Some plants need more biochar than others

I used to notice that my paw paw trees and my blueberries would get dried out in our very dry, hot summers.  I would have to give them extra water when their leaves were brown and cracked.  I avoided biochar on the blueberries, because I had read that until about 1950, people didn't grow blueberries in their yards. THey thought it was impossible to grow them outside of their native habitat and that transplanting them would automatically kill them. Then they learned it was because they do well in acidic soil.  I was worried that any remnant of ash would harm the blue berries.  Then I read a study about how good biochar is for them.  

I first put biochar in the soil of my pie cherries and American persimmons because I had read that they like neutral to alkaline soil, and we have naturally acidic soil.  They did really well. Some of them did amazingly well, but I noticed that some did better than others.  Some of my pie cherries doubled their quality and quantity of cherries.  Some of my persimmons produced 5 times as much with 5 times the quality.  Some stayed the same.  I'm trying to make sense of why this happened.

Some plants come from areas that have lots of rain in the summer.  Paw paws, American persimmons, and perhaps blueberries come from the Eastern US, where rain is common during the summer.  When one of my persimmon varieties didn't do particularly better than before I biocharred it, I did an experiment.  I gave it lots more biochar than just a line around the drip line. It has done much better, with way more fruit than before and growing more branches.  When I biocharred my mulberry tree, it responded by giving the best mulberries it ever has, on a consistent basis.   After I put a line of biochar around my paw paw tree, it stopped showing thirst stress on its leaves.  Another of my American persimmons is showing a lot of thirst stress.  I decided to give it biochar during the summer, but I think the trees need a year or two to really benefit from it and develop the accompanying microbial and mycelium structure.  I have another American persimmon tree that previously lost all its fruit last year and the year before, when we had really hot temperatures like we have been this year.  It hasn't lost its fruit this year, but I've been giving it extra water. I think I'm going to plan to give it and another one extra biochar during a cooler part of the year.  I don't want to shock it in the middle of a heat wave.  

Apple trees come from Western CHina, where it is dry. They are grown heavily in Central Washington state, which is a dry area, that has irrigation from the Columbia river.  They might not need as much biochar.  It's possible that they could benefit from it, though.  

I will keep people posted on how these experiments turn out.

Thanks,
John S
PDX OR

Great info, John. We have a dry summer problem here (although it is very strongly tied to what the tropical Pacific is doing, so the last two were soaking wet), and I am about ready to plant out a bunch of pawpaw seedlings but am concerned about what the next several months will bring.

I will increase the biochar proportions according to your advice and also put it around the blueberries.

The American persimmons that I gave extra biochar to did much better than ever before.  One of the trees that I gave extra biochar near had 5 times as many persimmons as it ever did before, and they all did really well.  The one that held onto its fruit after dropping it for two years had by far its best production as well.   I also biocharred a pie cherry tree that hadn't done very well previously to see if it will improve its behavior.

John S
PDX OR

Hey John, I don't want to derail the main point of this thread but can you explain how you give the char to the trees? Do you dig it in a bit or maybe spread it on the surface? Just curious.

Thanks for posting this important information.

Good question. I dig it one spade deep into the drip line of the tree or bush. I put the spade in, jimmy it back and forth, creating a mini-crevasse, then fill the "crevasse".  Then I cover it with mulch so it doesn't dry out.  

John S
PDX OR

Thanks! I do the same thing more or less if I am trying to add biochar around an existing plant or tree.

Appreciate it!

This is really interesting to th8nk about, particularly for someone like me that produces biochar primarily for water retention properties(which means I don't bother to grind it)

Are you applying a steady ring around the drilling or is it just a couple of deposits around the dripline?

I make a steady ring around the dripline of each major plant.  Not around each dandelion, for example:).

Each tree or bush, and enough to cover large areas, within say, 3 feet, of all of the property, but I just have a suburban yard, not acreage.

John S
PDX OR

I'm curious to know your rate of application... about a cup, quart or tablespoon per tree?  I applied some biochar to my gardens after it was "activated" and I'm not sure if it helped or not, but everything has survived, so that's a good thing.  I did not put any with the blueberries, but I may have to rethink that.  Do you make your own or purchase it?

Hi John,
I have heard biochar is really good, but your results are great!

I am curious about the PH issue, which was why you put it on some plants and not on others. I had always heard that biochar had a fairly neutral ph (as opposed to ashes which are quite alkaline).

I make it. When I started it was difficult to find and it would have been financially challenging to buy enough.  

I estimate that I put 15 gallons of finished (Crunched and charged) biochar around each bush and probably 30 gallons around a mid-sized tree. I don't have any trees taller than 18 feet, on purpose. I want to be able to maintain them.  I dig one spade depth into the ground at the dripline, and jimmy it back and forth to create an upside down triangular solid crevasse, then I fill it.  Then I cover it, so it doesn't dry out.

John S
PDX OR

Our soils here in the PNWet are quite acidic naturally. I decided to start with plants that really preferred neutral to alkaline soils for that reason.  When both pie cherries and American persimmons really took off with the biochar, I decided to continue with all of the other plants.  

I think you make a good point that ash is really quite alkaline.  Biochar properly made isn't far from neutral.  I drench mine with water when I estimate that I am at maximum char. It also blows it out so it has more pore space.  I'm sure that it draws out  a lot of the ash when I drench it.  

My suspicion, and Elaine Ingham confirms this, is that having biochar or a proper biology in the soil would allow the trees or ecology to get the soil right by itself.  Biochar in some form would happen by itself wherever wildfires would naturally occur (everywhere?).  When humans either value and cooperate with the natural ecology or get out of the way, the biology tends to correct itself.  The ecology, or the balance of nature, as Rachel Carson called it, is smarter than we are, IMHO.

John S
PDX OR

15 - 30 gallons was a whole lot more than I was expecting you'd say!!  I might try the "dig a hole in the ground to burn" method.  I was pretty caught up by thinking I needed to double-line a giant drum after cutting it in half, etc.!  It's been so wet from June onward that I don't know that anything will burn!  I am concerned about oxygen turning it to ash vs. biochar.  Any thoughts on how to pre-empt that?

In my method, I don't double line or cut a barrel in half or anything like that.  

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Warmheart+biochar&atb=v401-1&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DYIbGkmt1VdE



To stop the fire, I just douse it when it is 5-8 inches above the char.  I have found experimentally that this is the moment when it gives me the most char and least ash.

John S
PDX OR

I just watched a video that makes making biochar a real possibility.  This fellow makes containers out of #10 cans and then fills them and puts them in a wood stove! It's rather brilliant.  Here's the link:

The tool/ crimper he's using is found on Amazon for $23.  One small bag of biochar would cost that!  I think I could go to a school or pizza place and get all the #10 cans I could want.  I hope this helps someone who was feeling like I was, which was hopeless because of the materials required through other methods.

Thanks for doing this, Barbara.

I didn't go this route, because, as I think you've read, I needed a much larger volume of biochar than that.

I got my steel 55 gallon drum off of Craig's list for free.

The chimney cost $4 at Restore.

None of my materials cost more than $25, which I didn't even have to spend, because I already had those tools for other reasons.

JohN S
PDX OR

I totally get it!  I was just not keen on the idea of trying to cut such a large drum, get pieces welded or screwed together, carry it to its spot, etc.  I am a single, 63 year old woman who stands at 4'11"!  It wasn't gonna happen!  I bet that there are a lot of older women on this site, hell, some older men, too, who wouldn't want to approach such a task, or don't have the amount of land to warrant it.  I have only one acre which is in a small village with one main road that's actually a federal highway.  Resources are limited as is the space in my vehicle.  I want my next car to be a truck because of all the hauling of stuff that I'd love to do, but that, for now, is another restriction that I'm sure many face.

Makes sense to me.  I'm 60, and not exactly a linebacker in size. I use a dolly to move the barrel.  My land is 1/5 of an acre.  I just used a drill and an angle grinder, which I already had.  I want there to be enough examples of what is possible for many people to look at their situation and say, "I've found one that I can do!"

John S
PDX OR

Barbara Simoes wrote:I totally get it!  I was just not keen on the idea of trying to cut such a large drum, get pieces welded or screwed together, carry it to its spot, etc.  I am a single, 63 year old woman who stands at 4'11"!  It wasn't gonna happen!

Pearl Sutton struggled with this issue also, and has posted her system here: https://permies.com/t/235724/biochar-burn-Itty-bitty-Pearl
It is totally worth it to read her thread and the link to the "angled barrel" method. I haven't tried this yet, but it's on my list.

The advantage of the barrel method over the wood-stove method appears to be the ability to quench it while it's at just the right part of the burn. I'm using the "restaurant warming tray" in the wood-stove method. It's better than nothing but the quantity is more limited than I could use.

The important thing isn't the size of the biochar kiln, it's that you start making biochar! How many people sit around dreaming up a "perfect system" that'd make huge quantities of biochar, but never end up making any at all?

I started with a couple metal paint cans that I bought for $10 each and poked holes in with a nail. Most of us will never make as much biochar as we want, but if we all make what we can, it'll do a lot of good!

When you apply it to an established tree, do you just put it on the surface or do you mixed it in? What do you use to charge your biochar, if you do charge it?

I feel like I keep repeating myself, even in the same thread.

From this same thread, a few posts ago:" I dig one spade depth into the ground at the dripline, and jimmy it back and forth to create an upside down triangular solid crevasse, then I fill it.  Then I cover it, so it doesn't dry out."

I use whole wheat flour, ag lime, compost, rotten fruit, worm compost (castings), seaweed and urine, because they are free or cheap and nutritious.

John S
PDX OR

Great thread John. I am pretty sure much of western Asia where apples are indigenous is a pyrophytic (fire is integral to the ecosystem) environment, and central WA state certainly is.

I have made what seems to be excellent quality biochar with a salvaged 2gal cast iron dutch oven in my wood stove. The trick is getting that dense, 900f hunk of metal out safely. It doesnt seem to be worth the risk though, as ash was minimal when I let the fire burn down around it to the point it was more like 3-400F. I charge in a Johnson Su compost pile, and/or in our fish pond.

John, that's a frustration of mine, just as a reader, when people don't look through the thread to see if the question has already been asked and answered.  There have been a lot of good tips and tricks sprinkled throughout, and I appreciate everyone's willingness to share their techniques.  I do have a metal garbage can / burn barrel that perhaps could be used, although I think it might have too many holes in it.  At least now I feel as though I have some options.  I've gone ahead and ordered the crimper and I think I just might start with the #10 cans.  It would be great to use some wood chips to fill the cans.  I don't have a wood stove, so I'm going to have to find a spot that I want to dedicate to burning, build a fire pit, etc.  I have a place in mind, but I don't know if the hose will reach...I've filled the large wheelbarrow with water before and I've used 5 gallon buckets in my pull-behind cart.

John Suavecito wrote:I feel like I keep repeating myself, even in the same thread.

From this same thread, a few posts ago:" I dig one spade depth into the ground at the dripline, and jimmy it back and forth to create an upside down triangular solid crevasse, then I fill it.  Then I cover it, so it doesn't dry out."

I use whole wheat flour, ag lime, compost, rotten fruit, worm compost (castings), seaweed and urine, because they are free or cheap and nutritious.

John S
PDX OR

Hi John,

I had read that, but wanted to know if that's specifically how you do it for established trees, as I mentioned. I wasn't sure if it was different from when planting a sapling. I didn't mean to cause a kerfuffle

Specifically, when I have seen your place in the past, I saw you had applied biochar to the surface, including to your American persimmons. So I wasn't sure if the spading was just for new trees, and if it's better to avoid disturbing the soil around established trees.

My mistake.

This is a great question.  My comment wasn't specifically directed at you.  Many, many people ask questions that were just asked, not just you, James.

I have been putting the biochar around the sapling's drip line.  A few years later, I would put new biochar around the new drip line of the fully grown tree.  That's just my take.  I would be interested in anyone else's opinion too.

John S
PDX OR