Looking for help with the flock....

Well I just completed chicken coop number 3. I suppose you may be wondering why I needed three coops. Well it's like this.

My rhode island reds are some feisty birds. They are not happy until they henpeck one of their flock to near death. We'll move the victim to a new coop, and a month or two later, they repeat the cycle with one of the remaining flock members. A week ago we tried to put the latest henpecking victim (we call her Miss Prissy) in with the first victim. (You would think they would be good friends seeing as they have a near death experience in common.) Only now Victim 1 (we also call her Miss Prissy) has regained her strength, and is feisty, and wants to kill the latest henpecked victim. Hence, the third coop. I put it inside the run of the second coop. Hopefully they will look at each other for a week or so, and get used to each to each other and then I can remove the third coop. (Hopefully, meaning before winter...)  The third coop was built of scraps but is sturdy and safe. It was extremely hard to build as I am on day three of a nasty virus myself, and probably should have been resting. Oh well.

Buy cinnamon queens, because rhode island reds are simply too feisty. That is really the moral of the story.

I know of someone with Rhode Island Reds that hasn't run into this issue. I'm wondering if there might be some environmental issues that might be explaining it?

How much space are the chickens located in? Are they potentially fighting over perching space? Do they free range at all?

Hi Elanor,
I agree with Timothy. While Rhode Island Reds are not known for being as docile as some breeds, to have them peck each other to the point of an actual wound is NOT normal behavior. I would also be curious how many chickens you have in what size space? When chickens are stressed from too many birds in too small a space, they can start acting out.

Elanor, you've got a very real problem here, which I have experienced with both Industrial Layers, and Industrial Meat birds. There may not be a single "trigger", but the trigger's cocked, so it would help if you post a lot of info about your set-up, to see if we can help you interrupt what's happening.

One group of ours was triggered by hot weather - the birds were grouchy and once one of them pecked too hard, trouble ensued. A second group we are pretty sure was triggered by an owl - it may not have even been targeting the girls but there was a mouse problem in that area that I hadn't been able to trap. I could have been a coon. It wasn't a mink, as that shelter wouldn't have been mink -proof!

So yes, 1. you need to be prepared to need to isolate a lot of birds if you can't get this stopped and 2. you need to spend extra time quietly observing the birds where they can't see you easily, and watch for bullying - if there's a single instigator, try to remove that bird, but there easily could be more than one.

Next problem: every time you remove a bird - or they kill a bird - it changes the pecking order, so more trouble can result.

Some basic things to consider: 1. Multiple feeders and waterers so that essentials don't require competition to access.
2. Boredom/crowding:  I've got growing chicks with a mom in my brooder - pretty boring space. I took 3 cardboard boxes and bamboo and made a mini jungle gym. So it doesn't have to be expensive or last - but even pruning some leafy branch that isn't toxic (example, mulberry) and putting it in for them may help.
3. Make them work for their food. Our feeders are hung above the perches, so every time they want some they have to get at least that much exercise.

Last problem: The first injured bird does remember her injury - her response was to beat up this new bird while it was weak before she could get beat up again. Yes, it is possible to make some small flocks out of the cast-offs, but it takes careful introductions, good infrastructure, and *very* close monitoring. I did it by having them in cages side by side that they could see through but not kill each other. Then I'd let some out into a common area at a time and monitor, and then but them away and let others out, and eventually they got along while "out" and would even choose to go "in" together in pairs or threesomes - they were 4 ft wire cubes with a nest box, feeder and water in each that I normally use for setting ducks.  Three chickens at night is OK in that space so long as they get out, but it was also a short-term situation. Somethings don't scale down and "healthy number of chickens per square foot" is one of those things.

I couldn't agree more - lack of space, boredom, & pecking order are the most likely culprits. Do they get a chance to get out of the run? I've found that the more time my chickens are allowed to free-range, the fewer behavior problems we see. I know that's not an option for everyone, but for us, it keeps them happier, as well as keeping our environment more people friendly, as far as insect and even mouse control.

I have Buff Orpingtons, Barred Rock, Black Austrolorps, and their mixes,  which are all typically more docile breeds, but another thing that I've observed, is that if there is anything they see as 'unusual' on one another - a wound, a bare spot of skin, or anything that looks like a bug - even a bit of dirt or leaf debris - they will peck at it. If it doesn't come off, or if getting it off draws blood, they will continue pecking at it, and it can begin a frenzy, and result in fatalities. I've had to rescue a couple of hens, over stuff like that. I keep a couple dog crates for medical/ social/brooding isolation, for that kind of thing. Re-entry to the flock is watched closely, to ensure that pecking order is reestablished without further injury - and yet, I've still gone back the next morning, after what seemed like a successful re-entry, to find a dead bird (not necessarily even the one that had been temporarily isolated).

I've come to look at them as little, feathered dinosaurs,  who will occasionally turn on their own. Boredom buster ideas like Jay's are great - I sometimes also hang suet feeders, a small head of cabbage, a metal basket with veggies, put up mirrors (they're always fascinated by that!), a small bell to peck - things that will entertain a parrot will also entertain chickens - just do them in an 'industrial size', to withstand the beatings chickens can dole out. And, making them yourself is much less expensive, and more fun for you.

Things that entertain chickens...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlGVFD0qB8g

Yes - there are a number of videos about chicken entertainment. My friend suggested an easy one - a used tennis ball hung up. Spread peanut butter on it, then roll it in bird seed. They will hopefully peck at that instead of each other and it can be renewed as needed.

Carla Burke wrote:......
I've come to look at them as little, feathered dinosaurs,  who will occasionally turn on their own. Boredom buster ideas like Jay's are great .....

LOL!.....Much agreed.  Just when I think I've removed the most aggressive and obnoxious roo, a new villain arises to take his place!   Boredom busters combined with sufficient spacing can do wonders.  Example below of new 'boredom buster' joining the household.  Good news is she was already acclimated to chickens at previous farmstead so seems to have little interest in them.  But running through a flock of them is so much fun!!  After many dogs now, however, we know to keep an eye out if this behavior ramps up.  The two older dogs are a good influence as they long ago were trained against the activity.

Elanor Gardner wrote:Well I just completed chicken coop number 3. I suppose you may be wondering why I needed three coops. Well it's like this.

We've all been there.
If you've kept more than three chickens for more than a year, you've had to deal with pecking order issues.
It's a thing that chickens do. No worries. It's not you. It's them.

Elanor Gardner wrote:My rhode island reds are some feisty birds. They are not happy until they henpeck one of their flock to near death. We'll move the victim to a new coop, and a month or two later, they repeat the cycle with one of the remaining flock members. A week ago we tried to put the latest henpecking victim (we call her Miss Prissy) in with the first victim. (You would think they would be good friends seeing as they have a near death experience in common.) Only now Victim 1 (we also call her Miss Prissy) has regained her strength, and is feisty, and wants to kill the latest henpecked victim. Hence, the third coop. I put it inside the run of the second coop. Hopefully they will look at each other for a week or so, and get used to each to each other and then I can remove the third coop. (Hopefully, meaning before winter...)  The third coop was built of scraps but is sturdy and safe. It was extremely hard to build as I am on day three of a nasty virus myself, and probably should have been resting. Oh well.

I'm sorry you're ill and hope you feel better soon!

About the chickens, the first few questions when talking about pecking order issues are always going to be the same:
How much space do you have for them?
How many birds do you have in total? What's the breakdown of gender?

Do you let them have time outside their enclosed space? Have you set up any play areas for them?

While we don't need details of their living area, it never hurts for you to think about what you can change and the ways you can easily do it.
The other members of this thread have given a lot of good advice - I'm thinking about adding a couple of tennis balls covered in peanut butter and seed to my yard, now.
I've tried the suspended cabbage and found that it took my flock a couple of days to figure out it was edible, but they then destroyed that poor cabbage in a short time.
I've also suspended other things with more or less success. Basically, if your flock enjoys a treat, making it into the goal of a challenge can add some interest to the whole situation.

Anytime they aren't pecking at each other is time well spent, in my opinion. Giving them new things to peck at, or play with and new situations to explore is a great idea, as is cycling through a few things that you discover you and they enjoy. Anything can become a habit if it's always present, so jazzing the area up by substituting something new or suspending a turnip instead of a cabbage, or some romaine, or ... will be just as wonderful.
A change is as good as a break, for chickens as well as people.

The problem with what to do with your injured is a bit more ... what do you want to do-ish.
I'm going to assume you want the injured girls to recover and eventually return to the flock. Wound treatment is going to have to be part of your plan - basic first aid for chickens, and domestic fowl in general, and some preplanning for a care chest for them.
I prefer what I call Wound Dust. or "magic blue powder", which is a mix of activated charcoal and sulpha powder. It's in a plastic bottle with a "poofer" so you can "poof" it on wounds. It helps the wound to clot and prevents a lot of infections and other secondary problems. I've used it on my husband with good results - it's NOT approved by ER doctors who have to use acetone to remove it when you take your husband in for stitches.

I keep a stock of Wound Dust, an aloe-based sunburn cream with lidocaine, vet wrap, Betadine, triple-antibiotic ointment, petroleum jelly, and a good scalpel set ready to go for chicken and bird care. It's done me well over the years and answers most of the immediate problems. My emergency orange Vet Box is kept in a prominent location, just in case.

Treat the obvious wounds, make sure they have water and good quality food, and let them heal. Time will take care of things and let you know what more might be needed.

As far as introducing them to each other, again you've been given some really good advice. Slowly, through fences, and with someplace to run to, is the best advice I have. The two injured hens will try to establish a pecking order between the two of them. Once they get settled, recover from everything, and you're ready to reintroduce both of them, just repeat on a larger scale. Lots of hiding places and safe spaces, lots of fences, and lots of time to settle down.  

Elanor Gardner wrote:Buy cinnamon queens, because rhode island reds are simply too feisty. That is really the moral of the story.

Well, you might want to try a new breed, or get a mixed lot of chicks and try a bunch of new breeds.
It depends on what your goals are, tolerances for different behavior, climate, space, and personal tolerances, ... There are a lot of factors that go into picking a chicken breed out of the breeds that are out there. A very quick lookup showed that there are between 53 and 500 breeds of chicken, depending on who you listen to and what you consider a "breed". That's a lot of variation! Take your time. There's no rush.

I have Dorkings. I highly recommend them to just about everyone. Everyone on Permies who has chickens will have a favorite breed or type.

I have had Cinnamon Queens. My surviving Cinnamon Queen, of the chicks I had started that year, was a spunky thing who earned the name "Little Red" from my husband who had noticed her around when he was feeding the flock for me. She managed to hide a nest and successfully hatch four chicks of assorted parentage.

I have had New Hampshire Reds. My surviving New Hampshire Red was a good hen for her 5-year stint in the flock. Gotta love a hen with sticking power!
I haven't had any Rhode Island Reds, to my knowledge, unless it was in the very early days of my chicken keeping. They would have been up against non-commercial Leghorns, which is not an enviable position for any bird.

Before you give up chicken keeping as a Bad Job, think about why you want chickens and what you want your relationship with your flock to be. That's always a good first start. You can then double-check that against what you've learned and see if there might be a good way forward for you.

Best of luck with your flock!

Thank you everyone. These are really great suggestions. In the main coop (pictured) we had 7 birds, now down to 5. The second coop currently has two, and coop 3 has one bird. I have zero males. They do not free range, except one at a time, if we are outside and able to protect them. I had Easter Eggers that were fine to roam around the yard. I then got the Rhode Island Reds, who refused to stay in my yard, would go to the neighbors and lay eggs in a burdock patch at the neighbors every day, and so I made the decision to keep them in their house and chicken run. There is a perch the long way across and also perpendicular to it, so we put in the most perching space we could. While I think there is enough room in both the house and run (see picture), I have not put too much thought into entertainment. That may be where things went wrong.  

Elanor Gardner wrote:...who refused to stay in my yard, would go to the neighbors and lay eggs in a burdock patch at the neighbors every day, and so I made the decision to keep them in their house and chicken run.

I also have a flock who loves to hide their eggs. So, I started watching to see about what time everyone was done laying. For my flock, that's about 1:30pm. So, I wait until about 1:30 -2pm, to let them out of the run. Now, I don't have to hunt, and they get to play outside - and we're all happy.

we have always had Rhode Island Reds without the problems you are facing.

Maybe the problem is something other than with the breed.

Maybe some of your hens are actually roosters.

That's a gorgeous coop! I'm a little jealous! (I'm also in the market for a coop, so I'm paying more attention to them.)
The three hens I see are beautiful and look great. They're healthy, so whatever problems you're having, their health is good.

I hope giving your flock something to do other than peck at each other helps solve the problems you're having.
It should go a long way to seeing you through to the Next Bright Idea your hens have. If nothing else, at least you know you aren't in this alone!

Best of luck while you move forward! You've got this!