it seemed to be okay.

Looks good to me Paul. Nicely done. Looking forward to the release. Will be building a RMH in my home as we build to that point, including one in my garage, that we may offer a class in North Georgia to learn more about. Hoping to be the Permies.com of the Southeast and promote you guys. Best regards. R.

Dan Ellis wrote:
It's hard for me to formulate a reason not to edit out language that competes with the objectives of the project.

Wheaton Labs/Ernie, Erica, and all those making the RMH DVD's:
I have to agree that language is a barrier you cannot overcome by fearlessly moving forward and dropping more of it in peoples laps. While I appreciate your passion, and occasionally your colorful nature, it detracts immeasurably when making videos meant for a broad audience. It affects what I buy, and support...


~ Dean Howard ~ Something a future ex-wife might call me!

I have a background in marketing going back to 1996. Beginning with Web development, I moved into video production back in 2003.

Some random ideas that come to mind:

Contact Elon Musk (Tesla Motors) and provide a presentation of the technology.

IMO there should be an even stronger focus on reasons to buy/build one. I liked the stats on fuel cost savings. Two days ago, I couldn't tell you what a rocket mass heater was. There are other designs floating around You Tube etc. One guy started building his out of cinder block! People commented on his You Tube video saying the cinder block wouldn't withstand the heat. Others thought his design was great. You need to attract the interest of people who are unaware of this technology. You should consider doing a man/woman on the street interview and include that in the video. Ask people what they think of the new rocket mass heater technology. You'll most likely get blank looks from 99% of the folks you interview.

I think I speak for most people in saying, I wouldn't want to waste my time building an inferior product that will fail within an unacceptably short period of time. I happened upon your design after sifting through a lot of stuff people shouldn't be wasting their time building. In your videos, you should point out the inferior designs without bashing.

Show stats on exhaust emissions, compared to other heating technologies or perhaps just the top of the line wood burning stoves.

I read mention of a design leader who has tested a design that gets up to 4,000 degrees! This raises questions in my mind, would it be of any advantage to burn this hot? If so, does it consume more fuel/wood? If there are a variety of core designs, there must be an established core design that has chamber shape, size, length, diameter, ratios, etc., that are superior related to heat and wood consumption.

Marketing tip... People are visual. Open Google Earth and go to Mexico. Mexico has a street view and when you look at the home construction, a great deal of it looks makeshift like something that was just slapped together. Not much consideration of aesthetics. The core design with the 55 gallon drum is simply not attractive to most people. A pet store for instance doesn't market their live animals with images of their skeletons. When a home is marketed for instance, the finished home is shown. Of course you need to show the core design of the rocket mass heater but this should be presented as the "car chassis" without the body or the home in the stud and sheathing phase. In other words show the design possibilities and how attractive they can be made to look inside a home.

The possible uses for this heater design are huge. For instance, I'm going to build one for an 8 x 20 green house, I'm putting in my backyard. Earth tubes are going in and I'm considering the possibility of using the "heated bench" feature of the rocket mass stove as a base for my Tilapia tank to offset water heating costs. I'm in Alpharetta, Georgia where the cold season lasts about 4 1/2 months. Even here, the cost of natural gas heating in the winter months is ridiculous and offensive to say the least. Reducing outgoing money of course, is equivalent to a pay raise.

The heating cost comparison, rocket mass heater vs natural gas is huge and should hold a little longer. You could perhaps show a couple holding their winter natural gas bill of $280 feeling ripped off. You could have fun with that in the video. Off the top of my head, you could do a, Let's Make a Deal spin-off. Behind door number one is the natural gas heater, behind door number two is the electric heater and behind door number three is the rocket mass heater. For the rocket mass heater show a really deluxe, attractive version that has a warming bench, cooktop and water heater. Show an estimated yearly fuel cost sign for each and have the contestants select one of the three. The person who chooses the natural gas unit gets the buzzer and a free year of psychiatric evaluation.

Just some thoughts,
Chuck McIntyre

This Kickstarter has the look and feel of a well-oiled machine. If editors can settle on a PG version, I'm all in. You, and a host of experts, have done amazing work over the past few years that I was not aware of and this looks like a great way of bringing it all together and doing your Documentary Magic. I honestly believe, when done properly, this can go a long way bolster the Permaculture image. Best wishes.

Hi Paul -

Proofreading output:

1. Under bios for Emily and Tony:

nomadic "homsteaders" should be "homesteaders."

2. Under Bart's bio:

"build" open-source sb "builds"

3. Under Bryce's bio:
(Here I am, getting all personal...)

Did Bryce ditch living with his wife?

Or did Bryce and his wife ditch societal living??

4. Formidable Vegetable Sound System bio:

'ecological ecoswing' busting sb 'ecological ecoswing,' busting

Oh, and you and the crew all ROCK!!! In a Rockety Mass Heater sort of way!

PIE-ishly Yours,
Mariamne

Mariamne, just when I was beginning to think that all these eyeballs caught every last little glitch! All changes made!

Hi Paul, ok I'm a fan of kickstarters and I thank you for asking what we think. I have some doubts on one point: 40 dollars for the download and 50 for the streaming? I would switch it, I think a download is a bit more relevant as a prize. I mean someone can download and share maybe with friends, they have the dvd's on a hardisk and can swap freely, that gets you less donwloads so at least make people pay more for that. streaming version should be 40 and download 50. I got a bit lost with all the prizes I must admit after a certain point. I don't know if the prize where you give the first RMH dvd's and the new ones at such a low prize is correct. Do yuo have a prize for those that have the first dvd's? is there a way to have people that have the first set to get a less costly prize for the new set? that could be nice even for those that criticize the first set.

Maybe I'm late these are my thoughts. anyway I'll back my emperor

In Barthelemy's bio it says

He is also very active in video/photo production, involved in every steps from scripting, directing to post-production, for broadcast, web or live events.

Change

involved in every steps from

to "involved in every step" ?

One more minor detail in the Formidable Vegetable bio.

experiment in ‘ecological electroswing’ busting out energetic, quirky mashups

I'm thinking add a comma after 'ecological electroswing'.

Lorenzo Costa wrote:40 dollars for the download and 50 for the streaming? I would switch it, I think a download is a bit more relevant as a prize.

There will be something in the faq about that once the kickstarter goes live.

In a nutshell, this is for download (about 600 to 800 megs) vs. HD streaming. HD download would be about 8 gigs. In a previous post in this thread I go into a lot more detail.

I mean someone can download and share maybe with friends

If that happens, I will never offer the downloads again.

I think it is fair to pass around the DVDs, but not the streaming or the downloads. That's just wrong.

Simon Johnson wrote:
Change

involved in every steps from

to "involved in every step" ?

Good catch! Changed!

Another minor thing. The captions under the pictures of the cob style.

The first one says:

Cob style rocket mass heater built in a log home

The second one says:

building a cob style rocket mass heater in a tipi

I suggest sticking with either capitalizing the first word of the caption of not. One of each looks a little sloppy.

*edit* The other captions are all capitalized first word, so maybe go with that. Except for the caption of Olenka sitting on the RMH in the tepee. Needs to be capitalized.

The pebble style caption has a period at the end though. Again I would go with one way or the other; period or no period for all.

paul wheaton wrote:

If that happens, I will never offer the downloads again.

I think it is fair to pass around the DVDs, but not the streaming or the downloads. That's just wrong.

perfectly on the spot with you on this thats why I thought of making the prize for the donwloads a bit higher but if you have tecnichal explanations for this ok. You can't think of stopping every wrong thing that maybe done. You have to continue to offer donwloads even if there is people like this, because for every culprit there's ten people that believe in giving the work we do the right cost.

This kickstarter is a lot more polished than the last RMH one. I've already been beaten to the typo's I had spotted. Good results of having this preview!

Awesome! As far as I can tell, you worked out most of the kinks before I checked it out. Great job. I can't wait!

A few more inconsistencies.

Under the innovators event description it says:

The results were: "the ring of fire" - a rocket mass heater shaped in a circle with glass to show the burn; an outdoor rocket mass heater/cooker/smoker; A "batch box style" rocket mass heater with measured output cleaner than anything we have ever encountered; An indoor rocket stove, griddle and water heater.

Under the about this project description it says:

The trick is to mix modern science with knowledge from hundreds of years ago: Burn the smoke; capture heat from the exhaust; focus on the more efficient forms of heat (radiant and conductive heat are favored over convective heat); and, most of all, use a mass to hold the heat for days.

The use of capitals after the colons and semicolons is inconsistent. I am not sure of the "proper way" to go about this, but I suggest at least being consistent and following the same procedure throughout.

Another thing with downloads vs. streaming: I manage the downloads at scubbly, which is always just dreamy easy. They even have a new feature to make kickstarter support a breeze. So very, very easy. But scubbly doesn't offer streaming at this time.

I currently do the streaming via vimeo. I really don't like to watch videos at vimeo because they seem to be perpetually buffering even though I have a high speed connection. But that seems the be "the place" where people want their HD stuff. Vimeo falls short in a lot of ways for me, but also there is this whole thing about how they manage the private access option I use. You have to add each person one at a time. Yuck. So when the times comes, we might use vimeo or we might use something else.

Another inconsistency.

In the description of the original dvds the first word after the colon is capitalized except for

DVD 5 - Fire Science: this one shows the many interesting ways heat works.

.

This relates to my other post about capitalizing the captions or not. The first word on the captions for the rocket mass heater creators and production crew pictures are not capitalized.

Let me know if I'm getting too picky here, but I have some more little bits.

Under the Tim Barker description it says:

He has previously been farm manager for the Permaculture Research Institute of Australia, power station operator/mechanic, Adventure guide and professional turtle wrestler.

I would remove the capital "A" from adventure guide.

Under Barthelemy's description it says:

He is also very active in video/photo production, involved in every step from scripting, directing to post-production, for broadcast, web or live events.

I might change it to: He is also very active in video/photo production, involved in every step from scripting AND directing to post-production for broadcast, web or live events.

At the end you say:

These DVDs and all of my kickstarters are borne from the community interactions at permies.com combined with the mighty power of the daily-ish email.

Have you meant to use the word "borne" in that sense or should this be the word "born"?

Borne is to be transported or transmitted by. Born is to be brought into life/existence.

Excellent work on the kickstarter project! Looks polished to me. I am excited to back it when launched as I have been wanting more information on RMH's for some time.
Keep up the good work!
Ryan

I like the video and the site. Any way we can see the stuff you talk about in the new podcast? I see it as part of the innovators portion. If not, I will be satisfied if it is part of another kickstarter.

I'm in for the new CDs to support the empire.

Bottom line is I would not attempt to make my own kitchen cabinets so I am darn sure never going to attempt to build something that contains fire in my living room. I may attempt one in a barn or tent or something. Even though I am a new homesteader, I am on the low end of the DYI scale. My latest achievements have been replacing a fiberglass skylight roofing material section of my barn roof that blew off in a storm and making a wood crib out of old pallets and roofing material. A personal milestone for sure, but I have a long way to go on the DYI scale. A man has to know his limitations...

If / When I am able to make one inside a primary living space I am going to either hire Erica and Ernie to do it OR I am going to get Erica and Ernie plans and find a competent local craftsman who can do it.

Therefore I will (as I have in the past) purchase the CDs for the following reasons, in order of importance to me:

1. To support the empire.
2. To support rocket mass innovation.
3. To learn more about the topic.

I will apply what I learn as much as I can. For example I now make the half of a stop sign back stop out of bricks when making a "camp fire" outside on the property just like Ernie and Erica demonstrate in the Fire Science video. Side note; when I am in charge of the kids and their friends and cousins (ages 4 to 10) AND I have outside work to do I give them all the tools and fuel they need to make a fire and let them do it. A simple fire will occupy them for HOURS while I get work done. It keeps them in eye sight and ear shot the whole time I am working. Its a hard to pick what its the most enjoyable about that; watching the kids have fun and learn responsibility or having the city Moms poop kittens when they come to get their kids and see them dancing around the fire like wild indians. But again; stacking bricks = DYI level 1...

I am pretty much on for $60 - $100 a year on any effort Paul makes no matter what it is. Paul's work in the world of Permaculture is righteous and should be supported. I am admittedly all in and drinking the kool aid so I am not sure what Paul can do to appeal to a broader audience. Frankly I am not sure the "broader audience" is ready for the Permaculture message. As long as the current paradigm can keep producing America Idol, the Superbowl, and cheap big ag wheat and corn based food products MOST people are just not going to be receptive to Permaculture lifestyle changes. I think Mr. and Mrs. Middle America will have to be a whole lot more scared and poor to look at permaculture more seriously. Maybe (just maybe, just one mans opinion) resources are better spent preaching to the choir then appealing to the masses at this stage. Or just keeping expenses lower knowing I am buying for the above reasons.

I have now submitted the kickstarter for review. It could be several days until (if) it is approved.

The video looks great and I think it will be a huge hit.

However, I would recommend you give people paying extra, the option of having their name being placed under either "these people paid actual money to see their name here" or under "these people believe in Permaculture and want to support its progress" or "these people believe in sustainable solutions and want to support their progress" or something like that. Now, I get that the first option is akin to Paul's sense of humour, but it also suggests that the only reason people will pay extra is for the vanity of seeing their name in print and this will consequently turn off some potential upgrades. Giving both options or only acknowledging that people want to support these types of projects will likely get you more of that lovely extra upgrade cashmoola.

Christopher Baber wrote:The difference between download and streaming is not clear. I would normally expect downloadable content to be worth more than streaming only content, but in this case it's reversed. I see above that's because the download is a much, much lower quality than the HD streaming option.

Perhaps you should just offer streaming & downloading as one option, with different qualities being available to download. Sort of like YouTube offers different quality; but downloadable. FWIW, there are lots of ways/tools to download/keep streaming content already, so streaming = downloadable to me, and I prefer the highest quality possible. I can convert to lower quality to put on a phone or tablet myself, so having the highest quality archived is ideal for me.

100% agree on this.
I am still a little confused on this - are the streaming videos able to be saved offline?
This will make a BIG difference to me, and I'm sure others - I do not pay for content that I cannot save offline for viewing later, since we are rural and our internet connection is not always reliable Also I like to watch stuff when I am away on a work trip, and I either have no internet, or my bandwidth is monitored very closely.

I certainly don't understand the complexities of setting up the different rewards of downloadable and HD streaming, so excuse my ignorance but does it matter? Would anyone purchase both? Would it not simplify things so that you purchase 'electronic access' to the videos and then either watch them in HD, or save them for later?
At the very least if the video is not able to be saved offline for viewing later that needs to be very very obvious or you will have some very very unhappy people.

Keen for the launch so I can get myself a version that I can save on my laptop for viewing at my convenience
Keep up the great work!!!

Paul,
Maybe there is a way to have a $10 downloadable .pdf drawing after the fact. This may be a very interesting video, but if it's not actionable it basically 'permie porn'. I don't mean that to be offensive, I want to get to the stage where I would have the knowledge and confidence to install a batch burn RMH in my new house. Having said all that I will support the kickstarter anyway because its a step in the right direction, I always gleam something useful, and it supports the empire - I just challenge you to go further. Thanks for your lead on this.
Patrick

Awesome! Can't wait to send you my money!!!

Admittedly I didn't have time to read the entire thread and couldn't find the rewards on my blackberry's version of the page. I'm looking as a buyer of the original and wondering if this really adds enough for the money. Based on the last one, I have high hopes. Thanks again for the great work and efforts.

I would heartily back this and anything you want Paul!

Got approved. Now uploading video to youtube. Probably gonna hit the start button in about 30 minutes.

It begins! https://permies.com/t/44266/rocket-stoves/rocket-mass-heater-kickstarter-started

Great Stuff-- I'm in.

I note the implied goals of enticing "soccer moms" and other suburbanites toward adoption-- the included cost savings comparison with natural gas for example. But I'm wondering since very few have shown a clear pathway toward navigating logistics of building codes, redesign/reuse issues of existing (forced air, electric baseboard, etc) heating systems will this actually be appealing to those NOT ALREADY pursuing (homestead) new construction? I understand enticing those who already use wood/pellet stoves for heat, but the implied natural gas substitution seems quite a jump.

I've heard a podcast with Erica describing new construction compliance issues in the Pacific Northwestern states, but until that process is neatly delineated in a way that invites exploring one's own local legal landscape I doubt many will get past the "wow" stage even after they literally warm up to the idea of an oil drum in the room. I would suggest maybe a future DVD: "Here's how to make it happen in YOUR home..." (nut just for tipis in the woods)

In any case I realize this tech is new and I eagerly await the DVDs which I will lend to friends at every chance.

Very nice. I'm in