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the solutions are simple  RSS feed

 
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https://permies.com/t/57734/develope-Permaculture-proposal-Northeast-Ohio

Thanks Roberto, i enjoyed that Ted Talk and will definitely refer to it later.

Above is the thread if anyone wants to brainstorm.   It could be more general permaculture spreading ideas as well.  
 
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Another content idea:
We can create more landing pages that aim at:
- farmer that research agro chemicals. educated them about the chemicals, what they are used for and how to avoid it in the first place by using permaculture.
- farmer that are searching for ideas to diversify their business
- make landing pages that look like they are selling chemicals to begin with, than gradually shift to permaculture.
- target regional and statewide groups representing farmers. nudge them to educate about permaculture.
 
gardener
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in case Sandra Bullock is busy..
(and she's over 50)

https://permies.com/t/40855/a/41052/FullSizeRender.jpg
 
Pascal Paoli
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Who can set up Twitter Bots to automatically retweet permaculture principles triggered by certain hashtags?
 
pollinator
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Hi Paul. I translated your answers to that question (of reddit) in Dutch and shared that, so I hope some people here in the Netherlands can read it. Such simple & effective solutions!!!
Only the RMH is not possible for me.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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R Ranson wrote:Paul!  You've done so much good.  You DO a lot more good getting the word out than any celebrity I've seen.  

You made this forum.  You work damn hard to keep this place friendly and full of people who actually want to do stuff and make the world a better place.  

You inspire people.  You make them interested in change.  They make a change, their friends see the change, they make change... it's a chain change reaction.  

I can't imagine going the celebrity path is going to have a greater effect.  The change that is necessary goes against the status quo, it threatens them.  Once someone has enough celebrity status, they realise that their success is dependent on maintaining things as they are.  It's that whole thing in the book 1984, where the purpose of The Party is to maintain power, not to improve existence for any individual.  The people who currently have power read Orwell and they take their lessons from him.  How could these celebrity create change in the world? ...


My opinion too!
 
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Paul,
Please do not throw in the figurative towel. Please do not stop producing informative podcasts/videos/blogs on Permaculture ways. It is from you that I am finding my Permaculture way in this world. You have inspired me to Hugelkultur. I plan to build a rocket-heater assisted greenhouse this year. You are critical in my plans. So forget about saving the world. Just do what you do for me. Kidding, I am not important outside of my own mind and family, but I sure would appreciate you not quitting. Please?
 
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Paul,

You have done an enormous amount, more than nearly anyone.  Merely by keeping this site open, you continue to do more.  Recently a line from the Torah has been circulating among my friends as a mantra:
“It is not incumbent upon you to complete the work, but neither are you at liberty to desist from it."
None of us can save the world alone, and we should not beat ourselves up about not saving the world.  And certainly none of us should imagine that it is our personal responsibility to do it all.  But neither should we stop trying - the work itself is noble, whatever its outcome may be.

Thomas Merton's "Letter to a young activist" says much the same thing:
"Do not depend on the hope of results.  When you are doing the sort of work you have taken on, essentially an apostolic work, you may have to face the fact that your work will be apparently worthless and achieve no result at all, if not perhaps results opposite to what you expect.  As you get used to this idea, you start more and more to concentrate not on the results but on the value, the truth of the work itself."
 
Steve Taylor
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R Ranson wrote:I can't imagine going the celebrity path is going to have a greater effect.  The change that is necessary goes against the status quo, it threatens them.  Once someone has enough celebrity status, they realise that their success is dependent on maintaining things as they are.  It's that whole thing in the book 1984, where the purpose of The Party is to maintain power, not to improve existence for any individual.  The people who currently have power read Orwell and they take their lessons from him.  How could these celebrity create change in the world?]



I agree that a celebrity path will be a diluted form of what Paul is doing at Wheaton Labs and Ant Village.  The potential for a greater impact through a celebrity such as LeBron, Ellen, or whoever is a real possibility.  Getting the masses to level up from level 0 to 1 or 1 to 2 on the eco scale would be a large change.  I suspect that is along the lines of Paul's sentiment.

I agree that maintaining power when your on top is very real, however some folks transcend those barriers.  I believe LeBron James is one of those people.  The work he has already done speaks for itself.  He has giving so much to the community.  His bike program encouraged exercise with the reward of a bike for kids.  Now he set up the IPromise campaign to give those kids a path to Higher Education through a partnership with the University of Akron.  He donates to the Haven of Rest a homeless shelter in downtown Akron.  Those are just the things i know about.

When LeBron was playing for the Miami Heat he donated 20K to the Haven of Rest of their Thanksgiving Dinner.  The media response was a radio show comparing what he made with the average income and equating his 20K donation to a regular person giving a dollar to the shelter.  20K is 20K no matter where it comes from or how much that person makes.  The man was hated by many in the area for leaving and is still resented by many.  When he won the Championship last year his instagram tag read #putsomerespectnexttomyname.  He is often disrespected and underappreciated in the media.  Not so much now as his career before.  

LeBron is a leader on and off the court.  Not many Professional Athletes carry themselves with the class and leadership he does.  The impact he has on the local community is very positive and he is a role model to me because of it.  
 
pollinator
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Steve Taylor wrote:The man was hated by many in the area for leaving and is still resented by many.  When he won the Championship last year his instagram tag read #putsomerespectnexttomyname.  He is often disrespected and underappreciated in the media.  Not so much now as his career before




I don't see how a person who is hated and resented will make a better spokesperson for permaculture than just some guy.  Lots of permaculture people are hated just because permaculture, - will someone who is hated and resented already for other reasons somehow be more effective?

Also his endorsements are not in concert with permaculture, in my opinion.  
 
Steve Taylor
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It's the same hate Paul gets for being great.  Resentment channeled into hating someone they don't even know.  

LeBron is beloved by many more than he is hated by.  But no good deed goes unpunished.
 
Tyler Ludens
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At least choose a celebrity whose endorsements are in harmony with permaculture.  Otherwise, the celebrity will look like a hypocrite and permaculture will look like a joke.  Or even more like a joke.

 
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Hi Paul. I translated your answers to that question (of reddit) in Dutch and shared that, so I hope some people here in the Netherlands can read it. Such simple & effective solutions!!!
Only the RMH is not possible for me.


Not possible... why? In temporary housing right now?
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Kyrt Ryder wrote:

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Hi Paul. I translated your answers to that question (of reddit) in Dutch and shared that, so I hope some people here in the Netherlands can read it. Such simple & effective solutions!!!
Only the RMH is not possible for me.


Not possible... why? In temporary housing right now?


I live in a rented apartment Kyrt (a ground floor apartment with a garden).
 
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Michael Cox wrote: For example I can spend £10,000 landscaping my few acres and turning it into a permaculture paradise. However, with that same £10,000 I can support a community in Africa that wants to terrace it's water shed and build a sand dam - guaranteeing reliable safe water supply year round for 2000+ people.


with that same £10,000 you could teach those same 2000 people everything about Permaculture and empower them to change their Paradigm forever. Dams, ponds, swales, it's all in there............Just a thought

 
Steve Taylor
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Tyler Ludens wrote:


I don't see how a person who is hated and resented will make a better spokesperson for permaculture than just some guy.  Lots of permaculture people are hated just because permaculture, - will someone who is hated and resented already for other reasons somehow be more effective?

Also his endorsements are not in concert with permaculture, in my opinion.  



Tyler I agree with you that the endorsements will have some conflicts.  I'm not selling LeBron as spokesperson for permaculture.   I'm proposing a plan for further empowerment and additional nourishment for our community.   A goal that is shared by LeBron and he has a whole foundation dedicated to the cause already.  

I'm proposing integrating permaculture techniques into his foundation.   He dosn't need to talk about permaculture for it to work.  He could promote gardening program for kids, family, food for food shelters.  It's the actions of the community learning and working together for the health of the people.  

It's LeBron's influence that can make nutrition and taking care of your body cool.  It's adding a gardening program that uses permaculture techniques that accomplishes the goal.

After it works people will talk about permaculture.   People will learn to garden the permies way from the start, and it will just be the way it's done. The norm.
 
Tyler Ludens
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Thank you for clarifying.

 
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hmm, this thread puts some pieces together for me actually. i think its just a wave of things more or less, this pattern, or a feeling i have in life right now. a lot of people are kind of at this stage. "but, i've put so much effort into this vastly significant thing for so long, why isn't it everywhere by now". it is, and it isn't... just doesn't take the shape we want.

if one is to look at history, or mankind in a long term arc... this current behaviour has been represented now for thousands or years. vastly significant shifts in consciousness take Millenia. look at the transitions from hunter-gatherer to how we are now. hundred thousand year arc. And there is so much disinformation and distraction out there right now...

But its ok Paul, you've done a lot of really great stuff. you don't have to be a preacher for saving the world. doing what you are doing day to day is the most valuable thing. For those it has real value to, will find it. you know, we can only do what we can do, and as long as we do that we can't really be upset about it. Results are a nice thing, but, ultimately, our ends should justify our means. even if an 'end' is "saving the world"
 
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Paul,
I'm a newbie here, but having jumped around to all the different parts of your site, I see that you have done a TREMENDOUS amount of quality work in so many different ways. As long as this work you do is satisfying to you - personally - then carry on, brother.

If you want to get a better handle on the Why behind the seeming lack of progress you are feeling, perhaps some of these understandings will help make sense of it:

1) A primary triad of fundamental facts about human beings (all mammalian life, really) that I must constantly remind myself of, are these: Humans are ALWAYS trying to A) Seek pleasure; B) Avoid pain; C) Do A & B while exerting the LEAST amount of energy as possible.
So these background motivations are always at work undermining any thinking or actions that we'd consider 'progress.' Of course, these insights are nothing new; but even so I have to remind myself of them often. Whether I want to achieve something, or I want to help push others to achieve something, I am always working against this default setting that is built into everyone.

2) All humans gravitate to certain 'levels,' and each of these fairly distinct levels have definite characteristics to them - different values, different goals in life, different means to achieve them. You and I both gravitate to our specific level, and we each operate our lives from the characteristics, flavors and idiosyncracies of the level we are at. We easily connect with people who also hang out at our level; we kinda understand those who are either one level above or one level below us. People 2 or more levels different than us are pretty much invisible and incomprehensible to us. Often we avoid them or we may even attack them cuz they seem so odd and at cross purposes. If you were to do a public speaking gig to a random audience of 1000 people, you'd be speaking from your own level. So anyone on your same level definitely connects beautifullly with you. Anyone living more and more distant from your level, you won't connect with them well, or at all, no matter what you do. 1000 Permies (mostly Green level) and you'd be the Man Of The Hour, and the gathering would be a great party. If you were talking to 1000 Red level people, hardly anyone would understand you or care what you are talking about. Some would even be antagonistic, wanting to get rid of you, maybe permanently, because you are perceived as a threat to them (and their worldview) in some way.
There is a lot of science and research behind these things, and I find them extremely helpful to quickly get a sense of who I am talking to and who I am trying to persuade. You can quickly get a good grasp of the concept here:  

  SD Mini-Course

and here are several graphics that show how it works:

  SD01
  SD02
  SD03
  SD04

Or if you prefer, here's a short video that drills the basics:

SD Intro concepts
 
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I am not sold on the whole "telecommuting" thing. I would love to see how data storage and telecommuting infrastructure works out as far as energy demands go. Plus the manufacturing of digital technology accounts for a lot as well.
 
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Paul, if you can't see the glorious, spectacular amount of wealth you have created here, just with this site, then I think you're looking through the distorting blur of a very tough year, and not seeing straight.  Try just breathing for awhile .... let go ... have a little faith, even in people.  (Again, I could recommend 'A Paradise Built in Hell'... also, you might read a bio of Buckminster Fuller... a fellow prophet ;)  And, as a wise commenter here advised ... try the scary thing... not thinking for 30 seconds!  Stick a tiny toe outside of the comfort/captive zone... I don't like it either, at first, but what's life without a little adventure :)

Also, I'm finding that to have expectations, and assumptions, is asking for disappointment (see Nassim Taleb's 'The Black Swan, alluded to by another commenter.).  Doing what is in front of us right now (possibly a trip to France to visit David? ;), usually leads to something unexpected coming through the (now open) door, very shortly ;)   Have you noticed that rarely, if ever, does anything eagerly anticipated live up to our 'vision', but often the 'best' comes out of left field?  I've seen this in my very long life time and again.. and also, that 'demanding' I get what I 'paid' for means I miss the 'better' thing right in front of me.   Breath, friend, and let go ;)  There is sooooooo much happening now (and coming down the pike) that you cannot see at the moment!   Relax and trust ... none of us knows much of anything, actually.  (Now I must go and enrich my soils with wood, and water/nutrient holding biochar and bentonite, to prepare for a third hot dry climate-change summer here in the misty PNW ... and it will probably be a totally different summer!)
 
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Roberto pokachinni said:
"In the year 2000 I had never heard of a rocket stove let alone a rocket mass heater, and now I want more than one!  Most of the world had not heard of RMH or rocket stoves even 5 years ago, and now look at the youtube videos.  I couldn't find jack squat for examples of hugulkultur a few years ago, and search it now!  These things are happening, and taking off.  But they are seedlings still.  Give them time, Paul."

This is so true!
If the shit does not hit the fan in 10 years... I mean it can take ten more years, but so what? The battle at Hastings was year 1066. It was a very important battle, but was the year so important? If it would have been year 1076 instead...

OK that is a little bit long stretch, but you know that I waited more than 10 years to get some land. You can imagine how that felt for an eager beaver like me?
Long story short:
- As You can see I come from Finland. When I got my pension after being 12 years mostly unemployed, I moved to Greece. First year went quite well with my garden. Second year - the spring went, not so well, so I had to skip the season and I did not have enough money, yadda, yadda.
Three months ago a woman (she is married - nothing romantic to see here) said to me: "You can live in this house for free, free electricity, water and internet. Just do something/anything in the garden." It was Christmas time for me.

The house is in the Bulgarian mountains and a cowshed 100 meter from the garden. The pile of cow- and pig-manure is HUGE. It is a mountain of manure. And the farmers, when I told them that I buy all the straw-bales that they can't use... they said: "Just pay for the transport, if it is far away." (They are very keen to see what 'this Finn' will do with all the straw.
And Paul, all these years I have been reading your stuff and within some months I can order all the stuff I have been dreaming of. Yes, it took me fifty years to understand that the only place worth investing is between one's ears. So, I lost some forty years running after money and then waited some 10 years and now I am 67 years (young). I have a lot to catch up, but I will walk the walk You have walked, even if these hills here is quite steep.

Henry
 
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(jocelyn gave me her cold, which reduced my productivity for a few days ...)

I got an email and it said something that really grooved with me.  It said that I am ...

exposing the mass of information we ignore



So, there's the rub.  

I find it frustrating that I point out that an incandescent light bulb gives off a high quality light AND an efficient form of heat .... and that this combination is especially useful in places where winter gets cold, which is a LOT of the united states.  

I didn't invent a damn thing.  I am pointing out stuff that everybody already knows.  And then I go so far as to write a huge article and even make a video.  It has been six years and I have reached about 150,000 people.  You would think that would be enough so that six years later other people would "invent" things to compliment this.  

So when somebody on reddit asks "how do I do my part for the environment from my apartment"  then the #1 answer (hell, I would settle for #4) would be to learn the value of radiant heat and the incandescent light bulb.  It will save you gobs of money and cut your carbon footprint more than parking five cars.  

I would think that with this freakishly obvious tidbit of information, 70% of the US population would jump all over this just to save money.   And this will then have accomplished more than Elon Musk.

I think that is a big part of my message:  it isn't about me.  it isn't about one person.   It is about all the people reading this thread.  Each of you has the power to do exactly what I did.  Some of you might be able to do more.  Make an article.  Make a video.   Experiment and share your experiment.  Post to all the social media.   Post to all the forums.   Write for magazines and newspapers.  Guest blogs.  Blog comments.  social media comments ...  

This thread has, at this time, been viewed more than 5000 times.  What did those 5000 people do?  What will happen if 5000 people spend one hour on one topic?  Will it finally result in actual, large scale change?



 
paul wheaton
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Andrea Mondine wrote:If each one of us can find the time or the way to help spread the word about permaculture, the Permies.com site or about products that benefit the site, we can not only ‘lighten the load’ but exponentially increase the potential for positive outcome.




YES!  THIS!  EXACTLY!



 
paul wheaton
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Ron Helwig wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:

Marco Banks wrote:I think a popular movie (a romantic comedy starting Sandra Bullock and some hunky guy opposite her) would go a whole lot farther than another preachy docu-advocacy film).  



I think this is true.   A few years ago I contacted my favorite author and tried a lot of different things to convince him of a story.   I then paid a ghost writer to write it - that didn't work.  I then found another ghost writer, and that didn't go anywhere .... that project is still sitting in the wings gathering dust.



Maybe make it a TV sitcom. You could call it "Green Acre" (not Acres). Reboots are all the rage these days, right?




Ron,

The point I am trying to make is that I am not going to put any effort into making a sitcom.   I need you and all the others reading this to try things.  

I am worried that all the suggestions over all the years have been read as "well, I did my part, I made a whole lot of suggestions to paul on how to live his life.  I think my best suggestion was that I told him to save the world by printing more t-shirts.  So, now that I have made my suggestions, I can go away and come back in a few months and paul will have saved the world because he implemented my stuff.  I sure hope he remembers to thank me in his speech accepting the big prize for awesome."

So I wish to make it clear:  don't direct suggestions to me.  Direct the suggestion to yourself.  Create a thread at permies and see if you can make things actually happen.   Without me.
 
paul wheaton
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Tyler Ludens wrote:I advise against trying to make a TV show or feature film.  This is a recipe for heartbreak even if you are friends with people in show biz.  (I work in show biz)  



Tyler, I hope you can create a thread or two about things that would move stuff forward.  
 
paul wheaton
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Marla Kacey wrote:Why not a utube series?  

An unhappy upwardly mobile young man visits a 'crazy' friend in Missoula MT (maybe his name is Paul Wheaton or maybe his friend introduces him to Paul) and starts to see the light (and a rocket stove).  He meets an unhappy, but dream filled waitress and starts to dream a bit too.

Sandra Bullock would be wonderful!  But maybe too expensive.  Are there any thespians in the permies community?  Destiny?  Jesse?  Anyone?

Just dreamin' here.




Marla,

The point of this thread is to be the driving force.  To be the person that does the legwork.   To make this stuff happen.  




 
paul wheaton
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Roberto pokachinni wrote:
While I agree with so much of Paul's sentiments, and the suggestions that others are making to help him along on this stumbling block, and I think that we (meaning me too) should make efforts to get the message out





YES!  THIS IS THE MESSAGE!





 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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paul wheaton wrote: ... So I wish to make it clear:  don't direct suggestions to me.  Direct the suggestion to yourself.  Create a thread at permies and see if you can make things actually happen.   Without me.


Paul, of course we can make things happen without you. The local permaculture community garden here is started up by people who did not know anything about you or the Permies-forum (until I joined and told them).
Only I hope you will stay with us
 
paul wheaton
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Roberto pokachinni wrote: Give them time, Paul.  



No.

The fact that they have not gained traction is a sign of some other problem.  This is a symptom.

Other things are going viral.  The point of this thread is that I think it is possible that the source of the problem is me.   As long as I work to get this information out there, people think that "getting it out there" is now taken care of.  Then people send lots of "helpful suggestions" for me to do even more work - those people then wash their hands of the matter thinking that they have done their part.  

A way of thinking about it is that I have been enabling complacency.  

By now there should be a thousand videos on youtube talking about how to save thousands of dollars on heat with incandescent light bulbs.  "Americans are so stupid.  Here in russia, we heat smart.  In america they ban the smart thing."

So I am proclaiming that in the name of trying to move stuff forward, I am going to stop being the enabler.   Everybody reading this has to do the work I have been doing.  It isn't hard - it's just work.

 
paul wheaton
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David Livingston wrote:You need a brake , full rest now for a while .



David,

This is not the point of this thread.  

What you are suggesting is that I take a little time off and then I will be reseted and can get back to work on spreading the word for all this stuff.  

The point of this thread is that people are digesting the information I am providing and then sit back and wait to see how far I will take the information.  But that's fucked up.  I want the thousands of people to take this information and they each take it to thousands of people.  They don't have to promote me along the way - they can take full credit for all of this.  And when somebody on reddit says "how can I do my part to help the environment" then thousands of our peeps will upvote the smart stuff, downvote the stupid stuff and add comment points for the smart stuff.  

Every time somebody on the internet says "LED light is good for the environment" I want there to be a hundred responses that say "not if you are in a cold climate!" - and not a single one of those comments are from me.  



 
paul wheaton
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R Ranson wrote:
You often say you want to infect millions of brains with permaculture.  To get them from level zero to level one on the Wheaton Eco Scale.  

And yet, your message is often level five or higher.  Rocket Mass Heaters, the thing about the light bulbs, this isn't something a level zero person can understand.  



Excellent point R.

Suppose I am a level 7 person talking about level 5 stuff that is appealing to level 3 people.  

What we really need are level 5 people talking about 3 stuff to level 1 people.   By definition, there are 100 times more level 5 people.   But wait, there are 1000 level 7 people.   There are 100,000 level 5 people.   And level 3 people can also talk about 3 stuff to level 1 people - and there are 10 million level 3 people ....

So the function of this thread is an attempt to tell 10 million people to not wait for me to carry the message - the time has come for them to carry the message.
 
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Devin Lavign wrote:What is your take on Alan's complicated vs complex and how we need holistic decision making to figure out solutions to complex problems? Do you think this holistic concept could take off and spread into our world culture fast enough to make a difference?



The point of this thread is that instead of directing the conversation my way, direct the conversation to thousands of people that have not heard it.  


 
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Paul,

You do a remarkable amount of good and your empire of world domination is embraced by a whole lot!  Those of us that visit this site and many others are trying to get the word out.  I know that there is some movement when you start to see land grant schools starting to teach agroecology, green building design, and incorporating permaculture principles into landscape design courses.  It may be the trickle before the flood.  Western culture is so focused on the shiny objects.  Slowly we will change the culture.  I'll continue to do my part.

Best
 
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Devin Lavign wrote:Oh and Paul, your post is sounding very Derrick Jensen. We all hit walls in our struggle to make the world better.



This thread is not about my walls.  This thread is about getting the folks reading this to move these messages forward WITHOUT me.  



But I keep trying, keep telling more people about permaculture, keep spreading permaculture ideas without even calling it that, and generally just try to make the world better.



THAT is what this thread is about.
 
For my next feat, I will require a volunteer from the audience! Perhaps this tiny ad?
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