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Idle dreamer
Trace Oswald wrote:I would urge people not to be so quick to lump all preppers in with a tiny group of people with anti-social personalities and delusions of grandeur. For every Walter Mitty stock-piling an arsenal against zombie hordes, thousands of people are quietly putting away canned goods and planting gardens. Let’s not lose sight of that.
Living a life that requires no vacation.
Tyler Ludens wrote:Two prepper permaculturists I read and watch:
http://www.thesurvivalgardener.com/
http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/
and there's this: Geoff Lawton: Surviving Collapse, Designing your Way to Abundance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01N-kBSdiZI
Life on a farm is a school of patience; you can't hurry the crops or make an ox in two days.
Henri Alain
Mart Hale wrote: I think the TV show "Doomsday Preppers" has influenced many how they think
about prepping, and preppers.
Idle dreamer
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Trace Oswald wrote:All "reality" type shows thrive on sensationalism. How far would the show get if it focused on a group of people laughing and having fun while canning, or featured my father, brothers, and I working together to build a new chicken coop? For people to point at that show and say "That's a prepper!" is like watching Hoarders and saying that is what people with collections are like.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
I'm not quite a lumberjack, but that's OK, I sleep all night and I dream all day; I'll coppice trees, I'll grow my food, and compost poo and pee! With a well and off-grid solar, it's a permies life for me! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts
Mark Tudor wrote:
I like Chris' idea of there being a widespread idea of functional training for everyone. I recall in middle school we had shop class and home economics, and everyone learned to sew, cook, and use tools on a very limited scale.
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
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Devin Lavign wrote:People start out in prepping usually out of fear. They have no idea how to prep or even exactly what to prep for, but learn the world is unpredictable both from man made events and natural disasters.
This starts phase 1.
Phase 1 is gear acquisition. At this point it is just throw money at the problem. Buy a ton of stuff you don't know anything about in hopes it is useful. Often this is a lot of prepackaged kits built and put together by someone else who says this is what you need to survive.
Some people get stuck in this, and it is easy to do. There is always a cool new toy to buy. There is a whole economy built upon it. But some folks start to break out of this as they learn that they have no idea how to use the items they have.
This starts phase 2.
Phase 2 is knowledge/skills acquisition. Now with all the gear the would be prepper is learning skills and knowledge are important. Studying things like bushcraft and primitive skills. Learning more in depth knowledge about potential dangers. In this phase many start getting more community oriented, as it tends to be hard to know everything you need. So division of skills and knowledge start to make sense. However Phase 2 can loop back to phase 1, as you learn more you realize a lot of your gear is sub par. So go through a new gear buying phase, but for higher quality good gear. Many get stuck in this as it can now be a pride thing and feed the ego knowing you have a $500 knife that is the ultimate survival knife. ETC... However the knowledge and skill phase can also lead to homesteading.
This starts phase 3.
Phase 3 is homesteading. Homesteaders are built in preppers. You have to be. Homesteading is a difficult and unpredictable place to be. You can get cut off in the winter, have crops fail, machinery go down, etc... The Homesteader has to plan for these small scale disasters. To be prepared. Also urban and suburban prepping is really an exercise in spending a lot of money to keep an unsustainable life. This is why a lot of people in prepping move toward homesteading. Realizing it is better to pre bug out. To set up the homestead and get it running. Rather than wait for disaster then try and make a go at gardening and livestock. To move to a more stable safe place with neighbors who will help rather than compete with you. Again like phase 2, phase 3 does have the loop back to phase 1. There is a lot of cool gear to get for homesteading. Some really expensive gear too. But there is also a way up to the next phase, permaculture.
This starts phase 4
Phase 4 is permaculture. For those who get to homesteading they find it a lot of hard work. But they are also often smart educated people. They often find permaculture in the process of learning homesteading, and find that it helps cut the work load and make homesteading easier. Not easy mind you, but easier than non permie homesteading. As well as a permaculture farm can be more stealthy than a standard one. Doomsday Preppers even had a guy who explained his permaculture food forest was not recognizable as a food source from distance and even up close it was hard to tell unless you really know plants. This makes permaculture very attractive to preppers. Lower labor and more camouflaged the permaculture homestead is the ideal prepping technique.
I have yet to see a phase 5, but I would not be surprised if there was one. Maybe trying to relabel prepping is phase 5.
"Where will you drive your own picket stake? Where will you choose to make your stand? Give me a threshold, a specific point at which you will finally stop running, at which you will finally fight back." (Derrick Jensen)
Devin Lavign wrote: However Phase 2 can loop back to phase 1, as you learn more you realize a lot of your gear is sub par. So go through a new gear buying phase, but for higher quality good gear. Many get stuck in this as it can now be a pride thing and feed the ego knowing you have a $500 knife that is the ultimate survival knife. ETC... However the knowledge and skill phase can also lead to homesteading.
As I said I feel most preppers start from a state of fear and I laid out my phases I have observed preppers go through. I see most folks pulling out of the fear base by the time they hit phase 2, if not sooner. As soon as they go down the path of knowledge and skills they tend to leave fear behind and go into a much more positive place.
Argue for your limitations and they are yours forever.
Creating edible biodiversity and embracing everlasting abundance.
Hugo Morvan wrote:We are now at a point in time, the elitist of the elite do not need us anymore, robots/AI about to take off. Why would they keep us alive, destroying the planet? Their planet. These peeps own more than half the planet already, growing at an exponential rate. Most people just bumble about life , not knowing, not wanting to know, afraid of all sorts. I don't see how people cannot be preppers, or at least have prepper awareness.
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
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Trace Oswald wrote:
That is the exact line of thinking that led to the current doomsday prepper mentality.
Idle dreamer
Hugo Morvan wrote:We are now at a point in time, the elitist of the elite do not need us anymore, robots/AI about to take off. Why would they keep us alive, destroying the planet? Their planet.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
Chris Kott wrote:I forget who said it, and I'm paraphrasing, but why attribute to malice what is more easily explained by incompetence?
I don't see any evidence of world order-scale cooperation in any underhanded way. I think its plausible that competing financial interests are bumbling around trying to hog the whole pie and getting in each other's way.
That induced powerlessness has always confused me regarding the prepper and survivalist movements, which are usually at least sold as an empowering reaction to doomsday fear motivations. It always felt very Eeyore to me.
-CK
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
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Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
Chris Kott wrote:I forget who said it, and I'm paraphrasing, but why attribute to malice what is more easily explained by incompetence?
I don't see any evidence of world order-scale cooperation in any underhanded way. I think its plausible that competing financial interests are bumbling around trying to hog the whole pie and getting in each other's way.
That induced powerlessness has always confused me regarding the prepper and survivalist movements, which are usually at least sold as an empowering reaction to doomsday fear motivations. It always felt very Eeyore to me.
-CK
Argue for your limitations and they are yours forever.
This is all just my opinion based on a flawed memory
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
Ben Zumeta wrote:People with guns are much more likely to die by them, and that has been proven many times over.
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
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Trace Oswald wrote:The studies showing that gun owners die by their own gun include suicides.
Chris Kott wrote:It might make sense in the context of local militias, in which it was written, where perhaps the militia is standing in for absent law enforcement officials.
-CK
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
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Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
Trace Oswald wrote: The term militia at the time it was written, meant the individual citizen, and in no way meant a group of people "standing in" for law enforcement agencies.
Idle dreamer
Tyler Ludens wrote:
Trace Oswald wrote: The term militia at the time it was written, meant the individual citizen, and in no way meant a group of people "standing in" for law enforcement agencies.
2 : the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/militia
I, as an individual with mental illness, can go out today and buy a gun for any purpose. In what way does that constitute a "well regulated Militia"?
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
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Idle dreamer
Tyler Ludens wrote:Can someone please explain to me how any loon going out to buy a gun for any purpose is "a well regulated Militia"?
?
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
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Trace Oswald wrote:
Tyler Ludens wrote:Can someone please explain to me how any loon going out to buy a gun for any purpose is "a well regulated Militia"?
?
There are mountains of books written on this topic, but the bottom line is, the 2nd amendment was written into the Constitution to allow the citizens of this country to protect themselves from a tyrannical government. It is pretty clear how they came to the conclusion that a right like that was necessary.
Idle dreamer
Tyler Ludens wrote:
Trace Oswald wrote:
Tyler Ludens wrote:Can someone please explain to me how any loon going out to buy a gun for any purpose is "a well regulated Militia"?
?
There are mountains of books written on this topic, but the bottom line is, the 2nd amendment was written into the Constitution to allow the citizens of this country to protect themselves from a tyrannical government. It is pretty clear how they came to the conclusion that a right like that was necessary.
I'm not asking how they came to that conclusion, I'm asking how the present situation of gun ownership, in which people who are entirely unqualified to own arms can purchase them, constitute a "well regulated Militia."
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Idle dreamer
Tyler Ludens wrote:In what way is any random unqualified person buying a gun "well regulated"?
In what way am I "well regulated" if I run down to the feed store and buy a gun today?
I have no problem with gun ownership. My husband owns some guns. I don't own any because I don't think crazy people should mess with guns.
I'm just curious about how current US citizen gun ownership constitutes "well regulated." I'm hoping for an answer to this question.
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
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This is all just my opinion based on a flawed memory
Ben Zumeta wrote:Trace:” I have yet to see any credible study showing that a person that committed suicide would not have had a gun not been present.”
I think, like virtually every human being, you have been ignoring evidence you don’t like as well, because people with guns are vastly more likely to commit suicide. This indicates had a gun not been available, many of those suicides would not have happened. Just like any homicide or any other human activity, the easier we make something, the more likely we are to do it. Guns make suicide and other homicide much easier. How is this arguable? I could post them studies but you could also just google if interested in something beyond confirming your own preexisting beliefs.
Also, it is only fair to assume those with guns are probably more likely to be in dangerous situations and therefore sound studies should account for this with sound statistical analysis, which is doable.
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Trace Oswald wrote: I suspect you will still disagree.
Idle dreamer
Tyler Ludens wrote:
Trace Oswald wrote: I suspect you will still disagree.
I don't think I've disagreed with you so far. I still don't feel very well regulated, as a militia, myself personally, since I could run out and buy a gun today for any reason without even knowing how to use it.
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series