Questions about eating 'Paleo'

Warren David wrote:Before paleo I was suffering with...

Lower back problems
Dry skin
Sinus problems
Chest infections
Candida
Low blood sugar
Pains throughout my digestive system

All gone after switching to a paleo diet.

I have just thought of a couple more. I also stopped getting gout and acid reflux. The usual cures for gout that I have seen have suggested a reduction in high protein foods such as meat. I am actually eating more meat now than I was when I had gout. What seemed to get rid of gout was reducing carbs. The carbs seemed to have been causing some sort of stress that caused my body problems in dealing with the uric acid in protein. I found this out totally by accident after reducing carbs, to combat acid reflux and candida.

Does anyone think the Blood Type diet might be pertinent here?  According to this theory, our earliest ancestors all had type O blood.  Type O people eat meat and vegetables and nuts comfortably.  Their blood type developed in pre-grain (agriculture) days.  When the hunter gatherers settled into agriculture a new blood type evolved that supported the use of grains.  That was blood type A.  Further evolution created the other blood types, B and
AB, but I'm not clear on what prompted those changes.  Lectins are the reference for that which we are adapted to according to our blood type. 

After thinking about this for a while.... I have come up with what I would define as a paleo diet... or at least the thought pattern that would go with it. Certainly there are plants now that were not there then and vice versa.

  1) the first thing is it would be 100% raw. Controlled fire is not really that old.
  2) Anything free hanging. fruits, nuts and beans. Think ease of gathering.
  3) Fruit would be eaten at time of finding, often while walking. like grazing.
  4) veggies and nuts would be saved at least some of the time. Eggs maybe not.
  5) meat would be eaten raw. I don't know how long it would have taken to figure it tasted better
        aged, probably not that long, bears do.
  6) Roots anyone? how long would it take to notice wild pigs digging up roots?

Actually, just about anything that "tasted" like food or were seen to be eaten by other animals would at least be tried. So the exceptions would be more pointed, nothing cooked or needing cooking, nothing bland or tasteless, nothing that made you sick nothing that needed processing. I would suggest starches would be the one big thing not in the diet (well sugar too), but the diet would vary greatly from place to place, from vegan (in places with a lot of easy to reach vegetation) to carnivore (as in the arctic where there is only meat). I have been reading that man lived in cold climates long before fire was domesticated, but skins and furs were common.

The raw meat thing would be hard to follow today as most meat is not fit to be eaten raw because of our farming methods... I would think meat would have been one of the first things cooked when fire was first used for cooking... maybe after tasting an animal cooked by a forest fire. Drying (in the sun) probably came first. Smoking may have started before cooking.

It is interesting that the modern diet for treating many gut problems, allows anything but starch and heavy sugars (fruits and honey are ok). So perhaps "Paleo" is the wrong word... maybe it is just a matter of avoiding things that are poisonous.

2 years ago giving up bread would have been easy, then I started making my own...

Hmm, I've read that cooking with fire was pretty early and what led to the modern large brain.  Because we cooked food we didn't need large jaw muscles and big teeth so were able to devote more of the skull to brain than to jaw and teeth.

People apparently used fire before we were Homo sapiens.  Homo habilis apparently used fire, Homo erectus may have used it.  Personally I think it would be stretching it to claim the Paleolithic diet didn't use fire, when clearly Paleolithic Homo sapiens used fire.

Our dentition and skulls show we have eaten cooked food for a LONG time.

Ludi Ludi wrote:

People apparently used fire before we were Homo sapiens.  Homo habilis apparently used fire, Homo erectus may have used it.  Personally I think it would be stretching it to claim the Paleolithic diet didn't use fire, when clearly Paleolithic Homo sapiens used fire.

I think the difference is that some of what I was reading talks about "man" without being clear about what that is defined as. David Lyle in his book on masonry stoves, seems to indicate that "man" has lived only about half his existence with fire.... but then, on further reading, does indicate that "homo sapiens"  inherited fire from further back. Thanks for the correction, it made me read more and learn more.... cooking does change things somewhat... Cooking would have been one of the first types of "processing" though I would think fermenting, drying and smoking might have come earlier. There seems to be some question if bread or beer showed up first..... I have heard brewers claim beer came from bread making and bakers claim bread came from brewing.... The only comment I can make on that is beer requires no griding or a lot less grinding to work. Once the grain berry is broken so water can enter, it can ferment. I am sure they knew what that smell was from making wine. Wine is hard not to make as soon as you juice or crush the grapes.


In any case, the diets would vary with region and what food was available. I don't know how long the Inuit have been around, but they have up until bumping into "white man" been mostly carnivores with raw being a big part of it (the only vit C around for most parts of the year). There seem to be other ancient people who don't eat meat. So I can't see "Paleo" being a set diet as to what was eaten so much as what was not.

There are old communities around the world that tend not to eat meat but they do tend to use other animal proteins and fats from eggs and dairy. 

It's all very well speculating what people might have eaten thousands of years ago and if they did or didn't use fire. It's an interesting topic but nobody should be copying their diet from a history book just because some other guy may have been eating that way 100000 years ago. The trick is to find what foods suit your own body and go with those foods.

The blood type diet ideas may or may not work for different people. There's probably not much harm in trying it and if it works then that's great. If it doesn't, then move onto something else.

A "paleo" diet is simply anything that can be eaten raw. This doesn't mean that it must be eaten raw though. I have found that what has become known as "paleo" is what suits me.  Even so there are foods that a paleo man might have eaten that I do not get on with. For example, lettuce and celery give me belly aches.  They are probably paleo but it doesn't mean I can eat them.  As I mentioned elsewhere, fruits are not great for me either.
This is why I always stress that we should just find what suits our own bodies. If somebody can enjoy and thrive on a much more more modern diet then I really have no problem with them following a different diet to me. 

BTW. Woolly mammoth may soon be back on the menu! Look here 

Warren David wrote:


A "paleo" diet is simply anything that can be eaten raw. This doesn't mean that it must be eaten raw though.

Ok, I can see that.

BTW. Woolly mammoth may soon be back on the menu! Look here 

I'll have a side please.

I'll have a side please.

Len wrote:
After thinking about this for a while.... I have come up with what I would define as a paleo diet...

...I would suggest starches would be the one big thing not in the diet (well sugar too), but the diet would vary greatly from place to place, from vegan (in places with a lot of easy to reach vegetation) to carnivore (as in the arctic where there is only meat).

I would suggest that just about anything on a raw vegan diet could probably be classed as a "paleo" food but I've not read  any evidence of veganism during the paleolithic period.

My rule on this,

"all human food tastes good in its raw natural state, even if we don't eat it that way due to health concerns or cultural bias"

I made this my rule 18 months ago, I don't count calories and I really got on the 100% bandwagon with it in the last 90ish days.  My results, I have lost 71 lbs, with zero conventional exercise (read that 1 2 3 4 type exercises).  I walk, garden, hunt, fish, play with my dog, canoe, etc.  That is it, that's all.

I will promise you this there were NO VEGANS in the paleo period, meat is the most high quality source of nutrient and protein and fat on the planet.  If you want to be vegan that is fine with me I am just pointing out what I believe to be the biological reality here.

I also think paleo and permaculture fit perfectly together specifically in pond and forest based systems.  Both allow humans to get plenty of food and do almost no ecological damage.  A soy or corn field does a LOT of ecological damage. 

I just figure it this way, early humans watched animals, ate what didn't kill them, in small quantities to test safety and pretty much ate what ever tasted good.  I don't think cooking messes up anything, the question is can you eat it raw and would it taste good if you did.  BTW with meat, the answer is absolutely yes.  Biltong anyone?  Steak Tar Tar?  Sashimi? 

Anyone read up on the blood type diets? Peter D'Adamo did a lot of research on lectins and wrote "Eat Right For Your Type," and "Live Right for Your Type" (which includes blood type's relationship with lifestyle, personality type, exercise type, etc). I don't follow it 100% but it has helped me a lot, and seems to resonate with how my body feels best. I don't know much about B and AB blood types, but I know O's do very well on the paleo diet, and A's can do better with a potentially vegetarian diet as they theoretically evolved with agriculture. Apparently they do better staying away from (too much) red meat as it can make them sluggish, but still greatly benefit from other anmal proteins. I am an O and red meat totally energizes me.

Suzy Bean wrote:
Anyone read up on the blood type diets? Peter D'Adamo did a lot of research on lectins and wrote "Eat Right For Your Type," and "Live Right for Your Type" (which includes blood type's relationship with lifestyle, personality type, exercise type, etc). I don't follow it 100% but it has helped me a lot, and seems to resonate with how my body feels best. I don't know much about B and AB blood types, but I know O's do very well on the paleo diet, and A's can do better with a potentially vegetarian diet as they theoretically evolved with agriculture. Apparently they do better staying away from (too much) red meat as it can make them sluggish, but still greatly benefit from other anmal proteins. I am an O and red meat totally energizes me.

The one doctor I ran that by said that the diet that goes with the blood type most people have, is a pretty good diet (low in sugar and processed starches). He figured this made the whole thing look good because there are a great percentage of people it works well for. Having said that, this Dr. tended to be pretty opinionated too. However, he did show how easy it is to misuse things like that. Another angle to look at the same thing is that blood type has a lot to do with parentage and so general blood types may have come with people from particular parts of the world where the food available set the diet and so it is the genetics other than blood type that cause different diets to work for different people... or even gut biology which is also passed from mother to child aside from genetics.

In the end, I think people have to start from something pretty good (no processed foods) and try adding or subtracting from there to see where their health goes. The one problem with this is that some food choices can take many years to show their problems. In most cases it would seem to me better to try adding things to a good diet and not subtract so much as decrease other things so as not to leave something out.

One thing to watch for are things that seem to cause problems but may be a sign something fed to them is the problem... my son was allergic to eggs... until we tried him on eggs from chickens not fed antibiotics in their feed. The same can happen with plants depending on what is in the soil... such as the case where antibiotics were found in "organic" veggies because they were using cow manure to fertilise. Growing our own food is the fix for this.

Suzy Bean wrote:
Anyone read up on the blood type diets? Peter D'Adamo did a lot of research on lectins and wrote "Eat Right For Your Type," and "Live Right for Your Type" (which includes blood type's relationship with lifestyle, personality type, exercise type, etc). I don't follow it 100% but it has helped me a lot, and seems to resonate with how my body feels best. I don't know much about B and AB blood types, but I know O's do very well on the paleo diet, and A's can do better with a potentially vegetarian diet as they theoretically evolved with agriculture. Apparently they do better staying away from (too much) red meat as it can make them sluggish, but still greatly benefit from other anmal proteins. I am an O and red meat totally energizes me.

I'm an O- and a diet without starches hurts me, granted I find root tuber type starches tastier


I think assuming that our distant ancestors did not eat starchy plant roots or any other given thing is a bit silly, but dodging any food that could not be produced with natural inputs and simple tools is probably wise.

for example several animal experiments have shown that feeding whole wheat help most mammals digest corn and that germless wheat does not provide this benefit. I do not know if human studies have been done into this.  worth noting that even whole wheat bread does not contain the germ only whole grain

Brice, I'm pretty sure the 'whole wheat' flour I buy has the germ included.
I'm paying enough for it, it better be all there
Is it a terminology/national thing? My flour's biodynamically grown and the farmer's very particular about its freshness. Considering the germ speeds up rancidity, I should be ok. I might need to email them...

Brice Moss wrote:
I think assuming that our distant ancestors did not eat starchy plant roots or any other given thing is a bit silly, but dodging any food that could not be produced with natural inputs and simple tools is probably wise.

I support eating those roots! It's been a while since I read the food lists in the blood type books, but I'm pretty sure turnips and sweet potatoes are on the "beneficial" list for O's, for example. (The book looks at each type and gives lists of things that are beneficial, neutral, to be avoided.) Here is the main website: http://www.dadamo.com/

Suzy Bean wrote:
I support eating those roots! It's been a while since I read the food lists in the blood type books, but I'm pretty sure turnips and sweet potatoes are on the "beneficial" list for O's, for example. (The book looks at each type and gives lists of things that are beneficial, neutral, to be avoided.) Here is the main website: http://www.dadamo.com/

See to me turnips and sweet potatoes are quite paleo, both can be eaten raw.  Ever slice up and eat a raw white potato though

Leila Rich wrote:
Brice, I'm pretty sure the 'whole wheat' flour I buy has the germ included.
I'm paying enough for it, it better be all there
Is it a terminology/national thing? My flour's biodynamically grown and the farmer's very particular about its freshness. Considering the germ speeds up rancidity, I should be ok. I might need to email them...

I am not sure about where you are, but here.... "whole wheat" can mean UB or AP flour with enough bran added to approximate what was there before refining it out. The key to look for is the word "enriched". Or if there is an ingredients list that is a tip off too... Here, the words to look for are "whole grain". I guess there is a different legal meaning. Whole wheat is ok to use in both cases.... whole grain must be just ground with no refining or adding. Most stone ground and specialty flours are good. (I live in Canada BTW) I have also found that stores run by east Indian people have the best and cheapest flour. They seem to be much more picky about what they eat than the normal north american. (best store bought yogurt too)

Warren David wrote:
We don't actually "need" starch. It's more to do with how your body has got used to using starch for energy. I havn't eaten any starch in years and never feel the need for it even though my work is very physical.

I limit starch consumption to around 30 grams per day.  Some days I don't eat any.  It depends upon what I feel like eating.  I know it is in the vegetables I eat but I don't eat them every day.  Some days I only have animal protein and fat.  I agree with you that we don't really need it in our diet. In the winter my diet is almost exclusively animal protein and fat and no starch.  We get long lasting energy from fats, especially medium chain fatty acids.  In my opinion starches are only good for spiking your blood glucose levels which is bad for your pancreas.

jack spirko wrote:
See to me turnips and sweet potatoes are quite paleo, both can be eaten raw.  Ever slice up and eat a raw white potato though

Raw sweet potatoes contain an inhibitor that prevents protein digestion. Heat destroys that enzyme.  I suppose that not eating them with a protein wouldn't hurt though.  On my vegetable eating days I eat sweet potatoes but I roast them at a low temperature (275 F) for about 1 1/2 hours.  Yummmmmm.

marinajade wrote:
I'd say that WPF eaters DO eat grains, but they are properly prepared grains that have been fermented or soaked for a significant amount of time, or sprouted and re-dried.  They eat far fewer servings of grains than the standard american diet, and they are always whole and preferably freshly-ground.  Proper (long term) fermentation eliminates the toxins that are in all pulses. 

Lots of meat consumption is not an intrinsic part of the diet WPF promotes.  In cultures with little access to meat, eggs and milk are frequently the sources of the very important fat-soluble vitamins (A and D, the human body cannot manufacture them, and they are not available (in an absorbable form or in large enough quantity) in plant foods).  They are only found in the products of animals who eat green growing grass.  Free range chicken eggs are good sources of A and D, caged eggs are not. 

Sea foods are extremely important in many traditional diets, with some cultures going great lengths to obtain them -  even far inland.  Prices speaks of Peruvians who dried fish eggs and carried them up 15,000 ft mountains for their children and pregnant mothers. 

WPF really emphasizes the importance of of growing children (and both sexes of partners actively engaged in creating children) eating lots and lots of animal foods containing fat-soluble vitamins.  Price had a child who died at a young age of an infected root canal, and his deep concern for the health of children was a huge motivating factor in his research.  Most of the photos in his book are of children. 

Price investigated the vitamin content of different kinds of milk and found butter made from the milk of cows who eat quickly growing grass to contain significantly more A and D vitamins than other milk.  Milk from cows eating low quality hay is actually a poor source of these vitamins.  He encouraged people to clarify the butter from the best time of year and to use it as a vitamin supplement the rest of the year. 

Honestly, reading Price's work has re-enforced everything I've ever read about food in Nourishing Traditions.  The photos in Nutrition and Physical Degeneration speak volumes even without the written testament behind them.  They clearly show the drastic differences between the mouths and health of children with parents eating traditional foods and the mouths of children with parents eating the western diet. 

He was determined to prove that crooked teeth, narrow jaws, TB, and clubbed feet were not hereditary - he has many photos of families with children born before and after the road or port came to their village and gave them access to western foods.  The children born before the road are very different looking than the children born after - and presumably they both have similar genes to their parents, it's just the diet of the parents and children that has changed dramatically, with dramatic physical results in the offspring. 

I quite literally was moved to tears while looking at the photos of Seminole people in Florida.  They were so beautiful for so many generations, and ONE GENERATION of eating a vitamin depleted diet completely changed their facial structure and sent their health into a steep downward spiral. 

I bought my first copy of Nutrition & Physical Degeneration in 1972.  I wore it out although it is still in the bookcase over there ---->   It was recommended to me by Dr. Jim Duke after a seminar when I was studying nutritional healing & herbal medicine.  Reading Dr. Price's book was literally a life altering experience.  I have given about a dozen copies away as gifts over the years since those early days of alternative health study.  I grew up in a family of MD's and RN's so I was well acquainted with mainstream medicine but I wasn't interested in treating illnesses.  I was interested in prevention.  What I learned from my Dad (MD) was that giving the body the proper tools it heals itself.  He told me that "my patients would get well in spite of what I do because it is the body that does the healing, not the healer."  I always kept that piece of wisdom with me.

After reading through the entire thread I only noticed minimal discussion of a point that in my opinion is extremely important.  As Dr. Price pointed out in his book.  Geography matters.  The comment suggesting that in the "paleo" era adults did not consume milk (dairy).  I would point out that just isn't even true and even of northern Europeans.  That term I would assume means white northern Europeans but Lapplanders consume reindeer milk as a major part of their diet from cradle to grave and there are many of them that are typically Caucasian.  Mongols drink horse milk fermented and fresh.  The diets of humans varies greatly by what is available to them geographically.  That does not mean forays aren't made to acquire certain foods that over the ages have proven to be healthy for them.  The Peruvian mountain dwellers frying fish eggs is a perfect example.  It has been my experience that when the "paleo diet" gets discussed it generates a debate without conclusion.  I have read posts on other sites that claim the paleo diet is entirely vegan and some that suggest the opposite.  I think a better solution is to eat what is healthy for you.  No one diet works for everyone.  If that were the case the world population would have had limited growth. 
One thing regarding human physiology is certain.  Our digestive system did not evolve capable of eating grain.  If it was it would be have much greater length.  That suggest that humans did not eat grains during the paleolithic era.  My familiarity with the botany of that period in our history isn't as strong as it should be so I cannot speak to what type of fruits were available in any geographic region but it seems logical to me that paleo humans ate animal protein year round unless it was unavailable to them such as in extreme climate conditions.

Food allergies are more related to the industrialization of the food chain than geography.  I have dozens of acquaintances that were at one time extremely lactose intolerant until they stopped drinking pasteurized homogenized milk and then over time reconditioned their digestive systems to raw dairy products.  Unless you process your own grains removing soy from your diet is nearly impossible.  Soy is not fit for human consumption unless it is fermented.  Then it is safer but still possesses anti-nutrient characteristics.  I make something that is similar in taste to soy sauce from rye berries.  There are no soybeans in it at all.  I stopped eating soy about 20 years ago and my health improved noticeably.  It wasn't that I was unhealthy but even my appearance changed enough that friends made comments
such as "have you lost weight?" etc.  My fitness level has been way above average for most of my adult life so losing weight was not what had happened.  I believe that it was removing soy products from my body.  That said, I am sure what worked for me isn't for everyone.  I do believe that if you suffer from food allergies that correcting it is possible in most cases. 
If you catch colds often.  Stop washing you hands so often.  Excessive sterilization weakens the immune system and that is especially true in the food chain.  The problems with obesity and type II diabetes were also mentioned in this discussion and that too is directly related to the industrialized "American" diet.  As the "food giants" push genetically modified chemically based poison around the world it will become pandemic.  The chemical additives in foods are behind much of the dietary problems that have seen steady growth since the mid 1950's.  I joined this site because I found much of Paul's ideas regarding permaculture compatible with mine  I am sure some of my theories he would disagree with and the same is true with the "paleo" diet.  If it works for you and you are healthy then it is right.... for you but maybe not for me.  I developed a challenge a few years ago that is stealing my health so I can no longer say that I am as fit as a 30 year old man but in 2007 I was 250 lbs. and 8% body fat and at 6'2" that was pretty good and definitely better than most(I was 58 years old).  That is not true now but I am hanging in there with as much vigor and attitude as I can muster.  I eat lots of animal protein, lots of fats especially tropical oils along with Paul favorite health food fat lard.  I plan to make it to at least 90 because I have so much more to accomplish.
Peace.

Dave Bennett wrote:
If you catch colds often.  Stop washing you hands so often.  Excessive sterilization weakens the immune system and that is especially true in the food chain.

And according to some Drs don't blow the nose... shallow it instead. It is better than an immunisation shot as it goes directly to the gut where a lot of the immunisation gets set up. So the kids that pick their nose and eat it are onto something... (yuck)  Just a built in response that happens to be correct.

For another yuck see below:
http://www.rense.com/general4/bac.htm

It makes me wonder what other non-diet things man used to put in their mouth that where needed for health in pre-western food times. (Paleo seems to have turned into this)

I've read most of the books and authors cited here, and imo the guy that has it right is doug graham (fruitarianism). i'm too weak willed to do it, but it's one of my long term life goals. i was sold on carnivorous paleo for a very long time but doug's arguments sold me.

george101 wrote:
I've read most of the books and authors cited here, and imo the guy that has it right is doug graham (fruitarianism). i'm too weak willed to do it, but it's one of my long term life goals. i was sold on carnivorous paleo for a very long time but doug's arguments sold me.

I am not going to alter my diet because someone wrote a book suggesting a diet that compared to farming resembles monoculture.  I haven't read Doug's book but I get the impression from the title that Doug suggests not eating animal products.  Fruit as the basis for a diet?  I would suggest reading this:
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional-diets/guts-and-grease

Fruit provides a diet of sugar right?  Is that it?  Fruit?  The southwest native people's that lived near areas with lots of agave plants all had lots of dental caries. 

Len wrote:
And according to some Drs don't blow the nose... shallow it instead. It is better than an immunisation shot as it goes directly to the gut where a lot of the immunisation gets set up. So the kids that pick their nose and eat it are onto something... (yuck)  Just a built in response that happens to be correct.

For another yuck see below:
http://www.rense.com/general4/bac.htm

It makes me wonder what other non-diet things man used to put in their mouth that where needed for health in pre-western food times. (Paleo seems to have turned into this)

I only blow my nose if I have an allergic reaction to something in the air.  I don't find it to be much of a problem but it happens on occasion.  Doing the "backwards" thing when your nose is plugged is OK with me.  It sounds disgusting but I have been doing that for my entire life and I never catch colds.  I have had  a flu virus once back in 83-84.  I can't really remember.  There is an article that I just posted the link on my other response.  Here it is: http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional-diets/guts-and-grease
I found the part about the eating contest particularly interesting from an immunity standpoint.  It is a similar argument I get with brainwashed people when I promote Raw Milk.  I usually wind up asking them if they think wild animals wash up before suckling their young. hahaha.  Most people don't realize that all mammals are born sterile and their first exposure to bacteria happen in the birth canal.  Breast feeding provides more bacteria from both parents when speaking of humans.  The sterility issue would be funny if it weren't so dangerous to children.  It causes more childhood illness than it prevents in my opinion.

Something I read recently tied the current "low fat" movement to the idea that chemicals found in fertilizers are retained in the fatty tissue of animals who are fed grains.

Dave Bennett wrote:
After reading through the entire thread I only noticed minimal discussion of a point that in my opinion is extremely important.  As Dr. Price pointed out in his book.  Geography matters.  The comment suggesting that in the "paleo" era adults did not consume milk (dairy).  I would point out that just isn't even true and even of northern Europeans. 

I think dairy isn't included in most paleo diets because paleolithic people did not have domestic animals except maybe dogs (known from about 12,000 years ago, during the Mesolithic, the Middle Stone Age).

"Paleo" refers to "Paleolithic" or "Old Stone Age."  The Old Stone Age was prior to domestication of animals and plants.

Paul and Jack Spirko talk about "lessons from the forest" in this podcast: podcast.

Jack gets into eating paleo.

I get a kick out of the fact that there is a Vegan and a Paleo topic going on now.

Truth is different strokes for different folks.

For example, a famous paleo guy, Robert Crayhorn. He died in his 40's from colon cancer. Blood Type A. He literally had less digestive power than someone without the A antibody in their system. Did it cause the cancer, I don't know but it sure as hell wasn't keeping his immunity up!

Another funny comment from someone I actually trust.

"Most Paleolithic proponents are living in a romanticized delusion. Almost all of most recent ancestors, just about all around the world, ate less protein than we do, not more. Most vegetables and fruits eaten by paleolithic dieters were originally loaded with phytotoxins that those terrible grain-drunk neolithic idiots were actually smart enough to hybridize out of the wild type strains. " - Dr. D'Adamo

I've been all over the map with food intake over the years. Just about every combination of food types and supplements. Some part of me always felt as little shitty. Last year I started looking into the paleo diet on a basic level. I cut out all the grains, anything with gluten, white potato, most of the sugar and dairy. In place of those things I eat more nuts and seeds, meat of all sorts ( not just the lean) and lot's of fresh veggies. I use bacon fat for pan frying instead of butter, which also helps keep the cast iron pan nice and slick. Of course there's more to it than that but I'm sure it's all been coverd in the above discussion.

Results: Within a couple weeks I noticed that my gut didn't feel heavy and bloated all the time. I had to make a new hole in my belt because my belly shrank despite the fact that I lost no weight. I have noticed that I have a more defined body now. A lot of that flabbyness went away. At 135 lbs, I don't need to lose weight. I just like it when that 135 has recognizable muscle tone rather than just an skinny flabby mass. Friends and family also noticed the difference in my form.

I don't feel like sitting on the couch after a big meal. I'm ready to go back to work outside. My energy is more consistent through the day and I never have the two o'clock crash any more. I feel better mentally as well. No more irritable moments when blood sugar is low. I sleep more soundly and consistently. I haven't felt this good since I was in my teens.

So yeah... I'm 90% paleo 90% of the time and I've never felt better. My advice to anyone considering the paleo path is this: Start by replacing the carbs on your plate with a little more meat and a lot more veg. Eat as much as you want. Don't feel guilty. It takes a little while to get used to the idea that eating can be awesome without that other junk. If you keep up with it for a month you'll likely notice that you've lost the love for carbs. I just don't look at pastry the same anymore. It's like little evil sponges of sick covered with concentrated gelatinous sick. Doesn't even seem like food anymore.
I'll admit that from time to time (once every couple months) I crave and then consume something completely non-paleo. I always feel worse for having done so. but hey... sometimes you gotta suffer through a piece of birthday cake.

Leila Rich wrote:I've come across quite a few references on these forums and have a couple of questions.
Over here, Weston A. Price and Sally Fallon are the names you hear in the permaculture world regarding diet.
To me, it seems that while Paleo/Price have many similarities, they differ in some pretty major ways, especially around eating animal fat and dairy products.
Are people referring to 'Paleo' as a sort of shorthand for 'what I eat', or to 'The Paleo Diet'?
Are people taking things that suit them from various ways of eating? For example, I don't like eating the amount of animal products most Weston A Price people seem to consume, but I love dairy products.
I've always presumed that Weston A Price and permaculture were kind of intertwined, but maybe it's a  New Zealand thing...
I hope this post isn't too garbled, and please feel free to go 'off topic', since there really isn't one in the end!

this pretty much sums it up: archaelogical evidence shows that an absurdly high amount of calories has come from starches since the agricultural evolution, and foraged plants before that.

some hunting was done, but, like other primates such as chimpanzees, hunted game was a super small percentage of consumed calories, and consuming game every day or maybe even every week would be almost unheard of.

the paleolithic diet was mostly composed of foraged leaves, berries, nuts, seeds, roots, fruit, and tree bark.

thats what facts and evidence points to, whereas the popular "paleo" stuff is basicaly pure hypothesis or make-believe. one person called it "paleo poetry" somewhat saying that it was basically all a story/narritive that sounds good, but isnt true.

Lolly Knowles wrote:Something I read recently tied the current "low fat" movement to the idea that chemicals found in fertilizers are retained in the fatty tissue of animals who are fed grains.

Which is why it is recommended that you eat organic free range animals - grass fed, grass finished - and if you can't afford that you should choose the lean pieces and add (healthy - no soy, canola etc.) vegetable fat to your food.

I have been paleo on and of for about a year. When I a strictly paleo I have better skin, less joint pain, less back pain, less depression symptoms and less seasonal allergies (Jack Spircko turned me on to that idea). Unfortunately the amount of eggs and nuts I was eating made my eczema go totally crazy and at one point last year the skin was falling of my fingers, leaving me with oozing patches with no skin that would coagulate (sorry for TMI).

Truth is that the paleo diet is much more varied than Pinterest will have you think. When you don't have domesticated animals you don't eat 2-4 eggs a day - you eat eggs when you find a nest. Paleolithic people did eat tubers - when they could find them, and recent research also shows that they ate grains - but walk into your grass field and find wheat, rye or barley - if you find any they are few and far between - so the amount they ate would be comparable to the pumpkin seeds I would sprinkle on my salad. Their diet consisted of somewhere around 40 different species of greens a day and 200 different in a year. I can't find 40 different veggies in my veggie-section at the supermarket nor at the farmers market, let alone 40 different species!

I don't think that gluten is inherently bad, nor milk or soy or corn - but the amount that is consumed in the Standard Western Diet IS, and the processing IS.

Chris Kresser calls all these diets "an ancestral view on diets" and recommend that you try to find what suits you" he suggest you try 30 days of paleo, if that isn't good enough to make your symptoms go away then try low fodmaps or AIP or SCD/GAPS. Most people will feel great after 30 days of paleo and some might try to reintroduce dairy and even grains at some point and this their diet will be more like a WAPF kind of diet. Chris Kresser also suggest that a diet which is primarily based on veggies, but with mussels twice a week and offal once a week would be healthier than a diet with loads of muscle meat as many on the paleo diet actually consume. The Wahls protocol is also steering in that direction only allowing 125g (4oz) of meat or day. The China study that the vegans tend to hold up as proof for their diet choices would suggest the same thing - the Chinese are not vegan, but only eat very very little but very very nutrient dense meat (there is a vast difference between eating a little and and eating no meat... any vegan would agree to that).

But then there is the whole case of us having digestive tracts that are completely destroyed - eating unbalanced diets for years and years, multiple treatments with antibiotics a year for every child, and now the latest trend of treating the wheat with RoundUp prior to harvest... our gut biome is wrecked and this is the reason many of us don't tolerate neither grains nor dairy at all - leaky gut, metabolic diseases etc. I cannot eat nuts, fruit, legumes or eggs currently without provoking my allergies and thus eating primarily vegetarian would not be very varied. Focus for me is to heal my gut. Maybe someday I can eat a little whole grain, presprouted, sourdoughrisen bread once in a while - I sure hope so. But right now it feeds my carb addiction and messes with my brain, so I choose not to. I personally don't think veganism is very healthy (and no the China study is not proof of anything close to that), I have not met a single one who doesn't rely on heavy supplementation and many still have deficiencies. But I do believe that vegetarians can be very healthy if they tolerate dairy, eggs and nuts (and keep their grain consumption to a minimum -in my experience I eat far more veggies than most vegetarians). It really is all about finding your sweet spot - where you are the healthiest you that you can be.

He was determined to prove that crooked teeth, narrow jaws, TB, and clubbed feet were not hereditary - he has many photos of families with children born before and after the road or port came to their village and gave them access to western foods. The children born before the road are very different looking than the children born after - and presumably they both have similar genes to their parents,  just the diet of the parents and children that has changed dramatically, with dramatic physical results in the offspring.

I quite literally was moved to tears while looking at the photos of Seminole people in Florida. They were so beautiful for so many generations, and ONE GENERATION of eating a vitamin depleted diet completely changed their facial structure and sent their health into a steep downward spiral.

I was thinking about this today. My brother and I ate the same diet growing up. He has a nice wide jaw/pallet, and perfectly straight teeth, and never needed braces. My mom never even needed her wisdom teeth out, her jaw was wide enough--and she has beautifully straight teeth. My dad, however, has crooked teeth, and I inherited that. My "fang" teeth came in above the rest of my teeth, giving me an awesome vampire smile if I smiled just right (I loved it!). My parents didn't want me disadvantaged by crooked teeth--they wanted me to be able to easily chew my food and to not fear smiling, and not be discriminated against because of my teeth. So I had 8 baby teeth removed, 2 adult teeth, retainers and braces. The works. Now my teeth are straight, but I have periodontal issues from my teeth having shifted so much that it caused bone loss.

If my family is any indication, genetics DO play a roll in the development of a healthy jaw and teeth.

Another case study is my husband, who ate a far worse diet growing up than I did (my parents didn't buy processed food, so most everything was whole food or bread. I ate the basic food pyramid, as did my brother. My husband ate mostly processed food and lots of sugary KoolAid). My husband never needed his wisdom teeth out. His teeth are perfectly straight. His parents and sister's teeth are also nice and straight.   While it's nice to think that diet is the only variable, I don't think it is.

My son is just now getting his adult teeth. His baby teeth were always close together, and his front two teeth are coming in decidedly crooked. We did all the things we were supposed to--gave him lots of carrots and apples and stuff to chew on, lots of bone broth, ate a Primal/Weston Price diet, etc. I'm not sure if there's anything else we can do. Thankfully, he thinks his teeth are cute. I hope they don't turn out so crooked that we have to decide between the downfalls of crooked teeth (cavity formation, misaligned bite, appearance, etc) and the downfalls of orthodontia (cost, annoyance of having teeth pulled/braces and a lifetime of retainer wearing, and bone loss).

Maybe the paleo/Weston Price diet helps with preventing crooked teeth, but without a large study with limited variables, I wouldn't think that a paleo diet will protect your kids from crooked teeth.