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"Land Safe" Flea and Worm Treatment

 
gardener
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Location: Pembrokeshire, UK
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Hi all,

I've just taken my dog to the vet for her yearly round of booster jabs. I had a brief chat with the vet about flea and worm treatment as my dog receives neither, for good reason: I believe that they are extremely harmful for the ecosystem and shouldn't be used prophylactically. To my pleasant surprise, the vet agreed with me and mentioned a recent study that links organo-phosphates in rivers and waterways with flea treatment on dogs - the treatment was washing off in the rain, or when dogs swam in the rivers. Organophosphate is damaging to aquatic life and to any mammals or birds that are using the water, including us.

It got me thinking: if I wanted to treat my dog for fleas, or for worms (and there are high levels of a dangerous lung worm where I live), what could I use that wouldn't be damaging?

Many flea treatments are neonicotinoids, a class of pesticide known to be incredibly damaging to bee populations. The "spot on" flea treatments are then rubbed or washed off as the dog or cat moves around the landscape.

Worm treatments are often excreted and the widespread use of anti-wormers in livestock is believed to be a major contributing factor to invertebrate decline. The cow poop is no longer a suitable home for bugs, nor a foraging ground for reptiles, birds and mammals, as the worms are dead and the "higher" organisms (in the food chain) are poisoned or starved. If I wanted to treat my dog for worms, semi-regularly, I'd like to do so without inadvertently spreading vermicide around too!

Does anyone else worry about this? Has anyone found any products that solve the problem?
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steward
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Location: USDA Zone 8a
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Our pets have never had a problem with either though I have read that DE is what folks here on the forum use:

https://permies.com/t/307/organic-war-fleas
 
Rusticator
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Location: Missouri Ozarks
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This recipe was inspired by what I know about repelling fleas naturally.  I know which scents they don't like so I used those in this product.  I've adapted the recipe since I first made it a couple years ago.

5 drops of Lavender
5 drops geranium
3 drops lemon eucalyptus (or citronella)
3 drops of Cedarwood
2 drops of Lemongrass
5ml argan oil
2.5  - 3T tablespoons of carrier oil (sweet almond, jojoba, fractioned coconut )

12-16 ounce spray bottle (use a 16-ounce bottle if this mixture is too strong)
The more essential oils I use, the fewer drops I'll add to prevent the scent from becoming overwhelming.



Charlie hates the spray sound, so I dilute it in a couple T more carrier oil, and space a few drops along her back, as needed - about 2x/week.
 
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Feeding garlic has help with worms for our cat in the past, though it probably shouldn't be a regular part of their diet.  My cats sleep in my bed and putting fresh sprigs of rosemary under the sheets has helped with early flea infestation.   I don't see any reason that wouldn't work with other bedding. Both of those are more targeted solutions.

If it's not too hot and dry there, a variety of commercial products have nematodes that will target the larval stages of a lot of insects. Usually it's sold to deal with lawn eating grubs, but I believe they can also kill fleas and ticks.  When our weather and timing cooperates here we even see a reduction in fire ants.
 
pollinator
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Garlic, along with other alliums, is toxic to cats so I'd be really careful about using it. It causes hemolytic anemia and symptoms don't show up right away.

What clouds this issue is some people say a little is ok and has the benefits of killing parasites and fleas while others say absolutely no garlic is safe. I don't know of a good way to test the theory without risking my cats.

Has anyone given their cats DE internally for parasites?
 
Carla Burke
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I've not tried it with cats but, I do give Charlie (my Cavalier) a small amount of garlic, daily. I've taken a raw feeding certification course, and checked in with several holistic vets, and at least for dogs, the 'poison' is in the dose. Charlie weighs about 15lbs, and I make her food in big batches that I dehydrate, for shelf stability. One batch lasts roughly 6wks, and I use 1 whole raw bulb, peeled and minced, for each batch. So, I'd say, it would be about 1/4 clove/day. The reason I don't remember about cats, is that I don't have any, so I've forgotten. I'll see if I can dig into my notes from school, to see if the same applies for them. It might take me a day or two.
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Charlie, letting me know she's bored!
Charlie, letting me know she's bored!
 
gardener
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Location: Central Indiana, zone 6a, clay loam
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I've not used it for dogs, but I give my chickens Molly's Herbal worm formulas and have been really happy with that. It can be used for many different animals, dogs included. Not sure if it's okay for cats. You can read more about it here: https://mollysherbals.com/Herbal-Worm-Formulas_c_14.html

As for fleas, daily flea combing helps, though can be a bit tedious. Making sure you have a good comb is important. The metal ones work way better than flimsy plastic.  Not only can the combing get rid of the ones you find and prevent them breeding, it helps you know whether your other efforts are effective and if you need to change something before it gets out of hand. Definitely regular vacuuming to make sure they don't establish in the house, since that can be a real nightmare. My vet recommended having a separate area, preferably outside, to keep shoes during flea season to ensure that I don't bring them into the house. I found that adding a vitamin B supplement to my cat's raw food diet really helped her skin, coat and energy levels. I have read that this makes them more resistant to parasites and that the fleas don't like the smell. I don't know that it actually repelled them, but it seems good for her regardless. I think the raw diet alone helps a great deal too, as she's just been far healthier and more resilient since I switched her.
 
Luke Mitchell
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Thanks for all the replies.

Something that I forgot to mention was how my vet said that fleas aren't really a problem for dogs - more an I convenience for their owners. Apparently puppies with fleas will often become anaemic but once they are older and stronger it usually isn't a problem. A household without cats is also much less likely to have fleas (her words!).

Whilst I'm not so concerned about flea treatment because of this, the essential oil method does sound great. It wouldn't hurt the doggy smell either! I might try mixing up a batch with some oils that we have.

I am quite scared about using garlic on my dog as it is always listed as toxic. Carla, do you have any articles or research papers that you can link to? It would certainly be a convenient vermicide if I knew it was safe.

Thanks all
 
Heather Sharpe
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Luke Mitchell wrote:Something that I forgot to mention was how my vet said that fleas aren't really a problem for dogs - more an I convenience for their owners. Apparently puppies with fleas will often become anaemic but once they are older and stronger it usually isn't a problem. A household without cats is also much less likely to have fleas (her words!).

They're quite an inconvenience for humans. Horrid house guests. They can be a serious problem for dogs and cats with flea allergy dermatitis too. My cat has it and it is awful. Just a couple bites puts her in a miserable state. It made her insanely itchy to the point she clawed her skin open and could have gotten secondary infections. Her ears, eyes and nose were all runny and gunky to the point she was wheezing. She was really lethargic as well. I knew she had some fleas that I was working hard to get in check, but the other symptoms made me think something else had to be really wrong. The vet said it was a flea allergy and sure enough, once we got rid of them, all the other symptoms disappeared immediately and her skin was able to finally heal. I don't know how common the allergy is, but definitely something to be aware of.

I'd be really curious to know why your vet said a house without cats was less likely to have fleas. Did they mean as compared to one with dogs only? Did she happen to explain why she believes that?
 
Carla Burke
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Here are some links about the pros & cons of garlic for dogs. While many - maybe most - are also from sellers of animal supplements, pretty much anything you get voicing the other side of the debate will also be from sellers of... stuff. Judy Morgan, DVM (closing in on 40yrs as a vet), is one of the more well known vets who advocate for garlic. As she has been preparing for her retirement from actual practice, she's set up a you tube channel, as well as Instagram and Facebook accounts, to keep in touch, and keep helping people advocate for their pets health, and has developed a line of treats, supplements, foods, books, etc. I'd look her up, but I'm warning you - it's a long, deep rabbit hole, lol.

Here are those links that I've collected, but there are many more...

https://www.vetinfo.com/garlic-for-dogs-fleas.html

https://blog.adoredbeast.com/garlic-for-dogs-a-great-idea-or-a-no-go/

https://www.petguide.com/health/dog/the-shocking-truth-about-dogs-and-garlic/

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/garlic-for-dogs-poison-or-medicine/

https://dogsfirst.ie/raw-garlic-for-dogs/

https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/care/the-many-benefits-of-garlic-for-your-dog/

https://www.pethonesty.com/blogs/blog/is-garlic-safe-for-dogs

https://nolongerwild.com/garlic-for-dogs/

https://dukesnaturals.com/6-great-benefits-of-garlic-for-dogs/

https://petsnary.com/benefits-of-garlic-for-dogs/

 
Anne Miller
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When I first read not to feed garlic I was concerned because I like garlic and my dog eats what I eat so I did some research and posted what I found:

Garlic might be good for us, but dogs metabolize certain foods differently than we do. According to the Merck Veterinary Manual, garlic and other members of the allium family, including onions, contain thiosulfate, which is toxic to dogs but not to humans.



https://permies.com/t/86447/Dogs-Eat-Garlic-Onion
 
Carla Burke
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Anne Miller wrote:When I first read not to feed garlic I was concerned because I like garlic and my dog eats what I eat so I did some research and posted what I found:

Garlic might be good for us, but dogs metabolize certain foods differently than we do. According to the Merck Veterinary Manual, garlic and other members of the allium family, including onions, contain thiosulfate, which is toxic to dogs but not to humans.



https://permies.com/t/86447/Dogs-Eat-Garlic-Onion



I believe that has been quoted in at least a couple of those links I included, above, as well. Unfortunately, many sites stop there, and don't go further into their research, to discover that the doses it takes to make a dog sick, using raw garlic (powdered is too concentrated & not standardized, to be able to measure for safety), would be roughly the equivalent to a human eating (daily) a couple whole, raw heads of garlic, and is based on a single study of four dogs given large amounts, daily, for a week. Many only skim through a single summary of a single study, and don't take into account the information left out, including the details of the study. I also believe that's a big part of why garlic is (and so many other things are) so controversial.
 
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