Home Back Up Tesla Powerwall3 or EcoFlow Solar Generator?

We live in hurricane country, and once lost power for 12 days. We're running two freezers and two refrigerators, so the food loss could be substantial. Here's the issue:

We have a grid tied 3600W solar panel array on the roof. We can apparently hook up two Tesla Powerwalls (about 27kw storage total) to the solar, OR we can get a solar generator system with stackable batteries, and plug the required appliances (or anything else we need) into the inverter on the solar generator. While it's purportedly portable, the solar generator is a BRUTE, especially if I'm getting three or more batteries (6kw each). We're getting up there in age, and we're really looking for a system that provides the necessary juice without the drama of setting the system up.

The four appliances would pull about 2000W/hr. So if we judiciously plug in the freezers for a few hours per day, 27kw would go a long way even without the solar recharge. I figure that with the solar recharge, we'd be pretty well energy independent indefinitely.  I'm leaning towards the Tesla Powerwalls but wonder if anyone here has info I might not have considered.

I am open to any suggestions!

Thanks so much!

Just double checking your math on the power draw for the coolers, since 2KW/hr sounds high. An ordinary fridge ought to pull a couple hundred W (100 or less if it's an efficient model) and *only runs half the time or less* so you should have more room in your power budget there. On the other hand, getting full rated capacity out of any battery unit is optimistic at best, and diminishes notably over time.

I can't speak much to specific manufacturers or models, but having a simple, reliable, non-spontaneously combusting, 'plug and play' system with solid warranty would be key in my mind. Tesla certainly carries some baggage as a brand right now. Might look at https://bigbattery.com or a few other comparables out there too, and find out what a large inverter and wiring, permits etc will cost versus the all-in-one generator packages.

Hi I have a critical load panel powered by Enphase batteries, about 3 kWh.
It has been flawless for 3 years, with multiple outages up to 3 days, driving 2 refrigerators, large freezer, wifi and  few outlets.
The battery is small for the price, but we have an 11 kW solar PV array, so even a little light on a cloudy day will recharge the battery.
I thought about the portable solar 'generator' battery, but would have to be
here to plug in loads. cheers Doug

Cara Campbell wrote:We live in hurricane country, and once lost power for 12 days. We're running two freezers and two refrigerators, so the food loss could be substantial. Here's the issue:

We have a grid tied 3600W solar panel array on the roof. We can apparently hook up two Tesla Powerwalls (about 27kw storage total) to the solar, OR we can get a solar generator system with stackable batteries, and plug the required appliances (or anything else we need) into the inverter on the solar generator. While it's purportedly portable, the solar generator is a BRUTE, especially if I'm getting three or more batteries (6kw each). We're getting up there in age, and we're really looking for a system that provides the necessary juice without the drama of setting the system up.

The four appliances would pull about 2000W/hr. So if we judiciously plug in the freezers for a few hours per day, 27kw would go a long way even without the solar recharge. I figure that with the solar recharge, we'd be pretty well energy independent indefinitely.  I'm leaning towards the Tesla Powerwalls but wonder if anyone here has info I might not have considered.

I am open to any suggestions!

Thanks so much!

Cara, the Tesla wall was created mostly as a way to do peak shaving in areas like California. It's other functions were really add ons. It's trying to rebrand itself as an outage unit as well but it is pricy. I would start by asking what kind of equipment do you have for your net metered system. Most of the hybrid inverters out there that take batteries can either do AC coupling with your original inverter or replace it completely but have a battery element as well for outages. You would want to limit the draw during outages by concentrating the critical loads onto a separate electrical panel and then the system run seamlessly. For solar generators the problem is you won't be able to use you existing array to recharge them.  Your consumption figures seem really high too. A fridge would not use more than 2kWHr per 24 hr cycle. It might have a peak rating of say 1000 watts but that does not mean it uses that all the time just at start up. A good tool is a kill a watt meter that measure power usage over time. It's cheap, plugs into the outlet and measures consumption of devices over time. I also use the plug in wifi meters from emporia to measure devices. Setup is more annoying but it will graph it all online for you.
So, figure out what equipment you already have, see what is compatible with it, figure out real consumption.of what you want to run, isolate the loads on their own panel .
Cheers,  David

Thanks for the replies. I apologize for the slow response, but I've been doing more research based on the responses. It seems that my two freezers will actually draw around 1.7kWH per day, while one refrigerator draws about 2.4KWH per day. Throw in just a few lamps at night, and I'm looking at about 4.5KWH per day. So, yes, my initial estimate of usage was really high! We DO have a kill a watt meter, if I can find it, so I'll have a more accurate estimate. Thanks to all for the suggestions.

I have no issue with Tesla, and I did a search for Enphase, as well as some other options. I've contacted the installer who did my solar panels back in 2009, and I'm getting an estimate on the whole shebang. Yes, a separate panel for the essential appliances might be the answer, but doing the whole house might be easier, and just don't use non-essential circuits.
We don't air condition, don't have a t.v., and our hot water and stove are natural gas.

I'd LOVE it if we could essentially go off grid, although Florida law (or least least my county) requires being tied to the grid in some way.

Thanks for the help!

Being in a major metro area, the longest sustained storm outage I've had to deal with so far was about 5 days. I tried to bring all my frozen foods into the fridge at work, but the freezer didn't work in their unit. Grrr.

I don't feel the need to pretend that life is normal in such situations and don't have anything as ambitious as a powerwall, but after enough outages I learned what the essentials were and have built up accordingly. Cooking via camp stove or charcoal grill (or solar - my automobile dashboard clocks at over 145 degrees!), light via LED lights with solar-recharged, hot water from a camp shower. USB fans for after the post-storm coolness passes. Raspberry Pi powered off 12 UPS battery, solar recharged via a 25W panel, ditto for charging phones/tablets, etc.

The hardest part was saving the refrigerator. It would take about 3600W for a generator that would get used only once every 2-3 years so the seals rot and gasoline drips on the hot motor. And the gas stations are all going to be useless when you run out. So I got some solar panels, an inverter and an icemaker.

Back when my last-but-one refrigerator died I lived out of an ice chest for about a week and estimated that I needed about 10lbs of ice per day to keep it going. The current crop of tabletop icemakers can spit out 28 lbs of ice in 24 hours and mine pulls only 104 watts, so with a better-insulated ice chest I figured I was set. Until last September when I fired it up and the water line clogged and the ice was grossly undersized. A replacement pump and better line routing have fixed that, but when I saw ads for refrigerator/freezers that run straight off 12V for about the same price, I jumped.

It's not a large unit, but it will hold all the frozen dinners and keep them at -4 degrees F. And, unlike the icemaker, runs straight from the solar battery with no need for an inverter. And it pulls about 48 Watts.

It's not as impressive as a multi-kilowatt keep-the-AC-running system, but it's cheap and addresses the essentials. Just by way of comparison.


To run a full-sized refrigerator, the old figure I'd heard was to expect a draw of about 1KW/hr. Probably newer ones do better, but I cannot easily get to my power cord to measure what I'm currently using.  Note that KW/hr per day is only meaningful when computing your electric bill. KWH can tell you how fast you'll draw down the batteries, but the ultimate factor is the max amperage (Watts) the unit requires. My icemaker nominally draws 104 Watts, but when the compressor motor first kicks in, it spikes to about 600W. I have to get a 1KW inverter to run it because even a 500W inverter would trip on that overload, even though it probably only lasts a few milliseconds. The same restrictions apply to large refrigeration units as well. You can avoid this problem by getting a propane-powered refrigerator, but they tend to be overpriced and under-sized due to lack of popular market interest (except in camping units).

Keeping freezers running can be an issue,  this is why I have opted to not buy a freezer, but instead buy canned food and can my own food.      

This is also why I have been running experiments in storing food in 55 gal barrels underground, so that if I have an externded power outage my food would not be affected.


That said, I do recommend Will Prowse channel on youtube, and his forum for navigating thru the myriad of different choices out there.


Cheers,

I'm not prepping for the Zombie Apocalypse. But storm outages do happen here and I just wanted to be able to live normally outside of the loss of service.

While I did a lot of pickling this year and some dehydrating, frozen dinners are still a convenience on occasion. I do try to reduce the freezer inventory come storm season, but there are limits, so I just needed a way to keep the really essential items frozen until the grid comes back up or I eat them all, whichever comes first.

I also triage, I keep flour in the freezer to minimize it getting stale. That can go to room temperature. Frozen vegetables can go in the ice chest and eventually thaw if the mini-freezer is full. Refrigerator contents likewise triage. The carrots and celery really just need a little cool. Quite a few of the condiments really don´t require refrigeration at all - it's just recommended. stuff like cheese can get by on merely-cool as well.

The goal is to minimize the amount of stuff that I have to throw out if the lights are off for a week. The fridge is safe for about 3 days and I have temperature alarms on it. So I think I probably can handle it.

Also , I like to keep what I call ¨Indian MRE's¨. This is the stuff that comes in shelf-stable pouches and pretty well provide a full meal, although some rice or roti on the side makes it more balanced. I used to pick these up cheap at the local Indian grocer, but some are now in the International section of my local supermarket.

Mart Hale, Everyone,

You are dead on correct about the Will Prowse series.  I have watched several of them and many of my builds have been influenced by these very helpful videos.


For what it’s worth, my recommendation to the OP is to go with the dedicated backup system as opposed to the Tesla PowerWall.  I am sure that you pay a premium for the Tesla name and I would just find the alternative an overall better approach.  

Now that opinion is just me.  And I really like this kind of stuff.  Heck, if I were in your situation, I wouldn’t buy a dedicated backup system, I would build it from the battery *cell* up.  I am finishing a mini version of this now.  But again, this is me and my preference and my specific interests and talents.  Yours will be different—you are a different person of course.  And if you find the PowerWall appropriate for, then who am I to fault you.

As for battery longevity, I think that either has sufficient capacity meet your needs.  Now combine that with solar and a small generator—I bet that a small inverter generator would work just fine for charging and just dip fuel—and you would be set to ride out some very long power outages.

Good luck, please keep us updated as to your decision!!


Eric

The best people to ask about Powerwalls are those who used them during the Texas Freeze.

Like Eric, I built a mini-system from the ground up. There are limits to what amounts of electrical force I'm comfortable handling.

The other advantage for the mini-system being that in the Free State of Florida, a backup system that connects to your house wiring not only has to interface safely to the mains (please don't fry the linemen!) but is also subject to meddling by the state's electric utilities. All my stuff is totally separate from the house wiring.

You should be able to charge a PowerWall from panels, though to get the best price you may have to hurry. Once the new beautiful regulations kick in, your cheapest alternative is probably going to be a coal-fired steam generator.

I tend to grind my teeth when I hear "Solar power generator". What those things really are are battery/inverter all-in-ones and they don't "generate" squat. They have to get their batteries charged from external panels (usually sold separately) or the mains.  That said, I did just order a small one for my wife. She has been frustrated by having to unplug her piano when thunder rolls in and doesn't like it when she asks when it will stop and I answer "October".

As time progresses, I expect to see better bargains on both solar and batteries. Stuff being retired from primary duty is still good enough to run lesser loads, though at the moment, even used EV batteries aren't cheap.

A third option is multiple smaller power banks, one for each appliance, set up as uninterruptible power supplies. They are a much more manageable size and you need zero electrician involvement. Dial in the size of each based on the load.

Charging them from your solar is a challenge to diy, though.

We aren't near as far along with the solar use at our small farmstead as I would like and really benefit from reading entries like this.  Farther north as we are, the storms we consider are mostly summer tornadoes or winter ice storms. Deep winter of course allows us to unplug for a few months the multiple chest freezers which sit in an unheated garage space.  The discussion on brands of battery banks and sizing has me leaning more towards the 'build-you-own' approach for several reasons.  First and most timely would be to move to the next step on upgrading from lead-acid to LiFePO4 (...or sodium??....or solid state??....the changes are occuring so fast!) a utility golf cart and electric Polaris Ranger 4X4 that are workhorses on the property.  Oodles of offerings out there for lithium upgrades, but almost all require modification of the vehicle battery compartment to accomodate the unusual LiFePO4 battery dimensions being sold.  It really would be nice to source a battery box that would be a more useful fit in the vehicle compartment, .... and THEN position the cells within to achieve the desired power, BMS circuitry, etc.  All of this something I would love to learn.  As there always is the "great deal" out there on the internet for batteries with little confidence in true specs, warranty or dependability, is there some way that DIY-ers determine which battery brands or cells are safe bets in this regard?  It would also seem that customizing a battery bank would benefit homeowners for many of the reasons discussed in the thread.....mobility of the power bank vs. size, location, and space considerations.  If there is a good starting resource on the internet for building your own that others have found to have sound approaches and advice, I would be grateful for any links.  

Like the OP, we are getting up there in years and weight, size, and complexity of these systems becomes more of a factor as a consequence.  I'm certainly grateful for the advancing plug-n-play nature of modern solar and storage systems and just hope the momentum keeps building in this area.

Eric Hanson wrote:Mary Hale, Everyone,

Please don't change my gender ;-)    it is Mart  not Mary   ....


Peace.

We purchased an EcoFlow Delta 3 and an EcoFlow River unit.  The Delta 3 kit came with two 250W solar panels and a manual transfer switch that can run 6 dedicated "critical circuits" at 20 Amps each. Two of them are set up for 220 V.
The River is a small portable unit and I have it in the well pump house. It can run four 20-amp, 120V circuits. It can run the jet pump and the piping heat tape in case of power outage. I need to get panels to recharge the River.
For the $ spent, I think this is the most economical system type available, with the least amount of work and drama. If you want to run the whole house, you may need more equipment.

I am in the middle of permanently setting up the Delta to charge via the panels and run the 6 critical circuits, hopefully completely off-grid. I still don't know how long the delta will last on its own and whether I will need an additional battery to make this work but will know more in a week or two.

It would depend a lot on whether your solar panels are smart or dumb, but for dumb panels I could just attach a plug to the charge controller and matching connectors to each power bank. I highly recommend a polarize connector like those 2-wire ones common in automobile wiring to avoid accidents.

By dumb, I mean that the panel is just the photovoltaics with that wire straight to the charge controller as opposed to something that comes with its own inverter or other onboard/near-board electronics.

A note on small-system batteries. I started with a deep-cycle marine-style battery and it failed less than a year in despite never having seen a load. Probably just a bad battery. I replaced it with an AGW from Renogy (a respected name in solar) and that battery is still doing fine.

I've been using lead-acid because the battery lives in an unsecured cabinet and a cheaper battery is less attractive to thieves (or at least less expensive to replace). As other battery technologies get more mature/cheaper, I´d like to move up, but what I have is sufficient.

Mart,

I am sorry about the gender change.  My iPhone auto corrected on me.  


I edited my post to change my (well, my iPhone’s) mistake.


GRRRRR!!

My apologies!

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Mart,

I am sorry about the gender change.  My iPhone auto corrected on me.  


I edited my post to change my (well, my iPhone’s) mistake.


GRRRRR!!

My apologies!

Eric

No worries ;-)

If you are changing vehicles, many EV have 'vehicle to load'.  Hyundai Ioniq5, Chev SilveradoEV, Ford F150 Lightning, probably others.
The batteries are big (ex 75 kWh), but you need to be on site to connect them.

All,

I'm Gary, Cara's partner. She got tired of asking me questions about the solar setup, so I joined Permies to simplify.

Thanks for all the responses. Eric, I'm confused about what you're calling a "dedicated backup system". Either the Powerwall or the EcoFlow would be a backup system.

Tim, I agree on the term "solar power generator." I use it because it seems to be the common term for the portable backup system that can use solar energy to recharge the batteries.

Joshua, I have 3KW of solar on my roof, so I'm really trying to avoid the small panels EcoFlow provides (and I'm looking at the Ultra model). I can't imagine having to reposition multiple panels several times a day to maximize recharging. My panels are on the clear south side of my roof, at the perfect pitch to maximize output.

I'm pleased that lithium iron phosphate batteries have pretty well replaced the lithium ion batteries of the recent path. Safer, with many more cycles, it's a step in the right direction. But as several people have mentioned, battery technology is rapidly advancing, so whatever I choose will be outmoded in short order. I look at it this way. If I don't choose anything, batteries will not advance. I need to spend LOTS of money on something that will tell the Universe that it's time to move on. Sort of like if you want it to rain, wash the car and hang a load of laundry on the line....

The company that installed my panels came by last week to give me an estimate/opinion. He said he thought I could get by on just one Powerwall, which will, of course GREATLY reduce the cost. Unfortunately, he also told us that our local codes don't allow the installation of the batteries on the exterior walls of the occupied house. It's supposed to go in a garage, etc. I guess it's for a fire hazard, but if an attached garage catches fire, the whole house is going to burn, so it doesn't make sense to me. They're going to check with code enforcement and see if we can get a workaround. It's a small house from the '40s, so every wall is part of the living space.

SO far, I still feel something like a Powerwall would be the system most likely to give us the backup power we need with the least amount of effort once the system is installed. The EcoFlow Delta Ultra will do the same thing, but storing the inverter and batteries is problematic, they weigh a ton, and would require significant setup before a hurricane in order to have the batteries fully charged before the power goes out.

I appreciate the many thoughtful answers from folks that seem to know what they're talking about!

Gary

Hi Gary,

The EcoFlow is exactly the type of system that I imagine in this situation.  

The Power Wall might be different, but maybe you can tell me.  I was under the impression that the Power Wall was designed so that a house could use battery power during times of peak consumption/pricing.  I was also under the impression that the name “Tesla” by itself cost a bundle.  If I am wrong on either of these then by all means consider the Power Wall.

Also, LiFePo4 batteries are mature and dominate these types of applications.  Even better, if you ever get the desire to build a system from the ground up, there are plenty of commercially available components to both make a battery/battery pack and to monitor and regulate power consumption.

Sodium ion batteries *might* have a role to play in these applications, but as of now, I can’t find components designed to monitor and regulate sodium chemistry.  I could go into all sorts of minutiae if you are curious, but I will leave things here.

The other option that I was considering in your application was not so much a whole-house system but a system design to run just a few circuits.  Maybe fridge, charge USB devices, etc.

Maybe this is more clear than before?


Eric

Gary, everyone,

I need to correct myself.

Apparently not only is the Power Wall affordable, but the Power Wall 3 is the lowest price per Kw/hr.

If this is true, then by all means, the Power Wall is not only a viable option, but perhaps the best.


Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Hi Gary,

The EcoFlow is exactly the type of system that I imagine in this situation.  

The Power Wall might be different, but maybe you can tell me.  I was under the impression that the Power Wall was designed so that a house could use battery power during times of peak consumption/pricing.  I was also under the impression that the name “Tesla” by itself cost a bundle.  If I am wrong on either of these then by all means consider the Power Wall.

Also, LiFePo4 batteries are mature and dominate these types of applications.  Even better, if you ever get the desire to build a system from the ground up, there are plenty of commercially available components to both make a battery/battery pack and to monitor and regulate power consumption.

Sodium ion batteries *might* have a role to play in these applications, but as of now, I can’t find components designed to monitor and regulate sodium chemistry.  I could go into all sorts of minutiae if you are curious, but I will leave things here.

The other option that I was considering in your application was not so much a whole-house system but a system design to run just a few circuits.  Maybe fridge, charge USB devices, etc.

Maybe this is more clear than before?


Eric

Eric,

LiFePo4 batteries are state of the art now, but I don't think they will stay that way. Sodium ion or Solid State? Who knows, but I'd like to get a functioning system NOW. Sort of the perfect being the enemy of the good. But just like a '65 Mustang, something doesn't need to be state of the art to be functional (or, in the case of the Mustang, beautiful). Yes, my primary need is for a system to keep my freezers and fridges cold for an extended outage. But why not do double duty and have a system that ensures I can use all my solar power, rather than selling back to FPL for wholesale prices and buying electricity retail at night?

Where did you find the data on the cost per kilowatt hour? I didn't find it when I did a search, and I'd love to see a comparison of various options.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply.

Gary

I suspect the OP's already are aware of these credits for battery storage, but just in case.....   Many states (unfortunately, Florida possibly not being one) have state- and utility-sponsored incentive programs as well based on the KWH size of the battery storage system.

https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal-tax-credits/battery-storage-technology#:~:text=Battery%20Storage%20Technology%20Tax%20Credit.%20The%20following,property%20placed%20in%20service%20after%20December%2031

Gary,

I just got that information this morning from an article I was reading after I wrote my reply to the.

Yup, LiFePo4 is the way to go now.  Sodium ion has real potential, but the architecture isn’t here now.  And by architecture, I mean things like a battery meter that is calibrated for sodium.  Also, I have not seen a charger dedicated to sodium chemistry.  Sodium has a little bit of a Peukert effect, but not nearly like lead-acid.  So sodium could be the cost effective way of the future, but I will wait until I see those components available before I experiment with sodium batteries.

I will see if I can find that article for you.



Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Gary,

I just got that information this morning from an article I was reading after I wrote my reply to the.

Yup, LiFePo4 is the way to go now.  Sodium ion has real potential, but the architecture isn’t here now.  And by architecture, I mean things like a battery meter that is calibrated for sodium.  Also, I have not seen a charger dedicated to sodium chemistry.  Sodium has a little bit of a Peukert effect, but not nearly like lead-acid.  So sodium could be the cost effective way of the future, but I will wait until I see those components available before I experiment with sodium batteries.

I will see if I can find that article for you.



Eric

Thanks, Eric. I'm sure quite a few people would be interested in that article.

John,

I know the tax rebates are expiring. Florida doesn't have any, and even if they did, I wouldn't count on getting the money. When we had our solar panels installed back in '09, we were supposed to get a check from the state. They sent half...they allowed too many people to apply, and didn't fund the account. So I make my p[lans on spending full price, and if I get anything back, that's a bonus.

Gary

Just my opinion, but I would not give Tesla any money for any reason.

Ben Zumeta wrote:Just my opinion, but I would not give Tesla any money for any reason.

Why?

I will start by saying I do not want tell anyone what to do, but my reasons for boycotting Tesla are older than the last month. I am sure competitors also fall short in terms of ethics in some ways, but leadership at Tesla has demonstrated they are opposed to much of what I value and have caused great damage to the planet and institutions working to protect it. Beyond what they get of my tax dollars in federal contracts, I will never spend a cent on Tesla products.

The best reason to avoid Tesla right now is that it is headed by someone who has come off the rails, and not in a good way. No sense in funding such antics.

The second-best reason would be that apparently the Tesla vehicles are generally constructed with a quality level that would embarrass GM circa 1980. It probably doesn´t help that Tesla employees are not well-treated on the whole, and slaves (real or figurative) often get their revenge in the quality of their work.

That said, as far as I know, no Powerwall has burned anyone's house down.

I haven't heard about Musk treating his employees badly. I do know Tesla products are made in China and I really dislike that because, as you say, that can involve slave labor, I salute you if you're able to avoid everything made there. I believe any alternative would be made in China. Unfortunately, a USA company, Titan, went out of business. We'd have bought thei product instead.

I will not buy from Amazon or Whole Foods partly because of their terrible labor practices.

I grant Musk is acting a bit erratically these days, but for the revolting and almost unbelievable fraud, grift, and waste he helped expose in the federal government, I am grateful.

I respect the rights of every consumer to direct their hard earned money towards the businesses they support. For me personally, the actions and behavior of most large companies are the very reason (or one of many reasons)  why we reduce our consumption significantly. I do not like ourpower company,and if a solar backup can reduce our already low electric bill, it's all good.  

I'd rather give my money to a locally owned and operated solar installation company, even if I do end up buying a Tesla. I'm loo0king at some other manufacturers, but there is something to be said for buying a proven system from a company that will still be here in a decade. Case in point- the Titan "solar generator" from Zero Energy was my preferred product. They suddenly went out of business, not because of a shoddy, American made product, but because of the relentless price pressure of the newer and bigger companies.

In case you are interested, I got my EcoFlow Delta 3 system installed today.
You can see it here: https://permies.com/t/285422/EcoFlow-Delta-system

If you are looking more for a DIY setup you might look into a Hybrid Inverter and 48V floor standing batteries.  Ecoflow makes great products, but it is a little pricier than other options.

Cara Cee wrote:I haven't heard about Musk treating his employees badly. I do know Tesla products are made in China and I really dislike that because, as you say, that can involve slave labor, I salute you if you're able to avoid everything made there. I believe any alternative would be made in China. Unfortunately, a USA company, Titan, went out of business. We'd have bought thei product instead.

I will not buy from Amazon or Whole Foods partly because of their terrible labor practices.

I grant Musk is acting a bit erratically these days, but for the revolting and almost unbelievable fraud, grift, and waste he helped expose in the federal government, I am grateful.

Just do a quick search for "Tesla treats employees poorly" and you will find dozens of reports of harassment, discrimination, poor working conditions, safety violations, and racist behavior.

As for the "unbelievable fraud, grift, and waste he helped expose in the federal government," it all amounted to much ado about nothing. That's why DOGE's Wall of Receipts was constantly retracted, revised, and frankly debunked by independent researchers. It ended up being the only grift exposed was his own as he cancelled contracts with his competition and steered more government contracts to his own companies.

Again, a quick search of "DOGE found nothing" will show you how much hype and nonsense the entire ordeal was.

Tesla's and Musk's behavior was a major factor in my decision to avoid buying any of their products.

Joshua States wrote:In case you are interested, I got my EcoFlow Delta 3 system installed today.
You can see it here: https://permies.com/t/285422/EcoFlow-Delta-system

Joshua,

This was very enlightening. I was looking at the EcoFlow Pro Ultra. Bigger than the 3:

7.2kW output per unit, scalable to 21.6kW, supporting heavy loads like 4-ton air conditioners
Start with 6kWh and expand to 90kWh, adapting to household size or energy demand
20 ms auto-switchover, 12 customizable circuits with single-circuit control by using the EcoFlow Smart Home Panel 2
5.6kW-16.8kW solar input. One hour of solar for one day of power
Compatible with 3-12kW portable gas generators for extended power outages
PowerPulse EV Charger (9.6kW) delivers 35 miles per hour. With DELTA Pro Ultra and Smart Home Panel 2, turning solar into mileage

The stackable batteries really allows for flexibility, but I totally understand your situation with the solar panels. I have 3600W of solar on my roof, and the Ultra would allow me to hook it up, but I think I prefer a Tesla Powerwall3, which will run my whole house, and still recharge. It's just easier, no switching required. That makes a big difference if I'm not around and my partner is facing a hurricane.

Gary

Mikes Garage wrote:If you are looking more for a DIY setup you might look into a Hybrid Inverter and 48V floor standing batteries.  Ecoflow makes great products, but it is a little pricier than other options.

Yeah, I thought about that, Mike, and decided I wasn't cut out for it. Also, I want to avoid floor batteries, since I don't have anywhere to put them.

Thanks for the ideas.

Gary

Joshua States wrote:
Tesla's and Musk's behavior was a major factor in my decision to avoid buying any of their products.

And what he did is a reason for my wanting to support him. I think the corruption, waste and fraud he uncovered was appalling and yes, I found many examples.

So we'll just have to disagree,