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paul wheaton
master steward
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Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
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I don't think I have ever written this down.

First, I have a powerful need to get permaculture into more brains. So I have put out this huge amount of free content. And I have put in a lot of work to connect that content with 35 million brains.

I have found that the kickstarter path is making it so that I can reach people that I cannot reach with the free content.

On top of that, I have things to prove. Proving stuff is turning out to be costly. So, the kickstarters serve two functions.

Here are some of the things I want:

show that a wofati stays warm all winter without any heat
show that a wofati shell can be built for one tenth the cost of a conventional home
show that a wofati shell can be built in one half the time of a conventional home
show that a wofati house can be built for half the cost of a conventional house when you pay for labor

show that a wofati freezer will keep stuff frozen all year using just thermal inertia

grow a lemon tree outdoors in montana

create a creek where there is no creek

(top priority) bring somebody with cancer here and their cancer goes away

20 people living under one roof without stabbing each other

optimize rocket mass heater technology so that the shippable core is cheap and public buy in is far stronger

prove and optimize tefa

honey production with bee reverence and bee huts

highest food production per acre for montana without irrigation or fertilizer

highest ag income per acre for montana without irrigation or fertilizer

food system pumping out food year after year and all I have to do is harvest

- - - -

I think that this isn't even half the list.

We now have the land. And it is clear that the thing we need is a critical mass of people that want to be part of all this. And people need food and a bunk. Focus has been on shelter and once the ground thaws we will start focusing on food production. And then focus has to go back to shelter.

With a critical mass of people, ideas can feed ideas which feed ideas; difficult tasks become easier; overall velocity is improved; work is more of a joy and less of a burden.

I see a lot of organizations get grants for millions of dollars per year for ten years to accomplish what has been accomplished with the empire so far. And fail. We have accomplished what they could not using baling wire, duct tape, rubber bands and sheer will. And now we go even bigger. We now have a recipe to fuel these projects: the kickstarters.

The kickstarters fund projects. Projects lead to more kickstarters which funds even more projects.

The "goal" price for a kickstarter is set to be the "barely break even" price. So when we meet the minimum goal, nothing extra goes to projects.

Bottom line: the more we bring in from the kickstarters, the more velocity we have with our projects.
Staff note (paul wheaton):

If you like what I have said here, giving this post a thumbs up will do a lot to help our overall forward velocity.

Staff note (Jocelyn Campbell):

Paul obtained over 200 acres in mid-2013 where a lot of the things he wishes to prove are taking root. For an overview, see the summary of all things wheaton labs thread.

 
Josh Ritchey
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Paul,

You're doing remarkable work, just don't be too humble about it. Tesla was one of the world's greatest inventore, his failure was not tooting his own horn enough and not connecting with enough people. You're doing great. You and Adam Kokesh are the most respected people today, becuase you're actually doing things the status quo doesn't want people to know is possible. Keep up the good fight.
 
Robert Overturf
Posts: 37
Location: Des Moines, Iowa (Zone 5)
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This list of reasoning, though not written on paper previously, has certainly been discussed throughout the span of podcasts and is the primary reason that I have donated to the kickstarters. I want to see examples of these things proven and documented, because I want to see future generations take these ideas, run with them, and start building a better world. I want to do the same for my family and I don't know for sure that I can. To see it all play out as I work toward getting a piece of land myself would sure help

You, sir, are a pioneer in a new frontier. You have an army at your back. A lot of people want to see you succeed.
 
John Elliott
pollinator
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Josh Ritchey wrote:Paul,

You're doing remarkable work, just don't be too humble about it. Tesla was one of the world's greatest inventore, his failure was not tooting his own horn enough and not connecting with enough people.


You know how the saying goes, "build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door will need to see it marketed 24/7, on billboards, cable and pay-per-view before they get on board and buy it".

And now you also have kickstarter.
 
Dennis Barrow
Posts: 26
Location: Columbia Falls, MT
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I have only been a member here for a few weeks, but already I feel like, well, like a am becoming part of a family. It is amazing what you are doing.

As for the lemon tree, growing one outdoors here in Montana, keep at it as lemons go really good in my hefeweisen beer!!

Maybe an avacado tree??

I did see a place up here in the flathead valley that had palm trees growing. Of course they were in big tubs on carts and it looked like they would pull them into a big barn when the weather got to chilly for them.

But Paul, keep up the great work! I have several projects I want to tackle and they are all because of you and your permies.com !!!
 
Kathleen Minniti
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Paul, what about curing depression? Would having a person suffering from severe clinical depression live on the land and get cured be of interest? I keep thinking that a significant lifestyle change might be a factor in this type of cure, but have trouble figuring out how to make it happen. (By the way, it's scary as hell posting this.)
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 22172
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
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Kathleen Minniti wrote:Paul, what about curing depression? Would having a person suffering from severe clinical depression live on the land and get cured be of interest? I keep thinking that a significant lifestyle change might be a factor in this type of cure, but have trouble figuring out how to make it happen. (By the way, it's scary as hell posting this.)


See if we have a thread on that topic. If we don't have a thread on that topic, please start one. If you have not received an excellent answer within 48 hours, please post to the tinkering forum and announce "I hereby invole the 48 hour rule!"
 
Richard Kutscher
Posts: 51
Location: Sun seeker - on the road
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I enjoy backing your kickstarters, it's great to be a small part of the action.

Out of the list you made, and am not sure what your future plans are, really hope videos are made of everything you're doing, from soup to nuts and everything in between. So when thinking about making a podcast of "something X", think, "I should whip out the video camera now".

I, personally, would like to see all of those things on KickStarter's. Everything you will be accomplishing should be on there, to some degree, as more brains will be infected by the littlest of things. The smaller tasks could be included in the larger project as sort of a "bonus".

EX 1: Wofati construction KickStarter could include some bits about the bees and lemon trees.
EX 2: Returning the creek could be a feature presentation with strong highlights on food production, bringing back indigenous trees, and maybe helping people with cancer.

One thing might want to stay away from, unless want focus of the FEDS/FDA, is the word cure. Not that I care but some people really do.

Look forward to seeing the adaptation of this list as you move forward!
 
paul wheaton
master steward
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Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
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I got up this morning and, as usual, started to peruse emails while I wait for the coffee to brew. And about two minutes in my thought was "no good deed goes unpunished."

I am very glad that later I came to this thread and found support. Thanks VERY much!



So, here is some of the criticism from this morning:

Donate here, buy this, fund that... It gets tiring after a while as this is not what I thought I was signing up for. I've read a post where you used to make over 100k a year which is a lot more than some of us make in several years so yeah... the reason I don't support what you do is that I have not gotten any real quality newsletters to be honest. When I say quality, I mean good content, stuff that will teach me something.


Yes, I gave up a lucrative career because I felt that this permaculture work was just that important.

Yes, I don't give away as much free stuff lately. Of course, the TED talk was free. Wait - I actually had to pay to get up there and back. And pay for a bunch of stuff there. And it took a good three days out of my life. I didn't get paid anything.

Just looking at the last 30 days: the mason bee video, paying for innovation, supporting geoff lawton's free stuff, my tiny contributions to some of the allan savory stuff, i was on four radio shows, the porta-wood-shed, supporting a new permaculture author, paying thousands of dollars so that people with poor internet can get the videos and podcasts, on two podcasts, giving away four new podcasts for free, talking to lots of instructors for lots of topics to bring them more business and somehow find more ways to get what is in their brains into more brains, my contribution to the survival summit, one magazine interview, heaps of rocket mass heater work that i am paying thousands for ... this is probably about half of it. And this is just for the last 30 days.

And, of course, I guess my past work doesn't count. The only thing that counts is "what have you done for me lately."


One of your previous issues talked about the desert and it was supposed to be great content... maybe to you, but I live in the north of Canada and it was -44 c last Monday. Besides the point that I don't support the idea of living in the desert, it just does not apply nor will it ever apply to me so I cannot relate to the content your provide, it's just too much off topic for where my interests lie.


I guess it is true: you must be THIS smart to ride this ride. This is a technique called "observation". If you can grow a garden in a desert without irrigation, then surely you can grow a garden in a place with ample water without irrigation.


I somewhat resent the fact you are trying to do so much other stuff on your land with $ from kickstarters. I feel the kick starter is supposed to be to provide the stated product, not buy you a new tractor.


I suppose I should borrow money from a bank, get the tractor to generate a return, and then pay back the bank.

I guess my thinking is that a lot of people want me to generate 20 video projects. And they want them right now. So I should take the proceeds from one kickstarter and use that to set up and video the next potential kickstarter.


There are a few reasons I haven't backed this kickstarter yet. First, it's expensive. I backed a kickstarter just a while ago for a video but it only cost $25 to get the streaming video.


I am charging $20 per streaming video.

Seems that they just want to get the word out about permaculture orchards, not get all kinds of money off the proceeds.


Again, apparently all of my free work doesn't count.

This is the same reason I haven't bought your rocket mass heater DVD set, it's so expensive (I wasn't here for that kickstarter).


Ernie, Erica, Bart and I have been talking about prices of the rmh dvd set. We refuse to drop the price for one year after the people that supported the kickstarter got their DVDs. This is to respect the good people that supported that kickstarter. So around august 1 we think we might drop the price to something like $80. And maybe we will drop it lower still a year after that.

Bart and I have been talking about future possible kickstarters. Depending on a lot of factors, we might be able to do the kickstarters for less. But it does depend on a lot of factors.

- - - - -

Overall, these negative comments have been humbling. I thought the kickstarter was being directed at an audience much larger than "my people". But maybe I should consider that it will be more likely to be just that much smaller group of "my people".

- - - - -

As for the stuff about being a money grubber. It was about a year and a half ago that took energy away from the empire and directed to toward cash flow. I needed to quit fucking around and BUY SOME FUCKING LAND and get on with my projects. Growth of the empire stopped, but I did get money. So I now have the land.

And then it became clear that when I work on projects away from the computer, the money flow stops. And then all of the projects become MUCH slower. I think about cancer, war, pollution, starvation and think I NEED TO MAXIMIZE THE FORWARD VELOCITY OF THESE PROJECTS! And that takes money. Heaps of it.

Therefore, I am not just any money grubber. I am dedicated to being extra-extra-extra-grubby. MORE kickstarters. MORE advertisers. MORE products. MORE cash flow of any kind I can think of. People are fucking DYING and these projects are making a big difference. So if somebody doesn't want to put up money for a DVD because I am going to use that money for an electric tractor, that is perfectly fine. And I am going to work harder to go find ten more people who WILL pony up for the DVDs and I'm gonna fucking pay for that tractor.

Staff note (paul wheaton):

If you like what I have said here, giving this post a thumbs up will do a lot to help our overall forward velocity.

 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 22172
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
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more rant.



I feel like if a person puts $100 into my kickstarter, they get a $100 product. If the kickstarter raises $18,000, I might be able to apply 10 cents to future projects. If the kickstarter raises $100,000, I might be able to apply $40 to future projects.

And I think that when I apply $40 to my future projects, that is about the same as most non-profits applying about $4000 to future projects.

So I feel a bit like a person puts in $100, gets $100 worth of product and about $4000 worth of world problem solving.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I feel.
Staff note (paul wheaton):

If you like what I have said here, giving this post a thumbs up will do a lot to help our overall forward velocity.

 
Isa Delahunt
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The rule of thumb around my own establishment is that if you want faster progress, you have to throw in more money (and some willing helpers help a lot too!). So, if all of us out here in the world are trying things out, learning from mistakes, reinventing the wheel, yeah, it's cheap, sort of, in the short term. But, it's inordinately valuable to be able to build on experience and faster trunaround time, especially where you are talking about reshaping land and growning trees--long time scale anyway. We (people living on planet Earth) seem to be running out of time to mess around! So grub away, get the damn tractor, and lead the way! I appreciate the free and not free stuff, and muddling around on my own all the time it's great to be able to quickly get some new ideas.

And, just because material may not apply to your climate, you can figure out how to adapt. Unless someone is on your land, looking at your particular situation, you are going to have to figure out how to use any technique or approach to building or gardening or whatever. That's part of the fun!

Keep the faith!
 
Charles Tarnard
Posts: 337
Location: PDX Zone 8b 1/6th acre
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FWIW, I haven't supported your kickstarters, due to a confluence of being a huge miser with my money and being in a situation where these videos are not immediately relevant to me. That said I appreciate everything you are trying to do, what you have already done, and this RIDICULOUSLY informative place you've created.

I'm still really new to this. I hope to gain enough knowledge and experience to be able to expand the empire's message, if not always directly expanding the empire. Thank you for everything.
 
Jeff Bartol
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Paul, was this a one time email complaint? (and by complaint I mean "bitch").

I'm very new to this forum. Fairly new to your website. Not so new to the concepts and philosophies you espouse; but not as knowledgeable as most. That said, I'll share my 2 cents worth.

This person - perhaps - does not reflect the majority of current members. This person most certainly does not reflect the majority of future members. This person - apparently - knows a whole lot more than I do; and consequently cannot gleam any knowledge from your postings, your site/insight, or your kick-starters. (He must really be ONE SMART goober!) My advise to this goober would be to move on ... find another site ... another group of experts that can meet your incredibly high intellectual demands. Consider for a moment, Goober, that there are hundreds of common folk today (thousands tomorrow - and millions next year) that need Paul's Permaculture Basics, Self-Reliance 101, and Sustainability Philosophies.

Goober, if you don't like the content or direction of a kick-starter, move on! Personally, I come across many that - though I don't invest in - intrigue the hell out of me ... educate me ... give me a little insight into the trends of our culture, and the momentum of those trends. I'll Google those concepts ... I'll visit relative websites ... maybe buy an eBook or DVD. Whether or not I ultimately invest in that specific kick-starter is irrelevant. I GOT SMARTER. Paul has succeeded!!!

Goober, you've probably got all the answers. God, I wish I knew YOUR website. Oh wait - what's YOUR kick-starter? It must truly be amazingly intellectual and philanthropically selfless.
 
Andrew Schreiber
Posts: 216
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Paul,

I appreciate your earnestness, critical mind, and desire to make big changes. Even if people do not always see what you do as "nice" and "perfect" you have been able to accomplish a lot with the resources and good-faith working relationships you have cultivated over the years. Anyone who cannot recognize that is...not worth the effort.

I have gained a lot of inspiration from the content you have created and documented, and while it is not always acutely relevant to my particular situation, it is none the less a powerful example of what can be done by a small group of dedicated people.

More than anything, I am encouraged that we share the same goal of growing a large scale, profoundly productive permaculture ecosystem that requires no irrigation and little to no "work" to maintain. Over the next years, I am looking forward to seeing how your growing systems develop.

Keep up the good work.

In solidarity,
Andrew
 
Cj Sloane
pollinator
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paul wheaton wrote:
There are a few reasons I haven't backed this kickstarter yet. First, it's expensive. I backed a kickstarter just a while ago for a video but it only cost $25 to get the streaming video.

I am charging $20 per streaming video.


That's not how it reads.
$24 you get all (? except political) podcasts
$60 all three dvds

Ah ha!
Well, maybe people should have the option of $20 for only one streaming DVD. Or, really, $22 for 1 streaming DVD or $60 for all 3 a 10% savings!
 
Sarah Loy
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Passion has always been the thing that changes the world and you have an abundance of it. A lot of passionate people are doing research at universities, some that we hear about through the extension service but some that is harder to find, in scientific journals. Those scientific people love to find people like you to share ideas with and develop and spread life changing ideas. The internet gives us so much more opportunity now to share. I hope you are able to find ways to interact with the scientific community for some great synergy. My husband is a plant breeder at a university and I am a farmer. We get so energized whenever we get to meet with other folks working to improve the lives of the underserved and to create sustainable lives. If we all communicate we don't have to reinvent the wheel and we might find something better. Thanks for providing this forum and I hope you get connected up with lots of other scientists as well.
 
John Polk
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One of your previous issues talked about the desert and it was supposed to be great content... maybe to you, but I live in the north of Canada and it was -44 c last Monday. Besides the point that I don't support the idea of living in the desert, it just does not apply nor will it ever apply to me so I cannot relate to the content your provide, it's just too much off topic for where my interests lie.


I don't want to live in the desert, nor do I want to live where it gets -44* (C or F).

One of the sad facts of reality is that most permies don't have the funds to buy 10 acre plots on the French Riviera, or other desirable spots on this planet. Most of us need to settle for less than perfect land - stuff that BigAg wouldn't want.

Another of the sad facts is that before the world's population hits 10 billion, somebody is going to need to learn how to make parts of that desert (or -44* terrain) into something productive. That's where permies come into play. We are taking that 'cheap land', and showing that it can sustain us, and by increasing our knowledge sets, will be able to feed many more, thus covering our other expenses and needs.

For each person you help take those steps forward, the Earth becomes a better place in the future. Idle dreamers never get anywhere. Active dreamers will change the world.

Continue on. Keep our dreams alive and active - that is how progress happens.
The nay-sayers will never advance the world.



 
Cj Sloane
pollinator
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paul wheaton wrote:
So if somebody doesn't want to put up money for a DVD because I am going to use that money for an electric tractor, that is perfectly fine. And I am going to work harder to go find ten more people who WILL pony up for the DVDs and I'm gonna fucking pay for that tractor.


I think there's an easier way.

People don't consider it money grubbing when you give them what they want.

Have you considered a poll to see which of your plans are the most popular?

I, for example, would kick in:
$10 towards you making that a wofati freezer will keep stuff frozen all year using just thermal inertia.
$25 towards a DVD that shows how you made a wofati freezer that will keep stuff frozen all year using just thermal inertia.
$50 towards plans to make a wofati freezer.
$70 towards plans to make a wofati freezer plus the DVD.

I don't care what you do with the profit.
 
Jeff Bartol
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Relative to the larger, more important post: Paul's "MY PLANS"


show that a wofati stays warm all winter without any heat
show that a wofati shell can be built for one tenth the cost of a conventional home
show that a wofati shell can be built in one half the time of a conventional home
show that a wofati house can be built for half the cost of a conventional house when you pay for labor
show that a wofati freezer will keep stuff frozen all year using just thermal inertia
grow a lemon tree outdoors in montana


As a new member, I'm very glad to see this. There is such a plethora of wonderful information on this site & forums - historically and currently - it's difficult for a newbie to grasp its essence and direction. The bullets and priority of "MY PLAN" truly helps to clarify this. I am personally intrigued by the greater focus on the "Architectural" aspect of Permaculture. Not that Agriculture is not important; I simply believe that the components that address the "human" aspect vs that of agronomy and husbandry have been far too overlooked. That said, I think that WOFATI has a great deal to add to this development. Paul's first four bullets touch on immediate benefits of this (Oehler / Hait / Timber-Framing) concept, and with little effort can be expanded into a WOFATI root cellar, refrig, and freezer (Paul's 5th bullet) utilizing cold sink techniques. I'd like to add to that a WOFATI greenhouse -- the beneficiary of those cold sinks i.e. heat sink. Perhaps this starts to answer the demands of a lemon tree or avocado tree in northern/cold climates. I'd like to extend one bullet further and include WOFATI sheds, animal shelters, barns, winter enclosures for chickens, rabbits, bees and a WOFATI greeenhouse/acquaponic biosystems. Etc. etc.

I think this also directly addresses Kathleen Minniti's post regarding mental illness (and cancer ... obesity ... immune deficiencies ... etc.) I believe that to address these "human" issues and problems, we need to seriously examine and re-invent the boxes in which we "store" humans. I think an examination of the buildings we live and work in; play, learn and love in; eat, bath and shit in - merits a reinvention; perhaps even a revolution. The beginnings of which may very well be WOFATI.
 
Josh Ritchey
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Have you thought of having your own online marketplace to work in conjunction w/ amazon? You can sell your stuff and that of others (w/ a cut of course) like ernie and erica w/out paying the amazon a piece. Amazon does however provide a great way of pulling in new perspective customers, members and evangelists as Joel salatin would put it.

Another thought, I rarely have more than $20 I can dedicate to you and other causes for liberty which I believe in strongly. The $75 or so for this earthworks set was a one timer per year kind of thing. You having a store of sorts to sell various items all the way from a night at the project to a full DVD set would allow us to contribute more often rather than the slim 30 day window of the occasional kick starter.

Thirdly, have you thought of non-profitting it up? Then we could make tax deductible donations, you could avoid some more taxes going to fund Monsanto and we all get to do as much as we can with what we've got.
 
Cj Sloane
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Josh, maybe you missed this part:

I am dedicated to being extra-extra-extra-grubby.


Non-profits can be this way, but I don't think that's how Paul wants to fly.
 
Matu Collins
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Josh Ritchey wrote:
Thirdly, have you thought of non-profitting it up? Then we could make tax deductible donations, you could avoid some more taxes going to fund Monsanto and we all get to do as much as we can with what we've got.


I am on the board of a non profit and have been on others. That's a thing about non-profits, they are run by a board. One of the great thing about permies is that it is an empire with a leader. Buck stops here and all that. There is something effective and nimble about that.

I think it would be best if Paul didn't have to bother wasting time reading complainy emails. He certainly shouldn't have to waste time justifying himself. There should be some code that sends them to someone else (send em to me!) or directly to a compost heap. Ideas? Send em. Complaints? Fugeddaboutit. Skip over the parts you don't like or unsubscribe.

 
Josh Ritchey
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Valid points, I suppose that is part of the benefit to a forum. You guys have successfully filtered my terd of an idea before it made it to the boss.
 
Rhoda Kendry
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-44 sounds like Manitoba. Not all Canadians are Goobers

I personally have not put money in because I'm a single mom making minimum wage. You have noooo Idea how much I wanted a deck of those playing cards or the rocket mass heater stuff lol.

Paul I have learned so much in your forums and from the videos. I am eternally greatful that someone is out there doing what you do and sharing as much as you have for free.

Rhoda
 
Matu Collins
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Josh Ritchey wrote:Valid points, I suppose that is part of the benefit to a forum. You guys have successfully filtered my terd of an idea before it made it to the boss.


It's not a bad idea! It's just not likely in this situation. May many Permaculture based nonprofits grow and thrive.

We run our homestead without much money too, so kickstarters are pretty far down the budget list. I did get some decks of cards though! Also we have plenty of water and don't need earthworks. My three year old twin boys sure do love the commercial though. I'm not big on fossil fuel power but they are very pro excavator
 
Weston Ginther
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paul wheaton wrote: I think about cancer, war, pollution, starvation and think I NEED TO MAXIMIZE THE FORWARD VELOCITY OF THESE PROJECTS! And that takes money. Heaps of it.

Therefore, I am not just any money grubber. I am dedicated to being extra-extra-extra-grubby. MORE kickstarters. MORE advertisers. MORE products. MORE cash flow of any kind I can think of. People are fucking DYING and these projects are making a big difference.


THIS... and especially THIS


Keep up the amazing work Paul, haters are gonna hate
 
Michael Cox
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paul wheaton wrote:
(top priority) bring somebody with cancer here and their cancer goes away


Paul - all your other aims look great, I can see the relevance to the broader permaculture movement and how the evidence you are hoping to collect (eg highest yeild per acre etc...) will help promote the whole permaculture movement.

I have to say though, that claims of curing cancer - from any source, using any method, or theory, wonder food, exercise etc... - ring alarm bells with me. The burden of proof in this case is massive and you risk associating yourself with a lunatic fringe of internet nutjobs and snake oil salesmen. (NB - not saying that you are selling snake oil here, but that the potential association could be harmful)
Do I think permaculture has a role to play in improving health through improved diet, more active lifestyle, exposure to few harmful compounds etc... yes of course. Does a leap from there to curing cancer sound reasonable? To my mind no.

Also, I think permaculture is a potential solution to so many other world problems that trying to drag cancer into the mix as well seems unnecessary - when you are supplying the world's food through permaculture systems (hence alleviating hunger, environmental problems, pollution, reducing fossil fuel use etc...) and huge numbers of people are living in a permie way... THEN you might be able to collect enough evidence to show a link between lifestyle and cancer, but it will arise from a global community of millions of people.

Even if you take someone with cancer to your place and they live with you, eat your food etc... and their cancer goes away... you have done nothing to prove your case beyond a single example of someone for whom it has gone away. It is well known in medicine that spontanious remission exists - all you have done is supplied one more data point for the status quo.

I guess it comes down to a personal belief position - I wouldn't be satisfied that permaculture cures cancer on the basis of limited evidence you could provide. If I'm personally not convinced then I would feel a fraud even mentioning that possible angle when promoting permaculture or even just casually discussing it with friends and colleagues. I would much rather sell permaculture on tangible environmental and human benefits; food with more nutritional value, reduced dependence on external inputs especially fossil fuels, sustainable agriculture in brittle landscapes, reducing global poverty etc... I can see how to get to THERE from HERE and better still I can explain it to others in a way that they can internalise, understand and believe in.

So, if you are after funding for your projects I for one would have some strong preferences as to the type of investment being made:
I want to see projects that have broader applications beyond your own land. I want to see projects that can be pointed to as example of what works. I don't want to fund cancer research because I consider it outside the field of permaculture and could conceivably undermine your credibility as an authority and an exemplar.

Mike
 
paul wheaton
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So, Michael, if you think you have a cure for cancer, you are thinking that you would:

A) try to not think about it

B) don't say a word because people might think you are crazy

C) check yourself into a mental hospital because you are clearly nuts

D) hope that somebody will think of the same thing and do something about it

E) write it in your diary and hope that after you are dead somebody might read it

F) mention it at cocktail parties as a crazy theory you heard about in the hopes that someone else might run with it

G) quit your day job and work 100 hours per week to see if it works at all. Then if you get some success, you work more until you have repeated success. Then if you have repeated success get larger scale repeated success.

I'm going with "G". Rather than travel the world eating pie, I am working freaky long hours and living like a pauper so that I might solve some world problems before I die. And I am way past giving a shit that people think I'm a kook. There are quite a few that think I'm fucking awesome. And there seems to be a list of people that have beat cancer following my advice. I guess the people that thought I was a kook and got cancer traveled another path. The thing that bugs me is: what happens when children get cancer? So, yes, I need repeatable results. That will take about ten years to set up and another three years to get repeatable results. Very long term. And that's assuming that all of my kickstarters get overfunded to the tune of $100,000 each. Otherwise it will take longer.

I think the cure for cancer and many other diseases is very simple: reduce toxins. In the city in a conventional house, an expert could reduce the toxins by about 45%. In the woods of remote montana, I think I can reduce the toxins by maybe 90%. Maybe even 95%.

I think that cancer does not come from the cancer fairy: "oh damn, you got cancer - you must have been selected by the cancer fairy for death." I think cancer comes from carcinogens. Lots of them. Most of them have not yet been identified.


Staff note (paul wheaton):

If you like what I have said here, giving this post a thumbs up will do a lot to help our overall forward velocity.

 
David Livingston
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A couple of points
I agree with you Paul that it appears that cancer is caused by carcinogens however I think of them as dangerous keys that can turn cells cancerous if there are the correctly shaped keyholes ( genetics ) to unlock them . Unfortunetly I am unsure its a two way switch if not then whilst the damage is done removing the person to a " clean " place may not help.
I am curious as to why you dont open an online shop to fund many worthy endevours. You I suspect have many minions with the computer skills (. Dont look at me am to old) this could promote your stuff diirectly, other peoples stuff you like for a kickback as it were. Plus stuff like permie real estate . Electric tractors , cast iron stuff etc etc. seeds trees other permie books etc etc

Just an idea or two

David
 
paul wheaton
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David Livingston wrote:A couple of points
I agree with you Paul that it appears that cancer is caused by carcinogens however I think of them as dangerous keys that can turn cells cancerous if there are the correctly shaped keyholes ( genetics ) to unlock them . Unfortunetly I am unsure its a two way switch if not then whilst the damage is done removing the person to a " clean " place may not help.



May not. Or may. Of course, in one of my podcasts, it has been done. And we have long threads where it has been done. I think not only can it be done, but there are hundreds of recipes for doing it.


I am curious as to why you dont open an online shop to fund many worthy endevours.


Like this?
 
Michael Cox
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paul wheaton wrote:I'm going with "G". Rather than travel the world eating pie, I am working freaky long hours and living like a pauper so that I might solve some world problems before I die. And I am way past giving a shit that people think I'm a kook. There are quite a few that think I'm fucking awesome. And there seems to be a list of people that have beat cancer following my advice. I guess the people that thought I was a kook and got cancer traveled another path. The thing that bugs me is: what happens when children get cancer? So, yes, I need repeatable results. That will take about ten years to set up and another three years to get repeatable results. Very long term. And that's assuming that all of my kickstarters get overfunded to the tune of $100,000 each. Otherwise it will take longer.

I think the cure for cancer and many other diseases is very simple: reduce toxins. In the city in a conventional house, an expert could reduce the toxins by about 45%. In the woods of remote montana, I think I can reduce the toxins by maybe 90%. Maybe even 95%.

I think that cancer does not come from the cancer fairy: "oh damn, you got cancer - you must have been selected by the cancer fairy for death." I think cancer comes from carcinogens. Lots of them. Most of them have not yet been identified.


Yep, I quite agree - toxins can trigger cancer, many of them are all around us. Avoiding them is a good thing and I think you have quite a plausible and logical basis for claiming that a permaculture lifestyle could be shown to reduce the incidence of cancer. However that is quite a different proposition from curing cancer in someone who already has it - their genetic switches have already been flipped for what ever reason and have cancer cells running amok through their bodies.

Get a few thousand people living the permaculture lifestyle for a few years then look at incidence of disease (I say disease, not just cancer but ill health in general should benefit from a healthier lifestyle) and you have the start of reasonable evidence based case for reducing cancer/vitamin deficiency related diseases etc...

However it is a huge step to go from such a position to inviting people with cancer to come and be cured - do they stop taking their conventional medication while they are with you? Ethically incredibly dubious if so, and if not then you still don't have case for effecting a cure as you can't separate the effects of the medication from the lifestyle change. Talking about a "cure" rather than "prevention" in this context is for me a step too far.

*** an aside ***
Higher altitudes have higher levels of background radiation due to thinner atmosphere and the tendency of high altitude rocks to be igneous and contain traces of radioactive isotopes. Radiation is a known carcinogen yet people living at higher altitudes world wide tend to have lower incidences of cancer than those who live at sea level. Reducing carcinogens in this case seems to have the opposite effect than expected - people have theorised why, but no one really knows.
 
Lyvia Dequincey
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Paul, I love your work, and your enthusiasm. Good luck in all your goals. You are making a huge impact on the world as a pioneer. Your understanding of science gives credibility to what you do, and brings people on board.

I wanted to share two stories. First, a person I know used to have CML which is Leukemia. Years ago, the chromosome that makes the leukemia was no longer detectable in his bloodstream. At this point the obvious path to health is sunshine, exercise, fresh air, fresh veggies, and low carcinogens. But traditional medicine, not yet adapted to the success of the current drugs, is supporting his fear that the cancer might come back. So he takes chemo daily, ruining his appetite, then eats mostly white carbs, which ruin his energy, so he is a couch potato and a weakling. Think about that - he is cured, but won't act like it, and is condemning himself. There is a lot of wonky psychology around cancer, as well as the wonky politics. It's a huge and powerful industry, and it uses our deepest fears against us - the fear of broccoli! lol

Anyway, the second story is academic. I once tried to write a paper linking federal money the US spent in Central America to the increase in democratic process or freedom there. Sort of how much bang do we get for that buck? But after it was too late, I realized that the cause and effect were too complex and nonspecific to be linked at all. I could not even decipher the budgets enough to link money approved by Congress through money changing hands and reallocated to money that actually paid a guard or bought a tree, and when, let alone tie that to electoral progress. So I changed my goal to getting a decent grade through simple bulk, and wrote around the topic for 150 increasingly dull pages with no conclusions, and got my grade. Bet the prof never read the middle. Doesn't matter, the paper sucked, and only proved my insight into academia.

We appreciate your gift for advancing permaculture, for re-engineering our construction and food industries so we quit poisoning ourselves. I feel like trying to make the link from not poisoning ourselves to "curing cancer" has so many variables, thousands of poisons, thousands of cancers, and a deeply established (overly?) rigorous system of medical testing, that it would be a hugely tricky path. Don't give up, just carefully pick your steps to get where you want. So that the first challenge becomes phrasing it in such a way that people can appreciate/fund. You want to experiment with promoting health by removing carcinogens. That's wonderful. Beyond wonderful, I believe it can be life changing for society. Are you going to control for exercise, for sunshine, for diet? Have a control population exposed to carcinogens? If not, then the wording "cure cancer" doesn't serve you. It's a trap phrase.

On the other hand, how's this for a related idea - you offer room and board for ten sick people for four months, on the premise that they agree to X amount of time outdoors, X amount of exercise, everything you cook, "clean" food, water, air, clothing and shelter, maybe even some therapy animals (bottle lambs?), and light but productive work, like carding wool or spinning or shelling peas, and if they break the rules, they have to leave. Make it a documentary project, or even a reality TV show. Granted, it's more TV than science, but TV sways society faster. This is almost what you were going to do anyway, but bigger, and without the trap phrase. You might add coaches, who would provide a sunny enthusiastic presence to the film. And educational topics, and something funny for balance, because sick people do complain. Anyway, this is a bigger project, but I'm passing the idea hackeysack to you. Kick it, and it will take a new shape.

Have you ever talked to Dr Andrew Weil? He is a pioneering bridge between alternative and traditional medicine, with a huge public presence. I bet he has good and bad experiences with phrasing for this type of thing, as well as anecdotal knowledge of the effect of clean living on illness.

Best of luck. Some day you and me both will be old in our rocking chairs, and I hope by then clean living will be an essential in elder care.
 
David Livingston
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Nô not like that
Who am I to teach you about the importance of présentation ?
I was thinking something more like an on Line shop rather than a none alphabetical list : pauls list rather than craigs list

David
 
Ty Morrison
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Paul:

One of the things I learned from the PDC was that the observations are well suited to memorializing as a plan.

While you have done an excellent (albeit controversial) placing your desires into a tangible form via this medium, I strongly encourage you develop a masterplan for the land.

While it won't necessarily encompass all of your desires for world domination, it is always handy as a map of where you want to go.

I would gladly volunteer to provide the service of preparing such a plan if you are at all interested (you have my e-mail).

As far as all that other stuff: stick to your guns. You are on to something and it is inspiring. Sometimes negative criticism is good too, at least others are listening to what you have to say. Always be suspect of unanimous decisions or no resistance.

 
Ben Hansen
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The beauty of kickstarter is that if you don't support a project, you don't have to contribute to it. It's sad that people take the time to criticize those who are doing good things, rather than leading by example and doing it in the way they think is better.
 
Ben Hansen
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As to the cancer subject, I highly recommend The End of Illness by David Agus. He touches on all of these subjects.
 
Gary Briane Tuttle
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paul wheaton wrote:
(top priority) bring somebody with cancer here and their cancer goes away


Paul, I might be your guy on that one. Please PM me if you are serious about that.
 
paul wheaton
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Gary Briane Tuttle wrote:
Paul, I might be your guy on that one. Please PM me if you are serious about that.


I think we are ten years out until we can do our first try. We need to build our infrastructure and then optimize it. Then optimize is many more times.
 
Gary Briane Tuttle
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paul wheaton wrote:
Gary Briane Tuttle wrote:
Paul, I might be your guy on that one. Please PM me if you are serious about that.


I think we are ten years out until we can do our first try. We need to build our infrastructure and then optimize it. Then optimize is many more times.


Im not even sure which way to go with that...Im guessing that you are making assumptions as to my physical condition, or more precisely, assumptions that I am lacking a state of vigor, because I got the diagnosis I got (I am full of vigor, for the record, and even more so for the ladies in the audience) That, and/or your fear of being accused of telling someone you can cure them is giving you pause. Clearly, btw, you never said that, but I do know that in my case, one of the pieces pieces of the puzzle for me to heal is me getting off/out of the "rat race treadmill cog in the consumerist machine that is eating and poisoning the planet to death".

I guess I am not your guy, then. (Back to my plans to start my own community, it is...)

Anyway, you could reach your goal of getting someone in there to heal by tailoring financial assistance/etc things to people who are living with cancer with the agreement that they live there for x amount of time (kind of like as mentioned above)...don't mention them healing at all. Take it out of the equation. The body will go ahead and do it anyway, even without an offficial endorsement, once the blocks to health have been removed, adn the nbody is given the proper raw materials to work with.

Also, The people who *do* heal by going to your place can speak a lot more freely about it after the fact than you or anyone else affiliated with your organization ever will be. ..
 
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