railway sleepers, how dangerous are they?

Today a few of the railway guys that work here gave us, even brought them to our house for us to use, 20 beams. they are very inspirational and i can think of 220 ways to use them but I know they're poisonous! Can we use them in our garden? Is there any safe way to treat them and use them or should we silently get rid of them (we have children )? thanks for any feedback!

Are they "used", ie. old and taken out of service? If so they will be far less "active" than new ones. I'm sure you're searching "railroad ties, garden OR children" and finding lots of opinions; a couple three hours of sifting may clarify things. Old ones have always been used for landscaping by anybody that could get them. I have seen them around "everywhere" and played on them (old ones) in gardens when I was a kid. No certified expertise on whether they affect nearby veggies; to me it looks like by the time they're taken out of service whatever was going to leach out has gone and the only possible way to get any remaining chemicals would be for plant roots to directly contact the treated wood.

Rufus

what kinda timber are they
Traditionaly in australia they are made out of hardwood and not treated Our hardwoods are denser than yours
eg eucaliptus;;caldumensis, melliodora,sideroxolin etc
do they use black locust in usa ?;they should

In NZ, I think the problems with sleepers are generally from old, rather than new: fuel/toxic gunk spilt from trains, the creosote used to help preserve them (probably more an issue with pretty old sleepers, but it's nasty stuff) and the hardcore herbicides used along railway lines.
As far as I know, these toxins can be present in quite high levels.
I assume they're old?
I'll be very interested in other's responses...I use all sorts of stuff many people won't, but I don't have kids.
I think this is one thing I'd be quite wary of around children.

Thanks for the replies. It's difficult to find 'real' facts about these things. The beams that where given to me are old creosote treated beams.
I live in Portugal and under European pressure all these beams have to be replaced with concrete as they have been given the label 'highly dangerous' which is how I'm treating them for now. But it's so funny how these laws work, because they are being replaced, removed and than spread to everybody to use or if nobody wants them they are being resold for 20 euro each at wood shops...the railway guys that brought them said 'don't worry, the creosote wore out a long time ago' and they weren't wearing any protective clothing while removing them....everybody here (close to the railways) is building sheds and putting them in their vegetables patches,
(so what a silly law because if they are that dangerous, now, with these new laws, they are even more dangerous) people are very happy that they got them for free and when I try to get any info online I get get anything from extremely dangerous to nothing even close to a hazard. They are really nice and very useful. Would sanding them with the right protective clothing help?

I would not create sawdust from those potentially hazardous stuff, If you are going to use them use them as they are. Maybe use a table saw to cut of 1/3inch.

Here are a few opinions.

The US EPA... http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/factsheets/chemicals/creosote_prelim_risk_assess.htm

Newspaper story... http://www.houstonpress.com/2007-12-06/news/toxic-town/full/

Another article.... http://ezinearticles.com/?Log-and-Wood-Preservatives---Creosote&id=1792559

Thanks for those links. A bit of an eye opener. The story about the town is sobering and shameful. And it says something very strongly about how we as individuals just go along to get along with authority and money and stick our heads in the sand when something threatens the status quo, especially the financial status quo. And about the total failure (or lack of) institutional safe guards to balance our natural ostrich tendencies - at least in Texas.

It's tragic but also disconcerting because of what it says about how we act. People seem to require pain and death - lots of it - before we face up to much less act on unpalatable issues.


Rufus

How to know if they are toxic? From what I've read, they are not all made with creosote

Jordan Beaupré wrote:How to know if they are toxic? From what I've read, they are not all made with creosote

I hope they have found a better preservative chemistry, but I haven't seen it so far. And certainly not in the surplus market. All the railway ties (sleepers) I have seen are still preserved with coal tar creosote, which IMO should not come anywhere near a food growing area. My 2c.

A trail crew member the year before I worked in Olympic used his mouth to remove his gloves a few times while moving railroad ties. From what I heard, this was the presumed cause of subsequent permanent brain damage. I would not use them in any landscape I am stewarding.

I don't think there is a single, easy answer to this question.

In the UK sleepers come in several varieties:

- old, oak sleepers, often untreated but sometimes full of coal-tar creosote
- old, tropical hardwood sleepers (jarrah, azobe) which are never treated and will last forever
- old, softwood sleepers which are always treated with coal-tar creosote
- new, oak sleepers, may be pressure-treated ("tanalised" or "green treated") or not
- new, softwood sleepers which are always pressure-treated and will rot out very quickly

I would not use any treated timber near my food-growing areas, nor somewhere it will come into frequent contact with skin (human or dog, in my case!).

Anything treated with creosote I would, additionally, be cautious about using near a water source due to the risk of contamination. It's pretty common for creosote to be used to treat fence posts around here and, whilst a few of my posts are treated (they were 2nd hand), I am careful about where I have sited them.

My recommendation would always be to use a naturally durable timber (e.g. larch, cedar, douglas fir, oak, chestnut, elm, alder, locust/robinia, many tropical hardwoods) and avoid the chemical nastiness, if at all possible.

Brain damage from ties?
Never knew this issue so dire.

I've found out it is actually old guardrail posts from the roads that I got. From searching on internet, these would be like treated wood with CCA. Seems ok at quick glance (not great, will avoid near garden). I've also got some left not used. I am wondering what I'm gonna do with that.

Former Rodale’s editor and health science journalist Mike McGrath talks about creosote (often used on railroad ties):

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-bet-your-garden/id1438148749?i=1000662105707