Supporting cedars on the Pacific West Coast

We have approximately 3 acres of second growth forest which appears to be mostly cedar and Doug Fir, along with some Grand Fir and a sprinkling of deciduous trees along the edges and a patch of Garry Oak on some of the rocky high points.

The cedars have been in decline for decades. I can remember when we moved here with young children, you couldn't see light through the dense evergreen canopy and there was little in the way of understory plants. It's hard to notice the change when it happens gradually, but it clearly has happened.

We bought that chunk of land about 5 years ago, but I was more concerned with rehabilitating the disturbed land in the south corner of the property, thinking "the forest will just look after itself". However, the cedars are in decline or dead, and I'm wondering what small things could be done to support them.

English Ivy is a problem in the south area, but many cedars died before the Ivy got there. There isn't fencing, so dealing manually with the Ivy is not a "small thing" and there seems to be conflicting ideas of how to deal with the Ivy once it is removed.

I am also interested. Our cedars (actually Incense Cedar, not a true cedar I guess) are in decline as well. They are dying in the tops which I am to understand is irreversible once it starts.

I wish Garry Oak weren't so slow to grow sad to see such a cool tree decimated in populated areas of the Olympic Peninsula.

How old are your cedars?

T Simpson wrote:
How old are your cedars?

I think this is a very good question. Also are there younger trees - seedlngs as well as mature cedar? I guess older trees will exhaust the reserves in an area after a while, but their death and return to soil puts those resources back into the soil again. However they will take moisture and nutrients from a wide area.
Can anything be done to support the fungi in the area? My understanding is that conifers are particularly dependent on fungal relationships for their support. These may range for many yards around the tree itself. Indeed isn't one of the largest organisms on earth a fungal network? The obvious suggestion then might be a load of woodchip?

Very busy times here, but I will try to get some pictures.

There is a lot of dead material on the ground in some areas which could be a fire hazard - the Fire Marshall is even concerned about wood chips to some degree, although I think the concern was that wood chips as path material could "lead" a fire in directions that would be problematic.

There has been no significant disturbance of the soil/ground around the trees in the 25 years we've lived beside these trees. I'm not aware of that parcel being farmed historically - too rocky and too little soil depth - so I suspect it was logged and left. I would say the age of the trees is varied. The diameter of a Grand Fir which died in the last few years is about 3 feet, there are plenty that would be in the 2 ft range, and a few that are smaller. However, diameter doesn't always indicate age, as trees that are stressed from lack of water or sunlight will grow much slower than trees in high resource environments. There are pros and cons to that! I've seen trees that grew too fast succumb to big storms and we can get high winds here!

I need to re-read some of the biochar options, as biochar could help support both water management and fungi. There are significant fire restrictions in the area that could limit those options, so I need to figure out ways to make it work safely and efficiently.

We certainly do have fungi that I recognize, but I don't know of fungi that specifically support cedar - ideas anyone?

Jay, it is my understanding that the first peoples used to practice forest management that included thinning older trees, and that reduced the fire danger. If most of your trees are older, I would consider harvesting some so that new, young trees can come up in the area. Having a better balance in tree age might increase the health of your plot and reduce fire load?

The other thing I'm wondering is if your cedar health is part of that area's natural succession? Are there other trees there, are they effected? What do other nearby forested places look like?

Jay Angler wrote:We have approximately 3 acres of second growth forest which appears to be mostly cedar and Doug Fir, along with some Grand Fir and a sprinkling of deciduous trees along the edges and a patch of Garry Oak on some of the rocky high points.

The cedars have been in decline for decades. I can remember when we moved here with young children, you couldn't see light through the dense evergreen canopy and there was little in the way of understory plants. It's hard to notice the change when it happens gradually, but it clearly has happened.

We bought that chunk of land about 5 years ago, but I was more concerned with rehabilitating the disturbed land in the south corner of the property, thinking "the forest will just look after itself". However, the cedars are in decline or dead, and I'm wondering what small things could be done to support them.

English Ivy is a problem in the south area, but many cedars died before the Ivy got there. There isn't fencing, so dealing manually with the Ivy is not a "small thing" and there seems to be conflicting ideas of how to deal with the Ivy once it is removed.

Hello Jay, sounds like maturing forest! Let me throw some ideas out there. Grand Fir, Doug Fir (actually more a Spruce) and (which? Red? Incense?) Cedars are pioneer species on wet side Pacific Northwest forest-favorable sites. Here in Southern Oregon, the White Firs died out in the early 1980’s, the Doug Fir died out last year. All at once below four thousand feet. The second growth, overstocked regrowth pioneers are moving north and upslope. A California forest is our model.

You may have the chance to plant mature species in the understory. Red Cedar, Alaska Yellow Cedar, Yew, Engelmann Spruce, from the northern coastal forests and Redwood, Sugar Pine, and Jeffery Pine from the California Coastal forests are all capable of living in the shade waiting for openings. So you could create some openings by cleverly dropping big logs or you could let this succession take its pace and plant the new forest in waiting. Snags are really useful but White Fir is too unstable and rots fast. Cedar snags and Doug Fir can last a long time if balanced right. Getting big trees down is an art but the opportunity to drop it on contour and to take some limbs down off neighbors in falling opens up a planting zone.

Especially as you note fungii, I would usually recommend high pruning (for fire safety and access), and low slashing: cutting and laying limbs and logs on the ground in soil contact. The back-east forestry standard used to be two feet slash after logging and best six inches slash for quick break down. Laying logs and large limbs on contour or more cleverly on Keyline herringbones is a neat trick: debris swales for soil and water, as well as ground fire blocks where up-down slope wood can be a wick and accelerate ground fire.

Most of my advice implies plenty labor availability. Thus Social Forestry. Meanwhile we can all get at it where we are.

Make any sense? hazel

Tomi Hazel wrote:Hello Jay, sounds like maturing forest! Let me throw some ideas out there. Grand Fir, Doug Fir (actually more a Spruce) and (which? Red? Incense?) Cedars are pioneer species on wet side Pacific Northwest forest-favorable sites.

I believe they are Western Red Cedars. I am actually on Vancouver Island on the straight side. It's very much a land of micro-ecosytems. Our joke about the weather is that if you don't like it, wait five minutes, or move five kilometers - and it's *very* true.

Getting big trees down is an art but the opportunity to drop it on contour and to take some limbs down off neighbors in falling opens up a planting zone.

Yes, we just spent a lot of money getting some trees on the ground. Too near power lines and infrastructure to risk the alternative. Hubby is aware of the benefits of nurse logs and hugels, so some of the wood will be used to support the forest.

Despite the increased ocean temperatures in our area, it will continue to moderate the weather - with rare exception, it cools off quickly as soon as the sun goes down. Using hugelkulture and sun traps to help balance the heat and the cooling is in the plans, but keeping ahead of the English Ivy and Himalayan Blackberry as seniors forces me to limit my goals.

Most of my advice implies plenty labor availability. Thus Social Forestry.

Make any sense? hazel

Yes, finding willing and interested labor is a challenge in my region. We are the seniors capital of Canada, but I need to connect to well, "young seniors" who care enough about the environment to be prepared to help manage. I will try to take a hike around the forest with an eye to areas that would be easy to open up to enough light that young trees will have a chance.