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I want to build a tall wood cabin, but I need a "foundations for smarter dummies."

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Ideally, I want to build a ten foot by ten foot cabin, no electricity or plumbing, with a sleeping loft. I am averse to an overpriced "kit" and, while I have land, the ideal location is not easy to drive up to (I may have to move much of the supplies about a hundred yards including up a hill). This is in the Northeast of the U.S. and there is snowfall in the winter. There are large rocks embedded in the ground.

This issue I am most confused by is the issue of foundation. I see stilt houses, houses resting on runners and gravel, all sorts of interesting international examples of small cabins. Is there a single reference source to help me answer the question of "how do I plant my wooden cabin in the ground so it does not blow away when the big bad wolf tries to blow it down?" Are there clear affordable examples of how this problem is solved, perhaps from other parts of the world? I feel a little like I'm stuck in the Home Depot/Lowe's groupthink and trying to "hack" a smarter solution.

R Scott

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Code is a one size fits all solution, that’s why it is so expensive—built for worst case.

If you can RELIABLY hit large boulders or bedrock close to the surface, I would dig down till I hit bedrock and use a hammer drill to put rebar pins in the rock and pour concrete piers by hand. I would make square piers from wooden forms, easier to attach skirting than sonotubes and cheaper if you reuse the lumber.

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John F Dean

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There is an older book out there that provides a plan for a house similar to what you describe. The author is Helen Garvy. I Built Myself a House: A Step-by-Step Guide to Building a Simple Country Cabin With Post and Beam Construction.

Do be aware that building codes vary by state, county, and township.

Oh yes, welcome to Permies.

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Sam Alcoff

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John F Dean wrote:There is an older book out there that provides a plan for a house similar to what you describe. The author is Helen Garvy. I Built Myself a House: A Step-by-Step Guide to Building a Simple Country Cabin With Post and Beam Construction.

Do use aware that building codes vary by state, county, and township.

Oh yes, welcome to Permies.

Thanks for the welcome. This place reminds me of the original internet. Do you have the Garvy book? Can I trouble you for what she says about foundationing? As long as I stay 10 feet by ten feet and under, I am in the free and clear as far as the state is concerned. I just don't want to be asleep in something and have it collapse or fall over.

Ned Harr

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R Scott wrote:Code is a one size fits all solution, that’s why it is so expensive—built for worst case.

If you can RELIABLY hit large boulders or bedrock close to the surface, I would dig down till I hit bedrock and use a hammer drill to put rebar pins in the rock and pour concrete piers by hand. I would make square piers from wooden forms, easier to attach skirting than sonotubes and cheaper if you reuse the lumber.

I gave this comment a thumbs up but I also wanted to say "+1" the hard way.

My only nitpick is that it might be harder to dig holes for square piers, and if we're talking about doing it just so you can reuse the lumber, for just a handful of piers, my opinion is: Don't cheap out--reusing that lumber for your footer pours is not where you're going to really save money, and your foundation isn't where you want to concentrate your compromises.

Anne Miller

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Of course there are a lot of different types of foundations.

We built our tiny house on concrete block piers.

Some folks here on the forum use a rubble trench foundation.

It depends on code and how much you want to pay and what material are available.

Here are some threads that might be of interest to folks here:

https://permies.com/t/14555/Sustainable-Building-Concrete

https://permies.com/t/360163/Rubble-Trench-foundation

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T. Smith

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Northern Maine here. Another option is to put it on blocks with no foundation. Most of the remote cabins in this part of the world are on blocks. I have 2 at our place, a 16 x 20 foot cabin with a loft and a 10 x 20 foot cabin with no loft. If you use drywall, it will crack if a corner of the cabin heaves due to frost. If you sheath the inside with wood, nothing bad will happen and it will be stronger. The drier the ground you put it on, the less heaving. One of our buildings was on wetter ground and I had to re-level it twice per year (winter and spring). We moved it to a dry spot and I haven't had to re-level it since.

I've had the cabins since 2008. Also have two sheds that are on blocks as well.

For the blocks, dig out the soil and get into the subsoil. In our part of Maine, this means dig away just a few inches. If it's sandy or rocky ground, Maybe don't bother digging at all. Top soil holds a lot of water, and wet ground is what ends up heaving (expanding) when the water in the soil freezes.

To re-level, I use a railroad jack to jack up a side or corner of the building. Then I add or remove blocking to make it level. I have a mix of short sections of boards, concrete block and bricks that are a variety of thicknesses. You'll also want a big level, but I'm guessing if you're building a cabin you've already got one.

I learned about the railroad jack from a local carpenter who is known for moving, repairing and leveling old cabins. It works way better than a bottle jack. There are usually a few for sale on ebay, search for "railroad jack".

R Scott

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Ned Harr, I will accept your nitpick. I meant to reuse the form for the next pier, not for elsewhere in the house. It isn’t any real money savings, just less hauling up the hill.

I would definitely find a way to haul things all the way without you being the pack mule.

Ned Harr

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R Scott wrote:Ned Harr, I will accept your nitpick. I meant to reuse the form for the next pier, not for elsewhere in the house. It isn’t any real money savings, just less hauling up the hill.

Thank you! But I figured that’s what you meant and that’s what I was talking about. Even if you have to make or buy half a dozen forms instead of just one, the relative cost of that is pretty minor compared to other components of the build.

Or, to put it another way, if buying a new pour tube for each footer allows you to use the round holes you dug and not have to spend an extra hour on each one digging corners out so it’s square, well if you have six footers that’s 6 hours of labor you save…is that worth, say, $50? $100? (If I’m working for someone else my rate is higher but even working for myself I think my time is still worth something, especially if I’m not learning anything.) And then how much is each tube? Looks like each one is in the $10 range for 6” to 8” diameters.

Good point about hauling up the hill, that’s worth entering the equation too.

Jackson Bradley

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For this size cabin, if you are sure about the location, the concrete piers would work as suggested. If you are not sure about location and will have a tractor, you could build it on skids.

You can ask the internet what the frost depth is in your area and dig your piers in to that depth. If it were me, I would have the lower joist system at least 18" from the ground to the lowest part of the joist system.

You could use sonotubes and have them extend out of the ground to that elevation and set your floor system on top. No matter what you decide, I would make sure there is a transition from the piers to the floor system that can be accessed/unbolted/unfastened.

The reason I mention the transition and the 18" is because if there ever is an issue, you can get under the house, with a small bottle jack, and relevel the house.

If you decide to not leave the space under the floor system, you can use a hi-lift jack from the outside to accomplish the same thing. I have used both methods to relevel conventional houses.

Both methods are very easy to do. Knowing you can fix any potential issues that happen over time will give you some peace of mind. This way, you don't need to feel the need to come up with a "perfect" solution.

Perfect is the enemy of good enough. Meaning that the endless pursuit of flawlessness can often hold us up from taking action.

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John C Daley

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Can you create metal brackets and use Dyna bolts to fasten them to the large rocks?
Then bolt and cabin parts to those steel brackets.
Maybe have the brackets hot dipped galvanised.
Do you have any photos of the proposed site?

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John F Dean

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Hi Sam,

The author sunk the posts into the ground below the frost line. I used a similar approach when I built my cabin in northern Minnesota. The soil was very rocky there. I dug by hand and removed the rocks, even ones measuring 3 X 4 feet with the help of a come along. If I had to do it over again, for the largest rocks I would use the approach suggested by John C Daley.

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Sam Alcoff

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John F Dean wrote:

The author sunk the posts into the ground below the frost line.

Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but if my frostline is 4-5 feet, can I just stick wood (treated? Cedar?) posts into the ground 4-5 feet down? Everybody keep saying things about rot and recommending these concrete tubes that I'm trying to avoid.

Thanks everyone else in this thread. I may not directly respond, but I am reading your answers and adding them to my research list.

John F Dean

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I used Tammarac posts sunk 44 inches into the ground. As far as I know, the cabin is still there. The soil had sand content with good drainage.

I want to be 15 again …so I can ruin my life differently.

John F Dean

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I had a neighbor who build a barn on a foundation of timbers laid on the ground. This was in the late 70s that it was built. The barn is still standing. It measured about 48 x30 and had a small loft. I am going from memory here. I also had a friend with an old house build on timbers laid on the ground.

How bad is the wind at your location? Is the wind restricted by trees? Has anyone in your area had a storage shed that was resting on the ground blow away?

Do you have building codes you need to worry about?

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Jay Angler

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Sam Alcoff wrote:... There are large rocks embedded in the ground...

Windstorms and weather weirdness has increased in my region in the last 30 years. I fully support having the building fastened to something solid. The right tools can drill into many types of large rocks. You could then use small amounts of concrete to hold stainless threaded rod in place that can be used to firmly bolt your cabin down.

Ten by ten is small, but you will be much more comfortable if you can somehow harness the benefit of thermal mass inside insulation, even if that is just a small foundation of native rock. There's a tiny home build somewhere here on permies where that was done.

I'd look very hard at where the water is running and plan up front to make it go where you want it to go. I've used a native stone-filled gully beside a chicken coop to get it's roof water away from the driveway.
Thomas' done a better job here: https://permies.com/t/275116/Leaning-tower-Pizza

There are lots of low-tech ideas out there. It's a matter of choosing the right one for your skill-set and your location.

Yes, you say there are no codes, but there's still the 'code of nature', so I recommend your loft has an operable window large enough for egress if shit happens.

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Ned Harr

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Sam Alcoff wrote:

John F Dean wrote:
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but if my frostline is 4-5 feet, can I just stick wood (treated? Cedar?) posts into the ground 4-5 feet down? Everybody keep saying things about rot and recommending these concrete tubes that I'm trying to avoid.

Even treated wood or cedar, in contact with the ground, is going to be more temporary than you want and could lead to other problems.

If you want to avoid concrete, I wonder if you could use carefully stacked flagstones or similar (probably you'd have to buy these so they're flat on both sides) with a few piece of rebar rammed through them? Hauling those up a hill though... anyway, there might be other options like that.

I totally get wanting to avoid concrete. But remember, you're not using a whole lot of it, and yuck factor aside it's kinda perfect for this application.

R Scott

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If you don’t want to haul concrete (I don’t blame you one bit) you can look at helical piers. They are giant ground screws. Some are made to be done manually, usually used for decks but should work for a cabin if you DON’T hit rock.

There are ways to make wood last longer in the ground, but some areas are just prone to rot because of moisture, drainage, acidity, soil life, etc. Will it last long enough for you there? I dunno. Your call.

Until you know what you are dealing with for soil in your specific building site, it is all just guesses. Figure out the exact site, dig a test hole, reevaluate the options.

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