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master steward
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I have some questions for you guys - your chance to help improve the site.  But first the background.

We have a shiny new category called purity

Inside this category we have home care and personal care.

The idea for this came from the challenging forum called "TOXIN-ECTOMY".  Toxic-E is a forum that focuses on getting rid of negative crap.  The challenge with this forum is that it was filled with negative crap.  Quite often, people would post cider press stuff there because they didn't have enough apples to post in the cider press.  So, instead of focusing on getting rid of negative crap, we created purity which skips past the getting rid of negative and jumps right into the good stuff - making the world a better place. 


How do you guys like this new category?


With Toxic-E going away, we need a new bumper sticker.  These are the "i like..." pictures that you can choose in your profile to appear under your name.  The Toxic-E one looks like this.




What do you think would make a good bumper sticker for Purity?



A little while back, we had a request for an ergonomics forum.  There was lots of enthusiasm for it at the time, but the amount of content in there hasn't grown much since. 

How would you feel if we absorbed 'ergonomics' into 'personal care'? Is ergonomics different enough to deserve its own forum?


So, what do you guys think?  Here's your chance to be heard. 
 
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Love 'purity' and I don't mind at all if 'ergonomics' is melded with 'personal care'.....I think I was one of those who pushed for it .  I think personal care might be more straight forward and clear than ergonomics anyway....change to the positive is good!


 
master steward
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My only hesitation about a forum called "Purity" is that people might not intuitively know what to post there. When I saw the word, I thought, "Is this about moral choices and religion? Will I find virginal women in white robes?" Being Christian and raised in that heritage, "purity" first and foremost moral personal choices: refraining from sex, drugs, swearing, etc. I was honesty surprised to see the word used here! I totally understand that there are other meanings to this word, and it does make sense to use in terms of personal care. I do wonder if there are other people who will assume what I initially did, and they might then not know to post or look for personal care in a forum called that?

Maybe something like "Natural Care" or "Sustainable Care" would be more intuitive. Those both sound pretty lame, though.... I need a thesaurus. *Gets one* Maybe something with the word "Wholesome" or just "Pure"? Pure Living? Natural Living? Sustainable Living?

I like the idea of switching from the negative to the positive!
 
r ranson
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Maybe a new description for the purity category to make it more clear?  Any thoughts on what that could be?
 
pollinator
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Hygiene? Industrial hygiene is a thing which would encompass living and working space.
 
garden master
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If the title of the new category remains Purity, and you would like a suggestion for a bumper sticker, I think a lily symbol. If you look up the meanings of first names, mine (and my sister's) means "pure, lily". I know. Stop laughing.

If there were another category, like "Physical and Mental Well-being", I think ergonomics could be a sub category there, along with exercise tips and equipment, meditation, chiropractic benefits, massage benefits, relaxation techniques, yoga postures, healthy lifestyle habits, weight loss, quiting smoking.... Things of this nature seem to have, thus far, fallen into​ the Meaningless Drivel forum. Well, I suppose, all that could fit under Personal Care, too.

Just a thought.
 
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I agree, 'Purity' misses a beat somewhere. Why not 'Positive living' or even Positive thinking'. After all the bottom line on Permies, PAUL's bottom line, is that we DO something instead of getting angry at bad guys. If that isn't Positive thinking, I don't know what is. RC
 
r ranson
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What would you guys think if home care and personal care went back into living?
 
Nicole Alderman
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R Ranson wrote:What would you guys think if home care and personal care went back into living?



That makes a lot of sense to me!
 
Karen Donnachaidh
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Ditto.
 
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I vote for the return also.
 
Judith Browning
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R Ranson wrote:What would you guys think if home care and personal care went back into living?



sounds fine
 
master steward
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I made the choice to move from "living" to "purity".   Well, the choice was a bit more complicated than that.  But "living" wasn't really a fit. 

I really wanted to do a negative-ectomy on toxin-ectomy.   Rather than "remove toxins" I wanted something that was more about the pursuit of the positive.  Clean water, clean air. 

I want a place that talks about using DE for insect problems in the home, as well as a place to talk about eating DE to have stronger nails and thicker hair.    A place to talk about getting rid of stinky cleaners under the sink and using more natural solutions. 

A lot of the stuff that is gone through in that chemerical movie - where at the end of the movie that woman just looks ten times healthier. 


I think descriptions for the category, plus the in the forums in the category could be helpful. 

For home care, I like the idea that the description mentions "permaculture zone 0" and for personal care "permaculture zone 00"



I confess that "toxin-ectomy" is a better fit.  And it has a bit of comedy.   If anything, I would prefer to go back to that rather than "living". 

But first I would like to hear suggestions for a positive word or phrase to replace "toxin-ectomy".







 
paul wheaton
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I just now did a google image search for "purity".  Here is the first image:


(source)



Somehow the word "living" makes me think of a boring gray man standing alone at a bus stop while it is raining.  He has a pulse.  He is going to work.  A flavor of living similar to "existing."    Either that, or some sort of over colored, lipstick heavy advertisement for cooking and home decor that is way outside of my comfort zone.

 
Karen Donnachaidh
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I think Nicole had some great suggestions. I'll add "clean living" and "healthy living" to her list. If not living... Lifestyle?
 
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I rather like "purity"... It cuts right through to the essence of how I think we aught to be living. I used to say that "The first rule of healthy living is don't poison yourself". I have come to really dislike that way of saying it, because it is negative. I'd rather say, "The first rule of healthy living is to practice purity".

Living is just something people do. Yawn. Everybody lives. Purity however is something noble. Something to aspire to. Something that is motivational.

 
Judith Browning
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Maybe Joseph hit on it with 'practicing purity' as the forum name?   might be the more positive version of 'toxin ectomy' and somewhat clearer then 'purity' alone....
 
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I like practicing purity because it does seem to be somewhat inspiring to want to make our lives pure in all aspects.
 
paul wheaton
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Heather Strouhal wrote:I like practicing purity because it does seem to be somewhat inspiring to want to make our lives pure in all aspects.



And while each person might have different ideas on what all that means, for the sake of these forums, I think we all have some common ground that is well represented in this category.

 
Joseph Lofthouse
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Seems to me like having a forum called "ergonomics" encourages people to think about the topic. I suppose that merging it's threads into another forum would make the topic of ergonomics pretty much disappear from permies.
 
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Joseph Lofthouse wrote:Seems to me like having a forum called "ergonomics" encourages people to think about the topic. I suppose that merging it's threads into another forum would make the topic of ergonomics pretty much disappear from permies.


Erg is a measure of work onomics would indicate conservation of that energy so the topic is about working efficiently.  In health care it means efficiently using your body to  avoid injury.
In the scythe forum I have tried to cover both aspects' getting more done with less work or injury.
So it fits under both self care and getting more done.
 
r ranson
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The ergonomics forum - My concern is that it's not very active which makes me feel either it's not a popular subject or something about it needs changing (new place, new title, new description?).  It's got less than one page worth of threads in it. 

How to fix it? 
  • We could merge it with personal care which would create one larger popular forum and be a step towards making this site easier to navigate for new users. 
  • We could improve it.  At the top of each forum, we have links to the best threads and a little description that is google and user-friendly.  This, ergonomics does not have... yet.
  • We could do an author event - if there is a recently published book that fits with the permie style and is ergonomic based, let us know and we could contact them and see if they are interested in visiting our site for a week, giving away some books, generating some conversation, and promoting their book.  We also have product events that go like that, but only if the product is extremely special. 


  • If we keep ergonomics, then the second one definitely needs doing and I would very much like your help brainstorming some ideas for the description. 


    While we are in the brainstorming mood, let's pretend that "purity' is staying pure, and it needs a one or two sentence description.  What would you think this could be?
     
    Karen Donnachaidh
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    Purity - "Maintaining a wholesome environment where happy, healthy familes can​ thrive."
     
    Hans Quistorff
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    If we keep ergonomics, then the second one definitely needs doing and I would very much like your help brainstorming some ideas for the description.  


    You are welcome to use the description above your post as a basis for description.
    I have been procrastinating on doing my posturology  videos but I have a photographer that may take over the land I have been listing so with his help it may get done. So that my be something to mutualy get things started.
     
    Joseph Lofthouse
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    I have a lot to say about ergonomics... I haven't really been aware that there is a forum on permies for discussing the subject. I'll start making more posts to the forum, and create a couple new threads. It is approaching my busiest planting week.... Maybe it will rain.
     
    Karen Donnachaidh
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    Ergonomics definition from Wiktionary: "The science of the design of equipment, especially so as to reduce operator fatigue, discomfort and injury."
    Keeping yourself safe and at maximum proformance while working.This seems to be an interest of personal care, which happens to be one of the two categories under Purity.

    As a former gym owner and personal trainer, I am all for including ergonomics in Purity. As I said before, "If there were another category, like "Physical and Mental Well-being", I think ergonomics could be a subcategory there, along with exercise tips and equipment, meditation, chiropractic benefits, massage benefits, relaxation techniques, yoga postures, healthy lifestyle habits, weight loss, quiting smoking...."  And, I believe Hans' posturology  videos would fit well here, too. "Physical and Mental Well-being" could be a third category or still under the larger Personal Care category, either way. Ergonomics, I think it belongs here. I don't necessarily think that it needs to be it's own forum.



     
    master steward
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    Karen Donnachaidh wrote:Purity - "Maintaining a wholesome environment where happy, healthy familes can​ thrive."


    I think this description is close - though I also think we are all on our own paths to getting more (or less?) pure. I know it's a work in progress for me!

    What about this:

    purity - striving for the cleanest, purest choices and methods within our own environs

    (TIL that another word for environs is purlieu - who knew?)
     
    pollinator
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    I really liked Toxin-ectomy, as it was descriptive and accurate. It is difficult, at times, to discuss a thing and its benefits without discussing the detractors of the alternative.

    But if focusing on removing the toxic is too toxic a focus, how about transplanting the good? What is the suffix for a medical procedure that transplants something beneficial?

    -CK
     
    Nicole Alderman
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    Hmmm, it looks like "transplant" is pretty much already Latin. It comes from the Latin "transplantare," which is literally:

    "plant again in a different place, from Latin trans- "across" (see trans- ) + plantare "to plant.

    "

    I think, sadly, the medical term for any transplant is...transplant. I don't know how to mix that with purity. Maybe "purity transplant"?


    And, the name "Purity" is still really lacking to me. It doesn't mean anything definitive. "Pure" what? Pure morals, pure thoughts, pure actions? Pure is a term that has a lot of morality mixed into it. It's not something I apply to products in my house. And, while the forum itself looks like it will have a nice definition of what Purity means, when someone is looking through all our forums for a place to ask about non-toxic cleaners, they're probably not going to think purity is the forum to post in. And, if people are searching for non-toxic or "green" or "natural" cleaners or household items, they're not going to search for "purity."

    Maybe "Non-toxic living" "natural living" "green living" "green choices"? They all sound lame, but at least I know what to post in them. I also knew what to post in toxic-ectomy, though it's term did lean toward cider press posts because people would talk about toxins, without realizing the whole point of the forum was to REMOVE toxins. Maybe we could call the forum "Adding Purity?" or "pure choices" "pure options"?

    "Natural living" seems like the most self-explanatory option that might bring people to our site. It's a pretty weak, over-used phrase, but at least people generally know what it means...
     
    r ranson
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    One of the things with getting rid of Toxic-E is we want to prevent people from talking about toxic-ick and instead encourage them to talk about solutions.  When I cleaned out toxic-E there was a lot of content in there that didn't meet publishing standards.  We have a forum especially for those topics in the cider press where trolls and corporate interests have a lot of difficulties gaining enough apples to post.  That's why we have the cider press.  It's a reward for people who know how to be nice

    Now that we've had purity for a while, I find I really like it.  I like that it's vague.  we can each put our own meaning on to it.  I'm hoping we can one day get all the categories and forums down to one-word names.

    "natural living" "green living" "green choices" - I think the whole of permies is about these. 
     
    Chris Kott
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    Hmm.

    Well what about remediation? Some fungi have the ability to sequester and even break down toxic elements in the environment. Could we contextualise the conversation in terms analogous to mycoremediation of contaminated soils?

    -CK
     
    pollinator
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    I like "Natural Living"   ...  when I do searches for things I use the word "Natural" a lot.     Like today, "natural homemade toilet bowl cleaner"

    The Purity Forum has two subcategories:

        home care
        personal care

    Then we have the  Living Forum with two subcategories:

        toxin-ectomy
        ergonomics

    Maybe the two might be combined.
     
    r ranson
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    Thank you for your suggestions.  It's on the list of things to do, but to do it properly, we need to make some new features otherwise we will lose a bunch of goooglelove we worked so hard to get. 

    Short answer, we are working on it. 

    So glad there is interest in this. 
     
    r ranson
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    One thing you could do that would be a big help is to add more content to the ergonomics forum.  It needs more original threads.

    How is that related?  ergonomics gets more googlelove, which makes it easier to convince the powers that be to move this project up the priority list. 
     
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