20 year old dried pinto beans ?

I am a little embarrassed here but  20 years ago I put several different kinds of dried beans in  a 5 gal plastic
paint bucket and put the lid on air tight.  Last night I soaked some pinto beans for 8 hours according to
instructions and the directions said to then simmer for 1.5 to 2 hours.   I have had my beans on low boil
now for 7 hours trying to get them soft and there has been no change in the texture for about 3 or 4 hours.
They are edible but they have some hardness that wont go away.  Several months ago the same thing happened with some of the red beans I had.  I had them simmer for 24 hours after soaking them.
There must be something that happens to the beans over time in storage.  These beans were individually
sealed in one and two pound plastic bags the way they were bought.   Has anyone else experienced this ?
They are not bad to eat but slightly less appetizing because of the texture that would cause someone to think
they were not cooked quite enough.

Scott, I am sorry to say that you have learned a valuable and expensive lesson.

Dried beans have a very short shelf life.  I am not sure what is the exact figure but I feel around six months or less.

I have some 30-year-old beans, some 5-year-old beans, etc.  I keep them for an emergency when nothing else is left.

I have read here on the forum some posts with experiments other people have done if you try to find them they are interesting.

A long soak, cooking in a pressure cooker, etc.

We have put beans in food saver bags and vacuumed the air out which has made them last a little longer.  I even put some of those in the vacuumed bags in the freezer though that did not extend their shelf.  They were still crunchy when I cooked them.

I have some dried beans I bought with a 25year life span though I have not tried them to see if that is true and if they are edible.

I feel canning the beans maybe be the only solution for dried beans.  I have not done this so I don't know though I assume the beans are cooked first then canned.

we've had several discussions here about beans that take foreeeeeeever or which have odd textures. I think in most cases it's from ancient beans, and some folks (like you) have documented long storage.
As far as I know people who do long-term storage have stock rotation systems, for some reason I'm thinking 5 years for beans, but I assume this is exactly why. I don't know what the mechanism would be, but I think after 20 years the beans can have their own reasons.
You may wish to try a bit of baking soda in the water, if you're still simmering, but I think I would just go with an application where the texture doesn't matter (mash and refry them?)

I find beans just thrown in the cupboard survive 5 years without a problem, they take a bit longer to cook, I've never tried with 20 year old ones though!.
If you have a pressure cooker you could try that as well.
Or grind them for flour.
Or turn them into eggs via chickens

I live in southern Mexico and we eat a lot of beans. We try to always buy beans from the person who grew them that way we get "fresh" dried beans, as in from the last harvest. They cook the quickest. If you buy beans in a store I'm sure they are at least 6-12 months old so probably from the previous to last harvest. They take at least 20 minutes longer in a pressure cooker and an hour longer on the stove. I guess they get drier as time goes on? So an hour longer on the stove per year? If that were true, it would mean you need to cook your beans 20 hours longer....

I think grinding them into flour would be doable if you don't want to put them in the compost. The flour can be made into cream-style bean soups or dips.

You might want to try a longer soaking time. I have found that once I start cooking them I have never really managed to fully get that "crunchy" texture out of them if they are not done in the usual time. We have been eating through our beans from 2020 (did anyone else panic-plant a bunch of storage crops?) The same beans that are given a 12-24 hr soak do a lot better than the first batch, which I treated like fresh beans.

I would love to hear your experience if you give it a go.

Melissa Ferrin wrote:

I think grinding them into flour would be doable if you don't want to put them in the compost. The flour can be made into cream-style bean soups or dips.

So long as I have land, I would not compost them. Even if I only let them grow to 4-6 inches tall and then turned them under as "green manure" and even if only 50% germinated, it seems it would be worth it to me.

"Bean sprouts" like pea sprouts and sunflower seed sprouts, are edible as an addition to salads, so before I composted, I would try that if I didn't have a place to plant them. It is possible that at 20 years old, the beans won't sprout, particularly if you live in a low humidity climate, but to me it would be worth a try.

Skandi Rogers wrote:

Or turn them into eggs via chickens

Would you soak and par-cook them first before feeding them to chickens? I know there's a chemical in dried beans that's poisonous to humans in raw dried beans. Do you know if it affects chickens?

Scott, you have offered a wonderful experiment. It seems your long-storage beans are best ground or puree'd and added to soup/stew. And even so, based on previous comments, they are still good food after 20 years. I find it hard to see this as a failure.

Jay Angler wrote:

Skandi Rogers wrote:

Or turn them into eggs via chickens

Would you soak and par-cook them first before feeding them to chickens? I know there's a chemical in dried beans that's poisonous to humans in raw dried beans. Do you know if it affects chickens?

I would yes, I don't know if they would be poisonous without that treatment or not, but I'm pretty sure my chickens would have turned their noses up at dried beans!

Skandi Rogers wrote:I find beans just thrown in the cupboard survive 5 years without a problem, they take a bit longer to cook, I've never tried with 20 year old ones though!.
If you have a pressure cooker you could try that as well.
Or grind them for flour.
Or turn them into eggs via chickens

Again, it may have something to do with what kind of beans.

What kind of beans are you cooking, Skandi?

My favorite and most used recipe for beans comes from a fantastic article in Serious Eats for cassoulet https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-make-cassoulet-chicken-food-lab-french-casserole. This is a study about the dish with LOTS of experiments with each ingredient to bring out maximum flavor and tenderness. One of these ingredients is canellini BEANS. Maximum deliciousness was achieved by soaking the beans in 1 T salt per quart of water. Author J. Kenji Lopez-Alt writes:
"I start by soaking my beans in a salty brine. Despite what you may have heard about salt preventing beans from softening properly, it actually accomplishes the exact opposite goal: salt ensures that bean skins turn tender.
Bean skins are held together by pectin, a sort of organic glue. Buttressing this pectin are magnesium and calcium ions. It takes a lot of work to take these down. But in the course of an overnight soak, some of those magnesium and calcium ions will get replaced by sodium ions. These guys are sort of like the double agents of the ion world. The beans will seem firm at first, but as soon as you start cooking them, those sodium ions reveal that they are not nearly as good at keeping pectin strong as the magnesium or calcium. Your bean skins will soften in record time and cook more evenly in the process."
I'm sure neither J. Kenji Lopez-Alt or I have ever used 20 year old beans but his extended salt soak might just work for your pinto beans. Worst case, you'll have an amazing recipe for the ultimate bean casserole.

I'd like to point out that if 20-year-old beans are "edible" but not a wholly pleasing texture, this is still a food storage success story.  In my opinion beans (ideally stored in glass) are one of the absolute best "store it and forget it" foods for preparing against future food insecurity.  In that use, I'm not 100% worried about texture; if I'm hungry, I won't care, or I'll be motivated to mash and refry the cooked beans, or put them through a Foley Food mill, or whatever I need to do.

That said, I've eaten a lot of old beans (none quite this old!) and I have yet to meet any that could not be defeated by a pressure cooker.  Even if you've tried pressure cooking for the recommended 14 minutes (or whatever) normally suggested for your kind of dried bean, there's no law preventing you from cooking them longer in the pressure cooker.  I had some garbanzo beans that were cooking up too crunchy to make hummus, so I cooked them again for an hour in my electric pressure cooker (very energy efficient, I wouldn't have wanted to burn that much expensive stove gas) and they were as creamy as you might hope for.  I'll bet that decades-old pinto beans would yield to that treatment also.

My guess is that long storage may degrade some of the nutritional value of the phytochemicals and such, and long cook times probably degrade a bit more.  But when I eat beans it's mostly the starch and fiber I'm after, and those should come through just fine.

I am sorry I forgot to add in my message that the beans were ultimately delicious and have been mostly gobbled up even though 20 years old.  I did cheat however and this is how.   I took one quarter of the cooked but still slightly crispy beans and put in the blender and blended to smooth paste.  To the paste I added
about a half pound of fried ham slices and blended that into the paste for an abundance of ham flavoring.
When I then mixed the bean-ham paste back into the slightly crispy beans it was very difficult to notice
the slight crispyness of the beans and the taste of the ham was out of this world with everyone wondering how in the world so much ham taste could be transfered from just throwing a ham bone in the pot while cooking.
The beans were eaten on both rice and with cornbread.   Indeed these 20 year old beans were a huge
success.   I will next try cooking with my pressure cooker to compare but my secret weapon now is blending the ham meat into the bean paste.

Like Dan and Scott have mentioned... it sounds like refried beans or hummus is the best way to use them

One year I ground up some dried pinto beans as I read that was a way to make "instant" refried beans.

Then I read here on permies about the dangers of eating uncooked beans so these ground beans are still on a shelf waiting for when everything else is gone.  I just know to cook them before making instant refried beans.

Anne Miller wrote:
What kind of beans are you cooking, Skandi?

All sorts, pinto, butter, red kidney, haricot. Probably some others but I would have forgotten their names by the time I got round to using them (I don't store them in their bags but in old jars)

Dan mentioned that he keeps his beans in glass jars so maybe that is a key factor to having them last longer.

Anne Miller wrote:Then I read here on permies about the dangers of eating uncooked beans so these ground beans are still on a shelf waiting for when everything else is gone.  I just know to cook them before making instant refried beans.

I did some reading about that today. It appears that the toxic chemical is destroyed by cooking, so if you "cook" the ground beans, they should be safe. I didn't have time to do a thorough search, so I still don't know how long bean flour needs to be cooked to be safe. I don't actually have any myself at this time, so I was prepared to do more searching later. The compound that tends to cause "gas" is not the same one, and normally it's the one that appears to be leached out by the soaking - maybe - it wasn't very clear beyond them being two different compounds. So I'm still wondering if bean flour would tend to give more gas than if the beans were soaked and cooked first.

Anne Miller wrote:Dan mentioned that he keeps his beans in glass jars so maybe that is a key factor to having them last longer.

I don't think so?  My affinity for glass is mostly about rodent control.  And also that way if anything comes in that's got bug eggs already in it, the buggy infestation is contained in one jar.  I haven't had that happen with legumes, but I have with grains and noodles.  

Dan Boone wrote:

Anne Miller wrote:Dan mentioned that he keeps his beans in glass jars so maybe that is a key factor to having them last longer.

I don't think so?  My affinity for glass is mostly about rodent control.  And also that way if anything comes in that's got bug eggs already in it, the buggy infestation is contained in one jar.  I haven't had that happen with legumes, but I have with grains and noodles.  

Anne may be right - I think one of the reasons beans get less able to absorb moisture is they can actually dry out tooooo... much. Glass helps the humidity stay constant, and doesn't allow gas exchange. A lot more can leak through plastic at the atomic level than many people realize, for example, dried apples that I stored in a plastic jar with a metal lid, went soggy (I'm in a high humidity environment) and the ones I stored in a glass jar with a metal lid stayed just as crisp as the day I put them in there.

Jay Angler wrote:

Dan Boone wrote:

Anne Miller wrote:Dan mentioned that he keeps his beans in glass jars so maybe that is a key factor to having them last longer.

I don't think so?  My affinity for glass is mostly about rodent control.  And also that way if anything comes in that's got bug eggs already in it, the buggy infestation is contained in one jar.  I haven't had that happen with legumes, but I have with grains and noodles.  

Anne may be right - I think one of the reasons beans get less able to absorb moisture is they can actually dry out tooooo... much. Glass helps the humidity stay constant, and doesn't allow gas exchange. A lot more can leak through plastic at the atomic level than many people realize, for example, dried apples that I stored in a plastic jar with a metal lid, went soggy (I'm in a high humidity environment) and the ones I stored in a glass jar with a metal lid stayed just as crisp as the day I put them in there.

Well, that all makes sense!

I've had a lot of experience with years-old beans and you've already heard most of it already.

1. I soak them for 48 hours, changing water once or twice a day. I let it go until the water shows a few bubbles on top indicating that they are starting to ferment.
2. Rinse and pressure cook for up to 40 minutes, depending on the size and age of the bean.

I plan to try the salt water soaking idea next time. Thank you for that. Hmm. This could be a good way to inhibit any potential bacterial critters I don't want growing and allow only the lactobaccilus to grow. I like that and I may even add a little bit of fermentation juice from my fridge pickles to get things rolling.

With old beans, soaking and stove top cooking didn't work for me. It requires pressure cooking to get them softened enough. I let one batch go on the stove for over a day and it didn't soften. I tried eating some of the still crunchy beans and my digestion had a fit over it. I wouldn't want a repeat of that.

Good luck with your experiments.

I have grown beans for many years. I find fresh beans (in the first year) are so much tastier and vital than even 1 year old plus beans. I don't even like them much at 3 years. I usually store them in 1 gallon glass jars with tight fitting lids, but still I notice them losing vitality after a year. The one year beans also srpout better and grow better than 3 year old beans. Again, they just seem to have more vitality.  I have never had store bought beans that taste as good as my home grown beans, but I have purchased beans from other organic farmers who's beans taste great.  It was mentioned that beans have constituents in them that can be problematic, but soaking for a minimum of overnight (I usually soak 12-24 hours) and cooking them thoroughly helps to remove the phytates, lectins and enzymes that seeds such as beans contain.  The following information on these constituents is taken from an article on reactions to corn that I wrote, but it is pertinent here too. The whole article is rather long and the rest of the article not listed below does not relate to beans. I have only included data that has some relationship to the phytates, lectins and enzymes found in seeds, including beans. If you are interested in the corn article in total you can find it at https://youarethehealer.org/corn-allergy-and-intolerance/:
Phytates
Phytate, or phytic acid is mostly found in the outer hull of seeds. It is in a variety of plant products with them predominating in  whole grains, beans, and also found in nuts. Any actual food item that could be used as a seed to grow a new plant is suspect of having a lot of phytic acid.

Phytic acid is the primary storage compound of phosphorus in seeds. It is strongly negatively charged and the phosphate in phytic acid strongly binds to metallic cations of calcium, iron, postassium, Magnesium, Manganeese and Zinc, making them insoluble and thus unavailable as nutritional factors. Phytate mainly accumulates in protein storage vacuoles as globoids, predominantly located in the aleurone layer (wheat, barley and rice) or in the embryo (corn). During germination, phytate is hydrolysed by endogenous phytase(s) and other phosphatases to release phosphate, inositol and micronutrients to support the growing seedling.

The process of fermentation, and sprouting can be used to remove phytate from corn and other seeds. Nixtamalization of corn has also been shown to reduce phytates.

Enzyme Inhibitors
Just as seeds contain phytates, they also contain enzyme inhibitors. These enzyme inhibitors inhibit seeds from sprouting but they also inhibit our digestive enzymes. This can lead to all manner of mild or serious digestive problems. These enzyme inhibitors prevent the seeds from sprouting until just the right conditions come along. The right conditions are usually water, warmth, and slight acidity such as found during fermentation. So, just as with phytates, soaking, or fermentation can remove enzyme inhibitors.

Lectins
I mentioned above that corn has been found to contain prolamins called Zein, that cause allergy reactions similar to gluten. They are lectins and it is important to know that humans can be benefited or made ill by different types of lectins. Lectins are carbohydrate-binding proteins that are present in both plants and animals. The prolamin lectin in corn appears to be causing an allergic reaction in some people. They are known to interact  with the brush border of the intestine (which may impact cell viability and/or barrier function in addition to allowing transport of the toxic lectin into the body); and they are biologically active once they enter the body.

Most grains contain a prolamin similar in structure to gluten, and zein, such as orzenin in rice or avenin in oats. These prolamins contribute to the cross-reactivity experienced by so many with a gluten sensitivity, and yet grains that contain them are often used as gluten-free alternatives.

Besides corn, lectins are found in other grains, (especially wheat and wheat germ), quinoa, rice, buckwheat, oats, rye, barley, and millet, all legumes, including dried beans, soy and peanuts contain these potentially toxic lectins. Dairy is another source and some think this is due to feeding cows/goats grains rather than being entirely grass fed.

Secretory IgA binds lectins and protects us from them, but some people do not make secretory IgA, and some mycotoxins which are too often associated with corn and other grains, have been shown to decrease production of secretory IgA.

There is data suggesting that lectins are also inactivated by soaking, sprouting, cooking (high temps like boiling) and fermenting.

Soak 'n' Freeze:
(I haven't tried this technique on seriously old beans, but I'll toss it out there in case others would like to experiment and share results.)

Ever since I tossed a bag of soaked raw beans into the freezer since I didn't have time to cook them, I've made it my standard bean cooking procedure.
What I discovered was that those frozen beans cooked in a fraction of the time they would have needed otherwise. No texture issues either, but I'm pretty sure they were way fresher than 20 years old. I'm guessing the ice that formed inside them broke down the cellular structure and this sped up the softening.

I've been using up the old beans I keep finding in the sprawling pantry spaces of this giant off-grid cabin we find ourselves in.

Hot soaking seems to work: I use the water we keep hot on the wood stove so it's 60-80C when I pour it over the beans. If they are very old I let the pot sit on the hot stove and maybe even boil it a little. Sometimes I salt the water (I think the salt-stops-beans-cooking myth is likely a myth -- I have seen scientistic experiments that show the opposite.)

After (1 to 18) hours the beans often look different, wrinkly or swollen or whatever, depending on how dehydrated they are and maybe the size or type.

Then I drain and rinse thoroughly (phytates be gone!), cover in cold clean water and simmer until they start to get tender.

A bit of baking soda tossed in at the end seems to soften even the hardest beans. (Again I have seen science-like experiments purporting to confirm this.) I don't let them sit in it long before a final cold water rinse.

I generally make a big batch and keep them sealed in the cold room for a day or so, adding them to soup, curry, fried onions&rice, etc, as I like and where they get a little more cooking time if they need it.

Enzyme supplements are a big help for the sensitive -- I can even eat a little wheat and cow cheese from time to time now.

Hot rinsing or "blanching" rice in a similar manner is also supposed to be good for maximal nutrition (I saw that article on phys.org and there was actual science.)