How can I move my feral hive to a bee box?

I am hoping to enlist some help from some experienced bee keepers. For the last 12 years my wife and I have had a feral hive on our property servicing our homestead. It has been a strong hive and they have done a great job. But a few days ago the tree in which they have made their hive broke open and the hive is exposed. See picture below.

For years my wife and I have toyed with the idea of capturing one of the swarms and starting a bee box. It just was lower on the priority list. Well, it just moved way up the priority list. In our research we also have decided on a Warre hive. Any suggestions on how we can move the hive to a Warre hive? We haven't purchased the Warre hive yet, but plan to ASAP.

Some other information:

We are in zone 9 (Northern CA - Near Auburn, CA)
The daily temps are in the mid 80's right now
The night time temps are in the mid 50's
We still have a good amount of nectar sources flowing - although winding down
We have no idea if the queen has survived
It looks like there are bees still trying to work the hive, although I do see a lot of empty comb

Some other questions:
What is the likely hood this hive will swarm? ie should we focus on trying to capture a swarm?
If the hive doesn't swarm, can we entice the hive to move to our Warre hive? What are our options?
If the weather holds for a couple of week's how long do you think we have until the hive collapses?

As always any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Ok time to go from bee haver to beekeeper. This is a advanced type of rescue called a cut out. Below is a video of me teaching how to do a basic cutout.



I would go to Mann Lake in Woodland, Ca to get the hive parts. They don't have warre but for your first cut out a warre is tough. If you go foundation-less with a 8 frame Langstroth box it will be close in size to the warre and then you could add a quilted top cover. If using warre zip ties work well to attach the comb.

What is the likely hood this hive will swarm? ie should we focus on trying to capture a swarm?
• Hive may abscond meaning they leave altogether but this late in the season they may try and stick around. With so much exposure it is tough for them to protect from robber bees, yellow jackets, ants, rain and cold.
If the hive doesn't swarm, can we entice the hive to move to our Warre hive? What are our options?
• If you take out the baby bees, and all the comb the bees will follow. You could also try to smoke them up but bees are reluctant to leave established comb.
If the weather holds for a couple of week's how long do you think we have until the hive collapses?
• Rescue as soon as possible as every day any brood they can not keep at about 95 degrees will die, if they are not already at some point they may come under attack and that will cause them to increase there defensiveness.

I have done many of these types of removals. You can post on craigslist or search the internet to see if there is anyone who offers "live bee removal" in your area. You could pay a little to have a local expert help you. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Thanks Tomas! I wonder if using a modified Warre hive to start with and then add normal Warre hive boxes in the spring would be a good approach. I expect that I could use the modified Warre frames like you show in the video you attached. Next fall I could remove the modified Warre frames and convert the operation to a normal Warre hive. Does that sound like a good approach or is my thinking flawed? Thanks again

Once the colony is saved you can figure it out from there. The 8 frame langstroth is about the same width as a warre just deeper. I have had some success with getting the bees to build into a standard warre box in the spring with a good nectar flow. Main goal at this point is to save the colony and the good local genetics. Check out the photo below of the frakenhive.

Instgram photo of frakenhive

Ah.....This is one of times where a picture is worth a thousand words. I was having a hard time picturing how that would work. Now I do.

Brian,
As an experienced keeper using Langstroths, Top Bars, and Warres, I have to strongly agree with Tomas. Your first objective is to save the colony. Cut outs are sometimes difficult at best. Do it with a Langstroth because instructions are far easier to find and follow. Another idea you might consider is enclosing the existing stump. A long box made out of plywood, square enough to fit up over and slid down the stump. Drill an entrance or 2 in the face of the plywood box. Stuff burlap or such into the bottom of the box around the stump at the bottom of the box to enclose it. Voilà! homemade feral bee hive.

Ernie Schmidt wrote:Another idea you might consider is enclosing the existing stump. A long box made out of plywood, square enough to fit up over and slid down the stump. Drill an entrance or 2 in the face of the plywood box. Stuff burlap or such into the bottom of the box around the stump at the bottom of the box to enclose it. Voilà! homemade feral bee hive.

I was thinking the same thing, but by nailing 2X4s or 1x8s onto the stump to re-enclose it, and waxing or caulking to close up the gaps. Perhaps cutting the top of the stump off horizontal as a platform for adding a warre to the top next spring to see if they could be enticed up.

Thanks Ernie and Joseph!

That is a fantastic idea. I think that should work good as a temp hive over the winter. The bee's are still there, but I can tell they are getting some what agitated. I think there is a lot of robbing going on from yellow jackets. We still have nectar flow from a number of different sources, so hopefully they can build up some stores for winter.

I did get a feeder with the new hive (should arrive on Wednesday). I am thinking about setting up the new hive next to the natural hive and I will setup the feeder (feeds from the top of the new hive). I am also thinking about putting some lemongrass essential oil to see if i can entice them into the new hive. Fingers crossed. I sure hope we can get the bee's through the winter.

go to j.p. the beeman and watch him do cutouts from trees and buildings on utube videos .

Hi Brian,
nice picture of your broken bee home. Hope they are still alive and protected. Essential oil will not entice the bees to move into your new hive. Early in the season (March probably) on a nice warm day, get in there and cut a piece of comb that has brood on it. Put that into your new hive. Then try to locate the queen - you will most likely need help for that. Move the queen on that piece of comb in your new box, set close to the trunk. If you cannot find the queen, move as many pieces of comb as you can out of the trunk. The rest of the bees (foragers included) will join the queen in the new box; that might take a while so be patient and leave the hive in place until the next day at least. See the video above to arrange your pieces of comb on the new frames temporarily. Get a experienced beekeeper to have a look after a few days to make sure things are going okay or post pix here. The most important is to get the queen in that new box.

Thanks Jean-Jacques! The bee's absconded the day before I got my bee box I am hoping that they found a safe place to put a hive in. For a couple of weeks after they absconded I noticed a fair amount of bees around (could have been from another hive close by). I still had a number of plants that were providing nectar so I hope they got enough reserves built up.

Anyways, I have my Warre Hive built and ready to go. I did save a fair amount of old bee comb and will place in the hive come spring. I am going to apply two strategies to try and get our hive populated. I will place the old comb in the hive and hope to lure them in. And I am going to reach out to local bee groups and see if I can help with a swarm collection and bring them home. If anyone knows of a good contact in Placer County in Northern California a PM would be appreciated

I am really bummed that our wild hive is gone. The bee's were always very productive and seemed to have great temperament.

I'd save some old comb and buy some lemon grass oil and use your hive for a swarm trap. Maybe build a few extra boxes for more traps. I don't plan to ever buy bees again. Hive traps and just hiving swarms is a lot more fun. Healthier bees too. Here anyway. Most of my swarms have been truly feral, I believe.

Brian,
so sorry about your bees; it is sad to see them go but you will get others! You might want to check your local cooperative extension and ask if they have people calling for bee/swarm removal. Catching a swarm and move it in your warre is not difficult but you have to prepare ahead of time. It is best to catch swarms early in the season - maybe April for you, not sure - to give them time to build up their new home before winter so be ready in March if you can. Trapping swarms is pretty unreliable but still fun to try and you don't need to use your hive as a trap, just make a box out any clean scrap wood you have. It's a good idea to save some brood comb for either method but watch for wax moth until you are ready (maybe you can save a few pieces in your freezer).
Good luck!

First of all, we aren't master beekeepers but not novices.  We've kept bees and my husband was the bee guy during a 9 month Nation Guard agriculture mission in Afghanistan where he worked closely with Afghan bee experts, managed the hives on the FOB and had a fairly large budget to provide infrastructure and instruction to help the local people maximize the effectiveness of their beekeeping endeavors.

We currently have a fairly new hive in the power cord cavity of our RV.  We've carefully accessed and assessed it from inside.  The new hive is ready and we'll do the transfer in the next couple of nights.  The plan is to locate the queen and transfer her along with a brood comb to the new hive along with as many workers as possible, then transfer any other brood comb and honey comb, tying them in to foundationless frames.

We do realize that the queen can be elusive, but feel confident that we have a good chance of getting this done.  Will use a queen excluder to up the chances that the hive will carry on.  The hive is young and fresh.

If anyone has done anything similar we'd welcome input.

Well, we got it done (see my previous post).  We managed to relocate the bees from our rv to a hive.  The biggest takeaway would be "easier said than done." Our bee vac turned out to be too small to get them all when they were home for the night.  We tried again the next morning after most of the workers were out foraging and transferred the mob to a prepared hive.  I have no idea why we didn't use the queen excluder (adhd on my part?) but about 36 hours later the whole bunch was in a tree.  After about 3 hours work I was convinced I had the queen, and I did.  They are busy, busy now but our concern is that they don't have much in the way for forage in the dog days of the southern plains.  There are several irrigated alfalfa fields with a mile or so and they seem to be headed that direction.  I provided sugar syrup but they have completely ignored it.  Does anyone have any suggestions as to attractants added to the syrup (we used anise.)  Any other ideas of how to supplement them until the fall wildflowers bloom, about 6 weeks from now if we get rain.  Thanks for any help y'all can give.

Try adding a little peppermint oil to their sugar water. Please don't be tempted to give them honey from an outside source because that might spread diseases.

You could also plant some buckwheat. It grows very fast & will have flowers in a few weeks. Bees love buckwheat.

I provided sugar syrup but they have completely ignored it.

I have been without bees for a few years. I would think that if they are ignoring your sugar syrup, then they have found a source of nectar for now. As they are a new colony, I might keep the syrup available just in case.

We've had a really tough time this year with grasshoppers.  Normally we would have lots of cowpen daisies which they seem to like.  We do have a native buckwheat, eriogonum multiflorum which they may be able to utilize.  I may try some cultivated buckwheat if I can figure out how to keep the hoppers off and get it to germinate in the heat and dry.  I also have quite a bit of Maxmillian Sunflower and Plains Sunflower that should bloom soon, again if the hoppers will lay off.  I don't know whatever happened to NoloBait, but it was a lifesaver.

Sounds like you're on the right track. I do agree with Joylynn that if the bees aren't taking the sugar water they have found a source of nectar. That is a very good thing!!! About one more month of summer dearth & the fall plants will kick in. Hopefully the bees will be able to make enough honey to get them through winter.

Oklahoma re-hiving update.  We have a hive with a window and have been able to observe our relocated swarm.  We are seeing brood, polled and nectar!  The sugar syrup dilemma is apparently solved as I have observed them coming and going in the direction of the alfalfa and cotton.  Any thoughts on whether they'll be able to store enough food to get them through the winter.  It comes in usually early December and lasts through February.  Flowers start to bloom by the first of March.  Thanks everyone for your advice and support.

Too many unknown variables to be sure but I'd give them a 50/50 chance to make enough honey to get them through winter. If the queen is a good layer & the pollen & nectar sources stay strong & the weather cooperates it's likely they will. When all the pieces come together it's amazing how fast they can produce.

Judy Bowman wrote:Any thoughts on whether they'll be able to store enough food to get them through the winter.  It comes in usually early December and lasts through February.  Flowers start to bloom by the first of March.  Thanks everyone for your advice and support.

Good job!

As for winter survival, some sugar placed on top the frames after the weather turns cold can get hives through winter. Take a standard bag of sugar and moisten it in a flat pan (just damp, not wet). Then let it sit and dry again, it will turn into a conveniently hard sheet of sugar. Lay that on top the frames over the winter. This works for me in N Illinois which has a much colder and longer winter.

Can't comment specifically on Oklahoma winters; my impression is short but fierce, with severe temperature swings and wind. I'd suggest protecting the hive from the wind, putting it in a shed or on the lee side of a building, with some sheets of foam insulation on top.

I use Beesource.com to get specific state-level advice.

I also did a cut out this week, from a tree that fell on a friends house. No idea if I even got the queen, or if they will have time to build up before winter. Hope so. Plan today to go pick up the hive.

That sounds like good do-able advice.  I hope you caught your queen.  I'd forgotten how much I love bees.  I ran across a little book that I acquired somewhere titled "Bees and Beekeeping" by Irmgard Deimer published in London in 1988.  I learned more in 30 minutes with this book than in many hours on the internet.  Many fascinating and amazing things that I didn't know about bees.  Gotta love them.

Picked them up yesterday after hiving them several days prior. From their behavior I think I got the queen. Do not plan to investigate inside the hive for at least a few weeks. Give the poor things time to adapt to their new home. If no signs of a queen will combine them with another hive.

The tree had fallen on a friend's house in a windstorm. The section of log was lying on his lawn when I got there a few weeks after the tree service cleared up the tree from the house. They didn't want to mess with bees!

I used a chainsaw to split the log in halves and then cut out the comb and used rubber bands and string to fasten the comb into the frames. It was 92 degrees and me wearing both chain-sawing gear and beekeeping gear! Then I set the new hive up in the same spot where the log had been and gave them a few days to get used to it. When I got there yesterday there were no longer large clumps of bees hanging outside the hive or in the chunks of logs. They were using the entrance and looked like a normal hive.

I picked the whole thing up and put it in my car and drove it home. Set them up next to my garden where I keep a few other hives.

An update.  My lovely little hive of feral bees, that I thought had settled in happily, have absconded.  We'll chalk it up to learning and try again in the spring.

Judy Bowman wrote:An update.  My lovely little hive of feral bees, that I thought had settled in happily, have absconded.  We'll chalk it up to learning and try again in the spring.

Did you identify the queen?  If a queen is not present the bees might go off to find the queen.

For some unknown reason the bees might have not liked their living conditions and went on search for a better location.

A better location might be the neighbors flower garden.

Or ants might have envaded the hive causing the bees to leave.

Lots of reason behind the bees leaving.

Judy Bowman wrote:An update.  My lovely little hive of feral bees, that I thought had settled in happily, have absconded.  We'll chalk it up to learning and try again in the spring.

These things happen. They are wild animals with their own minds. I lost several hives this year, 2 became queenless, one I have no clear idea and hope they simply absconded.

Best luck next year. Since there are bees in the area, a few swarm traps might catch you bees next spring.