Planning ahead; for the rest of my life

So I'm 17 and I have been wanting to farm for about 3 years after deciding to take up the family trade.* (though I've wanted to work with plants and animals since birth); I am going to be making some major decisions and just wanted some input from others who might have taken a similar route.

I am going to apprentice at my friend's  Biodynamic Farm and hopefully work at one of his resturant in the region. Starting in June.

October 15th I am dropping out of school and from studying while juggling between work at the farm and as a waiter to get a GED

After the year is up go to College of the Redwoods for Forestry

Depending on what time I enter college; spend one or two years there til I can get in the Santa Cruz small farm program (You have to be atleast 21).

Then from there try and get some land near the coast/redwoods and farm produce, fruit, and nuts; raise fibre to knit into gloves, scarves, coats, etc... and open a resturant in or near one of the major towns/cities to sale my produce and spread Weston Price's and my ancestors foodways and teachings.


I'm worried I won't get land and that I won't have skills outside this trade which can inhibit my opprotunities while waiting for said land. I also worrying that I won't have anything to fall back on if I can't get my farm saleing and since this is a rather specialized and unsuitible occupation in most real world applications I worry it can be all for nothing. Also having a GED can have an affect on the job search.

So any experience to help me out on this; it is a uncommon experience I guess but I think there might be a few on here with some tips to help me.

* My mom and her family were all farmers; but they left to go to SF when she was 17 & although I still have access to land probably 25 acres (which has regrown into dense forest) its in the south... in a place I don't know... with relatives who I met once in summer of '09... and its rather much like a sattelite village to a now gentrified town/city to New Orleans. I'm a Northern Californian so not my cup of tea.

the post can be moved as I have no idea where this should properly go.

you sound smart and driven! there will be a need for financial backing somehow or you will be on the slow track of saving money for your goals (which is fine too!) most people have a regularly paying job that gets them boosted into their own business. it is important to have a job that you enjoy and can help you reach your ultimate goals. in order to get investors, either through financial insititutions or personal investments you will need to demonstrate extreme financial responsibility and independence so I would focus on school and building your wealth and credit and a solid stable life. the planning for the farm and produce, resteraunt etc.....is valuable and fun and especially important ..motivating.... but don't forget or neglect the more mundane and less romantic aspects of life and business that are just as crucial if not more so. good luck!

Wow, Tropicdude, I didn't realize you were so young!

It is good to have plans and dreams.  You say you wish to drop out of high school on a particular date to start some of this.  I would recommend sticking with the school and graduating there unless there is really really strong reason not to.  In many cases a GED can substitute for a diploma but there are still many places that want to see that you can stick with something and graduate.  I don't know the details of that situation so I'm only giving you my immediate gut reaction.  I wouldn't drop out until after getting the GED.  If you drop out first, then say life rears it's ugly head and causes issues in getting the GED, it will just get harder.

If you have an option of sticking with "free" living arrangements while finishing school and working part time, you can save money.  Also if you can intern and do part time work on the side, perhaps you can save up some money there too.  Saving as much as you can will be important.  If you could channel your passion for growing plants/animals into some further education and then on to a "real" job to bring income to help you move forward on buying land/starting a business.  If you love what you do, the waiting till you can get land won't be as difficult.

What kind of jobs can you find that might let you work with animals or plants?  Large animal Vet Tech?  Perhaps working for an organic nursery?  Neither may pay big but might produce many opportunities.

I'm not sure if the dropping out of school is so that you can do the internship?  Any chance you could stick with school and still do the internship either at the same time or perhaps postpone the internship?
Since you have to wait till you are 21 for the one opportunity, it doesn't sound like you should rush to become a waiter.  Waiting tables is a grueling way to make a living and unless you are a bit of an actor that loves dealing with people, it might not make all that great a living.

Hone your writing skills as good written communication is important in business and writing business proposals and plans will be needed when you get to the point of trying to open a restaurant.

Good Luck with it.

imo if your going to skip school, skip college. you already went through so much school since you were a kid, it would be a shame not to finish and get a high school diploma. i know i have too many friends who failed, dropped out, or just gave up. they are not happy campers to say the least, or they just live a crappy life now because of so.

my only other suggestion is learn learn learn, as many skills as you can that will help you come time when you get your land. and be patient!!!

before you just drop out of school find out how many credits you need to graduate..my son graduated after his first semester of his sr year cause he had enough credits..i would at least try to get the diploma now ..first..before going on with your life..you don't need to rush it..no matter how much you think you do.

look for funding for your college in the meantime..start applying for grants..and work your college classes around the job hours that you'll be working ..with all the internet college courses and such that is so much easier than it used to be.

try to live on less than everyone else and avoid debt at all cost..pay as you go..then you'll be so far ahead of those that are spending and going in debt and not working in the meantime.

relax..breathe..

Oh that is so true, many graduate early now days. (depending on the school) I know of many people who start taking college classes while they are still in high school.  Heck, in some places you can get both your high school and college credits from the same class and the school systems pays for the college tuition!!!  I wish that was available when I was there.

Then again, I know there are terrible schools out there too (Brenda and I know about Michigan schooling which is generally very good.)

@Leah: Well I'm going to get atleast 10.00 an hour working as that is the minimum wage in SF; I only plan on getting a debit card since I know all to well the consequences of debt (My friend owes 15,000$). I am also wanting to go on the Farmlink program which is great as I only need to start out with a 2,000$ investment and anything more than that they'll match me. They also connect young farmers to land which is why I'm starting my cities community garden and doing an apprenticeship with my friend to prove to them my seriousness.

Those two things are also important because the need of experiencewhich can give me a better chance at the Santa Cruz program and their scholarship.

@TCLynx: I actually just finished talking to my counsler and she got me into thinking about an Adult diploma; which involves 3 2hour clsses a week and 60 less credits needed. Since the state has to give 4 years of highschool to students who want it my counseler thinks I should try my luck explaining to them my situation in my current location as leaving the 15th of October would be in the middle of the semester and says its best to finish it.

I am moving out exactly as I turn 18 for personal issues and will have to probably room with a co-worker and since I have no friends who live out there  so I don't think I will be able to find a free room.

I have a years experience of work; recently quiting my old job because of a great reduction of hours but I don't know if that'd be enough for anything more than minimum wage in the city.

@soil: I want to go up to CotR  because the environment and to learn more about non-timber forest products and the business behind saling them. Plus I want to spend some time in a college setting since it will probably be the only time I'll ever get it.

@Brenda: I have quite abit to do; I have alot to make up for since I had messed up my first  2 years. I plan on getting as many scholarships as possible luckly I have alot of options; but seeing as I'll be their only a year I don't think grants are needed.

Its easy enough for me to not buy things but I spend large amounts on food; but I'mtrying to kick the habit of going to resturants.


I'll update; class is ending I'll ask a few more questions later.

Lee

You can definitely save a lot of money by learning to prepare food for your self that you buy cheaper at a grocery store (avoid convenience stores because they charge big time for small amounts.)  A small crock pot and bags of beans will go a long way provided you don't mind beans.  (I learned not too long ago that the easiest way to cook beans is to rinse them and put them in a crock pot with water and turn on low overnight, by the next afternoon they should be ready for whatever doctoring you wish to do to them.  Much easier than soaking overnight then cooking of an hour or whatever.)  Making re-fried beans is really easy too.

Many of the other really handy food/money saving tricks are really easier once you have a more perm place as you probably don't want to accumulate lots of extra food preservation stuff while you will be moving around for the next several years.  But a crock pot is probably a good idea.

Sorry to hear you feel you must escape your current situation as soon as you reach 18, it is a shame to quit in the middle of the semester.  Do you have any where else reasonable to stay so you could finish the semester and move on then?

Perhaps between now and then you will find some opportunity that will work for you.  I like hearing that you are starting a community garden, that is the kind of thing that provides benefits of all sorts.

Good Luck with it all!!!

A couple of things....

First you do not have to trade a high-school diploma for a GED -   I have so many ways you can 'drop out' and still get your HS diploma!  I won't go into all the ways and details here, but we can continue talking if you are interested.  Here are a few....

1.  Free Online School from Home: Connections Academy - This is public HS paid for just the same as your local campus, and they will supply those in need with a computer and ISP funding!  Study on your own schedule, graduate just like anyone else.

2.  How about you homeschool - Do this the proper way and you get a HS diploma, designed and signed by an adult with first hand knowledge of your work (many easy ways to do this you'd be surprised) and you get to name your HS for this real, official HS diploma.   You will still have to pass your sats for college, like everyone one else, but you can 'study' specifically for them as part of your HS curriculum - very cool.

3.  And many more ways in between these two - so if you need more freedom and flexibility while completing your HS D it is soooooo very doable   No worries there.


Next important issue -
As mentioned, guard your credit rating like a vicious dog!  Don't fall into the trap of running a balance on non-essentials and/or small ticket items.  Always pay off your balances.  And if you get college loans, take 3 - night or correspondence classes to defer your loan until you have saved up the money to pay if off in full.  I never paid any interest on my college loans, and deferring or paying them off meant I was never late on a payment.  This helped my credit rating when I was young and life was a bit precarious.

On to College -
To go to college or not.... hum, this is very controversial, there is a lot of pro-college propaganda.  Speaking as someone with a college degree, and who has taught at universities, as well as developed college course curriculums: I would recommend if your 'joy' (what you love) not your 'plan' demands you open doors in any bureaucracy or urban business then yes you should take a serious look at college, because that's how the game is played.  And be assured it is a game.

But it sounds like you dream of farming, ranching and being an entrepreneur in an unconventional ways.  You will need knowledge and skills for this, but not necessarily a college degree.  Of course it still depends on many things. 

I have always worked in universities, or done private business instruction, workshops and seminars so a degree was helpful, but if I had chosen agg and/or to work for myself as I do now I would have gone another route than college    If you decide to skip college, then spend that time to develop professional, marketable skills that will open doors in the areas you want to operate in much the same as a college degree would.  It can be done, but you will need a plan and the same amount of hard work.  No short cuts.

There is much good advise to be gleaned from everyone's input here.

Interning to earn money and resume skills is fabulous advise.  And there are so many permaculture opportunities that offer travel, place to live and learning in exchange for your labor and time.  So this might be good to do in between school sessions, and then later on for money in a traditional internship.

Waiting tables is a grueling way to make a living and unless you are a bit of an actor that loves dealing with people, it might not make all that great a living.

Very true - and waiting tables is very hard to do while you are doing school.  There are other PT jobs that make the same amount of money but won't be as stressful.  So read, research and be creative... I was a bartender (don't recommend it) and house/animal sitter (great job) while going to college.  I did much better working in between school sessions and not while I was studding - so give yourself more options in this regard. 

Hone your writing skills as good written communication is important in business and writing business proposals and plans will be needed when you get to the point of trying to open a restaurant.

Also very true!

One other thing:  Most private schools, such as culinary arts, have scholarships so you may be able to pick up the training you need at a reduced cost.  Or be able to do a work-study program with a private school as well.  I know for a fact that grants and loans are much less available now in public institutions than ever before, so maybe private schooling will give you the leg up you seek.

my only other suggestion is learn learn learn, as many skills as you can that will help you come time when you get your land. and be patient!!!

diversity - it's good for plants AND people 

try to live on less than everyone else and avoid debt at all cost..pay as you go..

relax..breathe..

Yes, I often stopped college to payoff loans.  this is good advise so you don't become financially or or emotionally overwhelmed.

Make sure you finish your HS diploma, one way or another ♥  There are ways to achieve all the goals you stated, so relax...breathe (good advise).   You are already ahead of the curve by just knowing what you want and starting to plan.

And if you need help writing a professional resume - you can pm me.

On debt: If you never have any, the system will not know to trust you. I would advise getting a credit card ASAP, but never carrying a balance for over a month. Certainly never using it as it was intended! Only using it to establish a credit rating.

On college: from Ran Prieur's advice page,

February 23, 2007. Guest post from Patricia: How to get a college education and not sell yourself into bonded servitude for the next 10 to 25 years:

1. Choose a large state, or state-related university. You can always transfer "up" closer to the end, if you want to have a Big Name School on your piece of paper. State schools have a wide variety of programs, normally well respected, and they always offer much cheaper tuition to in-state students. Make sure they offer tuition to employees! Almost every one at least offers half, usually 100% to staff for undergraduate course-work in any field, regardless of your job on campus. They employ hundreds and hundreds of people in relatively low-paying, low-competition, high-security, good benefits, staff jobs. Positions may or may not be low stress [stay clear of anything medical!] or have much slack time, but they will have lots of paid holidays, no overtime, and paid vacation and sick days, and offer affordable health insurance.

2. Move to the cheapest place you can find on a good bus line to campus.

3. Start trying to land any type of employment with that university. Most big colleges have their own temp programs, which can get you in the door, and also earning some money, quickly.

4. Watch for a good full or part-time staff level position that looks like you could do it without too much effort. When you get one, begin school one or two classes per term, until you are sure about what you want to do there. If you are in no hurry, you can take your time and earn your entire degree this way, and never go into any debt at all.

5. If you want to finish faster, see if you meet the conditions to be declared an independent student. If you do, you have a much better chance of getting grant money from your state government. Grant money is free, but you often have to be quite poor to qualify.

Note: Some states, like Georgia, offer part or full tuition to all their high school grads who keep a certain grade average if they want to attend a state school full time. This is more or less how higher education works in the rest of the industrialized world -- you pay for room, board and books, but the classes are free to any citizen with good scores.

On land ownership: it seems like land in CA will become cheaper as the US economy becomes less tied to Asia. It seems to me that change might get significantly far in the timeframe you're interested in.

It might be worth introducing yourself to Novella Carpenter some time: she usually announces events at her farm well ahead of time, on her blog. I think her method of working as a writer while squat farming has some real merit in this particular time and place.

Well thanks for  the help; I guess for most of y'all its the biggest thing which is understandable but really its going to be hard to stay in highschool mostly because the environment doesn't stimulate me except while in History class. I'm 18 so when I move (as this is final for me) as far as I am aware no highschool has to take me and neither is it safe for me to be in such an environment not knowing anyone.

But the job I hope to get is very laid back; even on "busy" nights its still filled with people acknowledging that things take time and the atmosphere is very chill (A raw vegan place; all the people are so nice).

But my plan; it seems solid right? Right now I am looking for local work to save up and buy a car and pay for my license and in June I will start my first apprenticeship.

I'm thinking that by showing prospective sellers I have real-life skills they might be willing to go on a lower price than say someone who has only read or just want to grow; a little bit of me even hopes after the Santa Cruz scholarship that someone might be willing to give me their land after a number of years of work.

I applied to that same Santa Cruz farming program and got "wait listed" ie rejected, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me.  You don't need to pay to learn how to farm; in fact, getting into debt at a young age will just make everything harder financially, maybe for the rest of your life even. 

That Santa Cruz program is for truck farmers who want to have a CSA.  Their program is very good, but you'd be disappointed if you go there for anything like permaculture training. A really big thing is that they aren't allowed by the college to have animals on their land.  That's like, the other half of farming, in my opinion. 

And I'd echo the fact that it's a good idea to finish highschool.  Most of the colleges you mentioned will be much MUCH MUCH less likely to accept your application if the thing starts off with a GED.  It's not the same as a diploma.  Schools aren't going to be impressed that you couldn't handle four years of basic education.  How are you to prove that you can go on to another four to six years of advanced education? 

If you don't want to learn in school anymore, that's understandable and fine.  But you should move your path to entirely non-institutional learning if that's the journey that calls you.

And don't give up so quickly on your family land!  A close proximity to New Orleans sounds like an amazing opportunity for food selling, in my opinion!  Land without debt is a HUGE HUGE asset.  Seriously. 

So what is the time line again?
We are now the start of 2010 and you are now in the middle of your Junior Year in High school at age 17 right?
Then next you are planning on a internship this summer is that right?
Then because you don't turn 18 till October you will be starting your senior year in the fall, planning to drop out on your birthday and move away from home?

Or does the internship happen the June After?

I'm a bit confused on the timing too....

Just FYI -  google finishing high school early - there are some cool tips and tricks to cutting through to 'done'!  And you have well past 18 to get a high school diploma, so between faster or longer you should be able to fit a real diploma into your life, even if your doing it while attending some other educational experience. 

It sounds like you've already made up your mind on these points.  I'd skip college before I'd trade a GED for a diploma, especially when I could control my educational experience like we can today - just me.

And a detail I forgot to mention regarding college and your credit - make sure you only take Federally back student loans, not private ones.  The Fed backed ones are deferred with no interest incurring, while the private loans only have the principle deferred.  The interest is racking up against you all the while.  So not all loans are created equal, remember that.

@MarinaJade: I would only go on the program if I was also given the "Diversity Scholarship"; it is way too overpriced and could not/would not pay for it. For me its like a piece of paper that says "Look I went through a college program that is well known" which is good when going through a organization like Farmlink.

I don't think I want to grow back down there to farm; I'd help a cousin in putting it all together but the climate and weather is out of my realm of knowledge and I feel like California is my home (Plus it rains in Summer! How crazy is that  ). Plus the gentrifaction of the major town has caused the people kicked out to trickle in the village, making crime abit more prevalent than my liking.

I could never go to college for more than 4 years I really only want to go to CotR because of friends and to scout for land and UCSC because I know that the climates are alot alike (Plus I love the coast). I don't really mind if there is no permaculture in the program; I will have a background in biodynamics and will have a permaculture inspired community garden by this time.

@TCLynx: From June 2010 to Oct 14th I will be working at my friend's farm and commuting to his resturant and I will also possibly do a program to catch up and leave school earlier. The school year start mid-August and between that time and Oct. will get ready to transfer out if I have to to a school closer to the resturant or get intouch with the Adult Diploma people.

On the 15th I will pack up and move into a apartment with some/a roomate(s) from one of the resturants and then commute to the farm weekly. Finish with my diploma/GED and stick around until 2011.

August 2011 move up to Arcata and then to the (community) College of the Redwoods to get some basics in Forestry for two years and then 2013 go to Santa Cruz and aplly for the program.

If I get accepted (With the notification being sent out on my 21st Birthday) and receive the Diversity Scholarship I will go down their and take the 6 month course.

@Jami Mcbride: I plan on getting scholarships and paying out of pocket; luckly their are dozens that are basically begging to be used but there are not many who know about or are elligible to use them (with preference to black American, People of color, Community-Leaders; but I'm also applying on Jewish and Forestry/agriculture scholarships aswell). With any luck I can get more than enough.

They only accept 30 people a year, right?  I wouldn't count on getting the scholarship, it's an extremely competitive program (not that I need to tell you that).  When I visited, the agricultural director for the entire country of Kenya (I think, or maybe Nigeria) was one of the students, to give you an idea of who gets accepted.  He was so inspiring to talk to!  If you think the USA has problems, talking to someone from Africa for 15 minutes shifts your perspective.....

Just advising you to have other options so that if it doesn't work out, you have something else lined up.  You have to pay $40 just to apply, you know.  If you're so concerned about your education being cheap, there are many places that will pay you to work and learn at the same time. 

You seem to feel your diversity gives you an advantage in following your course of action, and you have thought things out fairly well...... So maybe if you state exactly what your fears or concerns are people could better advise you.

There is a lot of good 'general' advise and wisdom here, but I get the feeling it is not what you were hoping for.

Were you hoping for backup suggestions of other programs similar to what your looking at, just in case things don't go your way? 

you do have the exuberance and faith of the young, that's for sure....

Do you have failure built into your plans?  Failure is part of a natural system, usually during the build towards and always following the climax of it's fertility.  Being an unavoidable part of any cycle it's important to ask yourself the question 'what do I do if I fail?'.  I never set out to do what I am doing now: farming.  I set out to work with computers and go to medical school.  I failed and I am happier than ever.  Is catastrophe built into your plans?  It should be.

@MarinaJade: I somhow always have been given the chance to do awesome things and meet interesting people. I think that although I might not be at the same level as the Agricultural Director of an entire nation I feel I can be a part of this as a new peice to the changing demographics. Though I'd like to know some reputable non-tropical small farm at a Uni other than UC Davis; I really do want a backup I just don't know that many that are established.

My sister-in-law is from the DRC; although her and her mother talk about issues and atrocities, although they were part of the well-off class decendants of the Colonizers and the various daughters of traditional leaders (Much like the upperclass people in Mexico and Peru)

@Jamiemcbride: Although I dislike it, people really like to have me do things to show how "diverse" what ever organization/group I'm a part of; although it tokenizes me and I feel they only see/want to see a certain aspect of me to show what ever PC thought or ideals are going on I feel it as a trade off. I can do stuff I like; people get there Kodak moment for a website, think they understand the situations and issues I have when dealing with the larger world, & feel like they are helping me out everyone wins.

I just worry about not having a oppritunity to get land or to get into the program that I want. But its the land issue that worries me more owning land is extremely important, but there isn't enough land for every qualified farmer and my ideal would be larger than 50 acres.

Like I said Marina; if you know any similar organizations to get land or that have very well known apprenticeships in the coastal California region that'd be great. I just don't know any that aren't only a few years old.

The education things I guess are the biggest deal as are the money issues but I really wasn't focusing on those parts; Ijust wanted to know if theplan itself seemed like it could work and if not what should I do to fix/prepare/update what ever is the problem.

@Shamanmonkey: I have always  thought about the negative but my two friends are pushing me off that; 1 was in a really bad situation and by staying positive and keeping up her hope she was able to get a job, get into a program get thousands of dollars worth of debt wiped off because of her program and she was able to get a place, car, and her kids back.

She said that thinking  negativily brings negativity and is into Metaphsyics and the  "secret" so I am really hoping it'll be best to not worry about that sort of thing, and trying to learn more.

Being prepared for alternatives (or failure) is not the same as thinking negatively.  It can actually be an even more extreme form of positive thinking.  As in, turn what some might think of a terrible loss of an opportunity (like not getting the program or scholarship) into broadening your outlook into something new you might love and otherwise never have thought about.

Mainly, if something doesn't work out to your plan, don't let it get you down, let it teach you something or think of it as a chance to try something different or new.

If you're interested in the metaphysics of The Secret, you might want to get the full picture on it.

The Secret is a subset of hermeticism, in the broader general category of sympathetic magic. That's an extremely broad category (arguably including Vodou and homeopathy), but hermeticism is a lot more narrowly defined. Wikipedia might be a good place to start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism

I'm not very deep into that sort of thing, but people I've talked to say The Secret has had all of the challenging parts of the metaphysics edited out in order to sell better.

I can't think of where else to put this.  It isn't about permaculture.  MD seems to be the catch-all.

Don't worry - everybody knows that some really meaningful and non-drivel stuff gets discussed here.

I suggest that you DON'T get a car.

Have you looked at wwoofing?

Out of everyone giving you advice (and it's all been good), I'm probably the person most able to remember what being 17 was like, as that was barely 8 short years ago.  I applied to that program four years ago and was really disappointed that I didn't get in, but it opened doors that I never knew were there!  I have a feeling by the time you're 21 you'll have found such an awesome farming situation you'll forget all about it.....There's nothing wrong with applying, but be realistic about the chances of acceptance, and research other opportunities outside a university.

A place that was recommended to me for farming experience was Camp Joy, it's a bit south of Santa Cruz. 

Some bits of what you say seemed to indicate there was physical violence in your environment, heavy and some that you are of African origin so inclined to suffer from idiots thinking you are an idiot i suppose. 
  Your interest in things and how well you write seem to indicate that school is a good place for you. i don't like reading about plants but i love knowing the stuff, learning has long time rewards while eating a sweet has short term ones.  If you are at school you get so much of the intellectual that you don't realise you like it, you get over done, it is in adult life when you find yourself with people who don't give any seriouse conversations at all though or barely any, they may pretend to mentioning the names of articles they have read to keep their ends up, that you realise you like serious conversations, on topics that are vital because they relate to human survival an dwell being  farming politics history etc. You have no idea how difficult it often is to get that sort of mental food in adult life so over produced at school in adult life and how much you come to miss it.

  There is, i think an idea prevalent at the moment , my psychology i pick up, divine, from bits of television programs and conversations, which says that baring things is what make people successfull, that is is not being clever but your ability to bare boredom, to work through bits of books that are dry and complicated, take stress and such that make it probable that you will be successfull, so someone educated by someone like my mother who thinks you can only do it if you have the right sort of intelligence not if you can work through it, is a enormous disadvantage.  It is your ability to bare pain, understood as boredom, discomfort at trying when you don't know enough to learn easily, which i suppose is insecurity  embarrassment at awkward social or work situations  that make you a winner.

  and there exists a connected idea but slightly different, that  it is being with people you find difficult that teaches you about people. That depends i think, you can be with them and learn nothing about them, you never realise they mean what they say if it seems to you outrageous and are inclined to pick up on opinions they mention that seem probably to you and not believe or hardly hear those you think improbable or too difficult for that person. being confrontational helps you understand peole,teaches you things, when youquestion them and they  insist on beliefs you think stupid or ugly you know for sure they really hold them. You learn more if you are confrontational and learning about people is important in doing deals employng people living with your family baring bosses or not baring them. etc necessary maybe you are good at it anyway. rose macaskie.

  Did you indicate that being at school without knowing anyone would be phisically dangerous? You did not say why you would be at a school were you did not know everyone, because of leaving home i suppose, though you also did not say it would be home you were leaving . Also baring parents is a way to get yourelf on through different levels of education. unless they are going to damage you phisically. though just getting out and doing things could make you more successfull than staying at home. you would leave home . SHe did try to gert me to work through things but she was to full of the idea that the right sort of brain was needed fo reach task and that contered her attempts to make me work.
It is hard to know, with the young, if their parents are really unbearable  or if the young person has very little power to bare smallish problems. i suppose that is easier if you talk at length to the young person always accepting that he or she is outgoing.

As to waiting in restaurants and being tiring, i worked four hours in the morning cleaning flats and four in the afternoon one holiday and though i was bored working i really enjoyed life doing it. I am not sure how hard any job is for whom at what age. The Spanish cycle rider Indurain who won races like the tour de france for some years had a more efficient heart than others, so it seems to me hard to know what tothers might or might not be able to do . I doubt i could have done all those hours cleaning flats and studied.
i also worked in a pub in the morning one holiday an it was easy . i did study in the afternoon in the library I meant to study in. rose macaskie.

paul wheaton why do you suggest that he does not get a car ? Aren't cars usefull for doing lots of jobs? rose

rose macaskie wrote:
paul wheaton why do you suggest that he does not get a car ? Aren't cars usefull for doing lots of jobs? rose

At such a young age, the car owns you. 

You work to pay for the gas and he insurance and (ack) the car payment. 

I have met heaps of young folks that work because they HAVE TO make that car payment, car insurance payment, etc.  And where they work is limited based on what they can afford for gas.

If they have no car, then life gets far easier.