When you reach your lowest point, you are open to the greatest change.
-Avatar Aang
There is a time and season for everything under the sun and it does not matter how slow you move, just that you keep moving.
Dale Hodgins wrote:Many churches are sitting on quite a bit of land, that is either meant for future building of churches or old folks homes or other things associated with their work. Much of this land could be used for Community plots and other things, provided people agree to move without a fuss, when they need the land for the designated purpose.
The Catholic church in particular controls vast amounts of land in some places. So I think it's just a matter of getting good contracts made so that they know they aren't risking the loss of that land by allowing someone to use it.
When you reach your lowest point, you are open to the greatest change.
-Avatar Aang
John Kompa wrote:First, I'd like to say that I'm more than ecstatic to see other LGBT members on this site. I'm still new to the site, and to the whole permaculture/homestead/self reliance transition, so it is absolutely awesome to witness the visibility.
Second, I think opening up to the larger community is a great idea. I find that opening up the conversation about a topic and exposing ideas to each other is a great way to reach that common/middle ground. It surely doesn't hurt to try. Not sure if I added much at all, but I think your topic is a great idea!
When you reach your lowest point, you are open to the greatest change.
-Avatar Aang
Dale Hodgins wrote:Both of you fellows may find that there are still some people who are so convinced that you will burn in hell for being Who You Are, that they don't want anything to do with it. I think if you just stick to the basics of teaching good permaculture skills, you will become accepted by a larger segment of the population. When people see good work being done, most won't be overly concerned with your personal situation. Even my dad, who was raised as a hardcore Pentecostal, didn't concern himself much in later life, with the idea that he needed to be against lots of things.
If instead, it became a platform for insisting that older members of churches change their views on issues that have already been settled in the courts, I don't think that would help your cause.
When you reach your lowest point, you are open to the greatest change.
-Avatar Aang
Dale Hodgins wrote:Both of you fellows may find that there are still some people who are so convinced that you will burn in hell for being Who You Are, that they don't want anything to do with it. I think if you just stick to the basics of teaching good permaculture skills, you will become accepted by a larger segment of the population. When people see good work being done, most won't be overly concerned with your personal situation. Even my dad, who was raised as a hardcore Pentecostal, didn't concern himself much in later life, with the idea that he needed to be against lots of things.
If instead, it became a platform for insisting that older members of churches change their views on issues that have already been settled in the courts, I don't think that would help your cause.
There is a time and season for everything under the sun and it does not matter how slow you move, just that you keep moving.
John Kompa wrote:Perhaps it is naive hopefulness, but I believe exposure is the best course of action unless it would negatively impact one's personal safety.
A piece of land is worth as much as the person farming it.
-Le Livre du Colon, 1902
John Kompa wrote:
Perhaps it is naive hopefulness, but I believe exposure is the best course of action unless it would negatively impact one's personal safety.
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
Trace Oswald wrote:
I'm curious why you think that? I've never felt the need to tell anyone I'm hetero, because it doesn't have anything to do with the task at hand, which, in this case, is helping a community establish better food production.
A piece of land is worth as much as the person farming it.
-Le Livre du Colon, 1902
Trace Oswald wrote:
John Kompa wrote:
Perhaps it is naive hopefulness, but I believe exposure is the best course of action unless it would negatively impact one's personal safety.
I'm curious why you think that? I've never felt the need to tell anyone I'm hetero, because it doesn't have anything to do with the task at hand, which, in this case, is helping a community establish better food production. I don't believe anyone should need to hide who they are, but I don't see that a person's sexual identity is a very big percentage of who they are as a person, so why make it a focal point? I feel the same way about sharing my views on religion, politics, or any number of things in that type of scenario. My views and preferences work together to make me the person I am, but none of them individually are all that important.
When you reach your lowest point, you are open to the greatest change.
-Avatar Aang
Trace Oswald wrote:
John Kompa wrote:
Perhaps it is naive hopefulness, but I believe exposure is the best course of action unless it would negatively impact one's personal safety.
I'm curious why you think that? I've never felt the need to tell anyone I'm hetero, because it doesn't have anything to do with the task at hand, which, in this case, is helping a community establish better food production. I don't believe anyone should need to hide who they are, but I don't see that a person's sexual identity is a very big percentage of who they are as a person, so why make it a focal point? I feel the same way about sharing my views on religion, politics, or any number of things in that type of scenario. My views and preferences work together to make me the person I am, but none of them individually are all that important.
There is a time and season for everything under the sun and it does not matter how slow you move, just that you keep moving.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
When you reach your lowest point, you are open to the greatest change.
-Avatar Aang
Timothy Markus wrote:
First of all, you're hetero, like most people, so you're the same. Preachers aren't vilifying you. When you do something, it's always about whatever that thing is, but if you're gay, it can quickly become about that. I think that, for most people, if you get to know someone as a good person, hard worker, nice, whatever, you don't care so much when you find out they're gay (if you feel that matters).
James Landreth wrote:
A lot of people (fewer and fewer all the time luckily) think of LGBT people as being only that. They think in stereotypes, and think that that aspect of our lives is most of who we are. By exposing ourselves to people in day to day work and life we give them new contexts to see us in. It's different from heterosexuals because heterosexual people are the norm/majority. Every person knows so many heterosexual people that they don't immediately jump to any one stereotype in their mind upon hearing you're straight, if that makes sense
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
James Landreth wrote:
On another note, other members of the church have reached out to ask for advice on planting their personal properties!
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
Dale Hodgins wrote:I'm with Timothy on this stuff. It sounds like we had very similar early experiences with religion, as a means of control and trying to turn one group against another. But most churches aren't like that now.
I think we should put this part of the topic to bed before it heads to The Cider Press, and talk about all the ways to make good use of church land, people and resources to further the cause of the original poster. Let's just assume that everyone, gay or straight, purple or green would be welcome to participate.
There is a time and season for everything under the sun and it does not matter how slow you move, just that you keep moving.
Jd
When you reach your lowest point, you are open to the greatest change.
-Avatar Aang
Life on a farm is a school of patience; you can't hurry the crops or make an ox in two days.
Henri Alain
James Landreth wrote:That's a great idea. Does anybody have any other (relatively short and digestible) movie or YouTube suggestions?
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
Experimenting and growing on my small acre in SW USA; Fruit & Nut trees w/ annuals, hoping to get Chickens, rabbits, and in-laws onto property soon.
Long term goal - Furniture & Luthier Stay-at-home farm dad.
Idle dreamer
Dustin Rhodes wrote:Check out these two great ministries in terms of Christian/Permaculture intersection:
Redeeming the Dirt
Blog and book about how Christians can honor God and practice organic, sustainable farming(Permaculture) practices at the same time.
Planting with Purpose
International organization teaching low-income farmers all over the world how to farm the permaculture way to cut costs, increase production, protect the land/soil, and share the Good News.
Maybe these would be low-risk baby steps for churches to get involved in permaculture, if they're resistant to go all-in at first: they learn a bit, do some good, and then want to do more - now they're hooked for good :)
Life on a farm is a school of patience; you can't hurry the crops or make an ox in two days.
Henri Alain
Hugh Holland wrote:We are all guilty of placing people in boxes at some point.
A piece of land is worth as much as the person farming it.
-Le Livre du Colon, 1902
Come join me at www.peacockorchard.com
A piece of land is worth as much as the person farming it.
-Le Livre du Colon, 1902
Travis Johnson wrote:I don't know where the church-gay thing stems from, but it is not an issue at our church.
Our Pastor practiced gay actions before he became a Christian, and after opening up about his history, has really enlightened our congregation. We have several former gay people in our church membership, and now have two transgender people who became Christians after their conversion. His history, and understanding really paved the way for them to feel like they can be part of the church.
When you reach your lowest point, you are open to the greatest change.
-Avatar Aang
A piece of land is worth as much as the person farming it.
-Le Livre du Colon, 1902
When you reach your lowest point, you are open to the greatest change.
-Avatar Aang