"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
An important distinction: Permaculture is not the same kind of gardening as organic gardening.
Mediterranean climate hugel trenches, fabuluous clay soil high in nutrients, self-watering containers with hugel layers, keyhole composting with low hugel raised beds, thick Back to Eden Wood chips mulch (distinguished from Bark chips), using as many native plants as possible....all drought tolerant.
Could we define "rural wasteland"? I get concerned when what is growing naturally somewhere, and is part of a fragile and balanced ecosystems for the animals and critters who need what's growing there to survive, is not thought to be "enough", and we humans should start planting things helter skelter. There are an awful lot of invasive nonnative plants that cause real problems for rural areas.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
There is plenty of space where humans are concentrated, that could be used in more productive ways. I don't think we need to invade the rural space with this idea
An important distinction: Permaculture is not the same kind of gardening as organic gardening.
Mediterranean climate hugel trenches, fabuluous clay soil high in nutrients, self-watering containers with hugel layers, keyhole composting with low hugel raised beds, thick Back to Eden Wood chips mulch (distinguished from Bark chips), using as many native plants as possible....all drought tolerant.
A couple more Ted Talks I watched on yard gardens.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Cristo Balete wrote:
This is the State park motto: LEAVE ONLY FOOTPRINTS - TAKE ONLY MEMORIES.
Idle dreamer
An important distinction: Permaculture is not the same kind of gardening as organic gardening.
Mediterranean climate hugel trenches, fabuluous clay soil high in nutrients, self-watering containers with hugel layers, keyhole composting with low hugel raised beds, thick Back to Eden Wood chips mulch (distinguished from Bark chips), using as many native plants as possible....all drought tolerant.
why can't it be native plantings and create better biodiversity.
I think food gardens in cities are best put where we currently have useless landscaping.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Cristo Balete wrote: what is "useless landscape"?
Idle dreamer
I personally believe that native plants should be included in every garden design, including food gardens.
Permaculture is design.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Roberto pokachinni wrote:
Levante, Andras wrotePermaculture is design.
Permaculture is a system framed by ethics. When it comes down to it, if those ethics are being practiced, then it is permaculture, regardless of whether we recognize the design, or if the people involved are consciously designing anything.
Levente Andras wrote: Ethics = good intentions.
An important distinction: Permaculture is not the same kind of gardening as organic gardening.
Mediterranean climate hugel trenches, fabuluous clay soil high in nutrients, self-watering containers with hugel layers, keyhole composting with low hugel raised beds, thick Back to Eden Wood chips mulch (distinguished from Bark chips), using as many native plants as possible....all drought tolerant.
Cristo Balete wrote:
Levente Andras wrote: Ethics = good intentions.
Levente, I'm glad you pointed out that guerrilla gardening is activism as opposed to the design system of Permaculture, or any gardening, for that matter. I think it's an important distinction because the "good intentions" behind activism may only suit the activist.
In the early colonies of America women who had crossed eyes were thought to be witches and were hung. That's activism with good intention, but it was terribly misguided. So do we only have to use good intention as the foundation for guerrilla gardening?
You are basically saying that permaculture means simply acting on good intentions, while conscious, careful design is an optional. That's a very slippery path.
This is true, but the concept you are framing also narrowly defines what guerrilla gardening is, or can be, if we are considering that activism can not have a powerfully positive effect for instance; indeed it may be beneficial for many more people than the activist(s) that implemented it, and perhaps paradigm changing towards permacultural ethics and values, by people who were not ever before exposed to such connections. It may indeed only suit the activist, but in my view, I would say that this is unlikely to be the case in most guerrilla gardening."good intentions" behind activism may only suit the activist.
I would say no; certainly not imperatively, absolutely... There are bound to be reckless idiots doing a crappy thing and making claims, no matter who you are, or what you are doing. That's nihilism, and it's a big part of what's wrong in almost any system. However, this negative potential should not discount guerrilla gardening's potential to be used as a tool towards permacultural ends, and that good intention could very well be the foundation for guerrilla gardening, and guerrilla gardening could very well be used by a permacultural practitioner with good design.So do we only have to use good intention as the foundation for guerrilla gardening?
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Idle dreamer
If people are able to grow food in cities, by whatever method - even Guerilla Gardening - this might mean that more land can be returned to what Bill Mollison called "wild nature."
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Roberto pokachinni wrote:
You are basically saying that permaculture means simply acting on good intentions, while conscious, careful design is an optional. That's a very slippery path.
Yes, it is a slippery path, potentially, but so are many very conscious designs that do not work out exactly as planned, and end up being a waste of resources and must be re-done. On scale, guerrilla gardening does very minor potential ecological damage in urban areas, than some permaculture design that for example caused too much water to be held somewhere on land, resulting in waterlogging (a spring) down slope and off the property, but could not be easily foreseen in the initial design.
...
if someone goes about doing something that is in line with permaculture, whether they consciously are practicing permaculture, or consciously designing with those ethics in exactly in mind, or not, but are simply, by way of their intentions to do the right thing, follow real permacultural ethics and are in fact practicing permaculture de facto
Tyler Ludens wrote:I think this starts to fall into the "who decides what is 'real' permaculture" problem. There's a thread here on permies which asks "who is really doing permaculture" and by some criteria, even Geoff Lawton isn't "really" doing permaculture because he makes his primary living from teaching rather than farming, and isn't producing the maximum amount of food from his land (merely tens of thousands of meal's worth of produce). If people are able to grow food in cities, by whatever method - even Guerilla Gardening - this might mean that more land can be returned to what Bill Mollison called "wild nature." The end goal of permaculture, as Mollison expressed it, is to return the bulk of land to wild nature, because, due to the tremendous productivity of permaculture systems, humans do not need that much land for our needs. If that can be achieved, it seems to me, it will be a success borne upon the ethics of Permaculture.
Idle dreamer
Tyler Ludens wrote:meth·od
ˈmeTHəd/Submit
noun
a particular form of procedure for accomplishing or approaching something, especially a systematic or established one.
I dunno. "Accomplishing" looks like "doing" to me. So if one is applying the design method of permaculture, seems to me that one is doing it. But this is a semantic hair-splitting of the most extreme kind, in my opinion, especially on this messageboard which is mostly dedicated to what people are doing.
ac·com·plish
əˈkämpliSH/Submit
verb
achieve or complete successfully.
Cristo Balete wrote:Urban places are mostly privately owned, or maintained by tax dollars, so it costs everyone when plants show up that shouldn't be there.
These ripple effects are huge, and they can go on for hundreds of years
This is the State park motto: LEAVE ONLY FOOTPRINTS - TAKE ONLY MEMORIES.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Chris Rice
USDA Zone 5b, Rock Island, Illinois
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