Grape vines for shade

Does anyone have pruning or other advice for grape vines being used for shade, rather than for actual grape production? I mean, I don't mind grapes but my key objective is getting dense branching and lots of leaf cover where they grow. I have a couple of vines I planted last year to prune, and maybe 4 more new ones to add for this coming summer.

Background is that I have a long south-facing balcony that gets blazing hot in the summer. Some areas are protected with awnings and some really can't be due to things protruding from the house. I grow loads of things in planters and grow bags on the balcony.

Last year I started my project to get some shade on the walls of the house that are not protected by awnings. My go-to for this purpose is grapes, as they leaf out during the hot weather and lose their leaves, opening up your views again, in the winter.

I had uneven luck with my plants last year. My new Muscatel vines did fine planted in grow bags by themselves. Three others, two local varieties and a supermarket special, which I planted each in a grow bag with a tomato plant, all died. I think that grapes and tomatoes are bad companions.

Any pruning fertilizing etc. advice from folks to maximize leafing and branching rather than the usual goal of maximizing grape production? Any advice on new varieties or types of varieties to get for the new plants?

Dave de Basque wrote:Does anyone have pruning or other advice for grape vines being used for shade, rather than for actual grape production? I mean, I don't mind grapes but my key objective is getting dense branching and lots of leaf cover where they grow. I have a couple of vines I planted last year to prune, and maybe 4 more new ones to add for this coming summer.

Background is that I have a long south-facing balcony that gets blazing hot in the summer. Some areas are protected with awnings and some really can't be due to things protruding from the house. I grow loads of things in planters and grow bags on the balcony.

Last year I started my project to get some shade on the walls of the house that are not protected by awnings. My go-to for this purpose is grapes, as they leaf out during the hot weather and lose their leaves, opening up your views again, in the winter.

I had uneven luck with my plants last year. My new Muscatel vines did fine planted in grow bags by themselves. Three others, two local varieties and a supermarket special, which I planted each in a grow bag with a tomato plant, all died. I think that grapes and tomatoes are bad companions.

Any pruning fertilizing etc. advice from folks to maximize leafing and branching rather than the usual goal of maximizing grape production? Any advice on new varieties or types of varieties to get for the new plants?

I don’t have an answer for you, but the folks at Root Simple might.  https://www.rootsimple.com/about/

They have a great and quirky blog, and helped start the “urban homesteading” movement.  

Specifically I recall that they said that a big mistake they made was letting grapes ripen over their patio.  Before they could harvest them, various rodents did, dropping them all over the patio and making a huge mess.

My neighbor when we lived in Dallas, Had a patio cover that had a grape vine that added shade.

All he ever did was to trim stragglers.

I always wished I had a grape vine like that ....

I have a grape vines that shades the western side of my house
It grows along a cable tentioned with a ratchet strap

I manage it by stripping off vines that are not exactly where I want them.
Most years I strip the main vine back to a single unbranched horizontal branch except for vines that hang directly down from that.
It's never been too much.
This vine isn't a known variety, but the baby of a concord grape.
Its terrible at growing grapes for humans.

Your vines sound like they might need more root space or maybe just more water.

Grapes will take a few years to get established into a magnificent arbor.  Table grapes will generally create more of a canopy than wine grapes.  

I would give them plenty of room for their roots.  They do not appreciate competition.

Most of the pruning people do on grapes is to increase fruit production.   If you are wanting more shade I would not prune them until winter.  Just let them leaf out and grow all summer and trim back to the main branches at the end of the season.  
I think you will see good growth with plenty of water and some nice nutrient rich mulch for fertilizer.

If you’re set on grapes, or your climate demands them, so be it!

Two of my favorite vines for summer shade and winter sun are
passionvine and hops.  Passionvine, also called maypop, Passiflora incarnata, to prevent confusion.    It tolerates a freezing winter.  It does make fruit and they are edible, but not the culinary gourmet kind.  It will die to the ground in the winter, so you can just pull all the dead vines out of the way… and the strings you gave them to climb up, use for animal fodder or bedding or mulch or compost.  Harvested green and dried it has medicinal uses.  The flowers are elaborate and fragrant.  You can pick one and immerse it in a glass of water, and it will flavor the water.

Hops also dies to the ground, and makes all new vegetation each year.  Once spring warms up, they grow remarkably fast… up to 18 inches a day!

Lots of varieties to choose from if you are a brewer.  The hops “cone”(?) has plenty of medicinal uses.  The green shoots in the spring are eaten like asparagus, and it’s recommended that you do thin those shoots in the spring.

One thing I love about each of these is if you make a total mess of “pruning” one year, it all goes away and you can begin anew next year…. Or just try something new!

I'll be planting some maypops (Passionflower and Passionfruit) this year.  Their size might be more manageable while leafing out considerably but not requiring the constant pruning.  I live in zone 5 where they will die down to the ground in the winter and then come back the following year.  Maybe that would be something to consider if your area is not large.  The packet of seeds says that they grow to 15'.  We'll see.  Clematis, while not a fruit, is a lovely low-maintenance plant that would just require a trim at the end of winter.

One of the things I love about grape vines is that if I string up a wire in any direction, the vine (sometimes with a little help) will grow reliably along it and will leaf out and produce shade about 20cm/8" either side of the wire. Would passionflowers or hops do some equivalent of that? I've never had either.

Another question I have is about minimal pruning. I'm wondering if I can get away with doing absolutely none. We're now heading into late winter, and there are still some sickly looking green leaves in protected spots, lots of ratty little branchlets... So far I've just been letting nature take its course. The growth tips look pretty fried all around. I don't know if cutting back a bit would actually stimulate growth or if I am just creating busy work for myself. If my objective is leaf coverage and not fruit.

Thanks everyone for your contributions.

Dave, grapevines can be pruned as much as little as you want.  If you do prune, cut back to a bud.  When you choose which bud you are going to cut back to, pay attention to what direction the bud intends to grow.

As for hops, they will make a leafy “canopy”.  I’m going to post a photo of a commercial hop yard.  They grow 20 feet.  And in commercial hops yards, they select the shoots to a very few.  Once established, a hops plant will put up a lot of shoots.  You can divide the clump.  You can keep several shoots and put them up a fan shaped trellis.

I made a tipi shape from long fence rail type poles.  I put a picnic table underneath and adirondak chairs

Passionvine spreads.  I don’t know what their potential height is.

Dave, have you tried growing Clematis? It travels like crazy and is almost impossible to kill

Hi Dave. I once had a grapevine that was great for shading. But it got a fungus disease, it wasn't the right grape for my wet climate. Probably it was better for your climate (but it was a German variety, it was named 'Weintraube').
But I think your problem is: you want to plant them on the balcony, in a grow-bag or other container. As others said here too: grapes want a lot of space for their roots! Maybe there won't be any place left on the balcony after you planted your grapes in the right size container ...

Dave de Basque wrote:Another question I have is about minimal pruning. I'm wondering if I can get away with doing absolutely none. .

Yes, you do not need to do any pruning.

We had two grape plants that were never prune and they did just fine.

Dave, I wonder if you are dead set on growing a vine and in particular a grape vine or whether you have considered small trees that would do well in a pot.  I'm thinking that there are some citrus trees that would shade the area nicely.  A fig or banana might even work.  I am not familiar with zone 8 plants, but I'm thinking you might be able to get the shade you're looking for with something that is less work.  Does your balcony have another above it or is it open to the sky, because then you wouldn't be as restricted by ultimate size.  What exposure is it? South facing or other?  I once watched a show about growing vanilla, which is a vine in the orchid family...that would be fun!

For growing season pruning vines will snap  at a leaf junction while still in growth stage.  This means that if a vine intrudes where you do not want it snap it off.  It may grow small short branches in its place but seldom grow long to intrude on the space.  For grape production I snap them off one Leafe past where the cluster has started to keep them open to the sun and limit excessive vine growth.  With my vines trained 8 feet high the deer do much of this pruning for me.