Aspirin/willow water: an organic gardener's dream?

http://www.instructables.com/id/9-Unusual-Uses-for-Aspirin/step6/Organic-gardeners-dream/

A crushed aspirin in water (one pill to one gallon) helps plants to fight infection and stay alive during traumatic plant experiences like transplanting, cutting, cloning, or zombie attacks. If your plants are dying in front of your eyes, it can be tempting to resort to extreme measures to rescue your little green friends with a water-soluble fertilizer. When stressed, however, plants can't really absorb all those delicious nitrates and phosphates. Dumping fertilizer on a dying plant is like giving a heart attack victim a multivitamin: not quite the ideal time for bioavailablility. Aspirin is the solution (pun!) for your mild flora emergency.

According to the exhaustive research I just performed on Wikipedia, salicylic acid can induce specific changes in root, stem, and leaf structure that create more robust plants. It can also help fruits and vegetables grow bigger and stronger. It will help your plants resist disease, insects, and unusually weak hailstorms.

Additionally, an aspirin solution will also help your cut flowers last longer in the vase so you can go nearly a full week before raking up the dead petals. Unless you're playing the "he loves me, he loves me not" game, in which case you should just count the petals in advance to determine your romantic status and let the aspirin keep the bouquet pretty.

Can one use willow water instead of aspirin?

It's not as concentrated but I don't see why not.

Thank you so much for this... so timely.

I remember My parents using asprin in the water under our christmas tree.

I understand how it breaks down, but isn't this far removed from being "permaculture' let alone organic?  It has a complex crystalline structure that takes acids to form when it was first made, and more recently it is completely synthetic in order to be more digestible. 

Nothing about that is natural.

Wouldn't figuring out how to include plants like willow and spiraea on your property to make the 'weaker' bu actual organic version be a more permaculture way of making this work?

I remember reading about this, but I keep forgetting. And another reason we ought to grow willows...for willow juice.

Ok, so how do you make willow water?

I'm guessing 'willow water' would be the same as the willow bark tea I use as a mild pain killer.  Dried willow bark infused in boiling water is what I use, and, as it seems to work, albeit mildly, on traumatised burras, I should think the same would work for traumatised plants.

What species of willow would folks recommend?  Do some Salix species have more salicylic acid than others, and what is the relative effect on insects? Does salicylic acid deter detrimental insects or attract beneficial species (or vice versa)?

yes all willows contain the same ingredient as asprin, and you can chew the inner bark of any willow to naturally reduce a head ache or for minor pain relief as well..

also soak a bunch of willow twigs in water and then put your cuttings in the water and it will help them root

From what I have read, aspirin and willow bark are similar but different. Aspirin was derived from salicin to create a synthetic forum. They do carry different side effects. To be truly organic and permaculture like, use willow. To experiment on the cheap and easy and dirty, you can try aspirin.

Aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid

Willow bark is salicin

I have tried it, but nothing scientific. trying to get some willow started on the property this year.

Salicin suspended in water becomes salicylic acid.  However, "Aspirin" as we know it has been synthetically produced since 1897 by Bayer.  It was introduced a year prior to Bayer's introduction of "Heroin" in 1898.  The "Aspirin" product remains a big seller to this date.



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John Polk wrote:
Salicin suspended in water becomes salicylic acid.  However, "Aspirin" as we know it has been synthetically produced since 1897 by Bayer.  It was introduced a year prior to Bayer's introduction of "Heroin" in 1898.  The "Aspirin" product remains a big seller to this date.

Thanks for the info. then I stand corrected. I have been told by several in the pharmaceuticals that they were different. Did not realize once put in water, they were the same. Does make since, since aspirin is suppose to be quicker acting while salicin is suppose to last longer.

Well this is lovely news. Our home and property came with a lot of potted willows which I was just staring at yesterday thinking, "hmmmm....where will you go, and what are you good for?" Now - I've got it! Thanks muchly!

Awesome! I just knew this would come in handy for someone. And of course many know that willow is a natural substitute for aspirin but there wasn't an article about that!
We've got plenty of willow around here to experiment with, I think I'll try using it for rooting.

Is there a book or site with info of this sort I wonder? All these old remedies for this and that, I would love to find it all in a collection. Sad to think this once common knowledge is nearly lost to us.

Willow water has been passed down through generations of gardeners.Including myself who was brought up using it.While the internet is a wonderful tool for teaching and learning from it can be more amazing to sit down with some of our elders and glean onto the wonderful information they can share from days gone by.Interesting to me on this site has been the many old time ways that I see may have been twinked here and there by others,yet a few the same ones I have known..Brought back as new knowledge.It is a giggle to to when I read them..
  First time I heard the aspirin  concept was through my mother when a fellow gardener shared it for starting roses.Mom tried it but had better luck with her willow water..Think she may of gotten carried away with the amount of aspirin she used..
I usually use willow trimmings for this or the ones that break when the wind blows so I am not damaging the tree.It is as simple as chopping the smaller stuff into one inch  sized chunks about 2 cups worth - to a half gallon of boiling water, letting them sit overnight.Or if your not in a hurry they can be tossed in with warm water and sit for a couple of days, Grandma used to keep them in the sunshine when she did this..
  The water is then ready to use.I was always taught to keep this in a cold place , my grandma used her root cellar my mom the refrigerator..It will stay usable for about 2 months or so..Pending on the plant types some can will directly root in the water.Others soak in the water get planted and then follow up with using willow water for the first two water sessions.My grandma also used to mix a half cup of this into a gallon of water to boost the roots  from transplanting..I also use a mix to foliar spray some of my plants to help them develop a bit of disease resistance..
  Hugs,Laughter,Light,Love
M

Boiling or pickling willow in vinegar will cause some of the acetic acid to attach to the salicylate and form aspirin and similar compounds. Chinese medicine has used vinegar to process herbs for thousands of years... the vinegar transforms and activates some herbs.

craftylittlemonkey wrote:

Is there a book or site with info of this sort I wonder? All these old remedies for this and that, I would love to find it all in a collection. Sad to think this once common knowledge is nearly lost to us.

The original site was called, "The Great Library of Alexandria," but some people burned it down citing knowledge as an evil in the world, now we have the Internet and it is the greatest site in all the lands.  Common knowledge like this was lost to us, and now we must relearn things, & because of that we also musn't stop discussions because we disagree or we will be doomed to repeat it all.

Mekka, along those lines...

"The world has changed.
I see it in the water.
I feel it in the Earth.
I smell it in the air.
Much that once was is lost,
For none now live who remember it."
--LotR

Can you use very thin trimmings too for your willow water?
And if you make willow bark tea which bark do you take, from thin trimmings or from woody branches?

Ediblecities,
  I use the smaller stuff maybe pencil size or smaller for mine.My grandmother taught us to use it because it is in a state of new growth.She always told us it was the best for the plant needs.
  Myself I  do not use the willow bark for the willow water for propagation.However for tea I have always just stripped the branches that broke off in storms..
  Hugs,Laughter,Light,Love
M&J

Isn't there another plant with salicin in it? Meadow Sweet I think.

yep:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipendula_ulmaria

Here is a site that gives a lot of info on herbal remedies:

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/comindx.html

Aspen trees also contain salicin. Here is some info.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/1841133/419545110/name/Bark+and+Aspirin.pdf

http://www.suite101.com/search.cfm?q=salicin

I have tried tasting my aspen tree bark and the sap that flows from some of them. It is an extreme aspirin taste. Very bitter. So maybe soaking in water would make the difference. 

More info on aspirin and willow water.

http://www.bluestem.ca/willow-article1.htm

Love to you all!

Pamela

I knew someone who used willow water for cloning of herbaceous plants, they always did really well.
No heating pads, water about 50 F degrees, no heating pad, no rooting hormones.
He would soak willow for a few days, and change the willow water everyday -- 2-3 weeks, and you have roots.

M Marx - Thanks for the valuable information. What exactly do you mean "change the willow water everyday?"

Thanks
Pamela Melcher

So, the cuttings of the herb are in whatever cointiner, a mason jar, a rooting tray, etc.
Soak willow in clean water in gallon jugs, or whatever works for you. Change water that the cuttings are soaking in -- daily.
The willows root easily, my understanding is the chemical signal that cuases the willow itself to root, will innoculate the water which is then transfered to your rootlings.
No need to buy rooting hormones.
I am not saying this is fool proof, but it worked well at low air and water temps -- really well -- with plamts that don't root from green cuttings.

Thanks, M Marx.

I get it now. I want to use something natural. I do not expect all the cuttings to root. I want to stay away from the rooting hormones in plant nurseries. They look so chemical and strange, like chemical fertilizers. Plus the rooms where they display them stink of chemicals and it just all says "beware."

I am excited, as I will be propagating a lot. I once worked propagating for a good grower, so I know a lot about what I am doing. He made me use industrially prepared rooting hormone, though. I was always skeptical of that. I just got 10 gallons of sand. Vermiculite also feels too industrialized to use. I want to keep it simple. Be a producer, not a consumer.

Thanks again. Happy Spring!

Pamela Melcher

Coincidentally I just learned about willow water as a rooting compound yesterday, from the good folks at Milkwood Farm in Australia. They run a permaculture operation and have a really great page on FaceBook that anyone can join. Their pictures and videos are wonderful. They used willow water to root some fig tree cuttings from a century-old orchard four years ago, and they are now bearing fruit.

That's funny, cause yesterday I found a 2 inch 15mm diameter branch of a fig tree that was used as cover mulch sprouting a leaf bud and roots -- that seemed odd to me.

Willy, what is their website?

I have been blown away by how easy it is to propagate. Once in the autumn I cut back a whole bunch of wild rose that had engulfed an out building (it had to be done - the building was rendered unusable) and put the cut canes in a neat pile. The rains of winter here in the Pacific NW came in and I had to attend to other things. I just left that pile. When I returned in Spring, many of the canes on the bottom of the pile had formed long roots.

A friend was pruning her roses and then planting rows of seeds and she decided to use the rose prunings to mark the rows, so she just stuck then in the ground. She later noticed that they had formed roots and grown new leaves.

Martin Crawford said that when he prunes trees and shrubs, he just sticks the prunings in the ground where he wants them to grow and some of them form roots. Not many, because he gives them no special care.

It really is simple, life wants to live, and there can be no issue of GMO contamination. We can start to use perennial vegetables and evade the threat of GMO's.

What I was taught by a professional nursery man for whom I worked doing propagation is that it is important not to let the cuttings dry out, to use a sharp cutting tool, to put them into something that is relatively sterile, as you want them to root before they rot. So you want them not to have to deal with a lot of fungi, etc. It is not necessary to have the propagating medium be completely sterile. Sand is good, vermiculite is good. Put 2 or 3 leaf nodes below ground, as that is where the roots will form. Have an equal number of leaf nodes above ground. Reduced the leaves to only a few. Maybe cut some of the leaves in 2. Keep in the shade and water well. After 3 weeks or so, pull gently on the stems and when they root they will want to stay put. Keep checking until they root. It takes longer in cold weather. When they have rooted, you can gently up-pot them into regular potting soil. It is easy.

He made me use rooting hormone, I do not remember what brand.

I was propagating herbs like sage and lavender in September. I only worked for him for about 2 months, and then he did not need extra help.

I have had cuttings take root without the use of rooting hormone, but the success rate was lower.

Life wants to live.

It reveals our conditioning to scarcity to be a lie. This is what peasant populations knew. Connect the dots.

Happiness, Health, Peace and Abundance for All!

Many Thanks and Many Blessings.
Pamela Melcher

i also found a quartered brocoli stem in a pile that had budded and sprouted roots, so it seems maybe some brassicas clone easily.

M Marx -

Wow. I have got to try that. How much of the broccoli was there to root and form buds?

I know I have cut the bottoms off of cabbages and they have produced roots and grown new little plants. They might have gotten bigger if I had put willow water on them so they would grow more roots.

I have also done that with celery, but it does not root very often, but again I bet it would with the willow water.

I have also done that with lettuce and romaine, but they have not formed roots yet. Just new little leaves. I take off all the stalks or leaves except the tiny ones in the middle and put the stump in water and it grows.

I also do that with green onions and leeks. I put their roots in soil and they grow.

This has possibilities.

When I have too many greens for the frig I put them in vases of water and they look great. Maybe some of them would root, if given a chance.

I wonder how far we can take this......

I am searching for a willow tree right now. Does anyone in Portland, Oregon know where I could get willow branches?

Happiness, Health, Peace and Abundance for All!

Many Thanks and Many Blessings,
Pamela Melcher

Is goodies powder safe? It has aspirin in it.

not permie like willow water but around here you can buy straight up salicylic acid as a powder. Recommend for acute trauma from insect or root fungal damage. Only really applicable in an intensive crop production situation, can save a crop so if it is your livelihood this isn't a terrible thing to have on hand. I have also heard rumor of people making their own by concentrating and drying willow water but not sure. I have seen a 'gel' made from willow water used for cloning also. Cool stuff all around.

In the thread Vitamins for Plants, Henry Ikeme seems to be another fan of aspirin water. Thank you again for the link, Henry.

Henry Ikeme wrote:Aspirin work wonders in building plants' immunity against pests and diseases. See this article on it http://www.farmersjoint.com/blog/crop-and-plantation/crops/reduce-pest-attacks-crops-aspirin/.

I believe that the use of aspirin water this past year helped to slow the onset of late blight in my tomatoes. I used it consistently, spraying every two weeks for awhile. I stopped because I had two tomato plants (out of eighty-some) that we're attacked by massive numbers of tomato worms and chose to use Bt. (These two plants also had unusual looking blooms and fruit.) I didn't know how the aspirin regime would work with the Bt, so I stopped the aspirin water sprays. I should have continued after the worms were taken care of, but I got too busy canning tomato juice right after that. In hindsight, I probably should have just destroyed the two plants.

Some people may say that aspirin in the garden is not "organic gardening" and some may say that permaculture is even "beyond or better than organic". I say, I have yet to achieve perfection...perfect soil, perfect methods or perfect plants and produce. Maybe someday, until then I'll continue to try my best, the best way I know how.

If you don't have willow you can also use meddowsweet Filipendula ulmaria It also contains salicylic acid(not salicin) (also gaultherin, spiraeine, citric acid and tanins. dosage given in my book (edible and medicinal plants of Britain and northern Europe) is 1-2 tsp dried flowers per cup water for pain relief which is the same as willow to give a comparison to willow in strength. It states that the leaves can also be used and as I doubt the plant cares what it tastes like, should work just as well! I have not tried either of them, but I'm going to be doing a lot of transplanting next year so I will make a not to water half of them with willow or meadosweet and see if I can notice a difference. Actual aspirin here is very expensive 12 tablets cost more than 6 cabbages!

Coming along 7 years after OP, but last reply was only 8 months ago.

Salicylic acid is what is in the willow (and many other plants) in most of the material I've read.  Knowing plants are sugar factories, I can believe what the plant produces is salicin.  The acetylated chemical is ASA, and is in Aspirin.  There is no point in not using the acetylated form, if it makes sense.  The acetyl group replaces the hydrogen of the base phenol.

Salicin is a glucoside.  Normally when one thinks of a sugar, such as glucose, you think of it as the linear molecule.  But working with pharmacists brings a broader usage of the term sugar, and one finds at times that the sugar has become a ring structure (with a bridging oxygen taking part in the ring).  I suspect any organic chemists will shudder at how I describe this.  Sorry, I am a materials science person.

Chlorophyll containing plants are sugar factories.  They do all kinds of things with sugar.  Carpenters work with nails, plants work with sugar.  There is a broad class of plant poisons which are based on sugar.  A lot of them can evolve cyanide (cyanogenic glycosides).

Salicin is found in the Salix genus, as well as in the Populus genus.  It is used as a plant hormone in many genii (sp? sorry, I never took Latin).

Regular Aspirin are about 350mg per tablet, dosage I ran across recently was 2-4 tablets per gallon (or 4 litre).  Crush the tablets so they dissolve faster.  I have given about 1 litre to each of 4 plants, so about 90mg in a dose (actually I used 1 extra strength in 4 litres).  These plants are all seedlings less than 3 years old.

Back in high school, we once made wintergreen flavouring (methyl salicylate) from acetyl salicylic acid, methanol and sulfuric acid (catalyst).

If I burn hydrogen gas in oxygen, I will form dihydrogen oxide.  This is indistinuishable from pure water.  A natural product is likely not as pure as a chemical product, and the impurities to either depend on the purification process.

There was research done in Germany a few years ago about the response of trees to deer saliva.  Salicylic acid was one of the response vectors of the plants.

Salicylic acid is supposed to be effective for all of the nightshade (tomato, potato, ...) family.  I have given some to a walnut (butternut), a hawthorn, a viburnum and a maple.  So far, the only plant which looks to have responded is the (sugar) maple, and it has activated a bud that hadn't activated earlier this year.  It had lost all its leaves to a deer.  Today, it seems like some of the buds/branches that had been stripped, might be coming back too.

A popular-ish blurb on natural pesticides in food: https://chronicleflask.com/tag/alkaloids/ .  At this point, I don't know if chlorophyll itself is classified as an alkaloid (like nicotine, caffeine, cocaine, solanine).  The presence of alkaloids in plants is probably responsible for us being able to taste something as "bitter".  Sour is associated with pH (acids).  Umami tends to be related to glutamic acid and similar compounds.

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Pruning roses - I had heard that roses are a wonderful plants for people to learn pruning on, because if need be you can prune them with a lawnmower.