My 33 Gallon Composter Is Full. Now What?

Helloooo, All.

This is my first post.
I'm excited about it.
I love forums for many many reasons.
I want to give a deep bow, and a thank you in advance ❤️

My subject line says it all. I have a Vevor 33gallon tumble style composter. My first. I am completely NEW to composting (am so so so glad I finally got to start) as my fiancee and I took the plunge and bought a big beautiful fix-er-upper Colonial/Victorian home in Staten Island NY. Went from renting small apartments with no yard - and we finally have a little yard! We are pleased and have lots of work ahead of us on this big ol house. Finally enough room for a garden!

Anywho. We got the thing sometime ago and it's already full up. I think it has a little more cooking to do and what I do next will depend on y'all's expert advice.

Can I empty it and put it in a pile somewhere til spring? Do I need to make a box of some sort and store it in there?

I'm all ears. It seems like a simple thing, but I'm a bit stuck and want to do the right thing. So, I'm here to receive the blessings of y'all's shared and hard worked for experience. I love forums this way.

Hope to hear back soon 😊

Welcome to Permies!
A pile will work perfectly  :D
You don't need a box unless you have A LOT more than that and want to keep it constrained.

Pearl Sutton wrote:Welcome to Permies!
A pile will work perfectly  
You don't need a box unless you have A LOT more than that and want to keep it constrained.

Got it. Wonderful news...
Thank you!
I'll BE BACK, 😆

Hello Jason, another welcome from me!
As Pearl says a pile will be fine. Organic matter 'wants' to turn in to compost so will do so one way or another in time. I'm wondering if it may be worth covering the pile? In a cold winter the top layers will decompose less quickly when frozen, so keeping it a bit warmer and drier will make it speedier.
Alternatively if you know where your garden is going, you could spread the nearly finished compost over the surface and cover it with a couple of inches of soil - then it will be nicely feeding the soil microbes for you ready for planting in spring. It will depend a bit on how finished the material looks when you tip it out, and what sort of materials went in to the mix. Also whether you were intending to use it for potting soil, or soil improver; the former will want to be a bit more finished.
Congratulations on your first garden and compost!

Great job getting started.  Previous answers are good.
Tumblers are good for making almost finished compost.
Tumblers work best if you can assemble the ingredients, add them together and then tumble.

I would stop adding to it and continue to tumble it for another month or two.
Another option would be to bucket or tote the compost and let it sit - adding red worms would be an easy finishing step.

Good morning Nancy,  Keith, All... Good Day.

The issue I ran into (and I am amazed at how quickly organics accumulate, and its just me and one other in the house) is that I ran out of room! Couldn't wait another 1-2 months as Keith suggested. Good thing, kitchen trash doesn't smell anymore 😊

We emptied one side and put it over into a maybe 35 gallon unused raised bed type planter with something in the corners at the base to keep it off the ground a little. I'll have to take another look at that set up, I think.

Then there's THIS. Critters. I hadn't noticed them before and HOPE that they aren't spoiling everything. Again, I'm in undiscovered/unfamiliar territory and my word, I ain't never even seen these kinds of critters before. They are moving slow (cold I guess) and throughout the mix. Some type of grub/larvae/worm? What am I looking at here?

black soldier fly larvae - bsfl
They are harmless and will outcompete everything else so not an awful thing for your bin.  
They are ravenous and don't leave much behind.
So great for getting rid of waste, poor for leaving a lot of finished product.  
Good quality compost and great chicken/fish food.  Bad if you or your spouse don't like the word maggot - ask me how I know!
They show up in wetter, heavy food waste situations - full tumbler.
If you're in the south they will carry on.  If not they will die when it gets cold.  Freezing for sure, maybe earlier.

Mother Nature may not do what we want but she does do what she wants and is pretty predictable.

edit - I see now that you are in NY.  They will carry on until they freeze.  
If some of the larvae get to pupae stage they will bury themselves and hatch out next year to repeat the cycle.

Those critters look like black soldier fly larva which is a good thing.

https://permies.com/t/61705/composting/attract-black-soldier-flies

https://permies.com/t/190095/Wild-black-soldier-fly-distribution

https://permies.com/t/68808/composting/Black-Soldier-Flies-Eat

You know, there is something to say about being able to divert some of our waste stream into a localized area that we control and can put it to use instead of getting encapsulated in a landfill or burnt at a plant.

I like composting where it can touch the ground. It has allowed worms to assist the process along for me as well as strategically placing my bin to allow any smidge of runoff to be captured by nearby plants. I don't see why you couldn't get the process going in your spin bin and then putting it in a pile somewhere to finish 'cooking'. I wish I had that compost to give to my chickens! They would love to scratch through it. I'm just starting to incorporate a dozen hens into my compost generation quest but that will come when they fill out in size here.

Welcome to the forum, you can never have enough compost!

Soldier Fly Larvae, Huh? Ok. Interesting...

Thanks for all the guidance and thanks for them supplemental threads! I got dreams of having a few chickens running around the yard!

Let me ask this. If I put the pile in a wheel barrow (it would nicely fill the bottom of a wheel barrow I have and go up the sides a little) leaving it spread out and open for a while, would the birds get a snack? I mean, would birds come and pick some of them out? Honestly, I don't know how the flies GOT into the tumbler/bin in the first olace (it's almost sealed except for the air vents in the sides) but the are hundreds of larvae now. I feel like it would be best to have some of them cleared out....?

And yes, ain't mother nature something! I say it every day!

Then, there is the cold. It is coming, that's for sure.

Mother Nature this AM. NYC.

Our multiple-tumbler pile-finished batch-composting operation takes its time as we're in a dry climate + I like to let it get through the bolus-forming into their breaking-apart stages before emptying over soil.  

We also tried tuning to favour soldier fly (plus mealworms), for the chickens primarily, but also because the former larvae push mixing & breakdown while their adult stage have no mouth parts so don't bother us/ our food otherwise.  

Hi, Jason.
I find the major reason for using a tumbler is that it keeps humidity more easily than the pile. This is critical for desert locations.
A good compost facility has three tumblers: one for adding stuff, other for maturing, the last one for use. Though you can do with just two if you apply the mature compost as soon as it is ready.
Don't mind the bugs. Probably there were fly eggs in some of the stuff you used before putting it in the tumbler. These eggs are killed when cooked, or by your stomach acids when consumed raw. In the worst case you are growing birdy food.

For a better quality, add fibers to your compost: dry leaves or paper, or some woody material. Soak them in water first.
I added a lot of shredded paper to my compost bin and was pleasently surprised when I saw a few mushrooms sprouting inside.

A note on the tumbler: it only makes cold compost, so consider that this compost may contain weed seeds and pathogens from previous crops. A hot compost requires 300 gallons. Also, the constant moving makes it harder for funghal activity, so the final product is likely to be a bacterial dominated compost, which is better for herbaceus crops (lettuces)

I've ended up doing mostly cold composting: it takes longer but more of the desirable complex organic molecules from inputs  + living microbial populations make it through to the soil amendment.  It was more of a challenge with our animal wastes, especially while I was able to do humanure, but I eventually worked out the sequence, handling, timing for hygiene & satisfaction.  We have no house or carrion flies, or bad odours.  In our dryland oases/ Edible Plantscapes/ courtyard orchard-gardens settings, weeds can & do get out of control, however incorporating them before seed formation/ spread seems preferable to tuning composting around them.  

https://m.vevor.com/compost-tumbler-c_11277/vevor-compost-tumbler-125l-dual-chamber-composter-rotating-outdoor-compost-bin-p_010290582455?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=20738448458&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgK2qBhCHARIsAGACuzmp4ZY5jg4rQZ3MBGfFXRstx8g6B0V93nzJ0sKq6d760U6MInBilJwaAtClEALw_wcB

Good Morning 🌞

I do hope that that link will show up in some abbreviated form.

I'm learning from ALL y'all's posts! Thank you!

This is my composter. Thought I should give an idea of what I'm working with. The inner panels are insulated with like two inches of a insulating material. It's also (was) placed in a sunny spot for the summer. Sun has moved. I hope y'all won't be laughing at me as a city slicker, or a cheater for using this device, but this is what I got.

I don't know if it's good or bad BUT it looks like the birds have picked a fair amount of them larvae out of the pile in the wheel barrow. The number of larvae seems less dense than I remember that first day.

Over the summer, as we started filling it, I noticed heat. I've even opened it to find steam. Once, put in fresh grass cuttings and I know it was getting warm. Lately, I've used a gloved hand to break up mud balls that were forming when spinning and the heat had gone. I also put a scoop of soil from a pile we have around here in thinking it would help.

I'm not sure of the "health" of my compost at all. I'm not sure if finding earthworms and the larvae is a good or bad sign...? We haven't been putting bones, or meat, bread or anything like that (I've feared contamination) just fruits and veggies, some yard grass cuttings and weeds and what not.

I hope y'all won't be laughing at me as a city slicker

You are not the only one city slicker, so they better don't laugh XD.

I don't know if it's good or bad BUT it looks like the birds have picked a fair amount of them larvae out of the pile in the wheel barrow.

Did they gift you back with some manure in return?

Over the summer, as we started filling it, I noticed heat.

Cooking temperature is around 70ºC. You can't hold your hand in that heat. Less than that it is cold compost.

I also put a scoop of soil from a pile we have around here in thinking it would help.

Yes, it helps. Any organic material which may be already colonized by local microorganisms is good to have.
The only thing that ruins your compost is anaerobic composting. Anaerobic compostage gives microorganisms that are detrimental to most plants, and you need to wait until those microorganisms are gone before applying what would be no more than an expensive manure. A truly vibrant aerobic compost is full of benefitial life. Think of it as drinking probiotics.
Anaerobic compost happens when:
-Excessive watering.
-Excessive compaction.
-Excessive temperature (not likely your case)
and you can tell it is anaerobic by the septic smells.

The proportion of the materials you use in your compost matters. If you want your compost for woody plants, use mostly woody material, rich in Carbon. If you want it for veggies, use mostly non woody material rich in Nitrogen.

Abraham Palma wrote:

I hope y'all won't be laughing at me as a city slicker

You are not the only one city slicker, so they better don't laugh XD.

I don't know if it's good or bad BUT it looks like the birds have picked a fair amount of them larvae out of the pile in the wheel barrow.

Did they gift you back with some manure in return?

Over the summer, as we started filling it, I noticed heat.

Cooking temperature is around 70ºC. You can't hold your hand in that heat. Less than that it is cold compost.

I also put a scoop of soil from a pile we have around here in thinking it would help.

Yes, it helps. Any organic material which may be already colonized by local microorganisms is good to have.
The only thing that ruins your compost is anaerobic composting. Anaerobic compostage gives microorganisms that are detrimental to most plants, and you need to wait until those microorganisms are gone before applying what would be no more than an expensive manure. A truly vibrant aerobic compost is full of benefitial life. Think of it as drinking probiotics.
Anaerobic compost happens when:
-Excessive watering.
-Excessive compaction.
-Excessive temperature (not likely your case)
and you can tell it is anaerobic by the septic smells.

The proportion of the materials you use in your compost matters. If you want your compost for woody plants, use mostly woody material, rich in Carbon. If you want it for veggies, use mostly non woody material rich in Nitrogen.

Awesome info,,, we thank you! Many thanks.

I am amazing at how good all this is going.
We will certainly be keeping it up.

Abraham, or anyone. What I understand is that it IS possible to get to HOT composting with this Vevor device. You can see the "belly" (our nickname for the composter) in the link in my previous message. With what we have, how would one GET that thing hot composting, in y'all's experience?

Or, maybe it just WARMS but never really reaches hot?

Well, maybe if you add some true manure or urine it will heat more. If you want to be sure, use a thermometer, those with a metal stick that can be inserted in the middle of the mixture. 65 to 70 ºC is the right temperature.
But as others have said, it's not that bad to work with cold compost, you get a few extra weeds that are good for mulch, and maybe some pathogens from the last crop that may be skipped if you are swapping crops.

When humanure & dog waste composting fell away for us, we significantly reduced volume, & concentrated handling, timing, & value, by going all chop & drop to mulch in place across native habitat, Edible Plantscape, orchard-gardens.  We use a limited amount of production waste to temper all the kitchen material, & have long composted everything except packaging.  We also receive occasional large dried batches from friends (kitchen) & neighbours (leaves).  Now that our home city has mandated food waste composting, with a rather impractical system which many people demonstrably defy, we are considering how to expand on our small footprint to capture all that wealth.  The municipality does not seem to imagine that anyone is doing all their own.  

Good Day All...

I went to start another thread but thought,,, if I was sitting at a table in a circle with all y'all talking about THIS subject, would I get up and go to another table to start another conversation? Nope! I'd just keep it rolling. Seems like I got some great minds at this table 😊

Cool!

So, there is a Starbucks near my job. I went in and asked them about coffee grounds and composting! Yesterday they handed me a 60lb bag of warm, wet, coffee grounds. They wanted to give me TWO bags. * not fun because my commute is train to ferry to bus, lol. Anyways...

What are best practices and main ideas with coffee grounds?

What do I need to be thinking about when adding them to the heappp? Hoping my question doesn't start a fire storm hahaha

Hi Jason!

Coffee Grounds are great for the compost heap!

Coffee Grounds should be considered a Green for composting (High Nitrogen)

Brewed Coffee Grounds have the majority of the acid pulled from the beans so there is little worry about anything radical to do with PH.

Coffee Grounds in my experience are a great way to jump a pile's temperature up especially in the cold winter.

Just keep a 4:1 or 3:1 ratio of Brown to Green and it should treat you well.

I like your social thinking.  We started with coffee grounds when my compost & greasel buddy started picking up too much on his rounds.  It quickly became a lot, and was a bit tricky adding & mixing because it was the finest + heaviest of fines, thus filtering down through piles & stacks in our drylands & with watering.  Now though, I add it straight to the finish batch, alongside the ground dried kitchen scraps of our other friend, resulting in a final resurgence of microbial activity especially fungal myceliation.  

Timothy, Patrick, Thank you!

Green and Brown... I think I'm picking up what yo putting down. So, I have some leaves to shred up this weekend. Not a lot but some. What I think I'm hearing is that a good thing to mix with these leaves in the pile could be the coffee grounds? That, and I also have a pretty good sized pile of sorta depleted soil that was in an old bed when we moved in...

Remember y'all. I'm a complete novice (less a novice after carrying 60+ pounds of hot wet coffee grounds on my NYC commute) so take it slow with a brotha, 😂

I try to refrain from specific suggestions, but you seem into it enough to do some comparative trials.  It can all be mixed back together at the end.  

Hi Jason.

For composting, there are three categories:
- Black. Ingredients that are mostly Nitrogen. Think of manure.
- Green. Ingredients that have a balance between Nitrogen and Carbon. Kitchen scraps, green leaves, prunnings, used coffee grounds, ...
- Brown. Ingredients that are mostly Carbon. Dried leaves, woody material, paper & cardboard.

Nitrogen makes bacterias. Carbon makes funghi.
Active bacterias heat the compost pile. So, a compost pile with an excess of black material could overheat. Black material rate is used for temperature control, if you need the pile to heat more, you add more black. Brown material rate is used for final microorganism composition, if you want to grow trees you need more funghi, if you want to grow herbs you need it more balanced. If you wanted to grow weeds, then you can skip the brown materials.

Brilliant, Abraham... This description is kinda exactly what I was needing... All good to know and begin to understand!

Goodness knows (thanks Amazon and the world of online ordering) there is a lot of cardboard turning up. Is there cardboard that should NOT be included in composting?

I used a mower to do some of the lawn in leaves collection. Nice and shredded. I added the leaves, regular food scraps (plants and - no meat stuffs at all) and the 40-50lbs of coffee and the barrel is full again, but "melting". I opened it over the weekend to find it steaming. Not HOT but warm. At the same time, foolishly I think, I put hundreds of pounds of leaves to be picked up. Perhaps I should have spared some to mix with a future load of coffee grounds from Starbucks and more regular kitchen stuff? I split the coffee in the two halves of the barrel, with leaves and kitchen stuff.

Is that a right-ish kind of combo?
I'm liking this!

There's debate about the cardboard. During lockdowns, I heard it was sprayed with anti-funghi. But I didn't notice it in the final result.

If you are going to add cardboard, soak it well in water before adding it to your tumbler. It may help disolving any toxic stuff, but more critically, you need it to keep moist during the 2 to 4 composting months, and if you use dry cardboards, it may not get moist ever.
I remove any sticks, and make it into pieces so it mixes well. Some people do not bother with the sticks, they come out easy later.

The right proportion depends on what you are going to grow. For veggies, 5% black, 45% green, 50% brown is a good start. You will notice that the final compost is more brown coloured than black if you use these proportions.

Adapt the black matter if it is too hot or too cold,  65ºC inside the pile is ideal.

Ohhhhhh,,,, I don't think I'm anywhere NEAR 149 degrees/65C but I'll take it as a challenge and warming this pile as part of my STEEP learning curve. Super interesting...

Thanks for the info. It really helps.

I may need to start thinking of someplace to where I might get my HANDS on some manure, lol. You know what I mean.

There is a small zoo on the island! Hmmm,,,

I am sure you can find a (very) local source of urine! It is also black material.

EDIT. Oh, you don't really need to make a hot compost. Hot is better for disease and weed control, but otherwise, cold compost is fine too. As long as it smells nice, it's good for your aerobic plants.

Really!

Of course I should be comfortable with this.
Gotta think on it. And maybe make it my little secret, lol.
We are city slickers, kinda...

So, how much?

As I said, use black material for temperature control. If you want it hotter, add more black. I cannot give you an exact measure since it depends on many factors.

I've heard that boxes that have contained fruit or other fresh produce are often treated with antifungal chemicals, while boxes that contained things meant to stay dry probably aren't. Another thing with cardboard is to avoid the ones with a shiny surface, since they probably contain some form of plastic, and remember to remove any tape or shipping labels for the same reason.

A thing also to consider when making hot compost is the amount of biomass required for a pile to properly heat up. You want at least a cubic yard worth of material at a minimum to expect the heat ranges people present when they talk about hot composting. The bigger the better in my experience. The material closest to the outside helps insulate the inside material that is actively breaking down.

Understood
Understood and
Understood
Trying to understand.

Thank you.

Call me boogie. The composter we have has a pretty thick layer of insulation on the inner walls. It's lined. I don't think it's anywhere near a cubic yard (I'll have to look around to get a better sense of what a cubic yard looks like) but with the insulation I might be able to achieve some heat. I wish I hadn't disposed of all this leaves now!

Thanks y'all!

Hey Jason. Don't sweat your compost. Mother nature will do it, we just feed it and follow along.
Also don't worry about the leaves. There will be more!
A cubic yard, think about a pallet-- normally they're about a yard tall, so imagine a cube made of pallets, more or less. Most of the tumbler composters i've seen are a bit smaller. I don't have space for a full yard (or more) of compost in my small urban farm yard, but I still make rockin' compost. Don't sweat it too much, just maybe consider when you're gathering goodies to throw in your compost whether yard waste you're getting may have been sprayed with toxic gick or not, that can survive the composting process and damage the veg you grow next year, for example. Grass clippings or yard waste from other people can sometimes be hard to tell. Other than that, compost is pretty easy! Have fun with it!

Jason Matt-hew wrote:
I do hope that that link will show up in some abbreviated form.

Just removing everything after the question mark makes those links so much shorter.