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Most efficient meat to raise for dog food?

 
pollinator
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jim loggin wrote:I just thought. we have a wild bore issues in my area. so if I was to start collecting road kill. I'd make sure the meat is good. plus I'd start shooting the wild board. not only for the dogs. but for myself as well.



Wild pig might be OK, but pork in general is much too fatty to feed to dogs as a primary source of meat.  If you do this trim off exterior fat before feeding to your dog, and depending on the intramuscular fat content you may still need to limit quantities.  Too much fat will give a dog diarrhea in the short term, and longer term can cause pancreatitis which can be fatal.  Longer term doesn't mean years.  Weeks can do it.  Assuming the fat content was good, I'd probably give a dog wild pork in combination with appropriate amounts of organ meat, and if you have access to a lot of chicken backs or other other chicken bones include those for the necessary bone content once you run out of pig bones the dog can effectively crunch.  Most dogs can't handle the major weight bearing bones like the leg bones, not can they handle the skulls of most pigs.  That said, giving the dog a split skull so they can access the brain and the eyeballs can be a great treat or meal (depending on the size of the skull and dog) that will also keep them entertained for quite a long time picking off all the tasty morsels.
 
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jim loggin wrote:I just thought. we have a wild bore issues in my area. so if I was to start collecting road kill. I'd make sure the meat is good. plus I'd start shooting the wild board. not only for the dogs. but for myself as well.



From what I've heard, you'd be doing a public service shooting wild boar to feed your dogs. Killing 2 pigs with one stone, as it were.
 
M Wilcox
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Andrew Mayflower wrote:
Wild pig might be OK, but pork in general is much too fatty to feed to dogs as a primary source of meat.  If you do this trim off exterior fat before feeding to your dog, and depending on the intramuscular fat content you may still need to limit quantities.  Too much fat will give a dog diarrhea in the short term, and longer term can cause pancreatitis which can be fatal.  Longer term doesn't mean years.  Weeks can do it.  Assuming the fat content was good, I'd probably give a dog wild pork in combination with appropriate amounts of organ meat, and if you have access to a lot of chicken backs or other other chicken bones include those for the necessary bone content once you run out of pig bones the dog can effectively crunch.  Most dogs can't handle the major weight bearing bones like the leg bones, not can they handle the skulls of most pigs.  That said, giving the dog a split skull so they can access the brain and the eyeballs can be a great treat or meal (depending on the size of the skull and dog) that will also keep them entertained for quite a long time picking off all the tasty morsels.



Oh, I would think that wild boar would be much leaner than domestic pork, since they are always running around and having to hunt for food. But I don't know that much about them. They certainly look pretty lean from what I've seen.
 
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exactly. wild pork is much leaner. but it has a wild taste to it. and from what I hear. that taste can't be gotten rid of. of covered up completely.
 
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Hey dog owners,

I wanted to give everyone a heads up about Dilated Cardiomyopathy. It's shaken up the dog world in the last few years with an explosion in cases, with many cases tied to diet. Unfortunately, grain-free/homemade/raw diets may sometimes the culprit. I'm a dog trainer and I had a client almost lose her dog to DCM, she had been on homemade food for years and the client switched her to the grungy old veterinarian recommended corn byproduct crap - and after about a year, she is 100% clear for DCM.

I found this really discouraging, because that crap in the bag we all know the ingredients are NOT the level of quality we want to feed to our dogs. But DCM will sure as hell kill them, and I'd rather buy Science Diet or whatever than do homemade without the guidance of a veterinary nutritionist. You can absolutely still do homemade, but be aware of what the signs of DCM are and get your dogs tested regularly to make sure the feeding protocol is working for them.

Here's a decent article giving 3 veterinarians opinions on how to feed based on the so far inconclusive investigation into DCM and diet: https://nutrition.tripawds.com/2018/08/06/grain-free-kibble-and-canine-heart-disease/

If you are looking for a commercial food that has animal studies backing up its safety, look for the line “Animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiate that (name of product) provides complete and balanced nutrition”
They're not necessarily a large sample size on those studies, but at least they're proven that 6 months of the food as the sole diet keeps the dogs in good shape with good bloodwork.

Be well y'all
 
M Wilcox
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jim loggin wrote:exactly. wild pork is much leaner. but it has a wild taste to it. and from what I hear. that taste can't be gotten rid of. of covered up completely.



Would dogs care about the wild taste of the boar? Or are you talking about people eating them? I know that in some countries they are hunted for meat but maybe those folks are used to the taste.
I kind of wondered if capturing wild boar and feeding them a different diet for a few months would change the flavor of the meat significantly. Although it's probably near impossible to keep them confined. Like I said, I don't know much about them except that they are a menace.
 
jim loggin
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the bores have a wild taste. and that's because of their way of life and what they eat.
 
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Having eaten wild boar - and thoroughly enjoyed it, and fed it raw to my dogs (a little Cavalier King Charles and a huge Irish Wolfhound), who devoured it, I can assure you that the strong taste is not likely going to be a problem, for dogs. That link about the DA is from a dog food company. Dog food companies have a vested interest in getting people to stop feeding their dogs anything but what they sell. They have SUCH a vested interest, they heavily subsidize veterinary schools, and gain loyalty from the veterinarians-to-be, by giving them free pet food, as long as they are in the school. Nutrition is barely taught, if at all, in said schools, most giving it less than a week - and since most college courses are not a daily class, that typically means just a couple of days. I'm not saying vets are bad people, or not smart. I'm saying that there are companies out there, understandably trying to please their shareholders.

That vet, quoted in the link? He told people to stop reading the labels. Excuse me? Nope. Not me. I feed raw. I even took a certification course in canine and feline nutrition, to make sure I'd do it right. We went into all the why's and wherefores of all of it. I will not buy dog or cat food. It's an investment in their health, that we each must find, for ourselves, but I'd rather put a bit of thought and effort into the food and nutrition that goes into the health of the critters in my care now, than have the vet bills, later.

So, we raise goats, chickens, & ducks, and we share our animal products, fruits and veggies with our dogs. My thought is to raise, grow & hunt what I'm going to eat, and share it with them - especially since they love and need the parts I don't or can't. That makes good health sense for all of us, and since they're eating things like tendon, spleen, trachea, bones, fur, cartilage and such, in addition to the meat, much less of the animals we harvest gets wasted, making more sense for our bank account. I do add in a purchased vitamin/ mineral supplement, just in case I miss something.
 
master pollinator
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Mice?

Black soldier fly larvae?

Maybe a bit radical for the mainstream, but not necessarily around here.
 
pollinator
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Andrew Mayflower wrote:

jim loggin wrote:I just thought. we have a wild bore issues in my area. so if I was to start collecting road kill. I'd make sure the meat is good. plus I'd start shooting the wild board. not only for the dogs. but for myself as well.



Wild pig might be OK, but pork in general is much too fatty to feed to dogs as a primary source of meat.  If you do this trim off exterior fat before feeding to your dog, and depending on the intramuscular fat content you may still need to limit quantities.  Too much fat will give a dog diarrhea in the short term, and longer term can cause pancreatitis which can be fatal.  Longer term doesn't mean years.  Weeks can do it.  Assuming the fat content was good, I'd probably give a dog wild pork in combination with appropriate amounts of organ meat, and if you have access to a lot of chicken backs or other other chicken bones include those for the necessary bone content once you run out of pig bones the dog can effectively crunch.  Most dogs can't handle the major weight bearing bones like the leg bones, not can they handle the skulls of most pigs.  That said, giving the dog a split skull so they can access the brain and the eyeballs can be a great treat or meal (depending on the size of the skull and dog) that will also keep them entertained for quite a long time picking off all the tasty morsels.



Important to consider. A friends mobile butcher left her some fat after slaughtering her hogs... hung it on the fence. Her very large dog nearly died of pancreatitis, thousands in vet bills...
 
Carla Burke
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D Nikolls wrote:Important to consider. A friends mobile butcher left her some fat after slaughtering her hogs... hung it on the fence. Her very large dog nearly died of pancreatitis, thousands in vet bills...



Absolutely!! Dogs and cats best levels of nutrition come from a diet of 10% or less, of fat. More than that, and all kinds of problems come up, including malnutrition. My favorite thing to do with the fat, especially of ruminants, like beef, deer, elk, Bison, and even the non-ruminant swine, is to render it into tallow and lard. As such, that fat is great for cooking, conditioning leather, wood, and metal, as well as making soap, lotions, and moisturizers. I know. I'm geeking out, here. But, I really do DO this stuff, lol.
 
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A word about feeding wild prey, especially deer and especially road kill. In the northwest corner of Montana the deer are suffering from a neurological wasting disease which, some data suggest may be transmittable to people. It seems a similar risk might exist for other animals, like dogs, that eat diseased  prey. Animals that end up road kill often have a neurological or physical deficit that makes them vulnerable to being killed by traffic. Just "food"for thought.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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This is slightly OT but possibly relevant:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/what-on-earth-pet-food-carbon-footprint-1.5918813

And FWIW a shameless (but interesting) press release from a generally shameless multinational:
https://www.nestle.com/media/news/purina-launches-pet-food-plant-insect-proteins

 
M Wilcox
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Timely post for me. I recently bought dried BSF larvae to get my chooks some protein for the winter. The cats keep trying to get into the bag! I should sprinkle some on their food and see how they respond.
I intend to start a BSF setup in the spring so maybe I'll experiment with cat food.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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M Wilcox wrote:I recently bought dried BSF larvae to get my chooks some protein for the winter.


So they are available commercially? How much do they cost?
 
M Wilcox
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Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

M Wilcox wrote:I recently bought dried BSF larvae to get my chooks some protein for the winter.


So they are available commercially? How much do they cost?



I got them from a company called grubbly farms (check the interwebz). It was about $13 for a pound of dried ones which I think represents about 10 pounds of live ones, so they come out to a little over a dollar per pound live weight and less than a buck an ounce dried. I thought it was an amazing deal and my chooks go crazy for them (hey, I should get a discount for my promo skills!). I expect the bag to last me for months cuz a whole handful only weighs a fraction of an ounce.

A little goes a long way--you're only supposed to feed them a handful every few days for the whole (average-sized) flock or a sprinkling daily. They're loaded with calcium which is good because my girls won't touch the oyster shell I try to give them. I have the pickiest flock ever--they were literally starving themselves rather than eat the commercial feeds (every brand plus local, non-GMO mash). And they almost never get kitchen scraps so they aren't spoiled. They're just gourmets I guess.
Anyway, I sprinkle a few BSF on top of their feed every morning and they attack them.
 
Carla Burke
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I give my 11 chickens & 2 ducks a cup or two, scattered with some scratch, during cold weather, or if I can't let my girls out for a couple days, to forage, for themselves. We get them from Amazon, and I can't get my personal info off my link, to share it, but I get Grubsnack 10 lbs Non-GMO Dried Black Soldier Fly Larvae, for $53. 1 box lasts a good, long time. I'd say, the way we use them... we probably go through about 2boxes per year, with the 13 birds. You can also raise them, yourself. Eventually, I might go that route, in the name of self sufficiency. Right now, I simply don't have the time or inclination.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Has anybody tried feeding BSF larvae to their dogs?
 
M Wilcox
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Carla Burke wrote: I get Grubsnack 10 lbs Non-GMO Dried Black Soldier Fly Larvae, for $53. 1 box lasts a good, long time. I'd say, the way we itself them... we probably go through about 2boxes per year, with the 13 birds. You can also raise them, yourself. Eventually, I might go that route, in the name of self sufficiency. Right now, I simply don't have the time or inclination.



Thanks, Carla, this is good info. I do want to try raising my own--I'm very excited about it actually! But if that doesn't work out, I'll try the Grubsnack ones next time.
 
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