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Finding a true red mulberry(Morus rubra)

 
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Has anyone out there had any luck finding a nursery online anywhere that carries true red mulberries (bare root or otherwise, I’ll take any I could get) and not just morus alba being mistakenly advertised as morus rubra?
 
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Wildflower.org is the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center.  They have a listing of nurseries this tree is available at.  Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=moru2


 
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Gabe Gordon wrote:Has anyone out there had any luck finding a nursery online anywhere that carries true red mulberries (bare root or otherwise, I’ll take any I could get) and not just morus alba being mistakenly advertised as morus rubra?



What country are you in?  If you feel comfortable, please share what part of your country you are in as there are some pretty weird restrictions on where and what trees can ship to different regions.
 
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Sorry, I did not get to finish my post as my dog wanted to go out.

This one is on the list and offers mail orders:

ArcheWild Native Nurseries

2191 Hillcrest Road
Quakertown, PA 18951

Region: Mid-Atlantic
Phone: 855-752-6862
Fax: 855-752-6862

Web: www.ArcheWild.com
 
Gabe Gordon
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raven ranson wrote:

What country are you in?  If you feel comfortable, please share what part of your country you are in as there are some pretty weird restrictions on where and what trees can ship to different regions.



I am in the United States, southern Georgia
 
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This might be what you're looking for https://oikostreecrops.com/products/red-mulberry/?search=mulberry
 
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I bought a couple from these folks in Ontario.
http://puslinchnaturallynativetrees.ca/the-plight-of-the-red-mulberry/
 
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Mulberry are notorious for hybridizing, and with the white and red growing together its hard to say what is what.  To make matters more confusing, they have very similar leaf shape and appearance.  But generally the red has darker and thicker leaves with a matte appearance as opposed to thin light colored and shiny.  The white also has leaves that are slightly pubescent.

I also think that the leaf shape variation from heart shaped leaves are female and the grape leafed/lobed is the male plants as mulberry are dioecious (male and female on separate plants).
 
Gabe Gordon
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UPDATE: It took some searching but I have in fact found a red mulberry at a great nursery about two hours from me (they also do online business and I highly recommend them) called Just Fruits and Exotics, here’s the link for anybody else interested: https://justfruitsandexotics.com/product/wacissa-mulberry-tree/
 
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Gabe Gordon wrote:UPDATE: It took some searching but I have in fact found a red mulberry at a great nursery about two hours from me (they also do online business and I highly recommend them) called Just Fruits and Exotics, here’s the link for anybody else interested: https://justfruitsandexotics.com/product/wacissa-mulberry-tree/



Hello, new to the forum here.  Also looking for a morus rubra.  I have been burned several times with ordering what I thought was a morus rubra from a native nursery, only to receive an alba.  

If you don't mind me asking, what characteristic(s) did you use to identify what you purchased as a morus rubra?
 
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Roy Hinkley wrote:I bought a couple from these folks in Ontario.
http://puslinchnaturallynativetrees.ca/the-plight-of-the-red-mulberry/



Thank you for that link.  They collect their own seeds from trees, which are isolated from morus alba.

Seed source:
http://puslinchnaturallynativetrees.ca/seed-origins-listing/

 
Gabe Gordon
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Johannes Schweinhardt wrote:  
If you don't mind me asking, what characteristic(s) did you use to identify what you purchased as a morus rubra?



The leaves were the first give away, very tight and sharp serrations on the edge, matte in appearance,  slightly fuzzy underneath and generally a very rough leaf alltogether. The leaf buds also look pretty spot on

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/fnr/fnr_237.pdf
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Johannes Schweinhardt
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Gabe Gordon wrote:

Johannes Schweinhardt wrote:  
If you don't mind me asking, what characteristic(s) did you use to identify what you purchased as a morus rubra?



The leaves were the first give away, very tight and sharp serrations on the edge, matte in appearance,  slightly fuzzy underneath and generally a very rough leaf alltogether. The leaf buds also look pretty spot on

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/fnr/fnr_237.pdf



Thank you for your response.  The pubescence on the underside of the leaf is, from what I've gathered, the most important characteristic.  Your observations give me hope.  I'll ask the vendor for clarification because there is some indication on the Internet that the Wacissa mulberry is a morus nigra.  

There appear to be gaps in understanding of rubra.  I cannot find an answer as to when rubra seedlings begin to exhibit all of the important characteristics for rubra.  I don't believe the characteristic pubescence is present in young seedlings.  Furthermore, I'm not even sure it's present in young leaves.  The same goes with the serrations.  I have seen young leaves from old trees that do not have sharp serrations.  As the leaves mature through the year, I suspect the serrations become more pronounced.

The berries on the Wacissa Mulberry Tree that you linked to look correct, although possibly a bit too long.  The description of the size of the tree is generally comports with my understanding.  Morus rubra is a small tree.  The specimens I've seen at the National Arboretum were all small.

The state of morus rubra in this country is concerning.
 
Johannes Schweinhardt
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Here's an excellent paper discussing differences among rubra, alba, and nigra.
https://www.growables.org/information/TropicalFruit/documents/MulberryKentuckyCampbell.pdf

Here's a picture of the Wacissa tree.  It looks to me to be a morus nigra, although I don't know what to make of the length of the fruit.  It's possibly a hybrid of some sort.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180407202310/http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/mulberry-wacissa.jpg

The deeply cordate base is not characteristic of a mature morus rubra leaf.

Thanks for the discussion.
 
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I got mine from

https://www.tn.gov/agriculture/forests/seedlings.html
 
Gabe Gordon
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Thank you for that article, the one from Purdue university has been the only one I could find. After giving it a read it looks like you are correct. I suppose in my excitement at the prospect of finding a morus rubra I completely overlooked that it could be morus nigra, and  upon reinspection of my own tree, I agree, much as it pains me, the leaves are indeed too cordate to align with a rubra, and look exactly like the pictures of a morus nigra in the article you linked. Apologies everyone, for the false alarm.
Ah well, the search continues! At least I have 6 other mulberry trees (including nigra now I guess! 😉) to keep me company in the meantime
 
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Could use some expertise on what I have growing on my fence line.  

I looked through the PSU paper and while the leaf is darker green on top and has similar vein patterns as the rubra, it does not have the fuzz underneath.  

It has the more pointed serrated edge of a rubra or nigra.   Could this be a cross between a couple different varieties?  It does not match the description of a Paper Mulberry.  
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