The death of rats - need inspiration for some discworld fan art

I'm very tempted to try some discworld fan art from the book/movie hogfather.  Specifically The Death of Rats.

I know i want to paint something, I even saved a rat skull and have a pork pie burried deep in the freezer for this. The turnips i pla ted specifically for this didn't grow, so I would have to get some from the store.

Anyway, if you know what I'm talking about, can you help me brainstorm?

And what's your favourite moments from the book and/or movie?

I also have a pair of old, falling apart, leather boots that could be used for props.

You need Quoth the Raven in there :D  
And I don't know how you make an expression of a sniggering rat... but... That WOULD be neat.

Some stills I got from a low res version of the movie

Quoth, absolutely belongs there!

We have his brother here.

In fact, I had a terrible job not naming this fella Quoth as Austin is such a Discworld fan.

He shares his brother's love of eyeballs too. He says these ones look a bit bloodshot, just the way he likes them...



He ate the lot of them. Though he did say they weren't like proper eyeballs. They had hard bits in the middle and weren't full of salty water like they should be.



I wonder if a painting through a raven's eyes could work?

Found my copy of hogfather, the only Terry Pratchett book I've found second hand.

And a tiny rat skull for practice.

I just figured out the actress for the granddaughter is the same as in Downton Abby

Some ideas from last fall.  I think that was when the idea first started, but I didn't feel my skills were up to it and gave up.







If memory serves, this is gathering random ideas from my head and, in the case of the big rat, the internet.

squeak.

I've been attempting thumbnails to decide a composition.

And I've come to the conclusion that I am trying to cram too much into the painting.

Maybe if I treat it like a still life with the death of rats.  That's four things at minimum on the table (pie, turnip, sherry, rat).  Four is an awkward number for composition so I might need to try something different.

r ranson wrote:Four is an awkward number for composition so I might need to try something different.

That depends a lot on the relative shapes and sizes as well. The rat and the sherry could be relatively tall and thin, the pie and turnip round and fat. The structure of the table itself could form a fifth elephant element....

Audio book.

Chapter 12 has a lot of death of rat and hogswatch decorations

Chapter 16 has death of rats replace the angle at the top of the hogswarch tree with a little star on the end of his scythe.

I never did anything with this yet.  The more I try to do my own composition, the worse I feel I get.

But maybe this is worth trying?

Any suggestions to help me get over my fear of failure?

First cold morning this summer.  I know it will be hot in an hour when the sun gets above the wildfire smoke, but for now, I am wearing my cardigan.  This always reminds me of Halloween and it's time to get my costume ready.

I've been very down on myself and my painting this week.  The better I am at copying masterworks, the worse I feel about composition skills.  I need to spend a few months focusing on this skill.

So, with the understanding that i will probably fail, maybe that freedom could help me try and paint the death of rats?

In a way, I'm sort of asking for help.  But I also don't know what kind of help i need.

So perhaps, I'm asking for help to figure out where to focus my learning or experiment next.  The first stepping stone because this problem looks so big to me.

What i have so far.
1. A real rat skull (most of one) i dug up in the garden.
2. Fake rat skeleton, bigger than life size
3. An budding interest in making miniature things
4. Painting skills that allow me to copy, but not create
5. Lack of confidence

What about making it a series of paintings or drawings?

K Kaba wrote:What about making it a series of paintings or drawings?

Wouldn't that be great!

At this stage, one would be a victory.

What I mean is more...
So sometimes the overall idea that I want to make is too vague or big or important or something for what I want to make. It's a bit like that "fear of a blank canvas" or writer's block. The idea of having to do it  and do it right in one shot is the block.

The easiest way I've found around that is like most big problems, eat it one bite at a time. I might do a dozen ATCs (trading card sized) of rat skeleton drawings, or half a dozen quick putty sculpts of rat skulls over a week. Maybe I'd take pictures of that rat skeleton model from a dozen wacky directions and use those as references.

And the raven?  Maybe in the background.

Maybe 99% cloak and just a pinch of skeleton nose ...

K Kaba wrote:What I mean is more...
So sometimes the overall idea that I want to make is too vague or big or important or something for what I want to make. It's a bit like that "fear of a blank canvas" or writer's block. The idea of having to do it  and do it right in one shot is the block.

The easiest way I've found around that is like most big problems, eat it one bite at a time. I might do a dozen ATCs (trading card sized) of rat skeleton drawings, or half a dozen quick putty sculpts of rat skulls over a week. Maybe I'd take pictures of that rat skeleton model from a dozen wacky directions and use those as references.

I think a series would be lovely...if I knew how to do one.  Just one.  Doesn't even have to be good.

But right now, I'm lacking somethingm, I don't yet know what, to get even started on one.  

Weird thing, there are a few times in my life when I've tried to teach an adult to bake.  Twice, "stick it in the oven" is met with blank looks.  "You mean rhe microwave?  Where is it?"  There are adult people in this world that don't even know they don't know what an oven is.  

There is a blind spot here where i don't know what i don't know to make this project happen.  So I can't figure out how to learn it.

Maybe if I can do just one, next year it might be fun to do another...and maybe most years.  But the thought of this commitment makes me not even want to try.  That's too much obligation to myself.  So I focus on one.

paul wheaton wrote:And the raven?  Maybe in the background.

Maybe 99% cloak and just a pinch of skeleton nose ...

Quoth is epic.  

I've been having fun with fabric lately, so mostly cloak sounds like fun.

Maybe he can look giant and majestic.  And in the foreground, off to the edge, is something obviously small.

I forgot, i also have pork pies in the freezer and a sherry glass.

r ransom wrote:
I've been very down on myself and my painting this week.  The better I am at copying masterworks, the worse I feel about composition skills.  I need to spend a few months focusing on this skill.

So, with the understanding that i will probably fail, maybe that freedom could help me try and paint the death of rats?

Composition is so hard! It's something I've always struggled with, maybe because I can't visualize things.

Recently, I was trying to help make a logo for my friend's school. They'd made an A.I. version, and I thought their school might get more traction with something more hand made. First, I just remade the design with painting. But, the design itself still looked like A.I., so I thought. "I'll try to make a new sign for their school! It shouldn't be too hard."

Bwahahaha, poor, naïve me from before did not know what I was talking about! I tried sketching out a bunch of designs. I did three or four, and they were all bad. Then I tried water coloring some sketches. Also bad. Then I got disheartened and gave up.

I honestly find it easier to sketch out components separately and then put the pictures in photoshop so I can move things around on different layers to get something that looks decent. I hate spending time drawing something...only to realize it looks terrible in the composition.

Having said all of that, I think this picture was really eye-catching:

I took my skeleton out for a walk and we found a stick the right shape and length.



With a little bit of help, i got the bark off



The goose then took an hour long nap on my foot so i had to sit there and smooth the snathe with my knife some more.

Nicole Alderman wrote:.

Having said all of that, I think this picture was really eye-catching:

Thanks.
I wish it was my composition, but alas, it was a study based on someone else's work.  

The Death of Rats has a snath, but what he needs now is a scythe blade.

After some failed attempts with tinfoil and upcycled packaging, someone reminded me that copper is bendy and I have some extra bendy coper pipe from helping renovate a circa 1950 house.  And a hammer.



Shall we take a moment to admire the anvil?  I don't see many railway anvils these days.  They are good if you can find one.

With a bit of help from a family member, we based it on a brush blade but made it longer because The Death of Rats is all about the scythe.  

blade meets snath



Keeping with the copper theme, some wire to attatch the two together.  

Sure, it's not book accurate, but it's what I can make with materials to-hand.  

My grim squeeker looks pretty cold.  

Do you think we should cut off his ears?  They don't seem to work for me.  But mutilating a rat skeleton isn't really on my list of expected things to do this week.  

Do rats even have bones in their ears? I'm pretty sure most animals just have cartilage for their ear supports.

That's probably why the rat ear bones look funky. They're not supposed to be there.

It kind of reminds me of these "spider skeletons" I saw in the store last fall:

Spiders don't have skeletons. They have exoskeletons...

The real rat skull i have has no bones where the ears were.

But also, this skeleton is so bad, would it still look rat-like without the ears?

Hmm, the scythe seems to be blade heavy and won't stand up when "held" by the rat over his shoulder.  I might need some sort of counterweight.

I think the 'ears' should go. They're a bit oversized for a rat I think anyway. Are you going to make him a cloak? I think an open fronted cloak could hide some structural element to help him stand up. I always imagined the death of rats being on their hind legs - probably from early illustrations, as I don't think it is mentioned specifically. It would be difficult to swing a scythe on all fours....

The Grim Squeeker is looking pretty cold.  I can hear the virtual bones knocking together.

Let's see if I can remember how to sew a cloak.  



I measured that he's probable about 8 inches tall, so let's make the cloak that long.  Only... circumference, radius, and that other one got muddled in my brain.  I left my 8 inch plate alone overnight to see if math would sort itself out.  It sort of did.  

Eventually, I got this.  



He seemed to like the half circle cloak better, so I used the extra fabric for the hood.

You know, it would probably be faster to get my sewing machine unburried and just sew it.  Half an hour?  An hour?  But no!  I spend all day hand hemming this bleeping thing.  Then sewing the hood together, then trying to figure out how they all go together.  It worked so well in my brain, but actually sewing ...



That's how my wrist feels.

It's got potential.

Anyone up for some math?

How large do i make my Hogswatch card?

Google says "A common adult rat stands about 6 to 10 inches (15 to 25 cm) tall when balanced on its hind legs", is that right?  

It also says "5×7 inches (A7): The classic standard. It fits nicely in an A7 envelope and gives you plenty of room for photos and personal messages."


Ratty skeleton seems larger than a normal rat, especially the skull (and ears).  Maybe 12 inches on hind legs?

Since I would make the card out of paper, i can choose any size.  Ay suggestion?

Also, i have a normal sized pork pie and sherry glass.  Somehow this can become a painting, maybe?

You will be soooo... ready for Hallowe'en. Please find some way to put the Grim Squeaker on your front door!

Jay Angler wrote:You will be soooo... ready for Hallowe'en. Please find some way to put the Grim Squeaker on your front door!

I wonder if real rats would recognize him?  We might be on to something.

Nicole Alderman wrote:Do rats even have bones in their ears? I'm pretty sure most animals just have cartilage for their ear supports.

You are absolutely correct. Neither humans, nor rats, nor most of the common mammals I know, have anything more than cartilage in their ears and it will decompose pretty quickly.

There are people out there who make realistic replica skulls for rats and other animals. They've been making replica dinosaur skeleton parts for a long time - either to fill in missing parts, or for displays where the original pieces are too delicate to want to use them.

This picture is supposedly a genuine rat scull:


source

ETA: I am often dismayed by the things humans do to celebrate Hallowe'en, or to just scare other humans who have never actually seen a genuine skull.

Quick value study, with ears to see if it might work



It's got potential.

This is done with raw umber and white.  I forgot how quickly raw umber dries, and seems to do so even faster on paper.  After the first blockin was finished, the paint was too dry to come in and add details.  Which isn't a bad thing for a quick study.

There is a lot wrong with the painting, but the composition has something interesting worth exploring.

I like how this turned out.  



Another value study in oilcolour.  This time with slower drying caput mortuum hue (really, it's mars violet)  and white.  I had a bit more time to work on it.

There is something wrong with the cloak that it's not flowing well.  I suspect it needs to be shorter... but that means more hemming.  

Even if this is all i manage this year, it's a good start.  Although I hope to do some more like sherry glass and rat skulls studies.

I would very much like to do a painting painting rather than just a sketch, but composition is hard.


What's my timeing like?  
Is hogfather a Christmas or Halloween book?  If we say Christmas, I might be able to get something done.

Sorry, sorry, sorry - but those ears just don't work for me. If that thing is plastic, I'd try and cut them off!

Sigh... I know it's just imaginary, but it's like the video I'm watching while I work - a genuine archeologist, fact-checking AI slop about ancient humans. Like he says, the real knowledge is out there! How do we expect our children to learn things if we feed them garbage?