Carnivore Homesteading

John Hutter wrote:I thought this was called a Ranch.  Or maybe Ranching.   Such a great word.

I also find it funny when doctors go on about dietary and nutritional facts, apparently unaware that "Diet Coke and Oreos" is not the same thing as "Tempeh and Spirulina."  A critical distinction indeed

Oh John, YES, a ranch would be the ultimate in carnivore homesteading.

Alas, a Ranch is out of the reach of many of us!

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:

Karen Lee Mack wrote:

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:Yes, yes, yes!


Within 48 hours of starting carnivore, my pain levels were bearable again, though it took a while to go away completely.  I stuck to carnivore pretty tightly for a few weeks, and felt better than I had in many years.  But my daughter was struggling.  She wanted yogurt, and fruit, and other things that she shouldn't be eating.  For several years, she's been struggling with severe weight loss -- she'll be able to eat one day, but can't eat anything at all the next day, and sometimes can't eat for two or three days in a row.  She was down under a hundred pounds at one point (and isn't much over that now).  She's small, 5'2" and fine-boned, but that's still too low.  So I didn't want to take foods away from her that she was willing to eat.  And if they were in the house, I ate them, too.  I also struggled initially with fatigue and nausea -- I dealt with the nausea by eating a few bites of something like cooked cabbage, or sauerkraut.  But then on the first of April I had emergency gallbladder surgery (I'd been having gallbladder attacks off and on for years, just didn't know what they were).  Recovery from that set me back quite a bit, but I do feel much better without that sick gallbladder.  

Do you have to take ox bile now?

I was listening to a Dr. Chaffee Q&A this morning and I missed the Q but in his answer he was talking about eating whatever kind of meat you can and is available. Oh wait, I think the person was having an issue with really high iron levels so her doctor did not want her to eat red meat. Anyway, Dr. Chaffee is big on "beef and water" as that is what he does personally and talks a lot about ruminant meat being best. So I was encouraged to hear him say, very strongly, that she could eat other kinds of meat, seafood, etc. We still have a pig to process and no beef available except from the store. I tried to find where I could buy a quarter or something but the local ranchers are sold out (drought being part of that).

Goats are ruminants so I think your plan to add some larger ones is good. Now they are one thing I have never raised so I am clueless though they are under consideration for the first time ever for our homestead because of the change. lol. There are a lot of goats around here but - and this is only something I've been told - most are raised near the males and that makes them taste stronger? we need to cut back on animals rather than add them until we get the move accomplished. And then I am hoping to have pasture to always have a steer going.

One of my rabbit friends, not local, has runner ducks that she raves about. I am not sure what the difference is as I don't want to add ducks right now, but definitely a consideration for the future. I think she has even sold their eggs long distance. Very popular right now.

All that to say, this is a discussion that needs to be had, because some of us just aren't going to be in good functional health on a plant-based diet.  And the way the political climate is blowing, meat (especially red meat) is going to become less available and more expensive, so if we want to have it available, we will need to grow our own.  But we don't all have a farm to raise food on -- and none of us wants to raise our meat in feedlot conditions.  

YES YES YES
This is exactly where I am coming from!!! And I am thinking that good functional health is critical in bad times. And for those like your daughter already struggling, need to have the best health possible. And with the best possible will, I spent many years on plant based diets, one year totally raw food vegan, and it simply does not do well for me. Especially my mental health. I learned that a couple decades ago, that animal protein was essential for my brain that has depression issues from both genetic and childhood issues.

I took ox bile for about a month after the surgery.  I probably should still take it once in a while, but usually forget, LOL!  

Goat meat is actually quite good, though it's lean, more like venison than beef, in my opinion.  We've never noticed any strong flavor from animals that had been sharing a pen with a buck, but you do have to be careful while butchering, not to let the fur side of the hide touch the meat (and wash your hands between handling the fur side of the hide and handling the meat).  I've even butchered a mature buck in rut and honestly, while I planned on just using the meat for dog food, it tasted fine, too!  (He was pushing me around whenever I went in the pasture.  Temperament in highly heritable; don't keep animals with bad temperament.)

If I wasn't so sensitive to lamb/mutton, my first choice of red meat animal for our small property would be Katahdin or KatahdinXDorper sheep -- their lambs are fast growing, and the Katahdins, especially, are very parasite-resistant.  (Both are hair sheep that don't need to be sheared.)  I'm not at all sensitive to sheep milk, according to our test results, and some people do milk their Katahdins.  (Not sure about the Dorpers.)

Close to twenty years ago, I had a goat that was half Oberhasli (dairy breed) and half Boer (meat breed).  She was the best milker I've ever had, peaking at almost two gallons of milk per day.  And her milk was rich and sweet.  I had Kinder goats at the same time, and her milk was as rich as theirs, and gave the same high cheese yields.  Standard dairy goat milk and cow milk will normally yield about one pound of cheese per gallon of milk; sheep milk, milk from Kinder goats (and possibly from pygmy goats and Nigerian Dwarfs), and the milk from Opal, my big doe, yielded about two pounds of cheese per gallon of milk.  So double the standard.  This is why their babies grow so fast!  

I'm emailing now with a lady who has a purebred Boer doe kid for sale -- she milked the mother while the doe nursed this kid, and got almost a gallon of milk per day.  Expensive (very NICE quality Boer doe), but worth it.  If I get her, I'll breed her this year to my mini-Nubian buck.  

I admit to being a "know not much" about goats or sheep and listened too much to generalities. One of my rabbit friends brought me a gallon of Nigerian Dwarf milk after I had already bought the (very expensive) Jersey heifer. It was like drinking liquid ice cream. We could not believe how good it was! When I was sort of looking at sheep, I remember thinking the Dorper looked like a good choice. I will definitely be more open minded in future about goats and sheep. That's amazing about the cheese. I have only just started my cheese making journey having accomplished ricotta. I can not WAIT for the permie cheese book to get finished. Jerseys, of course, have rich milk for cows but we are calf sharing and I don't think you get as much doing that. We are getting about 2 gallons of milk with 1 pint to pint and half of cream in our morning milking.

The new goat I'm hoping to get is a purebred Boer about ten months old; she should be fine to be bred by my mini-Nubian buck this fall/winter, though he may need a ladder!

One thing about Boer goats is that they were bred to have much thicker skin than our dairy goats have; this helps protect them from thorns and biting insects, but it does have one disadvantage.  The skin on the teats is also thicker, which reduces the amount of milk each teat can hold, and that means that you get less milk out with each squeeze.  So it takes longer to milk them.  That's not terrible, but it is a good thing to know about.  They were also bred for a semi-arid climate, and are more vulnerable to parasites in humid areas like where I live now (Kentucky).  There is a lot to learn about all kinds of animals (and you are never done learning, there's always something new).  If you ever decide to get goats, it's really helpful to buy from someone local who can mentor you.  There are some good books on goat care, but nothing replaces an experienced person.

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:The new goat I'm hoping to get is a purebred Boer about ten months old; she should be fine to be bred by my mini-Nubian buck this fall/winter, though he may need a ladder!

One thing about Boer goats is that they were bred to have much thicker skin than our dairy goats have; this helps protect them from thorns and biting insects, but it does have one disadvantage.  The skin on the teats is also thicker, which reduces the amount of milk each teat can hold, and that means that you get less milk out with each squeeze.  So it takes longer to milk them.  That's not terrible, but it is a good thing to know about.  They were also bred for a semi-arid climate, and are more vulnerable to parasites in humid areas like where I live now (Kentucky).  There is a lot to learn about all kinds of animals (and you are never done learning, there's always something new).  If you ever decide to get goats, it's really helpful to buy from someone local who can mentor you.  There are some good books on goat care, but nothing replaces an experienced person.

Definitely a mentor is so much better! That is what I do for newbies buying rabbits as much as I can. Even though I have only been breeding for 3 years, I have a lot to pass on to someone new. And I don't mind saying I don't know.

Now, you may think less of me for this question lol but do the thicker teats do well with a milking machine? I did manage to figure out the hand milking, however, even with carnivore, I still have some pain in my thumb joints (maybe it will eventually go away) and we do not have an ideal set up. My husband was way more excited about trying a machine than building more infrastructure. He is a mechanic and a tinkerer. So we ended up using a machine both to milk and to separate the cream. It takes us about 30 minutes from the time the milk starts flowing to being separated and everything cleaned up. It's become an enjoyable morning ritual that we do together. Anyhow, I was wondering how that would play into the choice.

We will be moving to south Georgia. It will be humid and green - the opposite of west Texas - and I imagine there will be plenty of parasites. I grew up in north central Florida in a rural area so I am familar with the basic climate. The top thing on my list is pasture. We have none. Probably less parasites though the ones that can survive are tough.

This has nothing to do with that but we laughed about his cousin who lives there and talking about various pieces of land. He was warning us away from one area because they only get 20 gallons per minute in the wells rather than 40 or more. We laughed because have two small houses, 12 RV spots, the animals and his mechanic work all on a well that get 2 gallons per minute! It is a very managed process. We have two 300 gallon holding tanks (one stays closed most of the time) and a water leak is an All hands on Deck emergency to find and fix.

I don't know of anyone who is milking Boer goats with a machine, so I can't say for sure, but I think it would be fine.  Cows also have much thicker skin than standard dairy goats, and machines are commonly used for them.  In fact, someone who starts out milking cows would probably find a Boer doe's teats normal!  But if you do go with Boers, be very careful about their udders and teats.  There are several abnormalities that are very common in that breed, which don't hurt their ability to raise their own kids, but do make it difficult to milk them (double teats, fish-tail teats, and others).  The doe I'm considering has normal teats, as does her mother, but you do have to check on that.

One other thing is that your climate might be better suited (in Georgia) for Kiko goats rather than Boers, as Kikos are supposed to be more parasite resistant.  Kikos can also be milked, but their milk should more resemble standard dairy goat milk, since that's their ancestry.  They won't have as long of a lactation, though (dairy goats, like dairy cows, should milk for at least ten months in a lactation; meat animals tend to produce milk just long enough to wean their offspring).  

We moved to Kentucky from the high desert of Eastern Oregon, which is considered semi-arid, so I have some experience with dry climates (though not quite as dry, and not nearly as hot, as where you are).  That was one reason for choosing our current location -- I wanted to be somewhere that wasn't quite as dependent on a really deep well.  Though the worst well we've had was actually in New Hampshire, at less than a gallon per minute.  We didn't have quite as much running on that well as you do, but we did have to be very careful with our water usage.

I need to make a list of the tools and equipment needed in a carnivore kitchen -- it's going to be a little different from the Standard American Diet kitchen.  Can probably get rid of most of my baking pans, for one thing, though it feels really weird to do that!  The KitchenAid mixer can be justified because I have the meat grinder/sausage stuffer attachment for it, and because I can use the freezer bowl to make frozen yogurt.  If I didn't already have it, I couldn't justify getting one, but since it's already here....I do have two hand-crank meat grinders, a big one and a small one.  If you aren't doing a lot of grinding at one time, those are fine.  The grain mill needs to go, I think, though I suppose I could use it to grind stuff for the ducks and goats, maybe.  

And so on down the list.

What I'm doing ALL of my cooking with right now (as a sort of challenge) is my Ninja Foodi electric pressure cooker/air fryer.  I was getting very irritated with the amount of grease splatter from frying hamburger (our primary meat) in a frying pan; there is much less splatter sauteing it in the bottom of the deep pot of the cooker.  That machine also slow cooks, roasts, and (of course) air fries.  It's helpful to pressure cook some things for a bit, like chicken legs, before roasting or air frying them, too.  (And when we have goat milk again, it makes yogurt -- I had an InstantPot which never consistently sealed for pressure cooking, but it did make excellent yogurt.  And if you want boiled eggs that are easy to peel, cook them in the pressure cooker!)

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:I don't know of anyone who is milking Boer goats with a machine, so I can't say for sure, but I think it would be fine.  Cows also have much thicker skin than standard dairy goats, and machines are commonly used for them.  In fact, someone who starts out milking cows would probably find a Boer doe's teats normal!  But if you do go with Boers, be very careful about their udders and teats.  There are several abnormalities that are very common in that breed, which don't hurt their ability to raise their own kids, but do make it difficult to milk them (double teats, fish-tail teats, and others).  The doe I'm considering has normal teats, as does her mother, but you do have to check on that.

One other thing is that your climate might be better suited (in Georgia) for Kiko goats rather than Boers, as Kikos are supposed to be more parasite resistant.  Kikos can also be milked, but their milk should more resemble standard dairy goat milk, since that's their ancestry.  They won't have as long of a lactation, though (dairy goats, like dairy cows, should milk for at least ten months in a lactation; meat animals tend to produce milk just long enough to wean their offspring).  

We moved to Kentucky from the high desert of Eastern Oregon, which is considered semi-arid, so I have some experience with dry climates (though not quite as dry, and not nearly as hot, as where you are).  That was one reason for choosing our current location -- I wanted to be somewhere that wasn't quite as dependent on a really deep well.  Though the worst well we've had was actually in New Hampshire, at less than a gallon per minute.  We didn't have quite as much running on that well as you do, but we did have to be very careful with our water usage.

Gosh, Kathleen, you probably understand my circumstance better than just about anyone I have talked to! lol
Can I ask if you have been content with your choice?
Most of our family is in north Florida. But Georgia land is cheaper (about 1/3) and their regulations are much less. And since we want to build an atypical home plus he wants to develop a small pyrolysis machine, that is important. And we will be about 4 hours from family which is close enough for me at this point in my life.

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:I need to make a list of the tools and equipment needed in a carnivore kitchen -- it's going to be a little different from the Standard American Diet kitchen.  Can probably get rid of most of my baking pans, for one thing, though it feels really weird to do that!  The KitchenAid mixer can be justified because I have the meat grinder/sausage stuffer attachment for it, and because I can use the freezer bowl to make frozen yogurt.  If I didn't already have it, I couldn't justify getting one, but since it's already here....I do have two hand-crank meat grinders, a big one and a small one.  If you aren't doing a lot of grinding at one time, those are fine.  The grain mill needs to go, I think, though I suppose I could use it to grind stuff for the ducks and goats, maybe.  

And so on down the list.

What I'm doing ALL of my cooking with right now (as a sort of challenge) is my Ninja Foodi electric pressure cooker/air fryer.  I was getting very irritated with the amount of grease splatter from frying hamburger (our primary meat) in a frying pan; there is much less splatter sauteing it in the bottom of the deep pot of the cooker.  That machine also slow cooks, roasts, and (of course) air fries.  It's helpful to pressure cook some things for a bit, like chicken legs, before roasting or air frying them, too.  (And when we have goat milk again, it makes yogurt -- I had an InstantPot which never consistently sealed for pressure cooking, but it did make excellent yogurt.  And if you want boiled eggs that are easy to peel, cook them in the pressure cooker!)

Oh yes, I have been thinking about this!
We will be living in a utility trailer during the transition and so my kitchen area will be even smaller than it is now. We currently live in a 16x40 metal building which is starting to feel luxurious comparatively. We lived in an RV while building this house so I do have some experience. Anyhow, I am looking at what we I actually need the most.

I have not had an air fryer yet. Yours sounds quite versatile. I have a regular pressure cooker that I no longer use to cook beans but I do use it to cook the rabbit. I go ahead and cook and shred the meat then freeze it, that is what ended up working best for us. I haven't quite got the knack of cooking rabbit parts well.

Oddly, I am using my food processor more now than before. I use it for making butter mostly. It was the way that worked for me. And any kind of churn would take up almost the same amount of room. I know what you mean about the pans - it feels weird to get rid of them. I had already been on a big decluttering kick. Always been a weak spot with me but I had leveled up watching certain minimalist youtubes hahaha. I have a box sitting in my kitchen area right now because I have too many plates, etc. The right moment will hit me soon.

We have a large electric grinder. We process our own pigs & cows (so far 3 pigs and one steer). We are not very sophiscated on the cutting up. We basically do loin, roasts and ground. We may get more precise as we go along. We plan to make a cooling room in a container at some point so we can hang the meat. Right now we have redundant small chest freezers and we get to at least quartering the first day and the quarters go into the freezers and, of course, don't freeze overnight so we can continue the next day.

Want to hear something funny? I have always been better at raising animals than gardening but my husband is pretty good. This is a hard place to garden though. He came up with a whole system of drip irrigation and shade cloth covers (even tomatoes have to be shaded part of the time here) this spring. We spent a ridiculous number of hours. Then about the time we planted seedlings started inside, we had a big hail storm. We sprouted another batch. We planted them. We had another hail storm. We do usually have a couple of hail storms but they are not always so bad that the covering we made wouldn't hold up. We got down to a couple okra plants, some butterbeans and this Italian squash that is versatile. But we could barely get them to grow. We were both so relieved to simply give up on the garden when we went carnivore!!! We do plan to grow stuff in GA but it will be based around what we can feed the animals.

Karen Lee Mack wrote:

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:I don't know of anyone who is milking Boer goats with a machine, so I can't say for sure, but I think it would be fine.  Cows also have much thicker skin than standard dairy goats, and machines are commonly used for them.  In fact, someone who starts out milking cows would probably find a Boer doe's teats normal!  But if you do go with Boers, be very careful about their udders and teats.  There are several abnormalities that are very common in that breed, which don't hurt their ability to raise their own kids, but do make it difficult to milk them (double teats, fish-tail teats, and others).  The doe I'm considering has normal teats, as does her mother, but you do have to check on that.

One other thing is that your climate might be better suited (in Georgia) for Kiko goats rather than Boers, as Kikos are supposed to be more parasite resistant.  Kikos can also be milked, but their milk should more resemble standard dairy goat milk, since that's their ancestry.  They won't have as long of a lactation, though (dairy goats, like dairy cows, should milk for at least ten months in a lactation; meat animals tend to produce milk just long enough to wean their offspring).  

We moved to Kentucky from the high desert of Eastern Oregon, which is considered semi-arid, so I have some experience with dry climates (though not quite as dry, and not nearly as hot, as where you are).  That was one reason for choosing our current location -- I wanted to be somewhere that wasn't quite as dependent on a really deep well.  Though the worst well we've had was actually in New Hampshire, at less than a gallon per minute.  We didn't have quite as much running on that well as you do, but we did have to be very careful with our water usage.

Gosh, Kathleen, you probably understand my circumstance better than just about anyone I have talked to! lol
Can I ask if you have been content with your choice?
Most of our family is in north Florida. But Georgia land is cheaper (about 1/3) and their regulations are much less. And since we want to build an atypical home plus he wants to develop a small pyrolysis machine, that is important. And we will be about 4 hours from family which is close enough for me at this point in my life.

I have been very happy with our choice.  I picked Kentucky because, when we moved here, my oldest daughter and her children (my only grandchildren) were living about four hours away in Ohio.  She then proceeded to move to Texas for work, LOL!  If I'd known at the time I was looking at property that that was going to happen, I might have looked farther south, but honestly, the climate here suits me pretty well.  There are a lot of great people here, and we have a good little church just half a mile away (I've always wished we could live within walking distance of our church).  Our area is mostly wooded or farming -- a lot of cattle, a few hair sheep and meat goat herds, lots of soybeans and corn and hay, some tobacco.  It just suits me well.  

It's good that you are looking at regulations as well as land prices.  I did look at Florida before deciding on Kentucky (we lived in south Florida for a year when my ex was in the Air Force), but between land prices and regulations, I just couldn't see moving there.  

The one regret I do have is being so far from the ocean; I was born within a couple of miles of the Pacific on the Oregon Coast, and spent part of my growing-up years there (when we weren't in Alaska).  I love the sea and wish we could visit once in a while.  But other than that, this is really a good spot for us.

My major goal, when I was property-hunting, was to be able to purchase without a mortgage.  I had some savings, the down payment from my place in Oregon, and a small inheritance; I paid $46,000 cash for this old farmhouse on about 2 1/2 acres with a couple of old barns and some small outbuildings -- with a well, which is rare here, at the end of a dead-end road, with only one other house in sight (when I bought it; my brother and his wife also live here now).  The house needed a TON of work (it didn't even have a kitchen, just an empty room, and the bathtub had a big rusted-out hole in it; the plumbing and wiring have all had to be replaced; there was no insulation; and so on), but much of that has been done now.  One difficulty has been finding people who are willing to do the work -- and who actually do enough work to justify what they are charging for it.  Most of the actual repairs and upgrades have been done by my brother-in-law, my brother, and our nephew.  I don't know if that's just a regional issue, or what, but it has been a bit frustrating.  I have a friend in Oregon who makes his living doing handyman jobs (and has enough work to keep him busy all the time); he was always on-time, reliable, and did a good job.  I have no problem paying for someone's time and labor, it's just kind of weird to not be able to find someone like my friend here!  It would be a good income niche for someone with handyman skills, I think.

Karen Lee Mack wrote:

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:I need to make a list of the tools and equipment needed in a carnivore kitchen -- it's going to be a little different from the Standard American Diet kitchen.  Can probably get rid of most of my baking pans, for one thing, though it feels really weird to do that!  The KitchenAid mixer can be justified because I have the meat grinder/sausage stuffer attachment for it, and because I can use the freezer bowl to make frozen yogurt.  If I didn't already have it, I couldn't justify getting one, but since it's already here....I do have two hand-crank meat grinders, a big one and a small one.  If you aren't doing a lot of grinding at one time, those are fine.  The grain mill needs to go, I think, though I suppose I could use it to grind stuff for the ducks and goats, maybe.  

And so on down the list.

What I'm doing ALL of my cooking with right now (as a sort of challenge) is my Ninja Foodi electric pressure cooker/air fryer.  I was getting very irritated with the amount of grease splatter from frying hamburger (our primary meat) in a frying pan; there is much less splatter sauteing it in the bottom of the deep pot of the cooker.  That machine also slow cooks, roasts, and (of course) air fries.  It's helpful to pressure cook some things for a bit, like chicken legs, before roasting or air frying them, too.  (And when we have goat milk again, it makes yogurt -- I had an InstantPot which never consistently sealed for pressure cooking, but it did make excellent yogurt.  And if you want boiled eggs that are easy to peel, cook them in the pressure cooker!)

Oh yes, I have been thinking about this!
We will be living in a utility trailer during the transition and so my kitchen area will be even smaller than it is now. We currently live in a 16x40 metal building which is starting to feel luxurious comparatively. We lived in an RV while building this house so I do have some experience. Anyhow, I am looking at what we I actually need the most.

I have not had an air fryer yet. Yours sounds quite versatile. I have a regular pressure cooker that I no longer use to cook beans but I do use it to cook the rabbit. I go ahead and cook and shred the meat then freeze it, that is what ended up working best for us. I haven't quite got the knack of cooking rabbit parts well.

Oddly, I am using my food processor more now than before. I use it for making butter mostly. It was the way that worked for me. And any kind of churn would take up almost the same amount of room. I know what you mean about the pans - it feels weird to get rid of them. I had already been on a big decluttering kick. Always been a weak spot with me but I had leveled up watching certain minimalist youtubes hahaha. I have a box sitting in my kitchen area right now because I have too many plates, etc. The right moment will hit me soon.

We have a large electric grinder. We process our own pigs & cows (so far 3 pigs and one steer). We are not very sophiscated on the cutting up. We basically do loin, roasts and ground. We may get more precise as we go along. We plan to make a cooling room in a container at some point so we can hang the meat. Right now we have redundant small chest freezers and we get to at least quartering the first day and the quarters go into the freezers and, of course, don't freeze overnight so we can continue the next day.

Want to hear something funny? I have always been better at raising animals than gardening but my husband is pretty good. This is a hard place to garden though. He came up with a whole system of drip irrigation and shade cloth covers (even tomatoes have to be shaded part of the time here) this spring. We spent a ridiculous number of hours. Then about the time we planted seedlings started inside, we had a big hail storm. We sprouted another batch. We planted them. We had another hail storm. We do usually have a couple of hail storms but they are not always so bad that the covering we made wouldn't hold up. We got down to a couple okra plants, some butterbeans and this Italian squash that is versatile. But we could barely get them to grow. We were both so relieved to simply give up on the garden when we went carnivore!!! We do plan to grow stuff in GA but it will be based around what we can feed the animals.

I've decided I really like an air fryer, but I haven't decided which is the best kind.  I've got a toaster oven one -- it works great, but is a pain to clean (because when you are air frying, the fat spatters).  So when I finally decided to replace my InstantPot, I got one that has an air fryer lid.  It's much easier to clean, but I don't think it air fries quite as well as the toaster oven one.  I haven't tried one of the basket ones yet -- I cook solely with small appliances, and was running out of counter space.  Microwave, toaster oven, hot plate, electric pressure cooker, electric kettle....I *think* I could manage with just the cooker and the kettle, if I had to.  Still experimenting.  Actually, if we are not drinking tea or coffee anymore (jury is still out on those), we may not even need the kettle.

I do also have a regular pressure canner, but it is aluminum and won't work on my hot plate, which is an induction burner.  I haven't canned anything but meat for a long time -- salmon, moose, caribou and bear when we were in Alaska; goat, pork and chicken since we left Alaska.  I really like having canned meat on hand, especially when one of the freezers starts to thaw out because a breaker popped.  Sigh. And speaking of freezers, I like your idea of building a big walk-in one, but there are also advantages to having more than one smaller freezer on separate breakers!

We mostly eat hamburger, because my handicapped daughter chokes easily and it's easier for her to chew her food up if it's already ground.  I do like a good roast, though.  And my sis-in-law's son, who works in a fancy restaurant, cooked for us at Christmas and made sous vide steaks -- I *must* learn how to do that!  Those were the best steaks I've ever had, and melt-in-your-mouth tender!

 

I have a small stainless pressure cooker. I most commonly use it for making bone broth. Bone broth with a few herbs (like parsley which is high in micro-nutrients, and a couple of dandelion greens for other nutrients, and walking onion greens for flavor etc) can be used for so many things and is a good use for any parts of an animal carcass that are left over. The minerals seem to be very good for me - particularly calcium as I have to keep milk mostly out of my diet.

That said, my pressure cooker doesn't live in my kitchen - the hall closet is close enough as we're talking once a week or 2, not daily use.  Occasionally if I've been given a batch of deer bones, I will be putting bones through it for several days in a row if I don't have time to do the whole job at once, but then it goes back to the hall to live!

One of you mentioned the One Pot and it will do the job, but I didn't like the complicated electronics, compared the the pressure cooker my friend was willing to give me on 'indefinite loan', so the One Pot went to my son on 'indefinite loan'. I can only handle so much clutter and I have too much of it still!

Yes, I have too much clutter in my kitchen, too.  It's a constant struggle.  I know I have things I should find other homes for (and have done with quite a bit of it), but then there are things like my cast iron dutch oven.  I haven't used it in several years, but I can't make myself get rid of it!  And I have a lovely Japanese-style enameled cast iron teapot that I haven't used in quite a while; can't make myself get rid of that, either.  I guess I can just call that one decor.  We have two SS double-walled French presses -- I was using them to make either coffee or tea, and we aren't drinking either one right now.  And on it goes.  However, I did manage to empty most of one of my Hoosier cabinets, and it now houses most of my livestock supplies and equipment (anything not currently in use).  So I have made some progress.  I need to clear another spot and get all of the butchering/meat processing equipment together, and I need another spot for the dairy equipment, milk filters and so on.  It's all scattered right now.

It's good that you are looking at regulations as well as land prices.  I did look at Florida before deciding on Kentucky (we lived in south Florida for a year when my ex was in the Air Force), but between land prices and regulations, I just couldn't see moving there.  

The one regret I do have is being so far from the ocean; I was born within a couple of miles of the Pacific on the Oregon Coast, and spent part of my growing-up years there (when we weren't in Alaska).  I love the sea and wish we could visit once in a while.  But other than that, this is really a good spot for us.

That's another thing we have in common although I was mostly 2 hours from the ocean. Here we are 2 hours from a lake of any great size. My husband is particulary not used to being land locked. We may still be 4-5 hours from a coast but after living on this side of Texas, that doesn't sound like too much.

My major goal, when I was property-hunting, was to be able to purchase without a mortgage.  I had some savings, the down payment from my place in Oregon, and a small inheritance; I paid $46,000 cash for this old farmhouse on about 2 1/2 acres with a couple of old barns and some small outbuildings -- with a well, which is rare here, at the end of a dead-end road, with only one other house in sight (when I bought it; my brother and his wife also live here now).  The house needed a TON of work (it didn't even have a kitchen, just an empty room, and the bathtub had a big rusted-out hole in it; the plumbing and wiring have all had to be replaced; there was no insulation; and so on), but much of that has been done now.  One difficulty has been finding people who are willing to do the work -- and who actually do enough work to justify what they are charging for it.  Most of the actual repairs and upgrades have been done by my brother-in-law, my brother, and our nephew.  I don't know if that's just a regional issue, or what, but it has been a bit frustrating.  I have a friend in Oregon who makes his living doing handyman jobs (and has enough work to keep him busy all the time); he was always on-time, reliable, and did a good job.  I have no problem paying for someone's time and labor, it's just kind of weird to not be able to find someone like my friend here!  It would be a good income niche for someone with handyman skills, I think.

It may be regional but also a sign of the times in a lot of places sadly.
Maybe that will turn around with hard times.

We also want to purchase outright. That is one reason for the delay. But we also want to get gone and this place sold before the oil field collapses completely (our opinion that is coming). Your place sounds lovely.

Karen Lee Mack wrote:

It's good that you are looking at regulations as well as land prices.  I did look at Florida before deciding on Kentucky (we lived in south Florida for a year when my ex was in the Air Force), but between land prices and regulations, I just couldn't see moving there.  

The one regret I do have is being so far from the ocean; I was born within a couple of miles of the Pacific on the Oregon Coast, and spent part of my growing-up years there (when we weren't in Alaska).  I love the sea and wish we could visit once in a while.  But other than that, this is really a good spot for us.

That's another thing we have in common although I was mostly 2 hours from the ocean. Here we are 2 hours from a lake of any great size. My husband is particulary not used to being land locked. We may still be 4-5 hours from a coast but after living on this side of Texas, that doesn't sound like too much.

My major goal, when I was property-hunting, was to be able to purchase without a mortgage.  I had some savings, the down payment from my place in Oregon, and a small inheritance; I paid $46,000 cash for this old farmhouse on about 2 1/2 acres with a couple of old barns and some small outbuildings -- with a well, which is rare here, at the end of a dead-end road, with only one other house in sight (when I bought it; my brother and his wife also live here now).  The house needed a TON of work (it didn't even have a kitchen, just an empty room, and the bathtub had a big rusted-out hole in it; the plumbing and wiring have all had to be replaced; there was no insulation; and so on), but much of that has been done now.  One difficulty has been finding people who are willing to do the work -- and who actually do enough work to justify what they are charging for it.  Most of the actual repairs and upgrades have been done by my brother-in-law, my brother, and our nephew.  I don't know if that's just a regional issue, or what, but it has been a bit frustrating.  I have a friend in Oregon who makes his living doing handyman jobs (and has enough work to keep him busy all the time); he was always on-time, reliable, and did a good job.  I have no problem paying for someone's time and labor, it's just kind of weird to not be able to find someone like my friend here!  It would be a good income niche for someone with handyman skills, I think.

It may be regional but also a sign of the times in a lot of places sadly.
Maybe that will turn around with hard times.

We also want to purchase outright. That is one reason for the delay. But we also want to get gone and this place sold before the oil field collapses completely (our opinion that is coming). Your place sounds lovely.

I think we are ten hours drive from the Atlantic (my ex lives on the NC coast, and when he visited youngest daughter, he said that was the driving time for him.  Daughter isn't well enough to take long trips anymore, so even if we didn't have animals to take care of, we couldn't go.

It does seem like hard times are coming.  Being debt-free will be a big help when that happens.

I'm going to see if I can attach a picture or two.  The first time I saw this place, I knew this was it (and it was the last one on my list to look at).

Love and appreciate this discussion, and very grateful that it is being had!

We've been carnivore (with varying levels of strictness) for over two years now - and its been amazing.

Regarding the idea of carnivore homesteading, here some things I'm working on at both conceptual and practical levels:

First and foremost we need to maximize is the number of calories grown per unit area (per acre, per square foot, per roof, whatever space one has)  if we are to be eating primarily animal products coming from our own properties. This means optimizing the landscape/whateverscape to the fullest extent possible to maximize our use of those freely available resources that go into growing and producing calories - namely water, light, and soil minerals.

Second, we need to optimize the distribution of those calories throughout the year (this includes preserving seasonal oversupply/abundance for leaner times) such that high quality nutrition is available to whatever form of livestock we might be keeping or tending.

Third - select and stack livestock species that are appropriately suited to the given unique context (i.e. ruminants where pasture forages are plentiful, fish/water fowl/invertebrates where water is plentiful etc). Generally, at least in my own limited experience, that when faced with a repetitive task or "problem" that has to be backfilled with my own labor/time/energy, I'm almost always missing an additional living system - i.e. the solution almost always seems to be to "add more life".

I am currently engaged on a project with a homesteader here in Tennessee that is progressing his property towards being a "silvo-piggery" of sorts. He's growing and breeding Meishan pigs (one of the few pigs that can truly gain weight on pasture forages - more about these pigs in this video webpage) but that can also take advantage of other common pig favorites - mast crops, tubers, fruits and berries, and other low-growing herbaceous vegetation. By selecting silvopasture guild species specifically selected to fill in seasonal forage gaps and simultaneously opening up the canopy for enhance light penetration to the ground (and thus grow more grass forage), more calories are stacked physically and temporally into the same space for the Meishans throughout the greatest portion of the year possible.

Another piece that fits well into the whole "grow more calories in the same space" idea is aquaculture in general, and aquaculture specifically tailored to convert solar energy into usable calories for both obligate aquatic species (fish, invertebrates, amphibians etc) but also for species on land. The sheer amount of vegetative productivity, and consequently how much animal protein can be grown and maintained, is quite impressive on a per unit area basis, especially when compared to strictly terrestrial systems (i.e. ruminants on silvopasture). One of the potential element connections we are going to be exploring for the silvo-piggery mentioned above, especially given that Meishan pigs thrive on forage crops, is to see if the pigs will not just tolerate but prefer abundant aquatic vegetation that  can be harvested throughout the growing season in abundance, even from relatively small footprints. Things like water spinach (Ipomoea aquatica), azolla (Azolla spp), duckweed (Lemna spp) come to mind just for their sheer productive capacity. Even at the small scale (suburban lots) I think aquaculture has a significant role to play in dramatically boosting the calories/unit area part of the equation.

Another real big lever, for which there is still (and will be always) a lot of experimentation to be done, is stacking species in guilds. Specifically I'm thinking of the one cited by Mollison in the PDM specifically regarding utilization of different foods, wherein a pond if stocked with channel catfish alone yielded 1,400 kg/ha, but when a quarter of their number of tilapia were added to the same pond the total yield jumped up to 1,834 kg/ha - an increase of 31% from the same space! Combine this kind of very intentional species stacking with edge optimization ( i.e. chinampa-style edges, food producing trellises/trees overhanging the water, nocturnally-active solar-powered insect-attracting lamp rafts etc) and some  clever habitat engineering / gating to maximize baitfish / fry survival, and I imagine we really have no idea what the true productive potential of such systems could be. The silvo-piggery has three small ponds on it already, and I hope to be able to report back with at least one anecdote on the potential aquatic vegetation - terrestrial protein production link.

We're still new on the ground here in Tennessee, but we're hoping to get started with some Muscovy ducks ourselves, and possible some breeds like the Grimaud that are specifically geared towards meat production. From there, I'll be looking to boost their available food probably with some sort of insect or worm-based nutrient cycling that can also yield a harvestable supply of insect protein for the ducks to enjoy.

Love this topic and am looking forward to hearing more about what others are doing to make carnivore homesteading work for them!

Another sort of stacking is getting more than one product from a species.  For example, eggs and meat from poultry, or meat and milk from a ruminant.  Eggs and milk can be harvested daily throughout the year with good planning and management, and you can get far more pounds of food than the yield of meat if you butchered the animal.  That's if your body can tolerate eggs and dairy, of course, but if you can, they are very productive.  Then you can also raise offspring of that same female to butcher.

Another would be to encourage the presence of certain wildlife that can be harvested, although given the diseases and parasites wild animals can carry, I'm a little uneasy about that one.

Casey Pfeifer wrote:Love and appreciate this discussion, and very grateful that it is being had!

We've been carnivore (with varying levels of strictness) for over two years now - and its been amazing.

Regarding the idea of carnivore homesteading, here some things I'm working on at both conceptual and practical levels:

First and foremost we need to maximize is the number of calories grown per unit area (per acre, per square foot, per roof, whatever space one has)  if we are to be eating primarily animal products coming from our own properties. This means optimizing the landscape/whateverscape to the fullest extent possible to maximize our use of those freely available resources that go into growing and producing calories - namely water, light, and soil minerals.

Second, we need to optimize the distribution of those calories throughout the year (this includes preserving seasonal oversupply/abundance for leaner times) such that high quality nutrition is available to whatever form of livestock we might be keeping or tending.

Third - select and stack livestock species that are appropriately suited to the given unique context (i.e. ruminants where pasture forages are plentiful, fish/water fowl/invertebrates where water is plentiful etc). Generally, at least in my own limited experience, that when faced with a repetitive task or "problem" that has to be backfilled with my own labor/time/energy, I'm almost always missing an additional living system - i.e. the solution almost always seems to be to "add more life".

I am currently engaged on a project with a homesteader here in Tennessee that is progressing his property towards being a "silvo-piggery" of sorts. He's growing and breeding Meishan pigs (one of the few pigs that can truly gain weight on pasture forages - more about these pigs in this video webpage) but that can also take advantage of other common pig favorites - mast crops, tubers, fruits and berries, and other low-growing herbaceous vegetation. By selecting silvopasture guild species specifically selected to fill in seasonal forage gaps and simultaneously opening up the canopy for enhance light penetration to the ground (and thus grow more grass forage), more calories are stacked physically and temporally into the same space for the Meishans throughout the greatest portion of the year possible.

Another piece that fits well into the whole "grow more calories in the same space" idea is aquaculture in general, and aquaculture specifically tailored to convert solar energy into usable calories for both obligate aquatic species (fish, invertebrates, amphibians etc) but also for species on land. The sheer amount of vegetative productivity, and consequently how much animal protein can be grown and maintained, is quite impressive on a per unit area basis, especially when compared to strictly terrestrial systems (i.e. ruminants on silvopasture). One of the potential element connections we are going to be exploring for the silvo-piggery mentioned above, especially given that Meishan pigs thrive on forage crops, is to see if the pigs will not just tolerate but prefer abundant aquatic vegetation that  can be harvested throughout the growing season in abundance, even from relatively small footprints. Things like water spinach (Ipomoea aquatica), azolla (Azolla spp), duckweed (Lemna spp) come to mind just for their sheer productive capacity. Even at the small scale (suburban lots) I think aquaculture has a significant role to play in dramatically boosting the calories/unit area part of the equation.

Another real big lever, for which there is still (and will be always) a lot of experimentation to be done, is stacking species in guilds. Specifically I'm thinking of the one cited by Mollison in the PDM specifically regarding utilization of different foods, wherein a pond if stocked with channel catfish alone yielded 1,400 kg/ha, but when a quarter of their number of tilapia were added to the same pond the total yield jumped up to 1,834 kg/ha - an increase of 31% from the same space! Combine this kind of very intentional species stacking with edge optimization ( i.e. chinampa-style edges, food producing trellises/trees overhanging the water, nocturnally-active solar-powered insect-attracting lamp rafts etc) and some  clever habitat engineering / gating to maximize baitfish / fry survival, and I imagine we really have no idea what the true productive potential of such systems could be. The silvo-piggery has three small ponds on it already, and I hope to be able to report back with at least one anecdote on the potential aquatic vegetation - terrestrial protein production link.

We're still new on the ground here in Tennessee, but we're hoping to get started with some Muscovy ducks ourselves, and possible some breeds like the Grimaud that are specifically geared towards meat production. From there, I'll be looking to boost their available food probably with some sort of insect or worm-based nutrient cycling that can also yield a harvestable supply of insect protein for the ducks to enjoy.

Love this topic and am looking forward to hearing more about what others are doing to make carnivore homesteading work for them!

Please imagine me doing cartwheels...if I could still do cartwheels.
Although, if I stay on carnivore...

Another person who gets what I'm talking about!!! Woo Hoo!

I'm glad you talked about aquaculture. We have looked at that fairly extensively and basically decided it was a "after the move" project. My husband is also interested in not just fish but the potential algae or other water plant life that could be harvested for animal feed. In fact, I think the video that really got us going on homesteading/permiculture was this one by Takota Coen. It definitely set alight our minds with ideas.

Takota Coen Pig feeding/Milking routine

I'm literally going to have to look up some of the terms you are using like silvopasture.
And I'm definitely taking a look at those pigs.
Adding in Kathleen's response - my family/friends in the north central rural part of Florida where I grew up, they actually feed the wild pigs corn and would round up any they could and cut the males and some mark the females' ears so as to not "harvest" them while hunting. Maybe it depends on the area but I knew a lot of people who ate a lot of wild pig, just saying.

I truly love you saying that the solution is nearly always to Add More Life. That could be a Life Principle.

I just saw the new responses but I must go do evening chores. VERY interested in both the pigs and the ponds though you definitely have done a lot more research than I have.

Welcome to the conversation!

I'm glad you talked about aquaculture. We have looked at that fairly extensively and basically decided it was a "after the move" project. My husband is also interested in not just fish but the potential algae or other water plant life that could be harvested for animal feed. In fact, I think the video that really got us going on homesteading/permiculture was this one by Takota Coen. It definitely set alight our minds with ideas.

Takota Coen Pig feeding/Milking routine

Karen ~

YES! Thank you for sharing Takota's video - I can't believe I haven't come across it yet - definitely a great example of aquaculture vegetation being incorporated into terrestrial animal protein system - I love it!

I watched several of his other videos and saw the rotational use of the shallow wetlands and the cattails for forage - brilliant!

I'm going to keep looking for additional examples of harvesting and utilizing these incredibly fast-growing aquatic plants for boosting calories and nutrition for land animals - in particular I'm very excited about azolla's potential - for so many things, but definitely as a feedstock for various types of livestock. Lots of helpful information for those looking to quickly get a grasp of what azolla is and what it can do here:  https://theazollafoundation.org/

As for the silvopasture, that's basically the integration of trees, pasture and livestock all into the same space. This of course can manifest a million different ways, but the potential for creating a "grocery for grazers" is greatly increased by adding multiple layers of solar harvesting, and selecting species based on when they produce harvestable biomass. For the silvopiggery down here, we're looking at trialing the species linked in the spreadsheet below in various guilds and planting arrangements. A good number of the tree species are already present on site, they just need to be optimized for rotational silvopasture with some selective coppicing and pollarding to boost light levels and overall "patchiness" to create more productive edge.

Silvo-Piggery Guild Trial Species Lists: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16AmOMBuTwPGAP0RpwPqjJVmxF-NobM7UCFY1qvCyUKk/edit?usp=sharing
** This project is located just north of Chattanooga, TN near Mowbray Mountain - USDA Zone 7a with ~ 63" avg. annual rainfall for reference

I have a few blog posts and podcast episodes that are relevant to the discussion of producing more animal protein calories in a homestead setting as well:

- The Sovereign Homestead Podcast - Epi~59 - Sovereign Food Systems - Pantry Ponds (more of a high level "what could be possible" episode)  https://thesovereignhomestead.com/sovereign-food-systems-pantry-ponds-epi-59/
- The Sovereign Homestead Podcast - Epi~58 - Sovereign Food Systems - Perennial Protein From Silvopasture Meat Forests  https://thesovereignhomestead.com/sovereign-food-systems-perennial-protein-from-silvopasture-meat-forests-epi-58/
- High Value Livestock Fodder Trees For Temperate Climates: https://thesovereignhomestead.com/fodder-trees-for-temperate-climates/

Thank you, Casey, for your explanation of silvopasture - that makes a lot of sense. Goodness, I can't wait to get to Georgia. We are in a high desert area and any tree on our place besides the mature mesquite have been planted and microirrigated and even that didn't help my poor willows this second year of drought. We are getting all the rain now. lol.

I raise meat rabbits and my objective is to get them on full forage and the best I have done here is 50% mostly with the willow and mulberry which can be fed whole young branches and cut and bagged for winter. Well, I can bag it directly here, I may not be able to do that in GA but I will have more grass there. Willow and mulberry both have a ~25% protein, varies through the season, and my rabbits love it.

I do appreciate Takota's work. That video really struck a chord with me and it gave my husband a vision for what was possible. I will check out the azolla.

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:Another sort of stacking is getting more than one product from a species.  For example, eggs and meat from poultry, or meat and milk from a ruminant.  Eggs and milk can be harvested daily throughout the year with good planning and management, and you can get far more pounds of food than the yield of meat if you butchered the animal.  That's if your body can tolerate eggs and dairy, of course, but if you can, they are very productive.  Then you can also raise offspring of that same female to butcher.

Another would be to encourage the presence of certain wildlife that can be harvested, although given the diseases and parasites wild animals can carry, I'm a little uneasy about that one.

I can't remember if I mentioned this part of our plan - we are hoping to get a Jersey heifer and will likely do AI with sexed semen this next breeding with our Jersey cow. After that, I am considering breeding both (hopefully at alternate times of the year) to small beef cattle like lowline Angus or Dexter so that the offspring will then be even better for freezer or would make a nice family milk cow for a family who doesn't need a ton of milk. Although I don't want to give the wrong impression. We were personally quite delighted with the Jersey steer we got along with our heifer. There was more meat than we expected and it was delicious and the tallow I made was lovely. I was SO proud of my tallow and this was way before we went carnivore. It is a blessing to have tallow and lard on hand now for sure!

Karen Lee Mack wrote:

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:Another sort of stacking is getting more than one product from a species.  For example, eggs and meat from poultry, or meat and milk from a ruminant.  Eggs and milk can be harvested daily throughout the year with good planning and management, and you can get far more pounds of food than the yield of meat if you butchered the animal.  That's if your body can tolerate eggs and dairy, of course, but if you can, they are very productive.  Then you can also raise offspring of that same female to butcher.

Another would be to encourage the presence of certain wildlife that can be harvested, although given the diseases and parasites wild animals can carry, I'm a little uneasy about that one.

I can't remember if I mentioned this part of our plan - we are hoping to get a Jersey heifer and will likely do AI with sexed semen this next breeding with our Jersey cow. After that, I am considering breeding both (hopefully at alternate times of the year) to small beef cattle like lowline Angus or Dexter so that the offspring will then be even better for freezer or would make a nice family milk cow for a family who doesn't need a ton of milk. Although I don't want to give the wrong impression. We were personally quite delighted with the Jersey steer we got along with our heifer. There was more meat than we expected and it was delicious and the tallow I made was lovely. I was SO proud of my tallow and this was way before we went carnivore. It is a blessing to have tallow and lard on hand now for sure!

This is what I was planning to do with the Jersey heifer I raised this year; I eventually decided that we didn't have enough pasture for a cow and calf -- plus, of course, we found out just how sensitive my daughter and I both are to cow milk.  But if you have enough pasture and you don't have sensitivities, it's a great way to go.

I am still using dairy as part of my carnivore lifestyle.

Having a Jersey cow in milk is a resource I am unwilling to squander!

One day I may experiment with a no dairy month or something.
It may have me shed a few more pounds that need to go. Right now,
I think I am still doing a lot of healing at 5 months in.

My current diet is hamburger, eggs, raw dairy including butter, homemade ricotta,
some storebought cheese, kippers and incidental other seafood or steak.
And still, a little honey.

Karen Lee Mack wrote:I am still using dairy as part of my carnivore lifestyle.

Having a Jersey cow in milk is a resource I am unwilling to squander!

One day I may experiment with a no dairy month or something.
It may have me shed a few more pounds that need to go. Right now,
I think I am still doing a lot of healing at 5 months in.

My current diet is hamburger, eggs, raw dairy including butter, homemade ricotta,
some storebought cheese, kippers and incidental other seafood or steak.
And still, a little honey.

I keep trying to figure out ways to keep at least a small amount of dairy as part of our carnivore lifestyle.  Should have a goat in milk fairly soon, judging by size of belly!  This is a Nubian/Kiko/Boer doe (I tried to get three different purebred Boer does, but they all sold before I could get to them, so I ended up buying six of these crosses -- and they may work out for the best in the long run, though right now only one appears to be pregnant -- they were all supposed to be bred.  I still have my Nigerian Dwarf does, and they should kid in March, but then I will probably sell all but one of them).  I'm hoping she'll give a good amount of good quality milk, but not sure if she'll be able to manage a 10-month lactation.  

My daughter is doing increasingly well on carnivore; she's now eating meat readily (even asking for it), and functioning much better than before.  Her weight has stabilized at a good level for her, and she looks better, not so much like I need to worry every night if she'll still be alive in the morning.  For her health alone, we need to stick to this.  I still periodically succumb to the lure of carbs, and ALWAYS regret it within hours, if not minutes (pain comes back).  The cheats are becoming fewer and farther between, but I will say that kicking carb addiction is one of the hardest things I've ever done.  I've heard it compared to beating an opiates addiction, and I suspect that's correct.

We do still have small amounts of green vegetables once in a while, mostly just for a change of pace.  But it's only once or twice a month.  I'm planning a vegetable garden, but much of what I grow will be for winter feed for the animals, and for my brother and S-I-L, and to share with some friends who can't grow a garden.  It's rather amazing to me that I feel well enough to actually be planning a garden this year!  (Though my brother is doing the rototilling, thankfully.)

I have also discovered, I'm pretty certain, why -- even on carnivore -- I have so much trouble losing weight.  I'm almost certain that I have lipedema, which I'd never heard of (or at least don't remember hearing of) before a week or so ago.  I was watching one of the carnivore doctors interviewing someone, with half an eye and ear on the video while I did something else, and caught a mention of something that made me sit up and pay attention.  The lady being interviewed said that one diagnostic symptom was severe pain when you get your blood pressure taken.  I started having that a few years ago, and had been thinking that it was just because my arms are so big, although I hadn't really gained much weight since the previous doctor visit, when I didn't have that pain.  Been doing research, and I have all the symptoms.  I'll talk to my doctor at my next planned visit (not until September), but for now am pretty certain that not only I, but also my mother and probably one of my sisters, and possibly my oldest daughter, also have lipedema.  If you have trouble losing weight, it's worth looking that up.

I'm still using the Ninja pressure cooker/air fryer for most of my cooking!  I want to replace the non-stick inner pot; for one thing, it's no longer non-stick.  But other than that, it's working really well.  Compared with a pressure cooker that you use on the stove, this has the advantage of being able to set temperatures and a timer, and go off and do something else while your food cooks.  And if it overheats, it shuts itself off.  (As in, if your food boils dry.)  We could manage with a stove-top pressure cooker, but this is really handy (and, with the air fryer lid, functions as a small oven, as well as a pot).

And, I'm still contemplating how best to raise sufficient animal protein on our small property.  We have a reliable (and inexpensive) source of good hay, which means the goats continue to make good sense for us.  But we probably can't raise all of our meat needs from the goats, so I will probably see if I can find a better location for our rabbit cages (and maybe build a few more, since I have wire on hand), and get a couple of breeding pairs of meat rabbits.  I'd like to get some geese, too, but between the snapping turtle in the pond and the three little dogs on the property, I'm not sure they'd survive long.  (Two of the dogs belong to my sister-in-law, the other is my own Rat Terrier puppy.)  The livestock guardian dog only protects from outside threats, not from her little buddies, unfortunately.  (And I need to add her food needs to my calculations.....)

I forgot to mention what we are eating.  Right now, it's mostly cheap hamburger (100% beef, though, nothing added to it).  I can get 10 lb. chubs at Walmart for $3-3.50/lb, depending on how much fat is in them, and whether the price has gone up or down. Boneless pork loin roasts have been holding steady at just under $2/lb, but last time I was in the store, they had gone up a little.  And 10 lb. bags of chicken legs fluctuate between under a dollar a pound and a little over a dollar a pound.  So I have been getting two or three of the pork roasts each month, and a bag or two of chicken legs.  We also keep some canned meat on hand (chicken, corned beef, kippered herring, tuna, and some salmon that one of my older daughters sent for Christmas).  As a treat, about once a month, we have air-fried shrimp.  That is still less expensive than most cuts of beef, so I don't feel too bad about the splurge.  For the two of us, I'm spending between $400-$500/month on food (that's not including dog food or paper goods).  It's costing right around another $200/month to feed all of the animals, and we aren't getting anything back from them right now, but when we start getting duck eggs and goat milk, that will hopefully reduce our grocery bill a bit.

I've been weaning us off of using any condiments other than salt and an occasional dash of garlic powder; the air-fried shrimp are dusted with garlic powder and parmesan cheese.  We are still drinking tea and (decaf) coffee, because winter (and while our house stays warmer than it used to, now that most of it has been insulated, it's still hard to get it really warm in the winter).  In summer, we drink unsweetened 'lemonade' and iced tea, but mostly water.

I do add a little Lite-Salt to our drinks to keep our electrolytes in balance.  If I forget to do this for more than a couple of days, I start getting charlie-horses in my feet and calves.  Mostly in my left foot and calf; the calf is partially numb because of a pinched nerve in my back, and if I'm not really careful I have frequent charlie-horses there.  But the electrolytes do help.  

Once in a while, we'll have some green beans or sauerkraut; every two or three months I'll buy us each an apple.  That's about the sum of what we are eating.

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:I forgot to mention what we are eating.  Right now, it's mostly cheap hamburger (100% beef, though, nothing added to it).  I can get 10 lb. chubs at Walmart for $3-3.50/lb, depending on how much fat is in them, and whether the price has gone up or down. Boneless pork loin roasts have been holding steady at just under $2/lb, but last time I was in the store, they had gone up a little.  And 10 lb. bags of chicken legs fluctuate between under a dollar a pound and a little over a dollar a pound.  So I have been getting two or three of the pork roasts each month, and a bag or two of chicken legs.  We also keep some canned meat on hand (chicken, corned beef, kippered herring, tuna, and some salmon that one of my older daughters sent for Christmas).  As a treat, about once a month, we have air-fried shrimp.  That is still less expensive than most cuts of beef, so I don't feel too bad about the splurge.  For the two of us, I'm spending between $400-$500/month on food (that's not including dog food or paper goods).  It's costing right around another $200/month to feed all of the animals, and we aren't getting anything back from them right now, but when we start getting duck eggs and goat milk, that will hopefully reduce our grocery bill a bit.

I've been weaning us off of using any condiments other than salt and an occasional dash of garlic powder; the air-fried shrimp are dusted with garlic powder and parmesan cheese.  We are still drinking tea and (decaf) coffee, because winter (and while our house stays warmer than it used to, now that most of it has been insulated, it's still hard to get it really warm in the winter).  In summer, we drink unsweetened 'lemonade' and iced tea, but mostly water.

I do add a little Lite-Salt to our drinks to keep our electrolytes in balance.  If I forget to do this for more than a couple of days, I start getting charlie-horses in my feet and calves.  Mostly in my left foot and calf; the calf is partially numb because of a pinched nerve in my back, and if I'm not really careful I have frequent charlie-horses there.  But the electrolytes do help.  

Once in a while, we'll have some green beans or sauerkraut; every two or three months I'll buy us each an apple.  That's about the sum of what we are eating.

My goodness how time flies!
I thought I had checked for replies like yesterday but obviously not!!

I am SO glad you have a source for inexpensive hay. Some weeks it feels like half of what I do is managing and buying expensive hay.
We are still months out from moving to Georgia but being able to get less expensive hay will help us so much.
However, having the cow in milk and a pig ready to process (has been ready) definitely cuts our grocery bill.
Plus the chicken eggs. I am glad I put a timer and light up this year. I know there are downsides to that but we needed the eggs.

While I am not losing weight, and to be honest, haven't gotten back on the scale, my body is definitely changing over time.
More muscle in my arms for example. And everything just feels like it is all working together better. Still have some joint pain
in thumbs, elbows and knees. It is way down to a manageable level. A couple regular aspirin will take it out if needed for me
to sleep or work. That is once a day but not every day. That could be the dairy or it could be the honey that I haven't been
able to go without so far.

So so happy to hear your daughter is doing well. Keep me posted on the lipodema! I don't have that kind of pain but you never know.
I will check it out.

Right now, I'm paying $4.50 for the cheapest burger at HEB. I do need to check Walmart. I just dislike shopping there
but I should get over myself. I was treating us to ribeyes once a month but dang, $12/lb up is hard to take. I did get a number on
sale at one of the holidays. Hoping Valentine's day will see a sale on those!
Food prices are weird though. I can get chicken quarters for 50 to 60 cents a lb. That is what I get the dogs when we run
through the processing offal.

We REALLY need to process that pig!

I am using more spices than you are but not a whole lot. My husband loves hot and I have found that cayenne pepper brings the heat
without side effects that I have noticed.

We do love our meat rabbits. Now it is a very lean meat. I have not been able to find a good way to cook it in pieces. I'm a pretty
good cook so I don't know what my deficit is there. What we currently do is husband takes out the loins (we make nuggets) and
belly flaps (he grinds those) and then I pressure cook the parts and shred the meat to freeze. Then I cook the shredded meat in butter,
a lot of butter, until some of it is brown and crispy. We love it that way! We miss having it as "rabbit salad." I haven't made
a carnivore mayo that we really likes. Considering using avocado oil to make mayo. Some people think the oils that are pressed from
the flesh like olive, avocado or coconut is not too bad. I'm thinking avocado because it is hard to be sure the olive is all olive
oil and if it is not, then there is seed oil added. Anyhow, I'm thinking out loud now.

Have no idea what we are going to do about breeding our cow back and the drying up period. Eventually, we want to
have two cow that can be bred alternately.  For some reason I've never wanted goats. I don't know why, I love seeing other
peoples' goats! At this point, I think maybe we will take the cow back to her home ranch when we get a couple months out
from actually moving.

I actually really like both cows and goats (and like cows better in some ways), but we've mostly lived on small enough pieces of land that it would have been hard to feed a cow -- it's easier to keep a few goats on a couple of acres, and only have to buy hay in the winter, if at all.  The deciding factor that made me sell the Jersey heifer I raised last year was finding out how sensitive both of us are to cow dairy (I had strongly suspected for a long time, given how I felt after eating some cow dairy products; goat dairy doesn't bother me like that).  I would have loved to keep Dulcie -- she was a sweetheart, and would come put her head in my lap like a big puppy for as long as I was willing to pet her.  But if you can have cow dairy without any problems, that's definitely the way to go.  If we had more land, though, I would definitely raise cattle for meat.  

I also love using peppers (sweet or mildly hot) in the cooking, but even a tiny amount of hot pepper makes Juniper sick for several days, so that's completely out.  She's miserable when she's not feeling well, and makes everyone around her miserable, too, LOL!

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:I actually really like both cows and goats (and like cows better in some ways), but we've mostly lived on small enough pieces of land that it would have been hard to feed a cow -- it's easier to keep a few goats on a couple of acres, and only have to buy hay in the winter, if at all.  The deciding factor that made me sell the Jersey heifer I raised last year was finding out how sensitive both of us are to cow dairy (I had strongly suspected for a long time, given how I felt after eating some cow dairy products; goat dairy doesn't bother me like that).  I would have loved to keep Dulcie -- she was a sweetheart, and would come put her head in my lap like a big puppy for as long as I was willing to pet her.  But if you can have cow dairy without any problems, that's definitely the way to go.  If we had more land, though, I would definitely raise cattle for meat.  

I also love using peppers (sweet or mildly hot) in the cooking, but even a tiny amount of hot pepper makes Juniper sick for several days, so that's completely out.  She's miserable when she's not feeling well, and makes everyone around her miserable, too, LOL!

I may eventually consider goats. After the move and settling in.
Definitely cannot recommend a cow without pasture. That is what I am doing and it is expensive!!
If husband didn't work in the oilfield for now, it would be a no go.
And it's not easy at that. I'm probably being redundant but it is a constant tight wire hoping I am
giving a good balance of hay to grain. Since I cannot get actual dairy cow food here, I basically am
giving her a mix of pellets and hays hoping it will even out and watching her closely.

Anyway, back to goats and cows - probably for a carnivore homestead, one should tilt towards
goats since (I think) it is more like human milk and the likelihood of less sensitivity.
My cow is A1/A2. Hopefully the next breeding will be to an A2/A2 bull, definite if we go AI
route. It would be lovely to end up with a A2/A2 heifer calf. We almost got the chance with
an AI tech coming through but needed two prescription meds and we couldn't get her
to the vet in time, still working on a trailer. The meds were to sync her cycles. I've been
keeping track of the Mooing as we call it and it is nearly always spot on 4 weeks. If I had
a better situation, I would wean the calf now and go to twice a day milking but we are
on two acres with neighbors and I just don't want to put everyone through the weaning
if I can help it. Really going by the seat of our pants with the cow. We are still getting
at least six quarts in the AM with the calf sharing.

Yeah, needing to own a bull or use AI (or rent a bull from our neighbor, which would be all black Angus around here) is another reason I've stuck with goats.  That, and they don't drink nearly as much water.  Bucks can be nasty when they are in rut, but that depends to a large extent on breed.  The seasonal breeders (Alpine breeds) are the worst; breeds like Nubians, Nigerian Dwarfs, and their crosses aren't nearly as difficult to be around.  They are still nasty, though, LOL!  One way to manage that is to buy a buck kid every summer, so it will be a few months old when you are ready to breed (I don't like having kids born in the middle of the winter, so prefer late fall/early winter breeding).  Use your buck for two or three months, and sell him.  A young buck won't be nearly as objectionable as a mature one.  You just have to keep quality in mind when you are buying your buck kids; don't settle for a buck who isn't going to improve any doe kids you decide to keep.

If I had enough land to keep several head of cattle, I'd get Dexters.  A bull is a bull is a bull, but a Dexter bull would be much, much safer to handle than a Jersey bull.  And AI is a pain, for the reasons you've mentioned.  Though once you've moved, you may find that services are more readily available than where you are now.

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:Yeah, needing to own a bull or use AI (or rent a bull from our neighbor, which would be all black Angus around here) is another reason I've stuck with goats.  That, and they don't drink nearly as much water.  Bucks can be nasty when they are in rut, but that depends to a large extent on breed.  The seasonal breeders (Alpine breeds) are the worst; breeds like Nubians, Nigerian Dwarfs, and their crosses aren't nearly as difficult to be around.  They are still nasty, though, LOL!  One way to manage that is to buy a buck kid every summer, so it will be a few months old when you are ready to breed (I don't like having kids born in the middle of the winter, so prefer late fall/early winter breeding).  Use your buck for two or three months, and sell him.  A young buck won't be nearly as objectionable as a mature one.  You just have to keep quality in mind when you are buying your buck kids; don't settle for a buck who isn't going to improve any doe kids you decide to keep.

If I had enough land to keep several head of cattle, I'd get Dexters.  A bull is a bull is a bull, but a Dexter bull would be much, much safer to handle than a Jersey bull.  And AI is a pain, for the reasons you've mentioned.  Though once you've moved, you may find that services are more readily available than where you are now.

Both services, and cattle, should be more readily available. We would like another full Jersey for ourselves but then I plan to breed them to Dexters, lowline (not sure of the whole name) or possibly even Angus if small enough. She stands 44" at her hip. In looking at AI, I discovered that midsize Jerseys like mine are basically a by product of breeding for miniature size. We almost bought a 3/4 Jersey, 1/4 Dexter but she wasn't much less expensive and, oh my, that Jersey face got us. But I think the offspring would then be good for meat or make a fine family milk cow if quantity was not an issue.

That is a great idea re the male goat. That is part of my concern. If I were going to do that, I'd hope to pick a breed that would suit me but also be popular locally.

Karen Lee Mack wrote:

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:Yeah, needing to own a bull or use AI (or rent a bull from our neighbor, which would be all black Angus around here) is another reason I've stuck with goats.  That, and they don't drink nearly as much water.  Bucks can be nasty when they are in rut, but that depends to a large extent on breed.  The seasonal breeders (Alpine breeds) are the worst; breeds like Nubians, Nigerian Dwarfs, and their crosses aren't nearly as difficult to be around.  They are still nasty, though, LOL!  One way to manage that is to buy a buck kid every summer, so it will be a few months old when you are ready to breed (I don't like having kids born in the middle of the winter, so prefer late fall/early winter breeding).  Use your buck for two or three months, and sell him.  A young buck won't be nearly as objectionable as a mature one.  You just have to keep quality in mind when you are buying your buck kids; don't settle for a buck who isn't going to improve any doe kids you decide to keep.

If I had enough land to keep several head of cattle, I'd get Dexters.  A bull is a bull is a bull, but a Dexter bull would be much, much safer to handle than a Jersey bull.  And AI is a pain, for the reasons you've mentioned.  Though once you've moved, you may find that services are more readily available than where you are now.

Both services, and cattle, should be more readily available. We would like another full Jersey for ourselves but then I plan to breed them to Dexters, lowline (not sure of the whole name) or possibly even Angus if small enough. She stands 44" at her hip. In looking at AI, I discovered that midsize Jerseys like mine are basically a by product of breeding for miniature size. We almost bought a 3/4 Jersey, 1/4 Dexter but she wasn't much less expensive and, oh my, that Jersey face got us. But I think the offspring would then be good for meat or make a fine family milk cow if quantity was not an issue.

That is a great idea re the male goat. That is part of my concern. If I were going to do that, I'd hope to pick a breed that would suit me but also be popular locally.

Looking for a locally popular breed is definitely a wise thing to do.  Twice I've gotten rare breeds (maybe less rare now), once Oberhaslis (which I love) and then Kinder goats.  Kinders seem to be increasing in popularity, but you still aren't all that likely to have a Kinder breeder just down the road.  On the other hand, Nigerian Dwarfs and Nubians are pretty widely available.  I don't care much for Alpines, Toggenburgs, or Saanens (not only are the bucks stinkier in rut, but the milk can have a bit of a goaty flavor, and sometimes the does -- esp. Alpine does -- can be really mean to other does), but Alpines are fairly common, too.  Oberhaslis, though their bucks can be as bad as the other Alpine breeds, have better flavored milk and a nice temperament, plus I just think they are gorgeous.  But you aren't likely to find an Oberhasli breeder just down the road, either, unfortunately.  (The differences between Oberhaslis and Alpines are a little surprising to me, considering that initially the two types were registered together in this country, until someone realized that in Switzerland, they were separate breeds.)

So now we have been carnivore for 10 months. There has been a lot of healing. There has been some weight loss - there would be more except for our biggest personal challenge:

SUGAR

UGH. We can go a couple months and somehow still fall down in the face of sugar. And I mean sugar. I've probably had bread/pasta/rice a total of 5 times in 10 months.
I thought that would be very hard but I rarely crave any other than just a "would like a different meal" kind of thing.
We continually get fooled into thinking we can have a little sugar. So, for example, I got some candied ginger to help with continued healing of my digestion.
It was very strong and I was "only" eating a piece a day. Until I was eating a handful and then half a bag.
Anyhow, that is an ongoing battle we are determined to win.

We have been truly pleased by how it has further simplified our homesteading.
Even on two acres with just some chickens and rabbits and a cow and occasional pig, my grocery store trip is down to very little food and a few nonfood items.
This has been especially helpful facing a move from Texas to Georgia which we are really making some progress on now.

This week, to get off my latest sugar fail, I am doing a 72 hour sardine fast. I am SO excited to be into my second day. I like sardines okay but I won't
lie, they do get old. It is supposed to help renew your mitochrondria as well as put you into ketosis. I haven't worried much about ketosis but I know
from past experience that ketosis is a state where I don't crave sugar.

Another thing I figured out in the past few months is I wasn't eating enough fat.
While I acclimate to eating more meat fat, I use butter to up my fat intake. I have learned to just eat a T of cold butter
with the side benefit that cold fat is easier on my stomach.  I despise tracking my food but I am doing so in short periods
in order to tweak what I need to do.

We are still hanging in there, too!  We eat a meal with carbs a little more often than you, maybe once or twice a month, because my sis-in-law likes to cook for all of us when she's feeling up to it, and she forgets that we aren't supposed to eat that stuff!  (She has memory issues, not sure if from lupus, or the meds she's on.  I wish I could persuade her to try carnivore for a while.)  

We tried the duck eggs, and found that even separating them and just eating the yolks, my daughter can't tolerate them.  I hadn't realized that she'd stopped doing what I call her 'broken record' act (repeating the same word or phrase over and over and over and over and ....), until we ate the duck egg yolks for a few days, and she started up again!  So, no eggs for us.  Le sigh.  We like eggs, they make a good quick and easy meal, and would allow us to try a few carnivore recipes for 'breads' and such things.  However, not at the expense of my daughter's brain shutting down!  I have sold about half of my ducks, and may just keep the few that are left.  They are pretty out in their pen, and come running when I bring their feed, so they can count as entertainment.  If I could be sure the dogs would leave them alone (the Anatolian probably would, the little dogs won't), I'd put them out in the goat pasture, so they could utilize the pond, and eat slugs and snails.  

I just picked up three Tamuk rabbits this morning -- two purebred does, and a young Tamuk X NZ buck.  We forgot to breed the does before I brought them home, and the buck is only a couple of months old (and weighs around five pounds -- he's twice the size of the purebred NZ litter she had that are the same age).  So I may take the does back over to get them bred.  I'm also looking for another good buck, as the one I got is the son of one of the does.  Rabbits don't generally have any problems with inbreeding, but I'd still rather not breed that closely.  I very much liked the looks of that crossbred litter, though.  (And she had one more Tamuk doe she wanted to sell -- I might pick her up, too, but need to get another cage up, first).

Just a suggestion, but if you are still having pain, try going strict carnivore for 30 days.  No honey, no fruit, etc.  That will probably cut your sugar craving right out!  That's what I had to do, and most of the time I don't even want anything sweet anymore.  The sardine diet should help, too -- I'm planning to try that, after the first of next month.  I don't actually like sardines much, but what I read about the diet said it's important to eat them packed in olive oil (or drizzle butter on top, or maybe even bacon grease).  We eat kipper snacks quite often, but the ones I buy are packed in water, so the fat level is too low.  I don't know how much nutritional difference there actually is between sardines and kipper snacks (herring fillets).  If I cheat while I'm in town and eat something sweet, I ALWAYS have pain in my joints by the time I get home from town.  So I suspect that the honey you are still eating may be the cause there.

It's always nice to hear from you, Kathleen!

I am sorry about the duck eggs but yes, your daughter's brain is the important consideration.

I have stopped the honey. We were experimenting with Xylitol mints but like anything else, it gets out of hand.
And yes, I can tell by my pain exactly how good I have been.

And yes, I am glad that I had just watched a vid that stressed bones & skin and in oil (or add fat). I like the kippers in water probably better but won't sub them for this.

Did you know I have Tamuk rabbits?! If I can help you with anything along those lines, feel free to message.

I have had NZs and may have some again in GA. Already networked with someone who has gorgeous Red and another person with beautiful blues.
My experience crossing is the first generation will look like Tamuk in terms of the thinner fur.
I often have folks come back to breed to my bucks. Slight amount of bio-risk but otherwise a good deal all around.

I haven't actually listened to Dr. Boz much, however, I really like Kelly Hogan as she seems honest and
practical and she has been carnivore for a long time. This was the video that inspired me to do a sardine
fast. I had heard of it before. What got me excited is the idea of causing the mitochrondria to get stronger
though clearing out the weaker units.

Karen Lee Mack wrote:

It's always nice to hear from you, Kathleen!

I am sorry about the duck eggs but yes, your daughter's brain is the important consideration.

I have stopped the honey. We were experimenting with Xylitol mints but like anything else, it gets out of hand.
And yes, I can tell by my pain exactly how good I have been.

And yes, I am glad that I had just watched a vid that stressed bones & skin and in oil (or add fat). I like the kippers in water probably better but won't sub them for this.

Did you know I have Tamuk rabbits?! If I can help you with anything along those lines, feel free to message.

I have had NZs and may have some again in GA. Already networked with someone who has gorgeous Red and another person with beautiful blues.
My experience crossing is the first generation will look like Tamuk in terms of the thinner fur.
I often have folks come back to breed to my bucks. Slight amount of bio-risk but otherwise a good deal all around.

I did not know you had Tamuk rabbits!  I had been watching Craigslist for one of the commercial strains of NZ -- they come up once in a while.  I'd heard of the Tamuk rabbits, but hadn't looked into them much until I saw the ad for them on Craigslist.  I'd like to get a purebred buck at some point, but I figured since we are just raising meat for ourselves and to supplement the dogs (I've actually switched them primarily to raw meat with bones, and I'm buying a lot of cheap chicken, but figured home-grown rabbit might be healthier for them), we can deal with the NZ x Tamuk buck for now.  When I take the does back to the lady I bought them from to get bred, probably day after tomorrow because my brother plans to replace my bathroom sink/vanity/faucet tomorrow, they'll be bred to a NZ buck again, because she doesn't have a Tamuk buck.  But I really liked the two-month-old size of the crossbred litter she had.  I've had NZ's before, a couple of times, and have found them to be a little more nervous and skittish than I like.  Though, they were the Whites.  I've heard that the colored ones aren't quite as nervous.  That was one thing I liked when I was reading about the Tamuks, that they are supposed to be a little more docile.  

I had just watched a video with Dr. Boz, can't remember if it was Kelly Hogan she was talking with (I think it was).  That's what spurred me to think about doing the sardine fast.  I'm not gaining weight, but I'm not really losing much, either.  Need to shake loose and get moving again.  On the plus side, Juniper was underweight for several years.  She very consistently would eat one day, and not eat the next day.  She'd gotten down to about 98 lbs at one point -- she's only 5'2" and fine-boned, so that wasn't desperately low, but she's now eating just fine, every single day (the last time we had a day she couldn't eat was after we'd been off carnivore for several days because we had company).  And her weight is back up to a healthy level, and she looks so much better!  She still fits in her size six jeans, though!

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:[quote=Karen Lee Mack

I did not know you had Tamuk rabbits!  I had been watching Craigslist for one of the commercial strains of NZ -- they come up once in a while.  I'd heard of the Tamuk rabbits, but hadn't looked into them much until I saw the ad for them on Craigslist.  I'd like to get a purebred buck at some point, but I figured since we are just raising meat for ourselves and to supplement the dogs (I've actually switched them primarily to raw meat with bones, and I'm buying a lot of cheap chicken, but figured home-grown rabbit might be healthier for them), we can deal with the NZ x Tamuk buck for now.  When I take the does back to the lady I bought them from to get bred, probably day after tomorrow because my brother plans to replace my bathroom sink/vanity/faucet tomorrow, they'll be bred to a NZ buck again, because she doesn't have a Tamuk buck.  But I really liked the two-month-old size of the crossbred litter she had.  I've had NZ's before, a couple of times, and have found them to be a little more nervous and skittish than I like.  Though, they were the Whites.  I've heard that the colored ones aren't quite as nervous.  That was one thing I liked when I was reading about the Tamuks, that they are supposed to be a little more docile.  

I had just watched a video with Dr. Boz, can't remember if it was Kelly Hogan she was talking with (I think it was).  That's what spurred me to think about doing the sardine fast.  I'm not gaining weight, but I'm not really losing much, either.  Need to shake loose and get moving again.  On the plus side, Juniper was underweight for several years.  She very consistently would eat one day, and not eat the next day.  She'd gotten down to about 98 lbs at one point -- she's only 5'2" and fine-boned, so that wasn't desperately low, but she's now eating just fine, every single day (the last time we had a day she couldn't eat was after we'd been off carnivore for several days because we had company).  And her weight is back up to a healthy level, and she looks so much better!  She still fits in her size six jeans, though!

I've bred Tamuk composites for 4 years now. I absolutely love them. Dr. Lukefahr developed them to be good for backyard breeding in Texas and he really hit the mark. They are somewhat less meaty than NZ due to the different body shape that helps with heat tolerance. My experience is that they do cross well with NZ and that works fine for meat. I ended up getting rid of the NZs I had in my current situation because I was successful selling breeders and I want them to be full Tamuk (I say full instead of pure just because they are not an ARBA registered breed). Not a lot of rabbits where I live and I so enjoy working with the newbies and the young families that find me.

In general, Tamuk are more docile than NZ and lovely to work with. I have heard that about the colored NZ as well which is why I may try some when I have more room and I am not limited to 32 cages for everything, growouts and all!

That is exactly us with our dogs. Because of our breeder, we started feeding raw chicken quarters with access to grainfree kibble. But yes, I love when I have rabbit to give them. Or any of our other processings. I now only have to resort to buying chicken for isolated times. If something happens (had one somehow break their back recently), I can dispatch and toss them a whole rabbit and they divide it between them. Probably not recommended lol but it works for them.

That is me as well, not gaining but not losing and yeah, want to shake it up and get my body going. For me, it means having more energy and less pain and then I nearly automatically move more.
Got through the 2nd day and into Day #3! Yes, I am looking forward to being done but I am so proud of me I can't stand myself. It is highly encouraging. So glad to hear how well Juniper is doing. One of my daughters has moved more towards a meat based diet and is doing well with it. It really helps the hormones - she has PCOS so help is truly appreciated.

This guy is talking about exactly what this thread is all about - how does going carnivore affect your health and affect your homesteading.

Karen Lee Mack wrote:This guy is talking about exactly what this thread is all about - how does going carnivore affect your health and affect your homesteading.

https://youtu.be/Uz-fER9rPZM?si=tFTx7KFxpj8sfxzT

I posted in the comments on that video!

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:

Karen Lee Mack wrote:This guy is talking about exactly what this thread is all about - how does going carnivore affect your health and affect your homesteading.

https://youtu.be/Uz-fER9rPZM?si=tFTx7KFxpj8sfxzT

I posted in the comments on that video!

So I'm about 50 hours into this week's sardine fast. In order to do that, I have taken advantage of a couple recipes.
There may be an egg in one but I am not allergic to eggs so hoping that doesn't mess it up too much. The main
benefit to me is it resets my hunger and potential cravings while insuring I'm getting dense nutrition.
The most servings I've eaten in one day is 4  - I don't want to eat too little but I think I'm fairly fat adapted
and there is plenty of body fat still available.

Anyhow, our moving plan is proceding pretty well so I hope to be writing in from Georgia by Christmas!

Karen Lee Mack wrote:This guy is talking about exactly what this thread is all about - how does going carnivore affect your health and affect your homesteading.

Super busy today, so I didn't have time to listen to the whole video, but right off the top of my head, I was thinking , 'what are your animals eating???' Ok, maybe they're eating some grass, but our chickens eat a commercial pellet that is mostly wheat (no corn or soya). Growing sub-straight for raising Black Soldier Flies for chickens would be awesome, if I wasn't a bit far north for them.

I don't grow rabbits, so I'm not sure what one would specifically grow for them.

One of the underlying principles of homesteading is to try to produce not just for yourselves, but for your animals also. I'm no where near that point yet, but I'm trying to head that way. In the short term, my ducks and geese adore the apples we produce and the chickens and ducks will eat every bit of kale I can keep away from the deer!