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Rocket Stove Kiln

Michael Newby

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posted 5 years ago

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So this is really a call to action... before leaving the lab Paul and I were talking about random things and one of tho see was my quick mention of a RS kiln. There is quite a bit of decent clay on Paul's land which could be fired into some decent ceramic. They could make tiles to inlay into cob benches for wear surfaces, shingles for buildings, etc.

It looks like the rocket stove innovators event is going to be in October - plenty of time to refine some designs for innovators to play with. Who knows, with the major incentive Paul's given me I might be able to go to the innovators event and try to make it myself!

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kadence blevins

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posted 5 years ago

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here is a thought... RMH barrel and burn feed etc.. instead of piping into a bench/mass lay it around with just gravel inside and cob the outside, build an oven shape big over the piping part and cob it in, make a nice door for it.

actually just getting a regular woodstove top oven (like so: http://s173.photobucket.com/user/redhottfarmer/media/c90d_1.jpg.html ) and have it set on top of the barrel. seriously the crazy temps the barrel gets to I cant imagine a simpler way to do it.
me and my sisters used to make campfires and i would (as the eldest) kiln our hand done items from the local clay in cement blocks put up together with the hot fire built around it.

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Jay C. White Cloud

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posted 5 years ago

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Hi Michael,

This has come up several times on the forum that a quick search should reveal. The challenge with RMH being employed as a kiln itself is one (the kiln) is a true "furnace" while the other (the RMH) is just that...a heating device. Kilns require mass quantities of fuel, and must burn at even constant temperatures in the 1100 to 1300 °C (~2000 to 2300 °F ) preferably for good stoneware, and this must go on for 24 to 48 hours...then a controlled cool down...and this doesn't even cover "bisking" pre fires and "glaze firings," if one wishes finishing work...RMH can not function at these temperatures for that length of time without a series overhaul in material matrix and design...

The two devices (kiln vs RMH) are vastly different in nature. If interested, the closest thing to a RMH (actually very similar...but giant in size) is the Japanese 穴窯 "anagama kiln" (mountain style kilns) or the 登り窯 "Noborikama" (Climbing Kiln.) When these fire the sound like a dragon is about to eat the entire mountain. Some rumble so loudly, that it is easy to understand why potters think (at least us old ones...

) that they have a 霊 "Rei" or spirit/soul all of there own.

Good Luck and love to see what you learn and discover on this posted here...

Regards,

j

William Bronson

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posted 5 years ago

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Flip and John Anderson have built several rocket kilns with the simplest of materials.

http://www.handprintpress.com/authors/how-to-make-a-rocket-powered-kiln-of-clay-and-sawdust/

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Jay C. White Cloud

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Kiko Denzer wrote on Hand Print press wrote:...The first request required building a kiln to fire stove parts, and this is what we’re sharing with you here: a two burner rocket-powered kiln capable of reaching 1,000° Celsius — and made of local clay, sawdust, and wood ash...

That has some exciting prospects, and would (if sustained evenly) fire Micaceous Clays for useful pottery. The challenge I have found over the years with actually building "rocket kilns" that are more "rocket" than just "kiln" is that little challenge of "sustained temperature" for 30 hours or longer. I haven't found one yet that achieves this for complete vitrification accept in the low fire clay bodies like Micaceous Clay (mica clay.) It will be exciting to see verified (checked by cone scale or high range thermometer) ceramics coming out of a "rocket hybrid kiln." If this can go on to function for bisking and glazing without falling apart too much from the high temps, that would be really great to see...I think the trick will be good design, more mass, and insulation. With that, something should work...

William Bronson

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Some of the best stuff from the Andersons is their collection of captioned photos,I think there is a link on the Hand Print page.
At least one series does describe firing overnight, requiring baby sitting.
The firings do seem unrefined, they check the peices by sound, if it sounds fired(clinks) it is fired.
I am impressed by their use of available matiirials. Even the kilns tend to incorporate the most basic sort of clay L rockets, multiples at once, rather than one bigger rocket made of materials that might as well be rainbw unicorn farts for most people.

I don't know if their designs would work for what the Lab needs, but they are certainly cheap enough to to try.

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Miles Flansburg

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Just looking around on youtube and found a couple of films might help spark some ideas.

Maybe Phil Rogers would be a good "innovator" to ask about making a kiln with rocket heat?

Phils website with contact info.

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William Bronson

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No link to the photos on the hand print site so here it is:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Jonnygms

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allen lumley

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- I assumed that this was the correct set of slides for the Rocket -kiln Link below :

https://picasaweb.google.com/Jonnygms/RocketStoveKiln#slideshow/5941839114235346546

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William Bronson

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Spot on! Thanks Al!

@Michael Newby, do any of these links help?

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Michael Newby

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William Bronson wrote:
@Michael Newby, do any of these links help?

Yes! Thank you to everyone for all the inspiration. Looks like the main thing that needs to be addressed for high quality firings is to be able to maintain a steadier temp than basic rocket stoves achieve.

William Bronson

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Cools.
I find myself intrigued by the prospect of low quality firings. Ash glazed water pipes, cups , plates, crocks, tiles,bricks, etc. Even at low quality, the ability to make them from on hand materials ins meaningful.

I like the idea of an earth insulated kiln marching up a hillside, with rockets and peepholes ported into the sides, a hoop tunnel along the top, the final exhaust passing through the floor of a green house or something. I love the boostrappyness of firing bricks in a small kiln, in order to build a bigger kiln that you can fire still more bricks or even bigger kiln/oven/forge components.
All from clay. Beats the plastic printers in so many ways...

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William Bronson

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Here is a narrated video from Flip and John.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=FL7KDWM_in4q0UjXYN5wksKA

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Miles Flansburg

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I see mention of a kiln being built at the lab. Did it work ? How about an update?

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Steve Fairbairn

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Ernie's kiln

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Steve Fairbairn

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Ernie's Kiln

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Michael Newby

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Did anything get fired in the kiln?

If so please tell me you got some pictures of those, too.

Steve Fairbairn

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Im not sure if they have fired anything yet, I was there for the first firing, worked like a charm, but then the event ended and it was just completed.

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Miles Flansburg

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Thanks Steve !! Maybe Ernie will pop in and explain it to us ?

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Destiny Hagest

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posted 4 years ago

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Just a heads up everyone - this is something you'll get to work with as part of the AT course this summer!

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F Styles

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posted 4 years ago

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is anyone going to update this thread on how the Kiln worked? temps... anything fired, fail, succeed?

Rocket Mag evolution timeline: http://www.permies.com/t/52316/rocket-stoves/Rocket-stove-heats-water-pics

Rocket Mag Thread: http://www.permies.com/t/54074/rocket-stoves/Rocket-Mag-heater-Rocket-Mag

F Styles

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posted 4 years ago

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i think a kiln is possible and may need an oversized batch and core maybe as large as 12'' or larger and needs to be closely monitored and operated to get the desired heat up, sustained heat and cool down. i think an oversized core with a short heat riser with an superior insulated brick bell sitting on top of the riser that will be the kiln that the clay gets baked in. this should work.

Rocket Mag evolution timeline: http://www.permies.com/t/52316/rocket-stoves/Rocket-stove-heats-water-pics

Rocket Mag Thread: http://www.permies.com/t/54074/rocket-stoves/Rocket-Mag-heater-Rocket-Mag

Charles Schiavone

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posted 4 years ago

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I've been working to wrap my head around wood fired earthenware for a while now. thought exercises for 'some day' which is now apparently. I'm on to my 4th rocket and let me say, Jon's efforts inEast Timor are the key.
https://picasaweb.google.com/Jonnygms/RocketStoveKiln#slideshow/5941839114235346546

these folks are firing bricks. mass producing rocket stove cores from the look of it. sweet ones. but it's the kiln that holds my attention.
bigger core, sure
they complained of a hotter back and top, some of that is dampering, stacking, and some is first firing. a kiln needs a while to settle in and the fire lighter needs to learn the kilns language. I'll bet they fire sweet and even now.
i'm curious if they ever fire regular glaze ware in it.
I can't seem to find a way to contact the Jon who's photo link it is except commenting on the pictures

I also wonder about moving the rockets further away from the chimney (towards the door)
lovely

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Blendi Kraja

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posted 4 years ago

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Ernie and Erica are busy somewhere with no web access. That's the last Kickstarter message of them when Erica said to expect total radio silence, I don't remember the break of it. Just to let you know.

Charles Schiavone

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If you look into what is happening in East Timor,
https://picasaweb.google.com/Jonnygms/RocketStoveKiln#

They are getting 1002 C which is plenty for earthenware. The way I'm seeing it, higher temperatures are possible with intention. Commercial bricks instead of earthen ones should guarantee a higher temp.

As for glazes at those temps, on earthenware, Jonathan Garratt has been firing glazed ware in updraft bottle kiln for quite some time. His work is sweet. (Searched results)

I have 2 non-working electric kilns in my shop right now. I propose to fire one with a rocket stove as it's sole heat source. With the heat coming into it through the floor on one side and out the wall on the opposite side, I'll wager it's possible. The channels where the old, and broken, electric coils will need to be filled to prevent excess drag. I have a bunch of half shelves which I can halve again allowing 1/4 of the floor space for the heat to have direct access to the top. It will have no choice but to cross-draft to the low chimney outlet. The rocket components will be made from local clay and sawdust. I've done a little testing and have found the yellow clay that I cob with, and have in plenty, is really high in iron, gets brittle, crumbly and turns a rich red at 1000 C/1900 F. Deeper layers of blue clay are much paler and harder at the same temp.

Time will tell. We are going to get more clay tomorrow.

1002-C.jpg

Timor-kiln.jpg

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Charles Schiavone

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posted 4 years ago

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ok, so it's not being fired with a rocket stove. not yet anyways.
the pictures are of the wood kiln I built yesterday. it is made of 3 electric kiln bodies and bricks with about 70 fire brick and 14 cinderblock.
I still need to make chimneys for it but that won't take too long.
with this, I'll be able to move ahead firing out the riser tubes and bricks.
the grand experiment moves forward

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Matthew Goheen

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posted 4 years ago

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Would setting up the kiln as a heat bell, with the exhaust coming out as low as, or a little bit lower than the hot rocket exhaust coming in, and no openings/all openings above the inlet sealed, allow higher temps to be achieved in the kiln interior?

Glenn Herbert

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Yes, that's what Charles Schiavone is planning to do. It would be interesting to hear if he has made progress on the construction.

Matthew Goheen

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Thanks Glenn... I must have missed that in the description.

Charles Schiavone

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things have been on hold for a bit here
most likely this year I'll be back out and working on the kiln
I will most certainly keep y'all updated
c

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Miles Flansburg

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posted 3 years ago

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Another video from the guy at primitive technology. He is getting closer to the rocket feed. I am wondering if the burn tunnel should be longer ? What other modifications could be made to make it better?

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Glenn Herbert

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posted 3 years ago

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I have built a dozen or more iterations of kilns very much like this one. I have found that a burn tunnel about 4+ feet long overall (including the part beneath the ware chamber), 16" wide and 14-16" high works best, allowing in good conditions for hard earthenware or sometimes soft stoneware firing. I have not used the grate bars, but found that with the right progression of firewood sizes I can get logs to mostly burn up before collapsing in a heap of coals. If only small wood is used, they collapse and smother the coals below, and build up a mass which has to be raked out.

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