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green lynx spider, peucetia viridans and her spiderlings, the next generation!

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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She appears to be covering the egg case with a layer of silk...we can see a regular pattern in the fuzziness.  
She's done this much over the last hour and I expect the whole thing to be covered next time I check....wish I could get better detail.
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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She added a lot of fluffyness to the egg case...no babies this morning but this extra layer must be something for their protection or habitat for when they emerge?
20231009_071010_Burst03-2.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20231009_071010_Burst03-2.jpg]

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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She turned it upside down and reattatched...
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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Still just rolling the egg case around.. I see her moving and she stops when I go to take a picture...these are today...I think there's more web than before.
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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...
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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Yesterday afternoon it was windy and the branch she was perched on the tip of bent down...she relocated within a half hour to the tip of another branch...more than 12".

First photo she is at the bottom of the bent branch...the bend is visible in front of the lower part of the window on the right.
Second photo shows her having climbed to a high branch on the upper left.

We wonder if the babies will disperse by 'ballooning' out on silks that catch the wind and that's why she moves to a high spot?  Tereza...any clue?
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Nancy Reading
steward and tree herder
Posts: 8380
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
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It looks like the branch she was on got broken, probably she can feel that branch is less secure and wanted a better spot for her babies.

How Permies works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads
My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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This mornings photos...today's the 'due date'
I got so anxious I took a pic with the flash at dawn!
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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Nancy Reading wrote:It looks like the branch she was on got broken, probably she can feel that branch is less secure and wanted a better spot for her babies.



It bent while she was on it as earlier it was still the highest point with her on top...we think there's a bit of bug damage where it bent so maybe grasshoppers are seeking revenge...

I think your right that she has instincts to protect her young.
I never realized there were spiders with maternal instincts...it's been a real learning path to follow her.

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Jay Angler
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Judith Browning wrote:I think your right that she has instincts to protect her young.
I never realized there were spiders with maternal instincts...it's been a real learning path to follow her.

And for many of us who are following your pictures.

I'm amazed at the amount of work she's putting into this project. Compared to the 'lay eggs and leave them up to nature' approach of many insects, this is huge. It also shows how much we tend to put humans on a pedestal we don't deserve! Ms Spider is being just as good a mom and many human moms and is certainly just as dedicated as most of my Muscovy.

Visit Redhawk's soil series: https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil
How permies.com works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads

 
Judith Browning
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Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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Last check in today...it's windy!
And no sign of little ones.

I left her staring down a grasshopper
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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No news
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Jay Angler
steward
Posts: 12422
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
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When my ducks seem to be glued to over-due eggs on the nest, they're right more often than their wrong. So just because we humans can't see things happening, doesn't mean that Ms Spider can't tell that everything's proceeding as per schedule!

Visit Redhawk's soil series: https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil
How permies.com works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads

 
May Lotito
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Yes it was quite windy in yesterday and several trees were down in the neighborhood. I am glad the egg sac is secured. It will continue to be windy in the next few days, if the babies hatch by then they'd better hold on tight to their mama. She's an amazing mother.

Zone 6, 45 inches precipitation, hard clay soil

 
Judith Browning
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Well, I told her she's a star and we're all rooting for her to no avail
Just riding out the wind all day.
Short videos are coming out better than a still but I haven't been able to get back in my old youtube account in order to post them.....
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Tereza Okava
gardener
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I'm far from home without my computer but I'm still eagerly watching this thread, lol.
I don't think the babies will balloon away quite yet, because from what I recall the mother actually teaches them to hunt; not sure how much time they spend together but I don't think they'll be leaving so soon.
 
Judith Browning
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Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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First picture is yesterday...a tuft pulled out...

The other three are just now...I thought for sure I was seeing a spiderling at the far end but no...
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October 15
October 15
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October 16
October 16
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October 16
October 16
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October 16
October 16

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
2382
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...
20231017_094745-2.jpg
Mid morning
Mid morning
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Early afternoon
Early afternoon
20231017_135355-2.jpg
Early afternoon
Early afternoon

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Nancy Reading
steward and tree herder
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It's like she spreads it out a bit in the morning to air, then tucks it back away in the shade during the afternoon.....
I'm on tenterhooks here!

How Permies works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads
My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

 
Judith Browning
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Nancy Reading wrote:It's like she spreads it out a bit in the morning to air, then tucks it back away in the shade during the afternoon.....
I'm on tenterhooks here!

haha me too!
I'm trying not to bother her too much but I don't want to miss anything if we've come this far.....and she kind of set up shop in one of our busier 'zones'.

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
May Lotito
gardener
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Do you think the mama spider konws it's ready and helps the babies out by ripping the casing open? It seems too tough from the inside.

Zone 6, 45 inches precipitation, hard clay soil

 
Judith Browning
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May Lotito wrote:Do you think the mama spider konws it's ready and helps the babies out by ripping the casing open? It seems too tough from the inside.



I wonder?
When I zoomed in to one of my recent photos I even thought I saw a hole or at least an indentation....maybe entry into the world is a more gradual process than just 'everybody out' one day.

Sometimes I personify though and picture her as a new mama pulling her hair out...

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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.
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
2382
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These are all taken today...the ones with a line of white are just now.
Zooming in I'm seeing small bumps and what might be a slit in the egg case? babies?
I did find that spiderlings in general are the size of a pin head...1-2mm when first emerging.

She has rearranged the silk to a top knot kind of 'do' also
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
2382
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This mornings photos...

I know that others fill up their phone with pics of the grandkids
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[Thumbnail for 20231020_084339-2.jpg]

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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She moved the egg case again, just a few inches...what are those little white bumps?
Seems like she would abandon if there wasn't any life inside?

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 8887
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
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20231021_120231-2.jpg
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Joylynn Hardesty
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On the edge of my seat, looking for babies. Maybe they were waiting for this fresh grasshopper?

'What we do now echoes in eternity.' Marcus Aurelius
How Permies Works Dr. Redhawk's Epic Soil Series

 
Jay Angler
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I think those babies are hiding behind all that fluff looking out at Judith and saying, "no, we *don't* want our picture taken!!!" I had a kid like that!

Visit Redhawk's soil series: https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil
How permies.com works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads

 
Judith Browning
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Joylynn Hardesty wrote:On the edge of my seat, looking for babies. Maybe they were waiting for this fresh grasshopper?



That may be so...have not looked this morning to see if that one is gone.
The grasshoppers are moving slower since it's cooler and I think she's able to stun them from a distance although I haven't seen that.

I thought the spiderlings would emerge and that would be that...not this long period of uncertainty

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
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Jay Angler wrote:I think those babies are hiding behind all that fluff looking out at Judith and saying, "no, we *don't* want our picture taken!!!" I had a kid like that!



Haha...and I keep thinking this is the day they will be out romping around and I don't want to miss it...

We did decide that Steve could go ahead with the gutter hanging that he had been putting off until after the 'birth'.

Now we wonder if they go through an instar or two before facing the world?

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
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They're here!!!

Now we think they must go through one or two instar stages before emerging?
And the white bits are egg cases? Maybe cleaning house the little ones push them out because they've all been along a slit in the case...that mama made?

The little brown dots move...we can't see legs but definite movement.

And this is the first she has taken what looks like an aggressive posture towards me so probably won't take too many photos a day

Posting what I could crop and still have some detail so repetitive poses.....
If you click on the photo you can get the original resolution I posted and somewhat better detail.
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Jay Angler
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Judith Browning wrote: They're here!!!

(my emphasis added)

Congratulations Momma Spider - you did it! I wonder if she was feeding them through that crack when you weren't watching? Can spider's upchuck like some birds can t feed their young? So much we don't know.

What I *do* know is that a Momma Muscovy will take on a full-sized goose that sticks its bill too close to her babies, so I'd definitely advise caution. This is where I'd call a friend of mine with this huge camera/lens that I'd not want to have to carry far and ask him to take a few awesome pictures!

Visit Redhawk's soil series: https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil
How permies.com works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads

 
Saana Jalimauchi
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Oooh finally! How exciting! Congratulations to mama spider!

I’ve been following this thread silently almost the whole way (I did lose it for a while when the title was changed ). Suuuuuch a great thread, thank you Judith for posting all the photos!
 
Tereza Okava
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Yaaaaaay!!!
It appears they've already shifted at least once: this is from a site at University of Florida:

Each egg sac contains 25 to 600 bright orange eggs, with an average of 200 eggs. Eggs require 11 to 16 days to hatch, depending on air temperature. Each egg transforms to a postembryo (incorrectly called a deutovum in some of the literature). The postembryo of the green lynx, like that of other spiders, is without tarsal claws and mouth parts, and the eyes are functionless. No setae or hairs are present on the body.

The postembryo remains in the egg sac, where it molts after 10 to 16 days. The resulting first instar spiderling has functional eyes, a digestive tract, and spines, and is ready to leave the egg sac. Emergence from the egg sac occurs 10 to 13 days after the eggs have hatched. The female spider helps the young to emerge by tearing open the egg sac soon after the first postembryos have molted. Unlike the wolf spiders, in an emergency green lynx spiderlings can make their own exit holes from the egg sac. Under field conditions, male and female spiderlings pass through eight instars before reaching sexual maturity, but fewer may be required under laboratory conditions. Brady (1964) recorded that, "under laboratory conditions the total time from egg sac emergence to maturity, in the case of reared males, averaged 288.6 days; in the case of reared females, 301 days." Males had six to seven instars; females had seven to eight instars.
 
Tereza Okava
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Sorry, before I was on my phone and could either copy the text or the site: it came from here
https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/beneficial/green_lynx_spider.htm
which has all sorts of great info.
I think your pictures are the best I've seen so far, though, Judith!!
 
Judith Browning
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Steve counted 12 spiderlings just now...I just can't manage a good clear photo between the wind and this phone...got a video of one of them scurrying and still can't see legs.

Thanks for all the info Tereza!

And I'll pass on all the new mama congratulations from everyone at safe distance

Tomorrow I'll see if our grandson can take some pictures.

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
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Figured out how to do stills from my video...
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
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Three dozen and counting

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

 
Judith Browning
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.
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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

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