There is no way you could run a dairy cow on logged land anytime this decade.
Will logging hurt the land? More wind (could be a good thing for a wind generator)? Increase of flooding in zone 1 due to lack of trees to soak up water?
Besides the above, what are the most important things to do post-logging, that will help the land recover and progress towards a more fertile perennial permaculture oasis?
Goal - surplus, sufficiency, sustainability (generating more energy than we consume), permaculture oasis for family and to teach to community (so many people have told me I'm loony and the property is too small to do anything with!). I want a non-profit to teach others, and help local families in need (there are many), a plan generating a return of surplus to land and community, ultimately to reduce time spent at full time job and spend more time on farmstead.
Very interesting land. There's lots of water flowing through in the season, and I haven't even really touched on how to harvest that yet as it's low in the property vs being on the highest points. If I could even do a portion on my own or with hired help and low/no heavy machinery that would be preferred, especially long term. Would a chainsaw and winch do the job? I'd probably need to hire someone to then transport the logs, and somehow get to onto the truck however. Could you expand on DIY logging? I'll be checking out some videos on this as well. I've been told it's very dangerous, and I agree, but done carefully and well planned with safety equipment I'm sure these risks could be scaled down (not ruled out though)
Sounds like are really interesting plot of land - so many possibilities for you. First up 7 acres sounds like an area that you could manage by hand, without necessarily resorting to heavy machinery. If you have the time and invest in some equipment you could get a LOT more value from your timber by doing some milling for yourself on site. When working by hand there is no need to clearcut, so you can be very selective about which trees you want to take down.
Your goal sounds great, and very broad - there are lots of ways that it could be met with your land, and as people have raised concerns about converting to pasture how about considering applying permaculture principals to the forest itself? Not every small plot of land needs to be food self-sufficient and a food forest or pasture system is not the only way to generate surplus from the land you have. Also remember that you are going to have on going needs for fuel wood - you have a great reserve in the woods that are standing, but to be sustainable in the long term you need to be growing as much as your use each year.
Consider selectively thinning the woodland - remove a proportion of the conifer and let some natural regeneration of hardwoods take place. Consider opening a proportion of the forest canopy to let light down to the floor in places. These can become glades for growing a variety of species for other needs. Selectively harvest a few of the top quality timber trees to extract and winch to the road side. You can get a reasonable cash price for these without the heavy machinery on your land. Look at other revenue sources from the forest - mushroom cultivation can be an excellent one.
Hmmm.. I've got more ideas, but I'm being sent to bed! I'll come back again in the morning.
John Polk wrote:One point to consider: Clear cutting. We all understand how devastating that can be to both the land (and wildlife).
Another option is "selective cutting", but that too has its down side.
If you do the selecting, no logger will be interested - he only wants the prime trees, not the trash.
If he does the selecting, he will take all of the good trees, leaving you with the trash.
As the forest begins to regrow, the gene pool that it will be using will be only the inferior trees. All of the good gene pool will be gone. Your regrowth will be dominated by poor parent stock, so your 'new forest' will be populated with poor quality trees. It is an ugly truth if we allow somebody else to make the selection. He is looking for maximum profits for himself. He is not interested in what you are left with.
If you just do selective harvesting, to 'clean up' the forest, you will improve the forest, but don't expect much return, other than some firewood out of the project. There is a fine line between "fix it" and "rape it".
This is where you will find old fashioned teams of horses ( and some donkeys and Oxen ) Doing the same thing.
This is where you will find a Logger who still uses Teams of Horses to 'skid Logs' out of the woods !
Isaiah Ari Mattathias wrote:I was looking at some topo maps and found this contour line.. are contour lines exact (can I go every 20 feet from this guide), or according to this guide there are only two in this forest? I'm thinking it would be a good idea to log on contour for swales in the future, especially since part of the plan towards the front (North side nearest home) is to push the tree line back (away from fencing/structures/backyard) and establish a food forest there. Any thoughts re logging on contour? How can I articulate to the logger (who is not familiar with contour) to be as accurately as possible? I've tried with the A frame, but with trees presently in place it's hard to get a level of any sort.
Isaiah Ari Mattathias wrote:I was looking at some topo maps and found this contour line.. are contour lines exact (can I go every 20 feet from this guide), or according to this guide there are only two in this forest?
Isaiah Ari Mattathias wrote:
Jay - On type of trees etc:
Section 1 (nearest zone 2) - 85% conifer as a whole - cedar, fir, grand fir. More cedar at the top of the hill.
Section 2 (outer area, nearing the creek) - becomes more dense, also 85% conifer, patches of mature Oak.
What is the species of trees (Latin names if you could) on the land and to be logged?
Grand fir/Abies grandis (these are said to be 50-60 years and are my favorite so the better ones will stay, as well as some very unique trees I can't part with), Douglas fir/Pseudotsuga menziesii, Pine (Pinus or Pinaceae?), Cedar (Cedrus?).
Niko Economides wrote:There is lots of good advice here and maybe I missed it but make sure you can trust you're logger. I've worked with loggers and I've been a logger and I can tell you they are just lie all segments of society. I only question the integrity of your logger because of the quote of 60k on 7 acres. Must be some very high quality wood. How much do you get? If you don't have much experience in this a professional forester can be a big help! You may find one with permi principles but even if not they can help with contracts. I would recommend considering learning the trade, tooling up and doing the job yourself.
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