Permie themed Science Fiction / fantasy

I have been plotting this story out for 37 years - and others :

This tale starts slightly in our future . The greatest physicist since Einstein is on the verge of creating the first warp drive . This will allow him to pilot a time ship a short distance into earths future - 500-1000 years . The scientific community is waiting on their tippy toes . Of course no other can complete the task . This man is not only light years ahead theoretically but also selfish for the glory . So , he is keeping the project under deep cover . Suddenly , he goes off his rocker . He abandons all work on the time travel project and destroys his apparatus . He destroys all record of his research and becomes the most fanatical seed saver and forest gardener imaginable . Now rather than warping time he is in a race against it . A raving John the Baptist of permaculture . His approach appears obsessed and compulsive . These plants and animals must be introduced at this position on the GPS , these earthworks here , wilderness must be reintroduced there . Overnight this man has a map and list of seeds and animal DNA that must be gathered and stored in the most unlikely of places . He is able to gather a small army of men and women willing to help and do . The man passes on at a late age in life still working fanatically . He has left behind detailed instructions for his helpers to continue his work for generations .
When the man passes away we learn from his last memories the motivation for the madness . He had completed the warp drive . He travelled 800 years into our future . The world is desolate and desertified . Humans number less than a million living in small pockets around the planet . Most species of plant and animal life are extinct . A few hundred people are waiting for him . They know he is coming . They have history books . He is put on trial . People now live in a world where the only sin is waste . Wasting food and water is the only capital crime . Wasting energy condemns you to slavery . He is now on trial for the energy it took to travel into time . The bureaucratic types want him to suffer the letter of the law . Of course the trial becomes a moral condemnation of our present use of energy and resources . But he has freinds . A small secret society surfaces who also knew he was coming and had prepared an alternative "punishment" for him . This secret society are keepers of books and records on permaculture and biodiversity , soil science , and geography . They have been keeping maps and records for generations plotting out the plans that our scientist returns to the present with . Of course , our hero becomes a willing participant in his own salvation made remorseful by his view of mans' future . Thus , his crazed fanaticism is revealed to be only fervor and desperation .
At books end we are left to wonder . Did his efforts survive into the fiuture and create oases of biodiversity . Or did he stem the tide of destruction and help earth to avoid the calamnity altogether ?

Cassie Langstraat wrote:I don't know if this is specifically permaculture fiction but the Margaret Atwood Maddadam trilogy could possibly fit into this category.

That trilogy was awesome! And so scary because everyday reality seems to come closer to her dystopian vision!

The friend who recommended the book just told me HBO is planning a mini-series. And she sent me links to 2 articles, which I haven't had the heart to read, on pigoons:

Modified pigs to grow humanized lungs | UTSanDiego.com

Wayne Stephen : You write it and I will contribute to the kickstarter campaign to get it published ! Don't forget the gratuitous sex !!! Big AL

I'm surprised no one has recommended Ecotopia! I read the 25 years ago and really enjoyed it.

wayne stephen wrote:I have been plotting this story out for 37 years - and others :

This tale starts slightly in our future . The greatest physicist since Einstein is on the verge of creating the first warp drive . This will allow him to pilot a time ship a short distance into earths future - 500-1000 years . The scientific community is waiting on their tippy toes . Of course no other can complete the task . This man is not only light years ahead theoretically but also selfish for the glory . So , he is keeping the project under deep cover . Suddenly , he goes off his rocker . He abandons all work on the time travel project and destroys his apparatus . He destroys all record of his research and becomes the most fanatical seed saver and forest gardener imaginable . Now rather than warping time he is in a race against it . A raving John the Baptist of permaculture . His approach appears obsessed and compulsive . These plants and animals must be introduced at this position on the GPS , these earthworks here , wilderness must be reintroduced there . Overnight this man has a map and list of seeds and animal DNA that must be gathered and stored in the most unlikely of places . He is able to gather a small army of men and women willing to help and do . The man passes on at a late age in life still working fanatically . He has left behind detailed instructions for his helpers to continue his work for generations .
When the man passes away we learn from his last memories the motivation for the madness . He had completed the warp drive . He travelled 800 years into our future . The world is desolate and desertified . Humans number less than a million living in small pockets around the planet . Most species of plant and animal life are extinct . A few hundred people are waiting for him . They know he is coming . They have history books . He is put on trial . People now live in a world where the only sin is waste . Wasting food and water is the only capital crime . Wasting energy condemns you to slavery . He is now on trial for the energy it took to travel into time . The bureaucratic types want him to suffer the letter of the law . Of course the trial becomes a moral condemnation of our present use of energy and resources . But he has freinds . A small secret society surfaces who also knew he was coming and had prepared an alternative "punishment" for him . This secret society are keepers of books and records on permaculture and biodiversity , soil science , and geography . They have been keeping maps and records for generations plotting out the plans that our scientist returns to the present with . Of course , our hero becomes a willing participant in his own salvation made remorseful by his view of mans' future . Thus , his crazed fanaticism is revealed to be only fervor and desperation .
At books end we are left to wonder . Did his efforts survive into the fiuture and create oases of biodiversity . Or did he stem the tide of destruction and help earth to avoid the calamnity altogether ?

Now I am jealous I didn't think of this plotline first! Sounds like it could be a really compelling read if written right. It also sounds like you have it worked out far enough you could start writing right away!

Wayne - I thought your plot was awesome too!

One thing that we might consider is doing an anthology of short stories - just to get everyone's juices flowing (so to speak).

Margaret Atwood - one of my most favorite and most disturbing authors! A mini-series would be cool!

Edited to add: I always thought it would be fun to write an anthology on the SAME story - where everyone takes a character and tells the story from their viewpoint.

Jennifer Wadsworth wrote:

Edited to add: I always thought it would be fun to write an anthology on the SAME story - where everyone takes a character and tells the story from their viewpoint.

I love the idea of this also! I have seen something similar to this and thought it was really cool. For example, Ahab's Wife: Or, the Star-Gazer is a book written from the perspective of, obviously, Ahab's (from Moby Dick) wife! I have never actually read this particular book but I love the concept. I also think someone might have done one from the perspective of the one african woman in Heart of Darkness, but I can't remember if I was just thinking that would be a good one to do. Also I have talked to people about how it would be cool to the same thing but for A River Runs Through It. A story from the women's point of view. What were they doing while the men in their family were fishing all day every day? Ha! Anyway, sort of off topic tangent but I like it!

Cj,


Yay! I am so glad someone else has read it around here! I was a little bit disappointed in the last book to be honest, but the overall trilogy was great. I just wish she would have gone more into what happens with the crakers. Instead she focused so much on Zeb's life and him and Toby's relationship. I wanted to know how the crakers and humans end up. Did they just go down our old paths? Because I mean it ends with the little craker boy learning to read. So is that a indication that they will just turn out like us? I have so many questions! Do you think she will write another book? I think she definitely left it open ended enough for herself to possibly write one more.

Anyway, I read the first one for a class in my last year of college. (The class was called EcoCriticism and it sort of meshed literature and environmental science and philosophy all into one. It was awesome.) We had to look up something in the book and see if it was already happening. We got some weird shit that day in class. Glow in the dark bunnies. Mice with human ears growing on them. Like you mentioned, pigs with human lungs. Sheep growing the same thing. It brought up a LOT of ethical debates. That is for SURE. Pretty weird and scary stuff.

The food was probably the grossest. Secret Burger, where no one had any idea where the meat came from. That is definitely something starting to happen in our current society. Hopefully it won't evolve to random garbage and humans! Ha!

On the Piers Anthony book-do you remember what year the 2nd edition came out? I have a friend who is a fan of Anthony's, I might see about borrowing it if he has it.

D. Logan wrote:

Landon Sunrich wrote:

D. Logan wrote:I have often thought of writing a book with permaculture central to the themes, but have yet to come up with an idea in that vein that I felt was worthy of the weighty topic. I think if the central story isn't compelling enough to stand on its own, then it just comes across as preachy and doesn't do justice.

What about a Druid who wanders the world summing forth earth power with guilded seed balls. Shattering a bleak concrete landscape of some long lost cultures and healing fetid oily tar bogs filled with all manor of strange creatures (like Phrexians, or evil mushrooms!) and meeting strange nomads crossing windswept deserts making oasis (oasi?) as they go. A battle to bring nature back from the brink in a world overtaken

With the electrical wires taking on lives of their own, creeping over the earth like tendrils and networking with crazy transdimentional super silicon beings come to destroy the carbon world of mortals ! Crazy tripped out stuff like that. What a world - what a character!

Damn it. I am such a nerd.

That could make the start of a rather interesting story, though I suspect the permaculture nature would be lost on the majority of readers. It runs the risk of being too heavy-handed as a rebuttal of the negative. I think I would like to do something where the story focus' on the positive that could be done without dwelling on the mistakes. The less I remind the reader of societies poor choices and instead immerse them in the joys of permaculture, the more likely I am to draw them fully into a desire to live that lifestyle. Just my own thinking though.

On another note, I just remembered a book by Piers Anthony called "But What of Earth". It exists in two versions. The first is almost impossible to find and is heavily edited in a manner that was morally questionable. The second version is edited as the author intended and also includes a lot of notes about the horrible editing job done to butcher the original text. The basic premise of the story is that much of the population of earth is leaving due to matter transmission technology (originating in another series he was doing at the time) and it focus' on the people left behind and how they are realizing the value of the earth that they had all been in such a rush to destroy. I don't remember it being permaculture really, but it was very earth-friendly. Might be a good read for anyone who can find a copy. I haven't read it in over a decade though, so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details.

The guy who wrote the Redwall books is dead. I dont think you'll be asking him anything.

D. Logan wrote:

Sam Barber wrote:

I quite honestly believe if we could somehow explain to people that permaculture would make it possible for the average person to harvest prepare all of the dishes describe in the various Red Wall feasts out of their own back yard and give them the time at home to cook them we could convert the better part of an entire generation worth of people virtually overnight.


As for my self - I'd probably read permaculture fiction especially if it had graphic detailed description of manual labor techniques (rawr!), polyculture phenology (hubba hubba!) and conniving intrusive mushroom-alien overlords bent on bending the universe to their own will (just me?) - until then I guess I'll just have to keep trying to make the fantasy a reality. Oh well.

Yes I agree that would be awesome! Those feasts were awesomely delicious it was so cool.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to contact the author and see if he might be interested in endorsing/co-authoring a Red Wall cookbook. Something to consider.

Wide Sargasso Sea-by Jean Rhys (book followed by movie) was a pre-quel to Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre. Excellent story.

Cassie Langstraat wrote:

Jennifer Wadsworth wrote:

Edited to add: I always thought it would be fun to write an anthology on the SAME story - where everyone takes a character and tells the story from their viewpoint.

I love the idea of this also! I have seen something similar to this and thought it was really cool. For example, Ahab's Wife: Or, the Star-Gazer is a book written from the perspective of, obviously, Ahab's (from Moby Dick) wife! I have never actually read this particular book but I love the concept. I also think someone might have done one from the perspective of the one african woman in Heart of Darkness, but I can't remember if I was just thinking that would be a good one to do. Also I have talked to people about how it would be cool to the same thing but for A River Runs Through It. A story from the women's point of view. What were they doing while the men in their family were fishing all day every day? Ha! Anyway, sort of off topic tangent but I like it!

Jennifer Wadsworth wrote:Wayne - I thought your plot was awesome too!

One thing that we might consider is doing an anthology of short stories - just to get everyone's juices flowing (so to speak).

Margaret Atwood - one of my most favorite and most disturbing authors! A mini-series would be cool!

Edited to add: I always thought it would be fun to write an anthology on the SAME story - where everyone takes a character and tells the story from their viewpoint.

Something kind of similar is already being done and has been for some time. They are called Shared World series. Mostly fantasy story lines, but a few sf as well. Google it if your interested.

Two sf books that deal with surviving in a hostile environment are The Dispossessed by Ursula K. LeGuin (primarily anarchist but also makes points on environmental issues-she also wrote supporting short stories to the novel)


And Twilight of the Basilisks by Jacob Transue-which I think may have been a pen name. Long out of print and hard as hell to find, this is certainly a permaculture sf story
Excellent, excellent book.

Just went looking-again-for this author and actually found a little info this time.

Jacob Transue was the pen name for Joan Transue Matheson. Born 1924, died 1995. Only other published work is a short story published in various anthologies, titled This Corruptible (1968 I think) Also under Jacob Transue. No wonder I could never find anything else by this writer! Real shame.

Another is Parable of the Sower by Octavia E. Butler.

Kind of depressing, so I'm not sure if I can recommend it.. Trees as a more dependable food source is mentioned, as is foraging.

Cassie Langstraat wrote:I wanted to know how the crakers and humans end up. Did they just go down our old paths? Because I mean it ends with the little craker boy learning to read. So is that a indication that they will just turn out like us? I have so many questions!

This series was sooooo dense it's a bit hard to remember the specifics but they can't go down our old paths because the resources (oil, metals) have been used or hard to get. Glen even mentions that.

I think a hybrid baby was born towards the end, so my guess is humanity evolves, just not the way Glen intended exactly. It reminded me of Geoff Lawton saying we have to design our own evolution.

Jacki Perry wrote:On the Piers Anthony book-do you remember what year the 2nd edition came out? I have a friend who is a fan of Anthony's, I might see about borrowing it if he has it.

D. Logan wrote:

Landon Sunrich wrote:

D. Logan wrote:I have often thought of writing a book with permaculture central to the themes, but have yet to come up with an idea in that vein that I felt was worthy of the weighty topic. I think if the central story isn't compelling enough to stand on its own, then it just comes across as preachy and doesn't do justice.

What about a Druid who wanders the world summing forth earth power with guilded seed balls. Shattering a bleak concrete landscape of some long lost cultures and healing fetid oily tar bogs filled with all manor of strange creatures (like Phrexians, or evil mushrooms!) and meeting strange nomads crossing windswept deserts making oasis (oasi?) as they go. A battle to bring nature back from the brink in a world overtaken

With the electrical wires taking on lives of their own, creeping over the earth like tendrils and networking with crazy transdimentional super silicon beings come to destroy the carbon world of mortals ! Crazy tripped out stuff like that. What a world - what a character!

Damn it. I am such a nerd.

That could make the start of a rather interesting story, though I suspect the permaculture nature would be lost on the majority of readers. It runs the risk of being too heavy-handed as a rebuttal of the negative. I think I would like to do something where the story focus' on the positive that could be done without dwelling on the mistakes. The less I remind the reader of societies poor choices and instead immerse them in the joys of permaculture, the more likely I am to draw them fully into a desire to live that lifestyle. Just my own thinking though.

On another note, I just remembered a book by Piers Anthony called "But What of Earth". It exists in two versions. The first is almost impossible to find and is heavily edited in a manner that was morally questionable. The second version is edited as the author intended and also includes a lot of notes about the horrible editing job done to butcher the original text. The basic premise of the story is that much of the population of earth is leaving due to matter transmission technology (originating in another series he was doing at the time) and it focus' on the people left behind and how they are realizing the value of the earth that they had all been in such a rush to destroy. I don't remember it being permaculture really, but it was very earth-friendly. Might be a good read for anyone who can find a copy. I haven't read it in over a decade though, so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details.

The original trashed version was through Laser Books. Don't blame Robert Coulson (the man who also appeared on the byline and who did the hackjob on the book) if you happen to find a copy though, the fault lies with the publisher. The correct version is published by Tor on July of 1989. I am pretty sure that was the only run of that book outside of the one in 76 that is basically unfindable and unworthy of finding.

Jacki Perry wrote:The guy who wrote the Redwall books is dead. I dont think you'll be asking him anything.

D. Logan wrote:

Sam Barber wrote:

I quite honestly believe if we could somehow explain to people that permaculture would make it possible for the average person to harvest prepare all of the dishes describe in the various Red Wall feasts out of their own back yard and give them the time at home to cook them we could convert the better part of an entire generation worth of people virtually overnight.


As for my self - I'd probably read permaculture fiction especially if it had graphic detailed description of manual labor techniques (rawr!), polyculture phenology (hubba hubba!) and conniving intrusive mushroom-alien overlords bent on bending the universe to their own will (just me?) - until then I guess I'll just have to keep trying to make the fantasy a reality. Oh well.

Yes I agree that would be awesome! Those feasts were awesomely delicious it was so cool.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to contact the author and see if he might be interested in endorsing/co-authoring a Red Wall cookbook. Something to consider.

That does make it harder. Whoever the rights holder is in that case. If it is already in the public domain, then it is fair game entirely to author whatever you want. Odds are if it was any good and the author had family at all, it isn't public domain though. Also there is that pesky time issue. No idea how you would find the current rights holder if there hasn't been a recent publication of it though.

Two recommendations for Permie SF via Vinay Gupta with nonspoilery descriptions:

Mother of Hydrogen by Vinay Gupta- a drone pilot, his son, and his hippie wizard brother FIGHT CRIME

Green Days in Brunei by Bruce Sterling- Engineer trying to set up sustainable manufacturing in a backwards but permie economy runs in to cultural differences.


I can't recommend Vinay highly enough for his REALLY DIFFERENT take on permaculture and the world. If you've ever wondered about the place that industry and manufacturing might have in a permacultured society, Vinay Gupta is a good place to start.

Okay, I'm chiming in here.


I'm a fantasy and SF author with more than 35 books of both fiction and nonfiction to my name. Oh, and I lost my mind many moons ago (no surprise there!) and became a publisher three years ago (there may be a connection there ). My publishing company is Sky Warrior Book Publishing LLC at Sky Warrior Books. I also write for Mother Earth News and you can check out some of my articles at Eating Wild Montana.

Jennifer Wadsworth wrote:

Margaret Atwood - one of my most favorite and most disturbing authors! A mini-series would be cool!

margaret atwood is one of my all time favorite writers. i guess she was a little sci fi ish, more of a naturalist, definitely lots of environmentalist slant in all her works.

octavia butler was also an interesting person, i am not as familiar with her stuff as i would like to be...

Alder Burns wrote: Ursula K. LeGuin

She's a genius.
Mary Doria Russell while not in any obvious way permaculture,
her books deal with themes like the dangers of mucking about with ecological balance, cultural miscommunication, the complexities of concepts like 'good and 'evil'...
And yes, they're quite a challenging read!

I am surprised nobody mentioned S.M. Sterlings works.

Dies the Fire is the first of something like seven books. Its the first two or three that would be of interest to those here. As they struggle to relearn how to live simply without technology, the different groups deal with the issues in different ways and its quite interesting. There is another series about Nantucket and again, the first one or two have the most relevance but good solid fun reads with a lot of things that would resonate for anyone here.


From Wiki
Dies The Fire takes place in post-apocalyptic Oregon, in a time when an unknown phenomenon permanently disables all forms of modern technology, electricity, and combustion, including computers, electronics, guns, car and jet engines, and batteries. People are forced to adapt to a world without technology, and rely on swords and crossbows for protection. Many people starve, while others rob, rape, and pillage. Many even turn to cannibalism. Due to the collapse of public order, some band together, forming small farming communities on the outskirts of cities, while urban areas fall to sword-wielding warlords. The book follows the Bearkiller Outfit and the Clan Mackenzie, as they struggle to survive, and attempt to understand the mystery of what exactly made the lights go out in this post-apocalyptic world.

Michael Bush wrote:I am surprised nobody mentioned S.M. Sterlings works.

Dies the Fire is the first of something like seven books. Its the first two or three that would be of interest to those here. As they struggle to relearn how to live simply without technology, the different groups deal with the issues in different ways and its quite interesting. There is another series about Nantucket and again, the first one or two have the most relevance but good solid fun reads with a lot of things that would resonate for anyone here.


From Wiki
Dies The Fire takes place in post-apocalyptic Oregon, in a time when an unknown phenomenon permanently disables all forms of modern technology, electricity, and combustion, including computers, electronics, guns, car and jet engines, and batteries. People are forced to adapt to a world without technology, and rely on swords and crossbows for protection. Many people starve, while others rob, rape, and pillage. Many even turn to cannibalism. Due to the collapse of public order, some band together, forming small farming communities on the outskirts of cities, while urban areas fall to sword-wielding warlords. The book follows the Bearkiller Outfit and the Clan Mackenzie, as they struggle to survive, and attempt to understand the mystery of what exactly made the lights go out in this post-apocalyptic world.

Those are awesome books I was having similar thoughts during the book such as how permaculture could help these people to improve there condition.
-Sam

ah thought of a good one for you all. =)
not sci fi, but heavy on fantasy, a wonderful read. not exactly permaculture, but strongly related with a lot of love of nature, forest, trees and animals.i've owned and given away two copies of this book and read it a few times.
The Diary of Opal Whiteley
the mystical nature diary of opal whiteley - the singing creek where the willows grow


opal whiteley

"Now comes the days of brown leaves. They fall from the trees. They flutter on the ground. When the leaves flutter, they are saying little things. I hear them tell of their borning days when they did come into the world as leaves. Today they told me how they were a part of the earth and air before their tree borning days. And now, they are going back. In gray days of winter they go back to the earth. But they do not die."

heres a link to the book... the singing creek where the willows grow.

http://intersect.uoregon.edu/opal/toc.html

^^^they have put the whole book online.^^^

One of my friends at school introduced me to National Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo). I think this will be a good time for any permie writers to try writing a novel. The objective of NaNoWriMo is to write 50,000 words in one month; they have in-person events where people can get together and eat and talk and work on their novels together.

It is November the 3rd! NaNoWriMO just began two days ago, and I have decided to participate. So by the end of November, the goal, I will hopefully have finished my novel on time. I have jus gotten through my first 4,0000 words and should have 6,000 by the end of tonight. this is my first time participating! Let's get those permie writers out there! Afterwords, December is unofficially National Novel Editing Month, and January is unofficially National Novel Publishing Month. If anyone else is interested in being a buddy with me in NaNoWriMo, my name is DaveCB485.

Here is a synopsis of my novel: (The same thing is posted on my NaNoWriMo page)

500 years have pasted since the humans defeated the gods in war; all of the gods leftover from the war were banished, or so we think. The Fallen were preserved as reminders to the Survivors that any gods who returned to humanity's realm will be killed on site- no exceptions. The human magicians bound the Fallen's power into artifacts that are rotated on display in museums protected by the International Department of Magic and Public Relations (idMPR).

One summoner with ill-intent, one cult on a quest, and one Guardian to kill them all.

Here is the intro excerpt to my novel: (I am biased towards in media res because I hate reading introductions, I like to be thrown into the action when I read. So, I have done likewise.)

Thump, squish, thump, squish, thump-thump-thump-SQUISH!

"Awake!"

"Red alert! Red alert The Heart of Osiris has been stolen!"

Bending over Simon, Doctor Tony franticly placed the Scales of Anubis in Simon's hands and stabbed himself in the heart. Tony's life force glimmered purple as it flowed from his body, through the Scales, into Simon's body. His chest cavity was closed, and his heart was regenerated. Simon's original heart was inside the Guardian; in three weeks, the magic would wear off and the Guardian would realize the Heart was missing.

As Simon undid the straps which held him to the operating table, he gazed longingly into Tony's turquoise eyes. Gently, he caressed Tony's short brown hair and kissed him before laying the body on the floor.

"SITUATION CRITICAL! THE BUILDING HAS BEEN COMPRISED! EXIT THE BUILDING NOW!"

The wording in this scene needs some work, but it is fairly enjoyable as is, I think: (this scene happens after Simon escapes and arrives at his homestead and has an emotional breakdown about losing his boyfriend)

[Simon] passed the kitchen, the meat chopping block, and exited onto the wooden porch which creaked as his feet stepped on it. It was a gentle creak, the reassuring sound that mothers and fathers wait for to know that their children are home; he had always waited each night for that creak to tell him softly that his lover Tony was home, but that was all for nought and made him cry. Tony had sacrificed himself to keep Simon alive, but it all meant nothing now that the Heart of Osiris was gone and the Guardian is going to be hunting him down in three weeks. Well, may as well enjoy what little time there is left, Simon thought as he walked across the porch and past his herb spiral. The mint was doing well and so were the rosemary, thyme, and other lovely fragrant herbs. They all looked pretty as their flowers danced in the gentle breeze that coursed through the food forest and cuddled his face and plants. Maybe it was a good time to make a mint julep; that mint sure seemed peachy to him. Nah, on second thought, his stomach did not handle alcohol very well, and he knew better. Last time he had alcohol, it was at church during his first communion, and he threw up half-digested scrambled eggs, bacon, orange juice, wine, and all onto the bishop. The bishop stayed silent and made the sign of the cross on his forehead seven times and continued to give communion to the rest of the children with liquids and food still dripping down his robe, and the congregation just gapped in horror and proceeded to pray to the Lord for Simon, even though Dionysus was probably a better choice. Those stains on the bishop’s robes would not come out very easily and nor would the humiliation Simon felt. That would a pretty hard thing to live up to. So he carried on his way past the herb spiral and dismissed the thought of drinking a mint julep from his mind. Though, puke can always go into a compost pile for recycling. Better not, it would be a waste of energy to try again and expect different results; that was the definition of insanity, he thought. So he continued walking past the herb spiral, and short annuals surrounded the mulched path that he walked on. As he got closer to the food forest, the plants started to change from short annuals, to tall annuals, to short biennials, to tall biennials, then to short perennials, and finally to tall perennials which welcomed Simon into the food forest’s final that melded into the food forest itself. Where he stood, persimmon saplings reached up to chest, and he patted their lovely heads. In time, they would be big and strong, just like Simon’s relationship with Tony had grown from a simple chat at a coffee shop in town to ten years of a domestic partnership. Simon cried, teardrops trickling down his tan blonde fuzzy face, and he held the picture even closer to his chest. The pain hurt him; it was worse than anything else that had happened to him before. Hands clutched closely to his chest, he ducked beneath a paw-paw tree and sent the chickens and goats running in all directions as he dashed into the food forest to hide, eat, cry, and experience catharsis; such strong emotions had to be purged. Birds flew back into their nests and squirrels scampered up the trees as the sound of his feet breaking branches and leaves echoed throughout Simon’s food forest.

Hope I have attracted some interest! I am kinda also telling you this because there is no point in writing a novel and enjoying the write if that joy is not going to be shared. The novel will be a conglomeration of many things. Something erotic, something neurotic, something ironic, something profound, "something for everyone on comedy tonight!". Love that movie!

Here are the general sub-themes I will be covering or try to integrate into my novel:
-permaculture (won't be the main theme but it will be a recurring sub-theme)
-ethics gone astray
-human sexuality
-death and the afterlife
-religion
-government
-the nature of humanity
-gender
-relationships
-and a whole lot of other stuff (that is kinda what sub themes are, little things one can add to move the plot along and motivate their characters)

My style of writing is on the fly, so do not ask me about my characters' motives yet. I will figure that out as I go.

Dave Burton wrote:It is November the 3rd! NaNoWriMO just began two days ago, and I have decided to participate. So by the end of November, the goal, I will hopefully have finished my novel on time. I have jus gotten through my first 4,0000 words and should have 6,000 by the end of tonight. this is my first time participating! Let's get those permie writers out there! Afterwords, December is unofficially National Novel Editing Month, and January is unofficially National Novel Publishing Month. If anyone else is interested in being a buddy with me in NaNoWriMo, my name is DaveCB485.

Here is a synopsis of my novel: (The same thing is posted on my NaNoWriMo page)

500 years have pasted since the humans defeated the gods in war; all of the gods leftover from the war were banished, or so we think. The Fallen were preserved as reminders to the Survivors that any gods who returned to humanity's realm will be killed on site- no exceptions. The human magicians bound the Fallen's power into artifacts that are rotated on display in museums protected by the International Department of Magic and Public Relations (idMPR).

One summoner with ill-intent, one cult on a quest, and one Guardian to kill them all.

Here is the intro excerpt to my novel: (I am biased towards in media res because I hate reading introductions, I like to be thrown into the action when I read. So, I have done likewise.)

Thump, squish, thump, squish, thump-thump-thump-SQUISH!

"Awake!"

"Red alert! Red alert The Heart of Osiris has been stolen!"

Bending over Simon, Doctor Tony franticly placed the Scales of Anubis in Simon's hands and stabbed himself in the heart. Tony's life force glimmered purple as it flowed from his body, through the Scales, into Simon's body. His chest cavity was closed, and his heart was regenerated. Simon's original heart was inside the Guardian; in three weeks, the magic would wear off and the Guardian would realize the Heart was missing.

As Simon undid the straps which held him to the operating table, he gazed longingly into Tony's turquoise eyes. Gently, he caressed Tony's short brown hair and kissed him before laying the body on the floor.

"SITUATION CRITICAL! THE BUILDING HAS BEEN COMPRISED! EXIT THE BUILDING NOW!"

The wording in this scene needs some work, but it is fairly enjoyable as is, I think: (this scene happens after Simon escapes and arrives at his homestead and has an emotional breakdown about losing his boyfriend)

[Simon] passed the kitchen, the meat chopping block, and exited onto the wooden porch which creaked as his feet stepped on it. It was a gentle creak, the reassuring sound that mothers and fathers wait for to know that their children are home; he had always waited each night for that creak to tell him softly that his lover Tony was home, but that was all for nought and made him cry. Tony had sacrificed himself to keep Simon alive, but it all meant nothing now that the Heart of Osiris was gone and the Guardian is going to be hunting him down in three weeks. Well, may as well enjoy what little time there is left, Simon thought as he walked across the porch and past his herb spiral. The mint was doing well and so were the rosemary, thyme, and other lovely fragrant herbs. They all looked pretty as their flowers danced in the gentle breeze that coursed through the food forest and cuddled his face and plants. Maybe it was a good time to make a mint julep; that mint sure seemed peachy to him. Nah, on second thought, his stomach did not handle alcohol very well, and he knew better. Last time he had alcohol, it was at church during his first communion, and he threw up half-digested scrambled eggs, bacon, orange juice, wine, and all onto the bishop. The bishop stayed silent and made the sign of the cross on his forehead seven times and continued to give communion to the rest of the children with liquids and food still dripping down his robe, and the congregation just gapped in horror and proceeded to pray to the Lord for Simon, even though Dionysus was probably a better choice. Those stains on the bishop’s robes would not come out very easily and nor would the humiliation Simon felt. That would a pretty hard thing to live up to. So he carried on his way past the herb spiral and dismissed the thought of drinking a mint julep from his mind. Though, puke can always go into a compost pile for recycling. Better not, it would be a waste of energy to try again and expect different results; that was the definition of insanity, he thought. So he continued walking past the herb spiral, and short annuals surrounded the mulched path that he walked on. As he got closer to the food forest, the plants started to change from short annuals, to tall annuals, to short biennials, to tall biennials, then to short perennials, and finally to tall perennials which welcomed Simon into the food forest’s final that melded into the food forest itself. Where he stood, persimmon saplings reached up to chest, and he patted their lovely heads. In time, they would be big and strong, just like Simon’s relationship with Tony had grown from a simple chat at a coffee shop in town to ten years of a domestic partnership. Simon cried, teardrops trickling down his tan blonde fuzzy face, and he held the picture even closer to his chest. The pain hurt him; it was worse than anything else that had happened to him before. Hands clutched closely to his chest, he ducked beneath a paw-paw tree and sent the chickens and goats running in all directions as he dashed into the food forest to hide, eat, cry, and experience catharsis; such strong emotions had to be purged. Birds flew back into their nests and squirrels scampered up the trees as the sound of his feet breaking branches and leaves echoed throughout Simon’s food forest.

Hope I have attracted some interest! I am kinda also telling you this because there is no point in writing a novel and enjoying the write if that joy is not going to be shared. The novel will be a conglomeration of many things. Something erotic, something neurotic, something ironic, something profound, "something for everyone on comedy tonight!". Love that movie!

Here are the general sub-themes I will be covering or try to integrate into my novel:
-permaculture (won't be the main theme but it will be a recurring sub-theme)
-ethics gone astray
-human sexuality
-death and the afterlife
-religion
-government
-the nature of humanity
-gender
-relationships
-and a whole lot of other stuff (that is kinda what sub themes are, little things one can add to move the plot along and motivate their characters)

My style of writing is on the fly, so do not ask me about my characters' motives yet. I will figure that out as I go.

In Media Res is a good technique. NaNoWrMo is one of those things I see the value of, but can never bring myself to participate in. I have a lot of reasons for that and I posted on them at the end of last month on my blog. I have two major things that keep me from participating. First is the horribly low word count. The only novel type that is that low most of the time is a middle grade novel. 3000 to 4000 words a day would be a far more logical goal for most genre fiction (consider going above the standard word count for NaNoWrMo). The other part is that I always balk at the idea of needing a special month to do novels. I know it helps a lot of people get that extra push to get motivated, but for me it has the opposite effect. Maybe it is that my only income comes from writing or maybe it is just my contrary nature. Still, I am glad you are finding it motivating to get going forward. I am sure you could get a few alpha readers on here once you get it done!

Sheri Tepper hits on permaculture themes but may be a bit um, uncomfortably feminist for some people's taste. "The Gate to Women's Country" is in a post-collapse situation somewhere in the (implied) Pacific Northwest. The town the protagonist lives in was started by a survivalist and has adapted customs to deal with 'post convulsion' life, where many things (spices, some animals that didn't survive- cattle and horses are explicitly named) and others are very carefully limited or ignored due to not wanting to damage their environment further. They use hydropower for their limited electrical needs, heat with wood, and have 'sun pits' for growing veggies and extending the growing season. I've heard her fiction described as 'ecofeminist sci fi' and I don't think that's a bad description.

I think it's a really interesting book but well, it's pretty militantly feminist and I know some people have trouble getting past that. (It's also an interesting contrast to read it paired with "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood, because there's some interesting stuff to contrast in there thematically about what each author is saying about human nature. HT doesn't have the prepper stuff, but it is arguably post collapse, or at least A collapse- we don't see much of what has gone wrong in the world beyond US except the little bit Offred learns about canada from people, etc.)

Most of the other prepper-ish themes I can think of honestly fall into dystopia lines, and there's quite a few of those in the trendy YA Dystopia category right now. (Look for the line "so and so's parents hid her away since X[collapse event], but now...." in the back cover blurb )

L. E. Modesett's "Parafaith War" is not set on earth, but has some permaculture themes in the way that the protagonist's culture (I think they call themselves the "Eco" something) has orgnized itself after moving into space and a series of wars over creating multi-planet governments. (Consensus on this book is that some of it was written specifically to twit Orson Scott Card's Mormon Sci Fi series that I can't remember the name of, which has some similar themes.)

Yeah, I think the main appeal to NaNoWriMo, what I like about it so far, is that it is a safe(er) place for newbies to try a hand at writing. I have never written anything longer than a college-level essay for AP-classes or a one-page poem. So, for me, 50,000 words will be a challenge, and the imagination thing kinda gets me, too. Usually, in class, I get straight to the point, and I am similarly worried I'll do something like: "Here is the villain. Here is the good guy! The villain wins because life is not fair, and another character seeks vigilante justice because of that. Everybody dies. The end." Yeah, I do not really expect the short novel to be good, but maybe decent enough to read and not feel one's time was completely wasted.

C. Hunter wrote:Sheri Tepper hits on permaculture themes but may be a bit um, uncomfortably feminist for some people's taste. "The Gate to Women's Country" is in a post-collapse situation somewhere in the (implied) Pacific Northwest. The town the protagonist lives in was started by a survivalist and has adapted customs to deal with 'post convulsion' life, where many things (spices, some animals that didn't survive- cattle and horses are explicitly named) and others are very carefully limited or ignored due to not wanting to damage their environment further. They use hydropower for their limited electrical needs, heat with wood, and have 'sun pits' for growing veggies and extending the growing season. I've heard her fiction described as 'ecofeminist sci fi' and I don't think that's a bad description.

This sound FABULOUS.. And considering I am one of those pesky feminists ( ) I don't believe it would be uncomfortable for me at all! Thanks for sharing.

Cassie Langstraat wrote:

C. Hunter wrote:Sheri Tepper hits on permaculture themes but may be a bit um, uncomfortably feminist for some people's taste. "The Gate to Women's Country" is in a post-collapse situation somewhere in the (implied) Pacific Northwest. The town the protagonist lives in was started by a survivalist and has adapted customs to deal with 'post convulsion' life, where many things (spices, some animals that didn't survive- cattle and horses are explicitly named) and others are very carefully limited or ignored due to not wanting to damage their environment further. They use hydropower for their limited electrical needs, heat with wood, and have 'sun pits' for growing veggies and extending the growing season. I've heard her fiction described as 'ecofeminist sci fi' and I don't think that's a bad description.

This sound FABULOUS.. And considering I am one of those pesky feminists ( ) I don't believe it would be uncomfortable for me at all! Thanks for sharing.

I really like Tepper's stuff, but well... yeah. It's definitely not to everyone's taste, and I've kind of found a correlation in that the more someone likes Heinlein (other than the juvenalia) the less they will like Tepper. If you like those themes, you might also really enjoy "Singer from the Sea", one of her later books, which incorporates some Maori stuff. And even as much as I like her protagonists and find her settings really interesting, her stories are kind of annoyingly inflexible in that Bad People's flaws are split RIGHT down gender lines and I find it annoying. (There are good people of both genders, but the bad people of each gender will always be bad in a specific way...) I could go on about these for a while, I really just think they're fun.


Sharon Shinn has some 'designed ecology' elements in her Alleluia Files series, but it's more of the general scifi-y sort with a colony planet having a designed ecology and economy (although the situation's more complicated than that). Karan Traviss touches on it in "City of Pearl", I think, too? And honestly, they're silly books, but if anything by Piers Anthony gets to count, I think Anne McCaffery's Pern books deserve a mention too- the dragons are, after all, an attempt to fill an ecological niche.

C. Hunter wrote: And even as much as I like her protagonists and find her settings really interesting, her stories are kind of annoyingly inflexible in that Bad People's flaws are split RIGHT down gender lines and I find it annoying. (There are good people of both genders, but the bad people of each gender will always be bad in a specific way...)

Oooh, I think this would really bother me. I am not a fan of making generalizations about either gender..

It's less obvious if you only read one or two of her books. And I'm not sure it actually reflects how she means to portray GENDER as much as she's not terribly diverse in her character types.

I figured out the best way for me to share the first draft of my first NaNoWriMo write. I have uploaded/published the first unedited draft of IdMPR: The Heart of Osiris on the Internet Archive. I wanted to share it without losing credit for what I wrote, however poorly written it may be. I can definitely say I have a deeper appreciation for writers now because 50k words was a whole lot more difficult than I expected, and it definitely taxed my imagination a lot, maybe even expanded it some.

Just a forewarning:
-I have not edited it yet, and there will be a lot of grammar mistakes.
-About the most inappropriate it gets is describing the bouncers at a gerontophilia type bar.
-Romantic irony is employed a lot; expectations will be crushed.
-The permaculture things mainly come into focus when describing Simon's food forest. It does not take a huge focus in the novel.
-The novel is weird, just plain weird. I will leave it at that.

I hope someone enjoys reading it!

Dave Burton wrote:I figured out the best way for me to share the first draft of my first NaNoWriMo write. I have uploaded/published the first unedited draft of IdMPR: The Heart of Osiris on the Internet Archive. I wanted to share it without losing credit for what I wrote, however poorly written it may be. I can definitely say I have a deeper appreciation for writers now because 50k words was a whole lot more difficult than I expected, and it definitely taxed my imagination a lot, maybe even expanded it some.

Just a forewarning:
-I have not edited it yet, and there will be a lot of grammar mistakes.
-About the most inappropriate it gets is describing the bouncers at a gerontophilia type bar.
-Romantic irony is employed a lot; expectations will be crushed.
-The permaculture things mainly come into focus when describing Simon's food forest. It does not take a huge focus in the novel.
-The novel is weird, just plain weird. I will leave it at that.

I hope someone enjoys reading it!

I will make a point to read this as time allows. I suspect most people have no idea how hard it can be to consistently write or how draining it can be sometimes even when you love what you are writing. Glad you got through NaNoWriMo in good shape. Since you are posting it without a password or anything, I assume you don't intend to publish it outside of creative commons licensing?

That is correct; I do not intend to change the licensing. It will stay published as a Creative Commons ShareAlike work for NonCommercial use. I ended the novel kind of abruptly, so I might pick back up where I left off for next year, if I do NaNoWriMo again. I might get around to editing it when Winter Break arrives. Thank you D. Logan; I look forward to your comments. I know it is a first draft, so of course it is going to be an absolute mess. The characters took a while to become rounder; they are pretty flat in the beginning. The beginning and ending were my favorite parts to write. I knew how I wanted to begin and end, just finding the way to get there was messy. You will probably be able to tell when the universe becomes more developed because in the beginning there are a lot of anachronisms, but they occur less frequently later on.

I cannot say any of the characters are really good, though, I did try to make them human I also tried to make the society they live reasonable with a few rights revoked due to the still suffering low human population from after the Great War. There are government agencies for everything, but that is partially balanced out by the Global Citizen Science Action Network and their influence in the society.

Interesting to run across this thread! I'm in the later stages of finishing the first volume of a planned trilogy that is a young adult dystopia novel with strong permaculture themes. It is the very opposite of heavy-handed, but will expose readers to some ideas from permaculture, and might include a 'Learn more' type section at the back of the book.

The basic idea of the novel is a heightened version of what we have today, and its young woman's journey from total engagement with business as usual in this world, into the world of former terrorist who is now a permaculturist (in a world where even owning veggie seeds is illegal.) There's much more to it than that, including an alternative fuel (used by the elite to control the masses) that I think is truly unique and interesting, and raises all kinds of ethical issues - with various characters holding different opinions on these issues.

I've been working on the plot for about three years, wrote a draft last fall, and am now revising the manuscript. Come January, I expect to have a draft that's solid enough to share, so will poke my head back in this thread and see if anyone is game to be a 'beta reader'.

By the way, I agree on the Kim Stanley Robinson suggestion above. Incredibly well-read and well-informed, excellent writer. I like Margaret Atwood's series, but don't always agree with some of the underlying critiques of our current trajectory as a species (though agree with plenty as well). It's interesting that she makes God's Gardeners (who are basically permaculturists - though more the urban version of that species than the rural one) cult-like, and self-destructive due to personality conflicts and differences of opinion (self-righteousness gets in there too) (ouch - hits a little close to home for permaculture, sometimes!), but I wanted at least some layer of optimism to be present! (Which I suppose is why I'm writing my own book.)

Could you imagine a story in the Firefly/Serenity universe (I could - named my dog River) where one of the outer worlds was permaculture based? The fight against the more modern worlds and their "ideals" would make a good clash. I'm sure the Central Government would just love GMOs, etc.

Using imaginary outer space planets make great canvases to explore many permaculture themes, including community, society, and governance. What would a planet based on permaculture look like? How would the people be different? Would some want to go back to a more technological time? For some reason I have that Talking Heads song "(Nothing But) Flowers" stuck in my head now ("This used to be a Pizza Hut. Now it's just covered with daisies")

Also, I would love to do some beta testing/reading if any one's interested.

Returning to discuss Frank Herbert's DUNE, which I am rereading now for the first time since I "got into" permaculture.

There is NO WAY that Mollison and Holmgren hadn't read Herbert by the mid 70s when they developed the initial permaculture ideas and curriculum. Dune was published in 1965, and I see its marks all over the PDM.

Here is a selection of quotes from a chapter in Book 2 of Dune, near the midpoint of the book. I think Herbert does an incredible job of very briefly explaining a permaculture-style approach to ecology- focusing on the role of humans in guiding planetary ecosystemic processes. Some spoilers in the below text:

"I am Liet-Kynes," he said, addressing himself to the empty horizon, and his voice was a hoarse caricature of the strength it had known. "I am His Imperial Majesty's Planetologist," he whispered, "planetary ecologist for Arrakis. I am steward of this land."
...
A thought spread across his mind—clear, distinct: The real wealth of a planet is in its landscape, how we take part in that basic source of civilization—agriculture.
...
"The highest function of ecology is understanding consequences."
...
"The more life there is within a system, the more niches there are for life," his father said. And the voice came now from his left, from behind him.
...
"Life improves the capacity of the environment to sustain life," his father said. "Life makes needed nutrients more readily available. It binds more energy into the system through the tremendous chemical interplay from organism to organism."
...
"We are generalists," his father said. "You can't draw neat lines around planet-wide problems. Planetology is a cut-and-fit science."

What's he trying to tell me? Kynes wondered. Is there some consequence I failed to see?
...
"To the working planetologist, his most important tool is human beings," his father said. "You must cultivate ecological, literacy among the people.
...
"The presence of moisture in the air helps prevent too-rapid evaporation from living bodies," his father said.

Why does he keep repeating the obvious? Kynes wondered.

He tried to think of moisture in the air—grass covering this dune… open water somewhere beneath him, a long qanat flowing with water open to the sky except in text illustrations. Open water… irrigation water… it took five thousand cubic meters of water to irrigate one hectare of land per growing season, he remembered.

"Our first goal on Arrakis," his father said, "is grassland provinces. We will start with these mutated poverty grasses. When we have moisture locked in grasslands, we'll move on to start upland forests, then a few open bodies of water—small at first—and situated along lines of prevailing winds with windtrap moisture precipitators spaced in the lines to recapture what the wind steals. We must create a true sirocco—a moist wind—but we will never get away from the necessity for windtraps."
...
"Movement across the landscape is a necessity for animal life," his father said. "Nomad peoples follow the same necessity. Lines of movement adjust to physical needs for water, food, minerals. We must control this movement now, align it for our purposes."
...
"We must do a thing on Arrakis never before attempted for an entire planet," his father said. "We must use man as a constructive ecological force—inserting adapted terraform life: a plant here, an animal there, a man in that place—to transform the water cycle, to build a new kind of landscape."
...
"It was lines of movement that gave us the first clue to the relationship between worms and spice," his father said.
...
"Men and their works have been a disease on the surface of their planets before now," his father said. "Nature tends to compensate for diseases, to remove or encapsulate them, to incorporate them into the system in her own way."
...
"The historical system of mutual pillage and extortion stops here on Arrakis," his father said. "You cannot go on forever stealing what you need without regard to those who come after. The physical qualities of a planet are written into its economic and political record. We have the record in front of us and our course is obvious."
...
"Our timetable, will achieve the stature of a natural phenomenon," his father said. "A planet's life is a vast, tightly interwoven fabric. Vegetation and animal changes will be determined at first by the raw physical forces we manipulate. As they establish themselves, though, our changes will become controlling influences in their own right—and we will have to deal with them, too. Keep in mind, though, that we need control only three per cent of the energy surface—only three per cent—to tip the entire structure over into our self-sustaining system."

Kevin EarthSoul wrote:

nathan luedtke wrote:Kim Stanley Robinson is a very popular SF writer who knows A LOT about permaculture and ecology (and buddhism, and history, and psychology...) and weaves those themes in to his books. A few of the books mention permaculture by name. He lives in Davis, CA.

His Mars Trilogy (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars) deals with the hundreds-year-long process of terraforming Mars.
The Science in the Capitol trilogy deals with rapid climate change and worldwide responses to the climate crises.
The Three Californias trilogy portrays 3 different possible futures for California- one of which is a "permaculture utopia" wherein the primary plot concerns a zoning/land use conflict.
He is something of a "technological solutionist" but I think he's the best permaculture-themed writer working in fiction.

I was going to suggest Robinson.

I also think Robert Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" depicts a society that is well aware of their limitations of natural resources, and where everything is recycled.

It does, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" has to do with a group of revolutionary's that are trying to stop wheat shipments to earth and by extension the removal of precious water from Luna.