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New WhiteHouse.gov Petition for Permaculture Needs 150 signatures to go public

 
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See link Below. I created this Petition not to be politically sided. However, it does use the word "conservative" in its title. That is used solely for attention of the current administration. Please join me in an effort to get the word out about permaculture, no matter what your political affiliation is. Please read the description in the petition. There is nothing politically biased in its content, only some "conservative" play on words to help get attention. Forward this link to your friends and family and ask them to get the word out please.

The content of the petition is solely for the government to provide minimal aid for folks to get their permaculture journey started. Its actually more of a liberal idea.

Link:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/creation-conservative-permaculture-research-institute

Ray Cecil
 
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I'd sign it (even though I don't think this administration is likely to spend any money on anything other than its already-stated priorities; nor do I think this administration cares one bit about "rural" culture or pursuits now that the election has been won) but I don't trust the partisan tone of the name. Why "Conservative"? You said it's only to get the attention of the current admin, but might putting "conservative" in the title imbue certain political expectations if it does get funding? And might it mark such an organization for funding cuts when the House flips back to blue at the mid-terms?

I wonder whether a bipartisan/neutral name would actually make it stronger and more resilient long-term. And in order to gain the attention of the current administration, maybe you could spin it in other ways that make it sound appealing to conservative values without actually putting a partisan designation in the name. Bringing up things like "emergency preparedness," "agricultural traditions," (or "rural traditions") or "food security" could be those dog-whistle terms the current admin would appreciate, but will keep it from seeming like a partisan organization. Just some suggestions! I'd like to see it succeed, since I think it's imperative that we switch over from corporate monoculture (so destructive!!) to more sustainable growing methods.
 
Ray Cecil
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Libbie Hawker wrote:I'd sign it (even though I don't think this administration is likely to spend any money on anything other than its already-stated priorities; nor do I think this administration cares one bit about "rural" culture or pursuits now that the election has been won) but I don't trust the partisan tone of the name. Why "Conservative"? You said it's only to get the attention of the current admin, but might putting "conservative" in the title imbue certain political expectations if it does get funding? And might it mark such an organization for funding cuts when the House flips back to blue at the mid-terms?

I wonder whether a bipartisan/neutral name would actually make it stronger and more resilient long-term. And in order to gain the attention of the current administration, maybe you could spin it in other ways that make it sound appealing to conservative values without actually putting a partisan designation in the name. Bringing up things like "emergency preparedness," "agricultural traditions," (or "rural traditions") or "food security" could be those dog-whistle terms the current admin would appreciate, but will keep it from seeming like a partisan organization. Just some suggestions! I'd like to see it succeed, since I think it's imperative that we switch over from corporate monoculture (so destructive!!) to more sustainable growing methods.



Thank you for the opinion. I do not wish for this to become political. We can all agree that permaculture should be a bi-partisan or non-partisan issue. It deals with food, culture, and other basic human needs. I already stated why I put "conservative" in there. If you don't like that, you may start your own petition. Once the petition is submitted, you cannot edit it. So it is what it is. Thank you, and please consider voting it up.
 
pollinator
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I think permaculture is a great expression of "conservative values" that self-described "conservatives" in power have completely forgotten or turned against. I think this petition is a great way to utilize this cognitive dissonance in people who remember what the c-word meant 50 years ago. I am a progressive turned libertarian by experience working in the federal government, so I can't claim any purity or avoidance of contradiction in my values, but this petition is great idea.
 
Ray Cecil
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Ben Zumeta wrote:I think permaculture is a great expression of "conservative values" that self-described "conservatives" in power have completely forgotten or turned against. I think this petition is a great way to utilize this cognitive dissonance in people who remember what the c-word meant 50 years ago. I am a progressive turned libertarian by experience working in the federal government, so I can't claim any purity or avoidance of contradiction in my values, but this petition is great idea.



Thank you. I have similar views. Both right and left and center views. I won't go into specifics. I would appreciate your vote! Thank you.
 
master steward
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I signed the petition but when I go back in through the link it says only one person has signed it so far.  Did I do something wrong?  I did verify my signature by email.
 
Ray Cecil
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Mike Jay wrote:I signed the petition but when I go back in through the link it says only one person has signed it so far.  Did I do something wrong?  I did verify my signature by email.



I am not sure. It may take it awhile to refresh. Or maybe it doesn't count them until you get the required 150 votes to go live on the whitehouse.gov website.

Thanks Mike!
 
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I found out when I was a Safety Coordinator for the railroad, in order to accomplish something you must speak in their terms which is money. Where is the money going to come from for this; the US Farm Bill?
 
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I signed it.  Besides the Farm Bill I think another good source of money could be Homeland Security.  I recall hearing that a main theme of Homeland Security is to teach, train and encourage our citizenry to be resilient.  What is more resilient than Permaculture?
 
master pollinator
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"Community Resilience"
 
Travis Johnson
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I won't sign it as I do not think it is a good idea.

We already have Paul Wheaton Labs doing an excellent job, as well as thousands of others in smaller form, out there who are promoting the virtues of permiculture far better then a government entity ever could. In the private sector, where ideas are driven by real world data and not the whims of politics, is where change truly happens.

I am deeply engrossed in agriculture and attend a lot of functions and am seeing and hearing a lot of permiculture ideas hitting conventional farm conventions, luncheons and seminars. "Soil health" is a HUGE buzz word right now, something that was scoffed at just a few years ago. If no one believes me, do a search of this site and see the many posts where permiculture is succeeding.  Grass fed farming also decided to stay out of the government definement as well and it has really worked well for them. Then do a case study of organic farming and you will see where it failed. They tried to use government certification to bolster there ideals, and it resulted in 900 pages of bureaucracy that has so many loopholes, a consumer truly cannot be assured if it is truly organic or not. In what should be the most simplest of regulations, loop holes and politics ruined their original intent. I would hate to see the definition of permiculture diluted and polluted by lawmakers who know nothing about agriculture and have gardeners who grow their rose bushes for them.

Permiculture will be unstoppable as long as it is a grass roots effort in my opinion.

Be careful what you wish for...

 
Ray Cecil
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Travis Johnson wrote:I won't sign it as I do not think it is a good idea.

We already have Paul Wheaton Labs doing an excellent job, as well as thousands of others in smaller form, out there who are promoting the virtues of permiculture far better then a government entity ever could. In the private sector, where ideas are driven by real world data and not the whims of politics, is where change truly happens.

I am deeply engrossed in agriculture and attend a lot of functions and am seeing and hearing a lot of permiculture ideas hitting conventional farm conventions, luncheons and seminars. "Soil health" is a HUGE buzz word right now, something that was scoffed at just a few years ago. If no one believes me, do a search of this site and see the many posts where permiculture is succeeding.  Grass fed farming also decided to stay out of the government definement as well and it has really worked well for them. Then do a case study of organic farming and you will see where it failed. They tried to use government certification to bolster there ideals, and it resulted in 900 pages of bureaucracy that has so many loopholes, a consumer truly cannot be assured if it is truly organic or not. In what should be the most simplest of regulations, loop holes and politics ruined their original intent. I would hate to see the definition of permiculture diluted and polluted by lawmakers who know nothing about agriculture and have gardeners who grow their rose bushes for them.

Permiculture will be unstoppable as long as it is a grass roots effort in my opinion.

Be careful what you wish for...



Thank you for your opinion. That is what makes this country so great. You can express your opinion and be heard. When writting a petition on the whitehouse.gov website you are very limited in how many characters they give you to describe what you are trying to say. Let's all just get behind this, and iron out the details later. I am not advocating a government controlled push for permaculture. Rather, and government funded effort to encourage its education and implementation. I would like to see a very hands off approach from the government, and give the power and a little money to the grass roots guys like Paul. WOuldn't you love to see Paul Wheaton funded by the government to continue his research? That is what I am advocating. This is no way would take away from Paul or his research, instead, it is attempting to help it grow, either directly or indirectly. If everyone hears about Permaculture, Wheaton Labs is sure to grow.
 
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Travis Johnson wrote:I won't sign it as I do not think it is a good idea.
...
Permiculture will be unstoppable as long as it is a grass roots effort in my opinion.



I agree with Travis.  The last thing I want is for permaculture to get 1) distorted by government and 2) associated with government (especially with an administration that is so widely loathed).  I prefer small and slow solutions adapted to time and place, not a one-size-fits-all bureaucratized approach.  And I say this as a former Federal bureaucrat.
 
Ray Cecil
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Steven Kovacs wrote:

Travis Johnson wrote:I won't sign it as I do not think it is a good idea.
...
Permiculture will be unstoppable as long as it is a grass roots effort in my opinion.



I agree with Travis.  The last thing I want is for permaculture to get 1) distorted by government and 2) associated with government (especially with an administration that is so widely loathed).  I prefer small and slow solutions adapted to time and place, not a one-size-fits-all bureaucratized approach.  And I say this as a former Federal bureaucrat.



Thank you for your input. I am not here to argue one way or the other. I am simply trying to create awareness and possibly some funding for the efforts.
 
pollinator
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Ray Cecil wrote:

Mike Jay wrote:I signed the petition but when I go back in through the link it says only one person has signed it so far.  Did I do something wrong?  I did verify my signature by email.



I am not sure. It may take it awhile to refresh. Or maybe it doesn't count them until you get the required 150 votes to go live on the whitehouse.gov website.

Thanks Mike!



Yep still just saying 1 signed after I just signed too.

Rather deceptive. If people are looking at this and seeing, only 1 signature where it isn't true, they might be less inclined to sign themselves.
 
pollinator
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Ray Cecil wrote:WOuldn't you love to see Paul Wheaton funded by the government to continue his research?



I wouldn't.  I love what Paul is doing, but I absolutely don't want him funded by the government.  I want the government to fund about 1/100 of what they fund right now.  I have yet to see the government get involved with anything that they didn't f@ck up.  If the government funds anything, they now have say in how it is run.  The very best you can hope for in that case is mountains of red tape, and you can almost count on any real progress coming to a complete stop.
 
Ray Cecil
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Todd Parr wrote:

Ray Cecil wrote:WOuldn't you love to see Paul Wheaton funded by the government to continue his research?



I wouldn't.  I love what Paul is doing, but I absolutely don't want him funded by the government.  I want the government to fund about 1/100 of what they fund right now.  I have yet to see the government get involved with anything that they didn't f@ck up.  If the government funds anything, they now have say in how it is run.  The very best you can hope for in that case is mountains of red tape, and you can almost count on any real progress coming to a complete stop.



Although I see your point....Are you for or against the government funding road construction? Subsidizing hospitals? Or anything else you use but might take for granted? How about public transportation? Abortion clinics? Etc? Please, let's not make this a partisan issue. However, I am just saying, before you form an opinion, check your double standards. The government does a lot of wonderful things, and this could be a simple one that it could get involved in. I'm not asking the government to create regulations. Instead, simply fund the purchase of seeds, seedling and basic hand tool. Also to create a USDA zone map with a species list. I'm not asking it to take control of permies.com.
 
Tyler Ludens
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I sure liked it when FEMA handed us a check after a natural disaster here.  On our end there was 0% red tape.  They didn't care if we used the money to rebuild or to go on vacation.  So I think experiences of government funding must vary wildly depending on which department under which administration one is receiving funding.
 
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I have some issues with your wording.

In my experience using the word "SHALL" tells them they have to do it.
This wording sets up the petition to be sent to the great circle of going no where or to terminate in committee who will summarily deny the petition.

I have never seen the US House or Senate take orders from anyone. (The term SHALL will be seen as an order.)
It is best to persuade them instead, so they can claim it is their idea, rather than instruct them to do something.

As our new President is finding out, Washington is all about words, use them correctly and things happen, use them wrong and SHTF happens, or the proposal simply never gets acted upon.

Redhawk
 
Ray Cecil
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Also, I see this extending more into the Department of Natural Resources. You can already order seedlings from them. All I am asking is for the feds to subsidize some of this effort and help create demand by educated and spreading the basic tenants of permaculture.
 
Ray Cecil
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Everyone. I understand your concerns. If you object to the wording, than please right your own petition and submit it to this thread. Let's create a competition! May the best petition submittal win!
 
pollinator
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OK Folks we have strayed here into the world that is politics as this is a cider press topic you can continue there if you wish or can .https://permies.com/t/31128/category-Cider-Press
 
please buy this thing and then I get a fat cut of the action:
permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work
https://permies.com/wiki/bootcamp
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