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Summary

Paul continues the smackdown with 6 of his patreons (Mark, Katie, Opalyn, and someone from New Zealand whose name was never mentioned) on the topic of the ideals that Paul wants people to adhere to when building on his land.

In an old podcast, Paul hypothesized dividing his future land into four sections, one organic, the next with 1/10th the contaminants, the third with 1/100th, the fourth with no contaminants, even fire or plumbing.  The idea behind the no-fire rule being that wood smoke having many times the carcinogens of tobacco smoke, and the idea behind no plumbing being that pipes always get full of mysterious gunk that can’t be good for anyone.  The fourth zone was never designed to be for everyone, but rather for absolute purists or people trying to fight cancer by reducing toxins in the environment to as close to zero as possible.  On the topic of purity, if you’re fencing an area off and want to grow stuff near the fencing, avoid using rolls of galvanized fence, as a small amount of the galvanizing will be leeched out in rain and steadily poison the soil around it.  The effect is much more pronounced around buildings made of galvanized metal, simply because there’s much more of it.

Last year, Paul bought some organic, edible citric acid for use as a cleaning agent, going one step beyond “a cleaner that you can eat”, into “a cleaner you want to eat” territory.  A lot of people in Missoula use apple cider vinegar for cleaning, which is edible, if as a condiment, but Paul has gotten sick to the teeth of the smell.  Headed in the same direction, Opalyn has switched from using bleach to hydrogen peroxide solution with baking soda, which while still not edible, at least won’t kill you like bleach will.  This topic is probably going to get its own smackdown in the future.

Relevant Threads

Clean With Cleaners You Can Eat by Raven Ranson

Wilderland - a permaculture commune in New Zealand

Fencing forum

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This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
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COMMENTS:
 
pollinator
Posts: 1666
Location: Massachusetts, 6b, suburban, nearish coast, 50x50, full sun, 40" year-round even distribution
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Sometimes I wish I could un-hear a thing.   Plumbing.  I'm going back to the well and bucket...
 
pollinator
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There’s a David Attenborough documentary well worth watching Satoyama: Japan's Secret Water Garden

It’s a beautifully filmed nature program focusing on the relationship between the people of Biwa-ko lake and water.

They’re not quite level four on plumbing, but as close as I’ve seen. From listening to Paul talk in this podcast, I think he will find this fascinating. There’s a bonus for food preparation - fermented fish . . .

1) They have plenty of fresh water springs
2) Some houses are built on the springs
3) The spring room also acts like a root cellar - cool all year temperature
4) They keep fish in the spring pool. They use the pool for washing up pots. The fish eat the scraps and the water leaves the house clean enough for the next house to use

It’s 50+ minutes long but I don’t think it would waste any permaculturist or homesteaders time to watch.  

I’m biased, I love Japan. I’m not so biased as ignore that like every modern country, they’ve still screwed a lot of things up.  I’m, however, constantly amazed at how they come up with some really smart ideas. I think it’s because the Edo period meant many of the indigenous, harmonious ways survived into very recent times and are still being practiced.

Anyhoo . . . Here’s a youtube link to the documentary. Sit back and enjoy - it’s a gem

 
Joshua Myrvaagnes
pollinator
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Location: Massachusetts, 6b, suburban, nearish coast, 50x50, full sun, 40" year-round even distribution
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Maybe the issue isnt that most plumbing moves water--it's that it holds it still.  If it flowed constantly it might not build up slime.
 
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I have been thinking about for a while and finally drafted two documents that would be relevant and wanted to drive some discussion to the posts I made about it.

https://permies.com/t/169514/Permaculture-HOA#1330867
https://permies.com/t/169513/Permaculture-Commons-Surrounded-private-property#1330863
 
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The Wheaton Eco Scale
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