Idris got too cold...

Earlier this evening, I went to check on the critters and tuck them all in. In the goat barn, one of our younger does, a Nubian (her name is Idris, after a DrWho character), maybe 7 or 8mos old was laying on her side, chilled, slow respiration, unable to stand. The barn isn't exactly right next to the house, so I tried to call John, but couldn't get through (crappy reception), so, I picked her up, closed the gate as best I could, and headed to the house, hollering for John, and praying not to stumble and fall down the hill, in the dark. He heard me, and met me in the garage, where I passed her to him, & started giving orders, "take her in the bathroom, I'll be right there", and gathered the supplies from the goat first aid kit - blanket, syringe, thermometer, nutridrench... and a small pail of feed. I joined him in the bathroom, put everything down where it would be handy, solid down to the floor and he passed her back to me. Both of these doelings are a little underweight from a bout with parasites - coccidia, back in late September/ early October that actually killed another doe (the night before Thanksgiving), that had been on the mend. We got them in September, and I think they came to us sick. I forgot to check their famacha scores, before we bought them, & didn't isolate them, so that's on me. My chubby Nigoras are doing well, though their scores have dropped a bit, since the new goats arrived, too. Ugh.

She's doing much better, now. Her respiration are back to normal, she's alert, vocal, on her feet, has scarfed down a good amount of feed, a total of 3T of drench, plus about 1/4t cayenne. But, the battery is dead, on the thermometer (grr - replacing that, tomorrow, along with a spare!), and now, she's drooling - but, I also just shoved 3 doses of drench & some cayenne down her gullet, by way of a syringe. I think they're both just weakened, and still trying to regain their weight, and recuperate. I checked their famacha scores, and gave them all a good dose of safeguard, 9 days ago, so it's too soon to give more. The barn is getting a good scrubbing, tomorrow, too. It's not in bad shape, but we just want to be sure. Then, we can close the barn up, at night, and on cooler days, to help keep them warmer, while they put on some more weight. But, beyond that, I'm not sure how to help them stay sufficiently warm, this winter. PJs are a bit controversial, and have a list of cons as long as the list of pros. There is no power, and it would not be safe to run an extension cord, much less a heater, up there. Keeping them in the house is NOT an option. I'm at a loss. It's going to get a whole lot colder, before it gets any warmer...

Carla, do they have plenty of straw to bed in?  My pigs burrow under the straw and pig pile  to stay warm.

thomas rubino wrote:Carla, do they have plenty of straw to bed in?  My pigs burrow under the straw and pig pile  to stay warm.

They do, and they'll have more, after the barn gets cleaned out, tomorrow.

When it got very cold, I used to put my goats into sweaters (old sweatshirts either adult or child size, or for the very small goats it might be cut-off sweatpant legs) and built them a little igloo out of straw bales that they could sleep in to hold body heat. I stacked up bales to goat height and put a sheet of plywood on top to make a roof so I could put bales on top for insulation. You could add a layer of blankets or an old sleeping bag between the plywood and top layer of bales to make this even warmer.

Is there any way you can make a small area for night use that physically gets the animals closer and put hay bales around it (and maybe even on top) so their own body heat will be better trapped, but be able to give them more space in the day? I'm picturing freebee packing skids screwed or tied together for example. If they were in a smaller area at night, would it be possible to carry out a lidded bucket of hot water to help?

I'm glad you managed to get Idris warmed up! We've got a duck I've similarly been worrying about and I've often been locking her up on rainy days as soon as she's been out for a little exercise. I've been wondering about parasites with her, but she's molting, so it's also possible that she just doesn't have enough under feathers right now.

For tonight, and possibly the next week or so, it looks like the 2 Nubians will be house guests, staying in the 'garage suite', until we're satisfied that they'll be OK, in the barn. That means we will be attempting to fatten them up, fast, lol. They won't be the first goats to temporarily stay in the attached garage, off the kitchen. It's convenient to us, when we have sick critters, because we can check on them in the middle of the night, in our pjs, not go out in the cold/wet, and have electricity, so we can actually see them. If all else fails, we can turn the heat on out there, too. But, it can't be all winter, so we're still going to keep working on a better solution. For one thing, the new stove is supposed to be delivered, tomorrow. Guess what path it has to travel, to be installed... Yup. So, I have to rearrange them, already. But, at least it's a viable, 'not in the kitchen or bathroom' option.

Using straw/hay bales to create an insulated cave is likely the simplest option, as mentioned.

You say an extension cord would "not be safe"...if in fact an appropriately sized cord could be acquired I have used the hard plastic "outdoor" heating pads for dogs/cats by K&H Manufacturing - they come in a multitude of sizes, are completely safe (designed for outdoor use by animals) and even have a chew deterrent wire coil around the cord.  

They can be pricey (when not on sale - or in the Warehouse Store on amazon) but can be used for a multitude of critters, especially those who are poorly in "sick bay" or as a winter heat source for fowl and livestock. I assume they could be rigged to a battery/solar set up if needed.

I have ones that have been in constant use for 15 yrs - and snap them up whenever on sale, as there is always someone who could benefit from them.

Without going into a long, drawn out post about why there can be no power, we will just have to go with the explanation that the barn is - and will probably always be offgrid.

It sounds like you have a rooming solution with your garage.    I was going to comment that once I took a 4x8 dog pen, covered it with tarps and blankets, and moved it close to the house where it could be heated.  For what it is worth we keep a Buddy lp heater for various emergencies where electricity is not available.

But, what's bothering me is that in my experience goats dont have a lot of problems with the cold.

John F Dean wrote:It sounds like you have a rooming solution with your garage.    I was going to comment that once I took a 4x8 dog pen, covered it with tarps and blankets, and moved it close to the house where it could be heated.  For what it is worth we keep a Buddy lp heater for various emergencies where electricity is not available.

But, what's bothering me is that in my experience goats dont have a lot of problems with the cold.

Generally, no, they don't, as long as they can get out of the wind and rain. Unfortunately, these 2 little does are a bit underweight, because of the coccidia they came to us with, in late September(that didn't get diagnosed until early October). Their famacha scores are improving, but it's slower than I'd like. Another thing we're doing is doubling the feed we'd been giving them. After looking at the weather, for the next week, we've decided to keep them in the garage for the next 3 nights, when it's supposed to be in the lower 20s (F). After that, it will be hanging around the mid 30s (F) for another week or so. We *can* heat the garage, but won't, while they're in there, and it's staying in the low 30s (F), in there, now, so they won't be acclimating to substantially warmer housing - just warm enough to get them over this bump. Idris (the one that was doing poorly) is GREATLY improved, this morning, and while Starling was ok, she hadn't been her usual perky self, and was crying, when John went out, for her, last night. Both were very happy to be back together. Our new stove is coming today, and they're in the middle of the path the delivery guys will have to take, but they're in a large dog xpen, that I'm going to expand with a grated panel, to give them a bit more room, as soon as I'm done with my coffee.

I'm glad you moved the two in together to the garage - everything I hear about most herbivores is that they're groupies, so it hopefully will be good for both girls to be together.

Jay Angler wrote:I'm glad you moved the two in together to the garage - everything I hear about most herbivores is that they're groupies, so it hopefully will be good for both girls to be together.

Exactly why we did it. :D

Idris died in my arms, at about 1:30, this afternoon. We have only 1 Nubian doe left. Starling seems a bit hardier than Idris, but then, so did Idris, before coccidia hit our little flock. I don't know how much more of this I can take.

I'm very sorry to hear that, Carla.

You put so much effort into trying to save her.  Heartbreaking when it doesn't succeed. I am so sorry.

Coccidia is a very nasty organism...I am so sorry about Idris, it is often hardest on the youngest.

It can be tough to eradicate, and will affect everything from dogs and cats to fowl, pigs and cattle. Cleaning and treatment of all areas (barns, gates, clothing, footwear) that may have been infected or in contact is really critical. Be aware you can carry it on your footwear, clothing, even your hands.  

The high contagion rate of Coccidia means it is often worthwhile to either fecal test or blind treat ALL birds and mammals on the property, out of abundance of caution. Changing clothes and sanitizing foot baths between areas/pens/barns/fields etc is often the best way to confine the organism and prevent spread.

If possible, you always want to quarantine any new stock upon arrival, for at least two weeks to prevent disease transmission from potential ill newcomers. This is a simple way to safeguard against all organisms, parasites, bacteria or virus that may be foreign to your land/animals.

Again, I am so sorry about Idris, I share the above not to cause further anguish, or guilt, we ALL have 20/20 hindsight. I do get that often it is impossible to provide separation, and often must be weighed against the animals mental well being (especially with a herd animal), so please don't see what I wrote as a rebuke or criticism. I do hope this scourge will end with Idris, and cause you no further heartache. Good luck.

Carla;
I'm so sorry for your heartbreak. You made her passing as peaceful as you could.
Like all things that pass, those of us that are still here, carry on.
Let your grief go and face the next day.
Remember all your friends "human & animal" still  love you.

thomas rubino wrote:Carla;
I'm so sorry for your heartbreak. You made her passing as peaceful as you could.
Like all things that pass, those of us that are still here, carry on.
Let your grief go and face the next day.
Remember all your friends "human & animal" still  love you.

Thank you, Thomas. That means the world to me...

So sorry to hear this. Losing goats is hard.