• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • John F Dean
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Leigh Tate
  • Devaka Cooray
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Matt McSpadden
  • Jeremy VanGelder

What is the secret to getting tomato seeds to germinate?

 
Posts: 19
Location: Utah County
5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've gardened for a few years and can grow most plants from seed just fine--both by making starts and by direct sowing. But somehow, I have a 0% success rate of making tomato seeds germinate in any environment: More water, less water, warmer, cooler, deeper, shallower, soaked, not soaked, direct sow, starts, indoor, outdoor, different varieties, different suppliers--Zero plants have poked up.

All of the how-tos I've read online are basically the same instructions you see for any other seed (instructions that work for most seeds I've tried). Is there some extra trick to make tomatoes work? Is there some way to narrow down what might be wrong? I'd like to stop relying on purchasing starts.
 
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Heat is one tip for tomatoes. I'm not an expert. This is what works for me. Tomatoes are one of the few seeds I don't soak. I just didn't have good germination when I soaked tomato seeds.  If they are older seeds you can put them on a damp paper towel. Keep it in a warm place like on top of the refrigerator, or a grow heat mat.  If it's a new seed I don't bother with that step. I use a good fine seed starting mix. I wet the mix before I put it in the pot. I don't think the container really matters. You name it I have probably tried it. The only one I don't like are peat pots. They don't break down in my environment and strangle the roots.  The fastest germination I had was with 3/4" soil blocks. I think it's mostly because it is so small it gets more heat?  Not sure.  The seed is very small so not much soil, or this year I sprinkled vermiculite on top.  Keep moist, but not soggy. I keep my containers in a tray that has a top that keeps the humidity high.  As soon as the seedlings emerge remove the heat mat and use a grow light.  Keep watered.  Once the seedlings have 2 true leaves you want to transplant it if it's in a small pot using a more balanced potting soil. I use organic compost mixed with organic potting soil. If you have a large container remove some of the seed mix and add the potting soil, or if you don't want to do that feed it with a week liquid fertilizer. The seed starting mix has no nutrients. It doesn't need to. Once your seedlings have true leaves they will need access to nutrients.  
I don't know if any of this will help.  Good luck. Don't give up, you will figure out what works best for you, and have amazing tomatoes.
 
Posts: 487
43
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Take a nice tomato from your favorite plant and throw it in the garden where you want a plant next year. I get volunteer tomato plants every year this way, and they always outperform transplants.
 
Posts: 122
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Josh

Earlier this spring I had a roma tomato from the grocery start to go bad. This is what I did.

I had a styrofoam food container that you would get for a "doggy bag" no separators in it. I mixed up a cpl handfuls of sphagnum peat moss with 1/2 a handful of both coarse vermiculite and medium or fine perlite. I wet the mixture as I mixed it until it held a shape from clenching it in my hand, no water dripped from it. Those containers are not very deep, I only put  1/2 - 3/4" soil in no packing it down just smoothed and evened it out.
I cut the tomato in half and squeezed juice, gelatin and seeds straight on top of the soil, probably 50 seeds. I took a chopstick and tried to spread them around and then held some of the same soil medium in prayerhands and worked my hands back and forth until it covered the seeds. Lightly spreading and patting the surface until in was level again. I took a quart sprayer and set it to misting or slightly more and just coated the top of the soil. no puddling or saturated wet look. I closed the lid and waited 2 days, on the third day I noticed some moldy looking fungi starting to sprout up like a little plant, like fibers. I took cinnamon powder and sprinkled it across the entire container, not heavy but noticeable. I then took another prayerhand full of soil across the entire container, maybe 1/8" and lightly sprayed with water again. closed it for 2 days. on the 3rd day I had sprouts, by the end of a week I had 25 sprouts, i left the containers lid open from this point.By the end of another i had 40+ sprouts. I began to contemplate which to thin out. When I thinned them with needle pruners I didn't even pick out, I covered the fallen with another 1/8 - 1/4" of soil. In the end I had 9 strong and health seedlings I transplanted into 3" cups with help from the same chopstick. Once a week i fed them with compost tea , just set them down in the tea in a plastic container, no top watering. 3 weeks I up-potted them into 4".

I'm sure this will work for any seeds just about and it was so much easier than trays.

Hope this helps if you try it. Goodluck
 
gardener
Posts: 505
Location: WV
166
kids cat foraging food preservation medical herbs seed
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I either use a seed starting mix or promix as I picked up several bales on clearance a few years ago and have pretty good luck with tomatoes. Since I usually start them around the first week of April I use a heat mat since house temperatures remain around 65 degrees.  I start with slightly damp mix and after the seeds are planted I cover them with approximately 1/4" of soil and water gently.   The plastic domes that come with seed starting trays come in useful as they keep the soil surface from drying out too much as opposed to no cover.  I put them under grow lights and remove the domes as soon as I see  plants popping up.

I usually get germination in 3-5 days. This year however,  I'm participating in a tomato trial and one variety took around around ten days for the first seed to germinate and had sporadic germination for the next 28 days.  I only had one variety that didn't germinate this year and it was seed I'd received in a trade.  

I also do not soak or germinate in paper towels anymore as I grow too many for that.  However if you're just growing a small amount of seed, that's a great way to determine what's germinated and what hasn't.  

Do you have a friend or neighbor who grows great tomato plants from seed?  Maybe you can work out a deal where they will grow plants for you in exchange for you growing plants they have difficulty with.

Good luck to your future tomato growing ventures!
 
Michelle Heath
gardener
Posts: 505
Location: WV
166
kids cat foraging food preservation medical herbs seed
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I either use a seed starting mix or promix as I picked up several bales on clearance a few years ago and have pretty good luck with tomatoes. Since I usually start them around the first week of April I use a heat mat since house temperatures remain around 65 degrees.  I start with slightly damp mix and after the seeds are planted I cover them with approximately 1/4" of soil and water gently.   The plastic domes that come with seed starting trays come in useful as they keep the soil surface from drying out too much as opposed to no cover.  I put them under grow lights and remove the domes as soon as I see  plants popping up.

I usually get germination in 3-5 days. This year however,  I'm participating in a tomato trial and one variety took around around ten days for the first seed to germinate and had sporadic germination for the next 28 days.  I only had one variety that didn't germinate this year and it was seed I'd received in a trade.  

I also do not soak or germinate in paper towels anymore as I grow too many for that.  However if you're just growing a small amount of seed, that's a great way to determine what's germinated and what hasn't.  

Do you have a friend or neighbor who grows great tomato plants from seed?  Maybe you can work out a deal where they will grow plants for you in exchange for you growing plants they have difficulty with.

Good luck to your future tomato growing ventures!
 
pollinator
Posts: 261
Location: Central Virginia, Zone 7.
81
trees chicken food preservation bee solar composting
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was an active participant for many years at Tomatoville dotcom.  *Everyone* had their own method for germination.  Some would insist their way was the best.  Bottom line:  All the methods worked.

I soak mine for two days, in water with a pinch of Miracle-Gro .  Then into individual seed tray compartments filled with pre-moistened seed starting mix.  After 3 days sitting in a warm room, they're up and I move them to grow lights or outside.

And don't forget to wear a ball cap 90 degrees sideways til germination.  Or at least  flip your shirt collar up.  That stuff pleases the tomato gods.

 
Josh McDonald
Posts: 19
Location: Utah County
5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
hmmm...most of what I'm seeing looks like what I've already tried, apart from the methods that use whole tomatoes instead of just seeds. I'll have to try that some, though it limits my options to whatever I can find in farmers markets.

Maybe a better question: Is there anything you would say about growing tomatoes from seed that you wouldn't say about growing cucumbers, beans, peas, sunflowers, tomatillos, gourds, nasturtiums, or cucamelons (all seeds that I am able to grow from just fine)? Whatever I'm doing wrong doesn't seem as important to most vegetables.
 
Will Wit
Posts: 122
3
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Josh Mc wrote:hmmm...most of what I'm seeing looks like what I've already tried, apart from the methods that use whole tomatoes instead of just seeds. I'll have to try that some, though it limits my options to whatever I can find in farmers markets.

Maybe a better question: Is there anything you would say about growing tomatoes from seed that you wouldn't say about growing cucumbers, beans, peas, sunflowers, tomatillos, gourds, nasturtiums, or cucamelons (all seeds that I am able to grow from just fine)? Whatever I'm doing wrong doesn't seem as important to most vegetables.




Ok..the quote feature is cool.

I honestly can't think of anything, for me they are one of the easiest to sprout. I don't even mind the temps most seasons, as long as they aren't to moist and rot in the soil or dry to baked, when they are ready they will sprout. You could always take a packet an mass sow in a weed free bed. If nothing comes up I would think it's the seed. I get volunteers every year as well from my compost. And if my first method doesn't work and you are able to find a variety you like try this. With the other half of the one you will use to try my first method. Simply take the half with a sharp knife out to the garden and slice it in 1/8" - 1/4" slices and put he slice wherever you want a plant of course and cover it with soil about 1/4 - 1/2". you could even make 1 edge 1/2" deep and the other only an 1/8" deep. That way you are trying to sprout through the entire range of sprouting depths. You could try covering some with peat others with compost and then another with the soil in your bed. I would also try a wider variety of seed, variety and vendor. AND, if you finally are able to sprout a good plant, take the suckers and try to root them for the late summer or in case you lose any..The main thing is you keep plugging at it.

This might seem a little strange or unorthodox, but....Sow with intention and Bless your garden or better yet, ask your garden to Bless you.

I even talk to my plants. I say "Hello and Good Morning" every morning and thank them every day. Call me crazy, but you should see my sun porch and garden!
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
🤔 what type of soil are you starting the seeds in?  Maybe a fine mix? The seeds you mentioned are mostly larger seeds. Most are very easy to germinate except nasturtiums, that can be a more challenging one. Maybe planting to deep?  You should just barely cover tomato seeds.  Are you using a humidity dome? The seed you mentioned don't really require it, but tomatoes do better with one.  
I think if I were you I might get 3 or 4 different types of tomato seeds. Try a few different variations of the methods that were mentioned. Maybe some inside, and some outside.  Just do an experiment, maybe different types of soil?  Something's going to work for you, it's just a matter of figuring out what that is.  Depending on where you live it may be kind of late to do this kind of experiment. This year you may have to buy plants. But if you have the time and money, it might make it easier for next year to work it out now.  
Most important is don't feel bad about it, this is just the way it is sometimes.  It took me 3 tries to get mint to grow. Everyone talks about how easy comfrey is, I really had a hard time getting that to survive. All of us run into the plan that's determined to keep us humble.  Have fun, and good luck.
 
pollinator
Posts: 5007
Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b
1357
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I saw a media piece where a hardcore seed saver and grower would heavily ferment the seeds in the tomato flesh before saving and drying. The grower said there is a resistant layer on the mature seed that needs to be "digested" away for good germination. I guess it's the equivalent of the gut of an animal.

I haven't tried it yet. But I filed that tidbit in my bag-of-tricks database should I ever need it.
 
Posts: 8
1
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The digestion is a good hint: Since about one year ago, when having problems with seeds, I put them in my mouth first. I wet them well. It is supposed to give the seeds bacteria which will stimulate soil biology around the seed. I read somewhere that plants can stimulate the bacteria they need for good health and growth. Since I started dowing this, I have more seedlings when direct sowing. Whether that is because of better germination or healthier plants that are not attacked by slugs I dont know. When I red this at first, I thought it was really weird, but it wouldn't hurt to try. I still giggle when somebody catches me with a mouthful of seeds...  you have to find a method: I use my left hand to poke a hole in the ground with my finger, and than take a seed out of my mouth with the right hand, so I wont have to eat soil. Because it was so succesfull, iI pay a lot more attention to the soil biology in my garden. Any addition of bacteria has a positive effect (on weeds as well). Good luck!
 
Douglas Alpenstock
pollinator
Posts: 5007
Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b
1357
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Interesting to hear your field report!

In addition to mouth bacteria, I seem to recall that human saliva contains enzymes that are the starting point for digestion. Perhaps we are both barking up the right tree?
 
gardener
Posts: 2217
Location: Central Maine (Zone 5a)
910
homeschooling kids trees chicken food preservation building woodworking homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Josh,
You have had some excellent replies here. I just want to call out something that several people have said, but was somewhat buried. Heat.

When I was starting my own plants, a heat mat made all the difference when I started tomatoes and peppers. They are a heat loving plant. Eliot Coleman said in one of his videos that tomatoes are one of the only plants that he bothered to use heat for. It just gives better and faster germination.
 
pollinator
Posts: 992
270
5
tiny house food preservation cooking rocket stoves homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Multiple secrets.

1)   variety.    there are over 3,000 varieties of tomatoes,  I have only one that gives me volunteers every year, I had to try different seeds to find it.    Try all diffent kinds of tomatoes to find the right one for you.    Try to get heirloom tomatoes so you can repeat every year the same .

2)   age of seeds.       Old seeds do not germinate as easy as old seeds from my experience.

3)   soil,   and moisture level.      I use a domed plastic kit to get my tomatoes started, then right after that I take them outside here in Florida as they love sunlight.


 
Posts: 27
Location: Arizona
1
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My favorite germination method is seed tray.  Add soil then water, then press a hole with a marker. Then add your seed and sprinkle more soil on top.

For temperature:
Place the seed tray either in a car (not in direct sunlight) or outside in the shade. Within 2-4 days your seeds will start to show stem/leaves through the soil.

Here's a photo of tomatillos seeds I planted may 14. This is their progress on May 21. A little leggy, because I didn't move them to sunlight  when the first ones broke soil. As of may 27, they are now starting to get 3 leaves and becoming more heat/sun tolerant.

I was planning to make a video on youtube. I can link it later, if I make the video tomorrow.


Note:
Any seeds that I planted directly outside in a pot or soil without cover took  2-4 weeks extra to germinate. I recently had a tomatillo seed that germinated almost a month later after I reused the soil for another plant, because I thought the seed was a dud.
tomatillos-may-21.png
[Thumbnail for tomatillos-may-21.png]
May-14-seeds-started.png
[Thumbnail for May-14-seeds-started.png]
 
Josh McDonald
Posts: 19
Location: Utah County
5
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well, I had my break-through. It's not too far from the various suggestions, both here and elsewhere, but it involved thinking a little differently than others describe.

Most seeds need both air and water, so people always talk about not watering too much or too little. Instead of continuing to try to guess just the right amount of water, I decided "Water from the bottom, air from the top." I soaked the soil I was placing them on but only lightly dampened the soil on top. This fits with methods people often describe, but thinking in terms of underlying mechanisms instead of just following instructions tends to give better results.
 
gardener
Posts: 1026
Location: Málaga, Spain
368
home care personal care forest garden urban food preservation cooking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi.
If you have success with other seeds, then it shouldn't be an issue with air or water, since that would affect your other seeds too.
Best thing is to know what are their requirements. In the case of tomatoes, first suspect is temperature. Too hot or too cold may prevent them from sprouting.
I purchased a bag of tomato seeds last month. In the bag it said that they will sprout in five weeks. Mine sprouted in a week. The man who wrote the instructions live in France, I live in southern Spain.
I think the seeds should be labeled for their real conditions. If they require temperature to be between 25 and 31 C degrees, the bag should say so, instead of giving me a date of plantation. Because, you know, we had 25 degrees in March, and when July comes, everything not irrigated or shaded just dies.

What I had more problems with it was the seed tray. You know the general advice, not too much not too little water, or you'll kill your plants... If I follow the reccomendations as seen in oh so many videos, then my young seedlings die. Heat is a problem. If the substrate dries just for one day, all the seedlings die from dehydration. So I followed the advice of a fellow gardener who told me to have the tray constantly submerged in a third of water. This is, if my tray is 6cm high, then the water must always be at 2cm high. It worked. Sometimes I have to replace the water before it rots or greens, but more often than not I got my seedlings.

Short story. The right method depends on where you live and where you are placing your tray seed. Probably a local gardener can help you more.
 
eco-innovator & pollinator
Posts: 551
Location: Russia
113
hugelkultur forest garden trees books homestead ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here is a great way to start the seeds (tomato seeds too!) without soil. We use wet toilet paper in plastic bottles cut in half, covered with plastic packets.
Please read about our experience here: https://ecominded.net/easy-way-to-start-seeds-without-soil
 
No prison can hold Chairface Chippendale. And on a totally different topic ... my stuff:
12 DVDs bundle
https://permies.com/wiki/269050/DVDs-bundle
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic