Growing Cotton in The Great White North - Yes, it is possible to grow cotton in Canada!

Oxidation or bleaching in the sun ?

r ranson wrote:I know I'm monologuing, but I hope you don't mind.  I just find this project so interesting.  

One thing I noticed about my cotton harvests is the colour is nowhere near as intense as it should be.  My greens are coming out creamy, my whites, brilliant, and my browns as tans.  I wonder what I can do to increase the colour?  Maybe something is missing from the soil?

When I was weaving with Sally Fox's organic color grown cotton yarns I remember hearing that the colors would darken in time, and some, especially the 'rusts' appeared to after weaving and washing, etc.  According to this article below, there is a big change in color from boll to yarn.

The color of the fiber changes as it goes from harvest to finished product. In my photo, you can see a boll each of brown and green cotton and the yarn that resulted from each color. Once cotton has been spun, it must be boiled to set the twist. At that time, the color deepens. What is on the spindle in the photo is green cotton. You can see how much darker the finished yarn is.

 https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/grow-spin-cotton

I'm looking forward to the cotton colour getting darker with washing.  I've read that adding a touch of washing soda or other alkali substance to the wash water will help intensify the colour.  Maybe one day I'll try boiling it, but right now my cotton is heading directly from the wheel to the loom.

Most of the seed I got came with a bit of fluff.  Here are some comparison photos of the green and the brown.  Neither fibre has been finished.





The cloth for the background is made with a handspun weft (half the yarn is handspun) - some from what I grew, mostly commercially prepared fibre.  

With the green, the fibre around the seed is really green, but the fluffy stuff I use for spinning is off-white.  Losing that much colour in one generation, could I suppose, be genetic variation.  But to happen for several different kinds of cotton from different sources?  I think there's something in my environment that's changing the colour.  But hopefully, it will get stronger when the cloth is finished.  

I was wondering about cross pollination possibilities.  Everything in books I've read so far says it's a selfer with a low chance of cross-pollinating (about the same as tomatoes).  But I hear about laws against growing coloured cotton in some places because it could contaminate commercial crops.  

this is interesting

At the time, I didn’t realize the distance that was needed between varieties so they wouldn’t cross and I had them separated by only 100 feet. The isolation distance recommended for home use is 650’ and for commercial production a half mile or more. I was only growing it for fun and concentrating on learning to spin, so at first I didn’t notice just how much mixing was going on in the garden when I planted back the seeds I saved from one harvest to the next. Once I took notice, I realized that my original colors that you see in the name tag I wove from my early cotton would be lost if I didn’t pay attention.

Most of my colour problem is from the first generation after commercial seed.  I haven't compared the second generation yet because they all look off white now.  

What is interesting is I'm growing mixed varieties in a tiny greenhouse with lots of pollinators.  This means I have a much higher chance of mixing genetics than I had hoped.  This is great because a landrace would be a great path to find/create cotton that will thrive here.  I've already shown it can survive to reproduce, now we discover if I can make the plant thrive!  

The plan next year is to make one greenhouse purely naked seed brown varieties (the seeds are incredibly easy to remove from the cotton compared to the fuzzy seed ones).  The other greenhouse a mix of seeds I've saved with over half being naked seed.  

r ranson wrote:I was wondering about cross pollination possibilities.  

Studies that I've read measured cross pollination rates in cotton at around 1% to 13% for adjacent plants, and estimated that a 30 foot isolation distance was sufficient to maintain purity.

So yup. Seems like there is plenty of potential for landrace cotton. Especially if the naturally occurring crosses happen to have hybrid vigor and out-perform their self-pollinating peers.

Thanks Joseph, that's good to know.

Reading back through this thread, it seems I've come across a lot of contradictory information on how cotton procreates.  We have some sources saying the pollination happens before the flower opens.  Others say half mile isolation.

I think I need to just stop reading about it and start dissecting flowers.  Which means I might need to increase the amount I grow this year so I can really play around with it.  

With all the side trips to look at other websites, it took me a couple of hours to read through this short thread!  I plan to try growing cotton once we are moved to Kentucky (don't think it would work very well here in the high desert).  

Does the fiber from the 'naked seed' cotton differ much from the fiber from 'fuzzy seed' cotton?

Kathleen

Here's a video about growing cotton outside the cotton belt.  Not quite Canada, but he has worse weather than we do, so I think there is some neat ideas here.

Bryant RedHawk wrote:I think you are to far north for a cotton crop.  Since I live in cotton country I will describe the season here in the South.  Planting of cotton occurs from the end of May through the middle of June. The crop flowers in July, bolls are set and they don't open until September, the crop comes off the fields starting at the end of September through October.  The bolls are sharp when the cotton is ready to pick, many a hand has been shredded by the act of hand picking cotton. To separate the seeds from the cotton you need a gin which can be purchased as a hand powered unit or electric motor type, from there you have cotton fiber and lint covered seeds.  (a gin is pretty much a lot of circular saw blades rotating in opposite directions, the blades look like a plywood blade (lots of teeth). A linter (the machine that gets the last bits of cotton off the seeds is the same as the gin but with the blades nearly touching) these things have been known to eat arms of the operator in the old cotton mills.  

If you are determined to grow cotton that far north, you will need a dedicated green house or two, you will most likely also need heaters for those buildings. Glass would be the glazing of choice for the cotton to grow well and you will need a bee hive for pollination  of the plants flowers.

This link should be pretty helpful to you in this adventure  how to grow cotton

If you are able to harvest cotton in early October when it is planted in May in the cotton belt, I might be able to grow early maturing day-neutral cotton where I live in Dayton, Ohio. The last spring frost usually hits no later than the first week of may here and the first Fall frost usually arrives by the second week of October. This gives me on average a 160 day frost-free growing season, but just to be safe, I would try starting the plants indoors in early April until daytime temperatures are above 70°F.

I have nevertheless found it difficult to find early-maturing, day-neutral, cotton seeds available in Ohio. This variety below looks like the most promising variety to grow where I live, but it is currently out of stock until December. It takes only ten days more to mature than many winter squash varieties:
http://www.southernexposure.com/red-foliated-white-cotton-1620-seeds-p-880.html

I haven't seen it yet, but someone suggested this video about growing and processing cotton



(I don't know if she has English subtitles up yet, but her other videos are amazing!)

Where can I buy cold tolerant cotton seed?  in Canada.

joan

j stein wrote:Where can I buy cold tolerant cotton seed?  in Canada.

joan

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/704127930/the-great-canadian-cotton-growing

Is there more to growing cotton than only the temperature (frost date)?
I never heard of cotton growing here in Western Europe. Maybe it's too wet? Or the soil isn't right?
Or maybe they never thought of it because the European countries all had colonies where they grew cotton ...

The biggest problem growing it so far north is the days are too long.  Cotton seems to be quite hardy with moisture and temperature variation, but it needs shorter days to be able to set the bolls.  

I'm thinking of trying it with some morning shade next year.  So it gets the sun at the heat of the day, but not so much light.

r ranson wrote:The biggest problem growing it so far north is the days are too long.  Cotton seems to be quite hardy with moisture and temperature variation, but it needs shorter days to be able to set the bolls.  

I'm thinking of trying it with some morning shade next year.  So it gets the sun at the heat of the day, but not so much light.

I wonder if this issue can be solved if there are day-neutral varieties of cotton. Corn and bean varieties from lower latitudes in Mexico tend to be photoperiod sensitive while corn and bean varieties from temperate latitudes in North America are more likely to be day-neutral. If there are day-neutral varieties of cotton available to home growers, then they may be more likely to set bolls during   long days than photoperiod sensitive cotton varieties.

Growing cotton too, in the Netherlands


Taking apart of a cotton seedpod (which was fallen from a branch sold for decoration)


The seeds are in the lower right


In a pot with soil, after a few days of good watering, they are starting to sprout


Next day


Next day
Yes, they are growing very fast!

To be continued

r ranson wrote:The biggest problem growing it so far north is the days are too long.  Cotton seems to be quite hardy with moisture and temperature variation, but it needs shorter days to be able to set the bolls.  

Does it flower with longer days and just not produce the bolls? Or does it refuse to flower at all?

(I'm hoping to run some experiments involving short-day plants. I might add cotton to the list.)

It flowers, but the bolls don't set.

Hi there!  I’m curious about how long you waited before cutting the bolls  and bringing them in to dry. It looks like you’re bringing them in when they’re still green. We’re about to get wet weather and I’m worried about the bolls rotting on the plant. Was thinking about cutting them and hanging them to dry inside. Do you think it will work? Bolls are mature and firm but don’t crack when squeezed

This is great news!  I have grown Colton from seed in Mexico but I would love to grow some at my home on Pender Island, BC. I spin cotton and would like to grow some in my greenhouse.  Could you tell me what variety you have the best luck with. Thank you, Jill

Jill Ballam wrote:This is great news!  I have grown Colton from seed in Mexico but I would love to grow some at my home on Pender Island, BC. I spin cotton and would like to grow some in my greenhouse.  Could you tell me what variety you have the best luck with. Thank you, Jill

Hi Jill. Just try some, do the experiment! That's what I am doing. I don't know which variety it is, those branches of cotton plants with some fluffy balls on it are sold here for decoration. I took the seeds out of such a ball.

There doesn't seem to be a cotton designed for Canadian conditions or houseplants (yet!) but every cotton variety I've tried so far can grow and flower here with the same amount of love we give to a tender tomato variety.  

I'm hoping to eventually create a landrace of cotton that grows well in my situation by growing multiple types together and then saving seeds from the ones that do best.  

It might be a result of cross breeding.  One of the big GMO crop companies developed a red and blue cotton a few years ago to avoid using aniline dyes to dye the cotton and planted a bunch of up in Missouri.  The neighboring farmers who all had white cotton planted sued because their crops came out pink, baby blue, and in a few cases a weird streaky mix of white and color which rendered their crops unsalable and the seed unusable.  The fields had to be burned.  

Sounds interesting... and Am interested!

Just ordered cotton seeds from Virginia and will get them in 2 weeks.

Are you still growing in 2021? Let me know. We're east, southern Quebec, on the NY State border.

Thanks! Stephane

I am sorry, but my tiny cotton plants all died. Maybe I had to wait until spring before sewing the seeds

Lisa Sampson wrote:It might be a result of cross breeding.  One of the big GMO crop companies developed a red and blue cotton a few years ago to avoid using aniline dyes to dye the cotton and planted a bunch of up in Missouri.  The neighboring farmers who all had white cotton planted sued because their crops came out pink, baby blue, and in a few cases a weird streaky mix of white and color which rendered their crops unsalable and the seed unusable.  The fields had to be burned.  

You got my attention: do you have any more information on this?
I have never heard of colored GM cotton, although I have of many different colored cotton types.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I am sorry, but my tiny cotton plants all died. Maybe I had to wait until spring before sewing the seeds

what symptoms did they have?

r ranson wrote:

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I am sorry, but my tiny cotton plants all died. Maybe I had to wait until spring before sewing the seeds

what symptoms did they have?

They stopped growing, got a yellowish colour and looked dry, but watering didn't help. Of some the base of the stem looked thinner than normal, but not all.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:

r ranson wrote:

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I am sorry, but my tiny cotton plants all died. Maybe I had to wait until spring before sewing the seeds

what symptoms did they have?

They stopped growing, got a yellowish colour and looked dry, but watering didn't help. Of some the base of the stem looked thinner than normal, but not all.

Sadness.
I wish I knew more about cotton to be able to figure out why.

Anyone else recognizes these symptoms?  

Good day

Where do you send your cotton to? Is there a Cotton Ginnery in Canada?

Kind Regards
Stephné

r ranson wrote:

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:

r ranson wrote:

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I am sorry, but my tiny cotton plants all died. Maybe I had to wait until spring before sewing the seeds

what symptoms did they have?

They stopped growing, got a yellowish colour and looked dry, but watering didn't help. Of some the base of the stem looked thinner than normal, but not all.

Sadness.
I wish I knew more about cotton to be able to figure out why.

Anyone else recognizes these symptoms?  

The three plants that I managed to get growing were quite yellow and dry while I had them inside before I was able to move them outside, but once I got them moved outside and into larger growing conditions they did come back and grew quite well, so I'm not sure if they had the same problems, but it did sound a little similar. My plants definitely responded very well to having a little bit more space to grow.

On other fronts, I did manage to grow a few bolls that opened and gave me some usable cotton, however I don't think they were quite mature enough. The seeds have a very low germination rate, and they seem to have trouble getting out of the soil. I've got a few started, when I know for sure that they are going to make it I will take some pictures and try to post them here.

Fingers crossed that I will be able to get a second generation out of them. I'm growing a few other varieties that I purchased from a few different places, so maybe I can get working on trying to breed my own variety of Canada adapted cotton.

Eldon Dore wrote: The three plants that I managed to get growing were quite yellow and dry while I had them inside before I was able to move them outside, but once I got them moved outside and into larger growing conditions they did come back and grew quite well, so I'm not sure if they had the same problems, but it did sound a little similar. My plants definitely responded very well to having a little bit more space to grow.

On other fronts, I did manage to grow a few bolls that opened and gave me some usable cotton, however I don't think they were quite mature enough. The seeds have a very low germination rate, and they seem to have trouble getting out of the soil. I've got a few started, when I know for sure that they are going to make it I will take some pictures and try to post them here.

Fingers crossed that I will be able to get a second generation out of them. I'm growing a few other varieties that I purchased from a few different places, so maybe I can get working on trying to breed my own variety of Canada adapted cotton.

Yes, I think I had to sew them in the spring, so they could move outside as soon as possible.
It was a bit stupid I used up all of my seeds ...

I have tried cotton for a while. It was not a success in cloudy southwestern Michigan. I was visiting a flower producer this fall and he grows cotton for its ornamental display. For him only the bottom branches of the plant produced bolls that would open all the way. He used the variety that was for sale from Baker Creek Heirloom Seed Company. The plants were started indoors and planted out after frost. They were roughly 6 ft. tall when we visited in October.  He was cutting them down as frost had not arrived yet. I got about 5 seeds from those, however it appears they may not be full seeds. I will try to germinate them. What you really need is a ton of short season cotton seeds like some of the stuff that is found wild off the coast of the SE US. You could then get a shorter season version of it in theory.  My first cotton plants flowered when only 6 inches tall. I think I will try to replicate that. For a while there was a ban on cotton seeds and you couldn't get them from the southern U.S. It was based on whether you would spread the boll weevil to other states if you had infested cotton seeds. Not a particularly strong scientific argument for trying to grow cotton in Michigan.

Hi, Feedback on whether I should forget the idea of trying cotton here (indoors even) due to light availability would be appreciated. I live on the pacific northwest coast, a cool temperate rainforest climate, although we do have very hot very dry summers these past few years. Wondering if we have the correct day light length though, for cotton. We are rather north even at the latitude  of near USA border. Thanks for any comments. I think this web page is awesome.

Gisele Carriere wrote:Hi, Feedback on whether I should forget the idea of trying cotton here (indoors even) due to light availability would be appreciated. I live on the pacific northwest coast, a cool temperate rainforest climate, although we do have very hot very dry summers these past few years. Wondering if we have the correct day light length though, for cotton. We are rather north even at the latitude  of near USA border. Thanks for any comments. I think this web page is awesome.

I'm a little left of the left coast of Canada (one of those islands) and I've managed to grow cotton successfully and get a crop.

Historically there are accounts of places further north than us and that have dryer summers than us growing cotton.  But these just little snippets of sentences in history books ".. and their staple crops are....and cotton...."  sometimes the books even mention "...and cotton which they mulched with rocks."

More modern accounts tell us if we can grow tomatoes, we can grow cotton.

So yes, it is possible!

The big problem is finding the genetics that can thrive here.  And finding the techniques to adjust to cotton's needs (like how we start tomatoes inside a month or so before  planting out)