Farm junk / dump cleanup and remediation

Hello,

   The family farm I'd like to make regenerative/ sustainable permaculture farm has a dump pile. Junk for years was dumped there even recently my uncle who is the opposite of permaculture , dumped more junk and burned it. This is in a ditch or "dry" creek that does infact run further down stream especially during rain events.

I need the cheapest easiest fastest and best solutions to this horrible mess. Unfortunately I seem to be the only one here who cares and thinks it absolutely horrible. Also for years there are smaller burn piles that had household trash and all sorts of things burned in them. This is a common rural practice and it's not good. We have well water here and my grandfather died from stomach cancer and my uncle has pancreatic cancer now. So I'm very concerned about the water. ( Located in Missouri where radon is a problem (haven't tested yet) and there are several former nuclear warhead sites in the are also) hope we don't have an Erin Brockovitch situation.

Weather or not the water is causing cancer, I hate the idea of this burned up kick sitting in a river bed.

We've been doing some renovations on the house for my grandma and I've convinced them to at least take the metal , like cast iron sinks and tub to a scrap metal place. May try and get some metal junk from the dump to take also.

I'd like to be zero waste , but it's a struggle, and toxicity is also a big worry for me . As a family we do find good deals and I've always been a scavenger, saving items before they got sent to the landfill by neighbors ( when I lived in the suburbs) but the more waste you save the harder it is to keep it in good shape and it degrades and pollutes etc.


Anyway back to the main purpose of this post, what to do about the junk yard. All suggestions are helpful. Thanks

My dad still dumps in ours and burns it. Old appliances, old fuel and chemicals, CFLs, everything. There are a few other old buried dumps around the place. It makes me want to scream.

I look forward to seeing what people have to say here.

We have had a few scrap guys come pick through. A few women who like old bottles and stuff.

If I find a way to recycle something, I go scrounge the dump for it. Right now I am feeding styrofoam to worms that can digest it. Thinking of using a cement mixer to polish up old glass into “gravel” for paths, etc. It is easier for me to focus on scrounging for one material than to try to sort all of it. But so much is so degraded and covered in toxic crap, buried, or too big and dangerous to move. Family adds to it every day. I am in despair.

Fungi seems to be the closest thing to a panacea for remediation. I have considered piling the whole thing over with dead wood, throwing some mushroom slurry on, and praying. I really don’t know.

Yes, it is unfortunately a common thing in most rural areas - a large natural depression or gully on a farm filled with old corrugated sheet metal, barbed wire, machinery parts, and heaven knows what.

If there’s a metal recycling merchant nearby, maybe they’ll pick it up for free or even pay you for the metal, otherwise you may need to take it to them.

Some things can be repurposed into useful implements – old washing tubs being a prime candidate for growing herbs near the kitchen.

Knowing what your family grew/raised on the property will give a good indication of what chemicals they likely used. Maybe subtly ask them or do some snooping for old empty containers.

Historically, chemicals and materials used on farms were very nasty and varied: Agent Orange (Rainbow Herbicides), Organophosphate/Chloride Pesticides, fungicides, Arsenic/Copper/Mercury/Lead products, Creosote, lead paint, old oils/fluids and thinners, etc. Back in the 50’s to 70’s some products even included radioisotopes too!

So, any dump site could be a cocktail of nightmares. When that shit mixes in the ground and reacts with each other, who knows the consequences – it ain’t gonna be pleasant to ingest that’s for sure.

The former military sites are a big cause of concern, particularly to the water table – not just radioactivity but also all the other chemicals they use in abundance. A current issue here around some of our military and airport sites is the release of firefighting foam into waterways and pollution of the water table: per- and poly-fluoroalkyl substances (PFAS).

As a consequence, it would be more important to get a series of soil and water tests done before touching anything. If they show high levels of contamination, and given the medical history of close relatives, you may choose to scrap the idea of regenerating it.

Regenerating a large parcel of contaminated land, notwithstanding the water table, is usually done on an industrial scale. It rarely if ever becomes safe enough for growing foodstuffs – most of that land becomes ‘Conservation Land’ or ‘State Forest’, that is, short term exposure for the public removes the likelihood of litigation.

Unfortunately, regardless of ancestral and/or spiritual connections to the property, some sites aren’t worth the expense and trouble to MAYBE make safe; the future health of you and your family may depend on it.

I guess I'd be most concerned with old nasty liquids like some of the ones F mentioned.  I have a small old dump on my land but I think/hope/pray that it is mainly old metal and glass.  I'm fine with them rusting/moldering away in place.  

If it was likely to contain nastier stuff I'm thinking I'd see if I could get a quote from someone to dig it up and haul it off to infect some place farther away that is somewhat better prepared to manage it (dump, hazardous waste facility, etc).  I have no idea how much that would cost but it's probably less as a landowner than it would be for a business converting a gas station or other site with regulatory bodies involved.

A couple of thoughts.

1.  A back-hoe/excavator with a thumb on the bucket is the best way to pick through old rusty metal and junk.  Stuff gets buried over time and you don't want to be trying to dig it all out piece by piece by hand.  Use the right tool and you'll do your work in a fraction of the time.  That means renting an excavator if you plan on digging that stuff out.  Scrap metal is worth the time it takes to dig it out.  So old cars and trucks, old pieces of machinery, etc. are all good options for a scrap dealer.  They may even come out and haul it away for you for free in exchange for the metal.  But it's likely that there are all sorts of burnt plastics and other stuff covering it, so it may not be worth sifting through.  Just scoop it out, dump it in a truck and haul it away.

2.  A fungal dominant environment has been shown to break down toxins of many kinds.  Paul Stamets work in bio-remediation has isolated a number of fungal strains that break-down hydrocarbons.  Once you've cleaned away the old metal and junk, I'd excavate a foot of the soil, and then build a pile of biomass (wood chips would work great) on top of the spot.  Innoculate it with fungal spores and let nature do it's thing.

3.  The old saying is that "dilution is the solution to pollution."  But that doesn't work if there are concentrated amounts of a chemical in a spot that is leaching its toxins into the soil.  Hopefully you are not dealing with that kind of a situation -- old leaking barrels of chemical sludge.  If that is your situation, it's going to be costly to dig up the contaminated soil.  But the last thing you should do is think that if you just put a foot of clean soil on top, that the problem will go away.  

4.  If it took them 40 or 50 years to create that nightmare, its going to take a lot of effort and money to clean it up.  Take it on, one bite at a time.  Don't get overwhelmed by thinking you've got to clean it all up this summer.

I agree with getting the soil tested, find out what is in there, so you can figure out the best way to deal with it. If it's noxious chemicals, you don't want to be digging though it by hand, if it's just debris you can dig by hand if you want. I agree with Mike Jay, digging it out and doing it right might be cheaper, it's DEFINITELY cheaper than cancer. Then fungus up what is left.  Marco Banks wrote it all up very nicely :)
I'd definitely vote for find out what exactly you are dealing with.

I'm also in MO, south of you, and I cringe when I see people dump things here, and burn things that should not be burned. I was looking for a trailer to borrow, a guy said "if you unload this one, you can borrow it" he had been roofing, the trailer was full of old asphalt shingles. "Where do I take it?"  "oh, just find a ravine someplace and heave it in!"  No, NO, NO! and NO!!  

Good to meet you, neighbor! Welcome to Permies! :D

Does anyone have a suggestion for how and where to send a sample to get it tested?  I wouldn't even know what to ask for...

I've  bio-remediated old gas stations for diesel and gasoline as well as some old oil.  If the contamination was high, several feet of topsoil was removed and new fill brought in before the next step.  If it was just normal leaking (hard to believe it's OK to have leaking tanks, but it was pretty common), or after removal of top soil, we'd have several 6" holes drilled, cased and capped around the property.  We'd then add a mix of bacteria and nutrients to the ground, as well as water to soak the site and distribute the bacteria and nutrients.  Over a couple of years we'd treat it every couple of months, allowing it to drain away and oxygenate in between.  We'd take water samples from the wells and get them analyzed for diesel/gas.

Now, we had the advantage of a Phase 1 study that identified the likely contaminants, showed test results from various points on the properties and often gave us an idea of the ground structure and groundwater flow patterns.  Diesel is easier to bio-remediate (or was at the time) than gas, but all the sites were remediated after 2-5 years.  The application would take a day for each nutrient & water treatment, every couple of months, so I think it's a great way to address it.  

I don't know the bacteria or nutrients we used as they were proprietary, but if you look up the gentleman Marco mentioned, you'll probably find what you're looking for.

I really like Marco's idea of excavating and chipping, but I'd go down 3 feet if possible if it were my property.  I'd then fill it with wood chips and also whatever else the different bacteria/fungi need to thrive.  I would then inoculate it and give it lots of nutrients, mainly molasses for energy.  I'd feed it every 2 weeks for 4-6 months, then every month, giving it nutrients and water, but let it dry out somewhat between feedings to allow air to get drawn down into the soil.  You may also want to investigate adding hydrogen peroxide as an oxygenator, but you have to be careful how much you add as it can kill microbes if you add too much.

If you can't go down 3 feet, go down 1.  If you can't afford that, just do the wood chips.

Let us know how it goes.

Mike Jay wrote:Does anyone have a suggestion for how and where to send a sample to get it tested?  I wouldn't even know what to ask for...

Most environmental labs could do this and, if they can't, they can tell you who can.  I'd tell them the situation and ask them what you should be testing for.  I'd take samples from at least 4, preferably 8 spots in a circle around the site, maybe 10 yards out from the edge of the pile and one in the middle.  The middle one I'd get tested for everything and, depending on cost, I may only get the 4-8 perimeter samples tested for 1-2 chems.  This would let you know the magnitude of the issue at the source and you may be able to get a feel for which way the groundwater flows by the higher contamination of some perimeter samples.  

The lab will tell you how to collect the samples, but they'll likely need to be kept cool.  I'd try to sample from 8-10 feet below grade.  

If you want to save money, just do the one sample at the center and then test again every year.

Not sure if this is an issue or not, but it would be good to find out if any/all of the labs would report the results to a gov agency before you go ahead.  You may not want the gov to know, depending on what they may force you to do.

Thanks Timothy, great information!  Now, what if the dump site is just barely above the water line and on the edge of a boggy/swampy area?  I can't really dig down before it gets too sloppy to dig.  The water is likely leaching away stuff (gentle downstream direction is a lake).  I guess I should just call a lab and see what they recommend.  It's one of the few wet and clayey spots with nearly full sun on my property so it would be a great spot for some elderberries, currants and other water lovers.  If the water is safe.....

Reflecting a bit more on your question, as you think about bioremediation of contaminated soils, I'd encourage you to look at anything and everything that Rufus Chaney has written on the topic of phytoremediation—the use of plants to pull harmful chemicals from soil and water.  He's written about 400 papers and 200 published abstracts on the topic.

If the toxic sites are on a slope, you would want to create a habitat for botanical detox plants ON and BELOW the site.  Catch the runoff and let that water move through a plant ecosystem that you create to extract cadmium, nickel, cobalt, zinc, lead and other metals that leach from the soils.  We know a great deal about the kinds of plants that detoxify contaminated land—hyperaccumulator crops like alpine pennycress, thlaspi, dichapetalum and others.  They suck the heavy metals right out of the soil or grab them from the water that flows over the toxic site.  

Permaculture is all about maximizing the plant-human partnership.  Creating a detoxifying wetland (for example) below the dump site that is filled with reeds and other plants at "eat" toxins is a long-lasting solution to a problem that will continue to do it's work long after you've moved on.  This is called "persistent revegetation technology".  Once established, you'd be able to walk away knowing that it will continue to work in perpetuity.  

Wow so many great replies . I wish I knew how to quote the posts so I could reply to each , and thank you all.

Looks like first step will be to get some testing done (by an independent lab) soil samples , creek water samples, and we'll samples. Maybe also a radiation test to see if the nuke sites are giving the entire town cancer. ( I can't tell you how many people in Versailles have cancer , it's crazy)

There are a few other areas on the property, one where a neighbors lagoon overflows into a field , another around our lagoon, old burn sites. Property lines where neighbors spray herbicide etc. These are areas where I'd probably put in plant barriers , maybe clumping bamboo, willows , reeds, bio accumulators like you suggested. Also I've been a huge fan of Paul Stamets since highschool so if I get my mushroom farm going I could throw spent cakes and wood chips in these areas for myco filtration and remediation. Possibly use Korean Natural Farming or other bacteria, maybe probiotics or the kind made for septic tanks ..

As for the main dump I think I'll have to go and assess more. I hate going into this area , it feels so toxic and is heartbreaking for me to look at, but it's best to do it before mosquito season starts , they are really bad in this area. I'll pick through for metal and take what I can to scrap . Recycle bottles when I can ( I like old stuff so I may find some treasures as I get deeper.  Once I've hauled off all the stuff that can be done by hand ( if any of it can be) I will look into renting a backhoe or something. Dig out the area . Then plant reeds and other filter plants in the creek where it goes down stream , maybe another up stream . On the banks I will plant some bamboo or other plants to soak up water and keep the soil in tact so it doesn't spread down stream. Fill in the pit with woody debris , and maybe oyster mushrooms on straw bails , and if I grow other mushrooms the spent logs or substrate could be added. I guess build a giant bio filter. I'll also out some fencing around the area to keep livestock out.

 I'll also try and dig out old burn sites possibly. Maybe put in a concrete base and make a WOOD outdoor fireplace and not burn trash , or even a boggy pond with filter plants.. I just don't want water sitting and being contaminated, but I guess water could also be a medium for plants to remediate the area.

I just hate thinking of the entire farm probably having some level of plastic pollution , like little strings off feed bags or tarps , tiny bits of styrofoam, aluminum cans , rusty metal , cigarette butts. General trash being in the field of under them .  Even worse of course would be to find out the water and soil have radioactive or chemical pollution that makes the whole farm unliveable. In that case I'd have to consider selling the farm my father was raised on. That would be devastating . If I didn't sell I'd have to give up all my hopes and dreams of turning it into a sustainable/regenerative working farm with livestock and food production and turn it into massive bioremediation project, possibly timber or nursery production I guess , or maybe just an ornamental landscape garden for human enjoyment and wildlife habitat .

Idk when we'll get the test done but hopefully sooner than later. I guess I'll start cleaning it up before then.

The worst part is my uncle who owns half the farm (and my dad owning the other half) ((btw this is a 50%share if the entire farm not like one owns field a and the other owns field b)) is still stuck in his own ways . Maybe even more stubborn now that he's in his final months or year of life. Just the other day he wanted me to go burn some fence row overgrowth, and he had trimmed some trees on a fence row and then used styrofoam and other trash to try and burn the brush pile. Watching the styrofoam melt into the field was infuriating. The other problem is he has 4 kids none of which want to farm so idk how this will be dealt with when he's no longer with us. He and my dad got into it over him wanting to brushing and cut trees in a field and my dad (who I've mostly converted to holistic grazing) said we didn't need to do that , and let the trees grow and mob graze the field. I thought there was going to be a fist fight. Cancer has a way of really messing with people and their families, everyone is on edge and depressed and scared and all these emotions. My uncle is also 8years younger than my dad , but he stayed in Versailles and my dad moved to KC . We always had a house in Versailles also , until my grandpa passed in 2008 . Since then we moved my grandma back into the house and we stay there. I studied sustainable ag two years in college and then dropped out . Since then off and on I've done a thing here or there but since the farm is owned by both my dad and uncle trying to get the farm going again has been almost impossible. My dad recently retired and I've managed to get him 80-90% there on sustainable regenerative farming. The two of us have been there since January working on the house for my grandma who had some falls and can't use the stairs anymore. It's a huge family mess. I know I'm not the only one who's had similar struggles. Not to mention in 2017 we moved in with my great uncle on my mom's side. He's 86 and never married, and has Parkinson's.(my mom's parents both died young so he's like my grandfather. ) So we moved in with him so he wouldn't have to go to a nursing home. He lives in KC 2.5 hours away from our farm . Trying to care for two elderly relatives , two houses , one with a farm , with a 2 and a half hour drive between them , plus the added stress of cancer , my dad being retired my mom still working (both are 60 years old) .. it's been so stressful.

And of course in addition to all this family stress , the stress of upkeep on two homes and all the renovations for each home , plus the floods we've had , and other minor disasters , and every other stress you could imagine.... We have a giant junk yard to deal with.

So in someways it doesn't seem important. But it still is important to me.

Wow , I apologise for going of script and dumping all this on you poor strangers of permies. This feels more like a diary entry than a forum post. I guess I needed to get some things off my chest. Thanks for listening.

Please feel free to ignore all that stuff and only reply to the threads topic of handling a junk like or other debris and toxic spots on a farm.

Also happy to discuss the stress of dealing with family on this issue and others. Or perhaps I should find a different place to make a thread for that.


One last thought .. balancing zero waste and toxicity and general junkyness.    I've always been a scavenger who would find great things on the major trash days in the suburbs, ping-pong tables chairs etc. I love the Craigslist free section. But when you collect or save all these materials that may be useful someday , bottles , old scrap wood or metal , etc etc. When does the storage of these items become an eyesore , a toxic leeching rusting mess, a mosquito breeding ground , a junk pile. For example my dad got some old salvaged windows, he stripped the paint and sanded outside . I was very concerned that the paint was lead based, and it was sending it all over the farm . Am I too concerned with toxicity? I'm so afraid if lead , asbestos, even nano particles of plastic and heavy metals. Maybe I've become to afraid.

Sorry for the rant . I think that's it for now. Looking forward to all your thoughtful replies.

T Sousley wrote: turn it into massive bioremediation project, possibly timber or nursery production I guess , or maybe just an ornamental landscape garden for human enjoyment and wildlife habitat .

I think this is extremely valuable, easily as valuable as farming, for people to take on the huge task of restoring damaged sites.  Our place here in Texas isn't polluted, but it is seriously messed up by decades of erosion.  We probably won't be able to completely restore it in our lifetime, but we can make a start and make it better for the next people.  You could do this too, make things better, if not perfect, for future generations.

My heart goes out to you.

T Sousley wrote:

Wow , I apologise for going of script and dumping all this on you poor strangers of permies. This feels more like a diary entry than a forum post. I guess I needed to get some things off my chest. Thanks for listening.

As someone else with a messy and complex life, I send you good energy, I KNOW how hard it is.

One last thought .. balancing zero waste and toxicity and general junkyness.    I've always been a scavenger who would find great things on the major trash days in the suburbs, ping-pong tables chairs etc. I love the Craigslist free section. But when you collect or save all these materials that may be useful someday , bottles , old scrap wood or metal , etc etc. When does the storage of these items become an eyesore , a toxic leeching rusting mess, a mosquito breeding ground , a junk pile. For example my dad got some old salvaged windows, he stripped the paint and sanded outside . I was very concerned that the paint was lead based, and it was sending it all over the farm . Am I too concerned with toxicity? I'm so afraid if lead , asbestos, even nano particles of plastic and heavy metals. Maybe I've become to afraid.

That's always- a hard line to figure out. I vacillate between "I'm too afraid" and "I'm not afraid enough." The more I learn the more afraid I get, but reality doesn't deal well with that. I'm a packrat/dumpster diver/recycle type, and it takes me a LOT of effort to not drag home stuff I won't use. I try to judge toxins when I drag it home, wouldn't have brought home windows that I was concerned about lead (I know it wasn't you who did so, just talking me here, my dad would have brought them home and done the same thing yours did. And I would have cringed too.) I try to filter by "is this a known toxin to start with?" or at least "Can I remove it esaily when I am ready to?" Things like plastic coffee cans are toxic (plastic) but too useful, so I do bring them home, but they stay intact enough that I feel I can remove them as I want to. There are no good lines. You get points for realizing things need to be thought about (a LOT of people don't ever get that far) and it WILL take a while for you to figure out lines you are comfortable with, and it will change. The change is why I try to make "can be removed" part of my lines. I wouldn't pour my coffee cans into a concrete wall so they were not removable. That's where MY lines are. yours will be someplace else. Keep thinking, maybe start a thread on it to talk about how you find your own balance? Others have their own balance, far from mine.

Mike Jay wrote:Thanks Timothy, great information!  Now, what if the dump site is just barely above the water line and on the edge of a boggy/swampy area?  I can't really dig down before it gets too sloppy to dig.  The water is likely leaching away stuff (gentle downstream direction is a lake).  I guess I should just call a lab and see what they recommend.  It's one of the few wet and clayey spots with nearly full sun on my property so it would be a great spot for some elderberries, currants and other water lovers.  If the water is safe.....

That's beyond my competency, sorry.  I sure like Marco's suggestions and I'm going to look up Rufus Chaney myself.  I would guess that most farms have had several types of pollutants over the years and I think bio-remediation is a great strategy for dealing with it.

I can identify with your situations and have prayed to Jesus for resolutions so you and your Dad have control. But watch the fear and stress levels. Your fears will happen if not controlled by you. And stress will make you sick or sicker. I'm also speaking from personal experience in both cases. Beware the toxic people that push your buttons making your stress levels soar!

Marco Banks wrote:
"persistent revegetation technology"

I googled this and also found a nice article released last year about coating seeds in remediation in a Canadian Mining journal
https://www.canadianminingjournal.com/featured-article/restoration-harnessing-technology-to-improve-revegetation-outcomes/

There's an image of black eyed susans (Rudbeckia, echinacea family) and it talks about the success of coating seeds

I wonder whether the famous clay balls (encapsulated seeds, hand rolled clay) might be worth consideration

Brilliant resources you mention Marco!

So first thing, sorry to hear about all the cancer in Versailles MO. That is very disturbing.

How goes the battle? Soil tests? Radioactivity?

I was impressed with your Styrofoam worms!

A couple of thoughts:.

Is it possible to divert water around the site to some degree so that potential ground water contamination might occur at slower rates, giving phyto remediation more of an impact?
Also covering the site with dreaded plastic
I've been playing with sandwiching damaged synthetic tarps and vapor barrier to make recycled tarps ...
Perhaps berm the areas that have the worst contamination and tarp them with a minor slope to reduce rain runoff adding to the problem? Ideally that impermeable layer would be prepped underside then a layer covering it?

In Iqaluit, NU, the toxic site left by the US military when it was the Frobisher Bay post, has been recently diluting their soils to "safe" levels using the copious quantities of spent hops from NUbrew, which the beer company is thrilled to give to them free of charge.

I wonder if some sort of local bio waste byproduct may be available near you?