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David Livingston
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I was thinking the other day about Permy themed Science Fiction and fantacy stories and wondered if anyone had any idea of such books they could share .
For instance for me the classic is Frank Herberts "Dune " where a whole people are secretly working to change the climate of a desert planet . A great book I am not so keen on the many prequells and follow ups .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(novel)

David
 
Sam Barber
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I haven't read this book yet but it looks like a permie themed sci fi about the future.
http://www.amazon.com/Entropia-Life-Beyond-Industrial-Civilisation-ebook/dp/B00DCNI8HE/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1391544105&sr=1-7&keywords=permaculture+fiction
 
Sam Barber
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What about a robinson crusoe style book where a permaculturist lands on a desert island or distant planet and decides that the only way he can survive is by using permaculture techniques to make himself safe from wild animals, feed himself, raise some animals and turn his island into a food producing paradise! Where he thrives and survives.
 
Jennifer Wadsworth
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Interesting thread!

A friend of mine, Katharina Gerlach, is (mostly) a fantasy writer. Before she became a writer, she was a landscaper and forester in Germany. She is interested in doing a book promo for permies.com.

The books she has available with an "environmental theme" are:

--Amadi-Trilogy (set in an Arabian Nights world)

--Paralan's Children (set on an ice-planet)


Both feature adaption to extreme climates.

So the big question - would this book promo be something of interest here?? Give this post a "thumbs up" or reply to this thread if you'd be interested!
 
Jessica Gorton
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Two beautiful books that would fit would be "The Fifth Sacred Thing" by Starhawk: http://www.amazon.com/The-Fifth-Sacred-Thing-Starhawk/dp/0553373803 (Starhawk is an earth-centered activist and a leading voice in the neo-Pagan movement, as well as someone who walks the permie walk).

and Marge Piercy's "Woman on the Edge of Time" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_on_the_Edge_of_Time which imagines a very permie future (though I'm not on board with the babies grown in incubators!).
 
Oliver Casson-Gary
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Brian Jacques "Redwall" series is probably one of my all time favorites. All of the characters are personified animals, Warrior King Badgers, legendary mouse warriors, pirate rat, stoats and weasels. One of the key focuses is the community and how we can move forward together through anything. At times a bit hokey, and not the most challenging read, but high in medieval action and drama and many books in the series. I have read several more than once.
 
Sam Barber
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Yeah the red wall books were awesome I read all of them at least twice! It would have been really interesting to see them include permaculture stuff or to see a book written like it for children that includes alot of permaculture stuff!
 
leila hamaya
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while not totally permie inspired, i think the films of miyazaki speak to the same issues, underlying almost all his films.
especially nausicca of the valley of the wind, and my neighbor totoro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVRInek075g



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZ5JalHjhs
 
D. Logan
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You have to love Miyazaki. There were a lot of issues tackled in the anime of Princess Mononoke as well. As for books, I seem to recall one taken from the viewpoint of a prepper, but most of the books that come close to a permie theme are focused more on an earth-centric spirituality as the central theme rather than permaculture itself. I have often thought of writing a book with permaculture central to the themes, but have yet to come up with an idea in that vein that I felt was worthy of the weighty topic. I think if the central story isn't compelling enough to stand on its own, then it just comes across as preachy and doesn't do justice.
 
Sam Barber
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what one was from the view point of a prepper?
 
D. Logan
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I've never read it myself, but heard about it on a radio program. I think it was called Prepper's Road March. Part of a trilogy. The person interviewing mentioned that it included a number of subtle things that most writers wouldn't think about like all of the high heeled shoes littering the outskirts of town where people tossed them aside rather than to continue painfully walking on them as they trekked elsewhere.
 
Landon Sunrich
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Sam Barber wrote:Yeah the red wall books were awesome !


I quite honestly believe if we could somehow explain to people that permaculture would make it possible for the average person to harvest prepare all of the dishes describe in the various Red Wall feasts out of their own back yard and give them the time at home to cook them we could convert the better part of an entire generation worth of people virtually overnight.


As for my self - I'd probably read permaculture fiction especially if it had graphic detailed description of manual labor techniques (rawr!), polyculture phenology (hubba hubba!) and conniving intrusive mushroom-alien overlords bent on bending the universe to their own will (just me?) - until then I guess I'll just have to keep trying to make the fantasy a reality. Oh well.
 
Landon Sunrich
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D. Logan wrote:I have often thought of writing a book with permaculture central to the themes, but have yet to come up with an idea in that vein that I felt was worthy of the weighty topic. I think if the central story isn't compelling enough to stand on its own, then it just comes across as preachy and doesn't do justice.


What about a Druid who wanders the world summing forth earth power with guilded seed balls. Shattering a bleak concrete landscape of some long lost cultures and healing fetid oily tar bogs filled with all manor of strange creatures (like Phrexians, or evil mushrooms!) and meeting strange nomads crossing windswept deserts making oasis (oasi?) as they go. A battle to bring nature back from the brink in a world overtaken

With the electrical wires taking on lives of their own, creeping over the earth like tendrils and networking with crazy transdimentional super silicon beings come to destroy the carbon world of mortals ! Crazy tripped out stuff like that. What a world - what a character!

Damn it. I am such a nerd.

Edited to accentuate the positive
 
D. Logan
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Landon Sunrich wrote:
D. Logan wrote:I have often thought of writing a book with permaculture central to the themes, but have yet to come up with an idea in that vein that I felt was worthy of the weighty topic. I think if the central story isn't compelling enough to stand on its own, then it just comes across as preachy and doesn't do justice.


What about a Druid who wanders the world summing forth earth power with guilded seed balls. Shattering a bleak concrete landscape of some long lost cultures and healing fetid oily tar bogs filled with all manor of strange creatures (like Phrexians, or evil mushrooms!) and meeting strange nomads crossing windswept deserts making oasis (oasi?) as they go. A battle to bring nature back from the brink in a world overtaken

With the electrical wires taking on lives of their own, creeping over the earth like tendrils and networking with crazy transdimentional super silicon beings come to destroy the carbon world of mortals ! Crazy tripped out stuff like that. What a world - what a character!

Damn it. I am such a nerd.


That could make the start of a rather interesting story, though I suspect the permaculture nature would be lost on the majority of readers. It runs the risk of being too heavy-handed as a rebuttal of the negative. I think I would like to do something where the story focus' on the positive that could be done without dwelling on the mistakes. The less I remind the reader of societies poor choices and instead immerse them in the joys of permaculture, the more likely I am to draw them fully into a desire to live that lifestyle. Just my own thinking though.

On another note, I just remembered a book by Piers Anthony called "But What of Earth". It exists in two versions. The first is almost impossible to find and is heavily edited in a manner that was morally questionable. The second version is edited as the author intended and also includes a lot of notes about the horrible editing job done to butcher the original text. The basic premise of the story is that much of the population of earth is leaving due to matter transmission technology (originating in another series he was doing at the time) and it focus' on the people left behind and how they are realizing the value of the earth that they had all been in such a rush to destroy. I don't remember it being permaculture really, but it was very earth-friendly. Might be a good read for anyone who can find a copy. I haven't read it in over a decade though, so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details.
 
Landon Sunrich
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That sounds cool. I enjoy piers anthony.

I don't think you need to get lost in the negative at all! The Druid might not know what going on - I mean that could be the backdrop for the whole series. I think descriptions of him assaying the land and carefully mixing his own soil from separate pouches and picking the right seeds to use together while murmering weather prays could take up pages of fairly informative text. The magic and fantasy comes as marginal lands (the majority of readers know and can identify with marginalized landscapes) become wonderful paradises and the earth magic accelerates the seed growth. But I sure aint I writing it - so maybe it is a bad Idea after all.

Edit: oh and Jennifer - I thumbed that up - looks cool!
 
D. Logan
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Landon Sunrich wrote:That sounds cool. I enjoy piers anthony.

I don't think you need to get lost in the negative at all! The Druid might not know what going on - I mean that could be the backdrop for the whole series. I think descriptions of him assaying the land and carefully mixing his own soil form separate pouches and picking the right seeds to use together while murmering weather prays could take up pages of fairly informative text. But I sure aint I writing it - so maybe it is a bad Idea after all.

Edit: oh and Jennifer - I thumbed that up - looks cool!


I don't think it is a bad idea, I am just not sure I would manage what I intended with that idea. Another writer might well do it proper justice and accomplish exactly what I am thinking. Each writer is their own unique thing if they write in their own voice.
 
Sam Barber
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I quite honestly believe if we could somehow explain to people that permaculture would make it possible for the average person to harvest prepare all of the dishes describe in the various Red Wall feasts out of their own back yard and give them the time at home to cook them we could convert the better part of an entire generation worth of people virtually overnight.


As for my self - I'd probably read permaculture fiction especially if it had graphic detailed description of manual labor techniques (rawr!), polyculture phenology (hubba hubba!) and conniving intrusive mushroom-alien overlords bent on bending the universe to their own will (just me?) - until then I guess I'll just have to keep trying to make the fantasy a reality. Oh well.


Yes I agree that would be awesome! Those feasts were awesomely delicious it was so cool.
 
D. Logan
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Sam Barber wrote:
I quite honestly believe if we could somehow explain to people that permaculture would make it possible for the average person to harvest prepare all of the dishes describe in the various Red Wall feasts out of their own back yard and give them the time at home to cook them we could convert the better part of an entire generation worth of people virtually overnight.


As for my self - I'd probably read permaculture fiction especially if it had graphic detailed description of manual labor techniques (rawr!), polyculture phenology (hubba hubba!) and conniving intrusive mushroom-alien overlords bent on bending the universe to their own will (just me?) - until then I guess I'll just have to keep trying to make the fantasy a reality. Oh well.


Yes I agree that would be awesome! Those feasts were awesomely delicious it was so cool.


I wonder if anyone has ever tried to contact the author and see if he might be interested in endorsing/co-authoring a Red Wall cookbook. Something to consider.
 
leila hamaya
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D. Logan wrote:You have to love Miyazaki. There were a lot of issues tackled in the anime of Princess Mononoke as well.


ooo how could i have forgotten princess monoke?
thats probably the one he made thats closest to these issues



nobody can do an anime forest like miyazaki
 
Sam Barber
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the druid comment makes me think about the book "A Canticle for Lebowitz" which is about a time long after our society has degraded and been destroyed by itself there is an order of monks whose task is to record and and restore literature from our society and guarding the books from our society against the destruction of time. What if there was a novel about a band of reclusive monks who live in a post apocalyptic wasteland for centuries after our society is destroyed and they have tasked themselves with recording and safeguarding the techniques of permaculture. They have passed the techniques down from generation to generation and have built themselves a oasis within the waste land that is plentiful enough to feed all 300 or so of their order and they have waited for the right time to be able to start reseeding the continent with there techniques. All the while defending their oasis monastery from roving bands of wasteland dwellers who must scavenge to survive and only want to do evil. Then as the books or series progress the chapters would split up into the tales of the monks who have traveled outside of the oasis monastery and started reseeding the wasteland using the techniques taught in permaculture.
 
Sam Barber
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D. Logan wrote:
Sam Barber wrote:
I quite honestly believe if we could somehow explain to people that permaculture would make it possible for the average person to harvest prepare all of the dishes describe in the various Red Wall feasts out of their own back yard and give them the time at home to cook them we could convert the better part of an entire generation worth of people virtually overnight.


As for my self - I'd probably read permaculture fiction especially if it had graphic detailed description of manual labor techniques (rawr!), polyculture phenology (hubba hubba!) and conniving intrusive mushroom-alien overlords bent on bending the universe to their own will (just me?) - until then I guess I'll just have to keep trying to make the fantasy a reality. Oh well.


Yes I agree that would be awesome! Those feasts were awesomely delicious it was so cool.


I wonder if anyone has ever tried to contact the author and see if he might be interested in endorsing/co-authoring a Red Wall cookbook. Something to consider.

Yeah I think that he already wrote one and he is dead.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Redwall-Cookbook-Brian-Jacques/dp/0399237917
 
Landon Sunrich
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Sam Barber wrote:... makes me think about the book "A Canticle for Lebowitz" ...


Yeah, I've defiantly found my people
 
D. Logan
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leila hamaya - I especially loved that he showed every side in that movie some degree of respect. Neither of the two primary sides was portrayed as all good or all bad. Each had their motives and methods and each felt they were doing something for the greater good. While we the viewers could draw from it a moral ideal, we could also sympathize with those we considered to be wrongheaded.

Sam Barber - Too good an idea not to have happened I guess. Didn't realize he had died though. Having not read the cookbook (obviously), I wonder if it included anything you couldn't get at a supermarket. Probably not I suppose.
 
Landon Sunrich
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D. Logan wrote:

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to contact the author and see if he might be interested in endorsing/co-authoring a Red Wall cookbook. Something to consider.
I'm pretty sure he's dead. I have a Red Wall 'friend and foe' poster from a friend of mine who told me it reminded her of me, it came with an illustrated canon adjacent kids story. I don't think theirs a comic book though
 
leila hamaya
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D. Logan wrote:leila hamaya - I especially loved that he showed every side in that movie some degree of respect. Neither of the two primary sides was portrayed as all good or all bad. Each had their motives and methods and each felt they were doing something for the greater good. While we the viewers could draw from it a moral ideal, we could also sympathize with those we considered to be wrongheaded.


yes agreed!
totally, this is one of the things that he does best throughout all of his movies, with a lot of moral ambiguity, and showing how the main "bad guys" have some kind of story or reason that makes them they way they are....
and somewhere in the middle of the movies the main "bad guy" usually flips sides and starts helping the "good guys", then its only with that working together in site of their differences that they manage to save the day, or whatever. the "bad guys" become likable, and without their help they wouldnt make it.....

truly -one of the best all time filmmakers ever.

also love his strong female characters, the kick ass women warriors, and the gentle lovely soft feminine characters he develops as well....not one or the other, but his lead female characters usually embody both. its obvious he has a deep appreciation for women....
 
Sam Barber
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Does anyone have anymore Ideas for a permaculture themed fiction book?
 
David Livingston
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I have thought about a permie/shamen/naturalist Policeman called Alain Greenman who tackles Crime in the North Pennines oneday I might right the book

David
 
Jennifer Wadsworth
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Wow - it's like we need a permie fiction writer's group!
 
Sam Barber
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I think that a graphic novel would be an awesome way to have a fiction story told about Permaculture. That way people could see all the diffrent thinks that are being talked about.
 
Sam Barber
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One of the things that we have been joking about at the Base Camp is Aliens and Permaculture. So what if we landed on another planet similer to earth and had to survive by employing variuos permaculture techniques.
 
William Bronson
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legacy_of_Heorot

First of a trio where the survival of a colony hinges on their understanding the ecology they find themselves in, and thier place in it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia

Heavy handed and (perhaps unintentionally) racist, it is still probably the most Permie speculative fiction i have ever read.

 
nathan luedtke
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Kim Stanley Robinson is a very popular SF writer who knows A LOT about permaculture and ecology (and buddhism, and history, and psychology...) and weaves those themes in to his books. A few of the books mention permaculture by name. He lives in Davis, CA.

His Mars Trilogy (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars) deals with the hundreds-year-long process of terraforming Mars.
The Science in the Capitol trilogy deals with rapid climate change and worldwide responses to the climate crises.
The Three Californias trilogy portrays 3 different possible futures for California- one of which is a "permaculture utopia" wherein the primary plot concerns a zoning/land use conflict.
He is something of a "technological solutionist" but I think he's the best permaculture-themed writer working in fiction.
 
Jocelyn Campbell
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You know, this sounds like loads of ideas for a permies online book club! Like the Designer's Manual read along, only fiction.
 
Sam Barber
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I like the Idea of an emergency permaculture book. Not necessarily fiction but it would be interesting. It would describe ways to use permaculture techniques to help you grow your own food when supply lines aren't functioning. It could illustrate diffrent techniques to turn your standered backyard into a permaculture garden quickly and simply without alot of machinery or electricity.
 
Sam Barber
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I think it would be great if they made a sequal to Waterworld that shows the people on the island cultivating their paradise and more of how the mariner grows food for himself on his boat.
 
Kevin EarthSoul
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nathan luedtke wrote:Kim Stanley Robinson is a very popular SF writer who knows A LOT about permaculture and ecology (and buddhism, and history, and psychology...) and weaves those themes in to his books. A few of the books mention permaculture by name. He lives in Davis, CA.

His Mars Trilogy (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars) deals with the hundreds-year-long process of terraforming Mars.
The Science in the Capitol trilogy deals with rapid climate change and worldwide responses to the climate crises.
The Three Californias trilogy portrays 3 different possible futures for California- one of which is a "permaculture utopia" wherein the primary plot concerns a zoning/land use conflict.
He is something of a "technological solutionist" but I think he's the best permaculture-themed writer working in fiction.


I was going to suggest Robinson.

I also think Robert Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" depicts a society that is well aware of their limitations of natural resources, and where everything is recycled.
 
Alder Burns
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Quite a few of the works by Ursula K. LeGuin describe cultures of varying levels of technology living in balance with their homeworlds. I think her master work, and the most relevant, is "Always Coming Home" which describes a subsistence culture several thousand years in the future. While her other works contain some potent political, social, and gender commentary, this one has the most ecological awareness and content.
As an aside, since Herbert's "Dune" was mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I recall reading somewhere that Herbert was actually a neighbor of paul stamets, and that some of the ideas in "Dune" may have originated from experiences with psychoactive mushrooms.....
 
D. Logan
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I just thought of another one in the anime category. Arjuna is free on Hulu right now and is a bit heavy-handed in the message. The whole thing centers around saving the earth from the spirit realm beings who have been distorted through modern methods and toxins. It advocates an approach very much the same as Fukuoka has and repeatedly slams the modern methods in a way that turned off a lot of people to the show, but I always found it entertaining despite the heavy-hand.
 
Cassie Langstraat
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I don't know if this is specifically permaculture fiction but the Margaret Atwood Maddadam trilogy could possibly fit into this category. It is sort of an eco-apocalyptic dystopia/utopia series. There is also a group of people called God's gardeners who are basically cultish environmentally friendly people who make an eco-friendly lifestyle into a religion. It is SUPER interesting. Atwood resists calling it science fiction though, and instead calls it "speculative fiction" because all of the stuff she writes about that seems to be absurd futuristic events, are somewhat already in the works. Has anyone else read this trilogy?
 
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Sam Barber wrote:One of the things that we have been joking about at the Base Camp is Aliens and Permaculture. So what if we landed on another planet similer to earth and had to survive by employing variuos permaculture techniques.


Real-life terraforming.

You would have to do it with some crazy laser earthmover or something, because normal tools would be too boring. Maybe a Genesis machine (now I am showing I am an OLD nerd).

 
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