watercolour questions so beginner, I'm almost afraid to ask

Regarding paper - I use appropriate oil pastel in between water colors or alcohol paints and physically move so that lines run and make a background and suggest the future. I obviously am not a trained artist. I only started after covid fevers.

Anyway I so appreciate hearing all of these ideas and comments on Permies!

Drafting and composition are my current stumbling block.   Although I still have a lot to learn about how colour behaves.

The reference



My attempt on the  back of some watercolor paper.  Mostly,  I'm trying understand the fence.

Thinking about brushes.   I like the round ones with a point, and the more water they hold, the easier for me to do the first layer of paint.  

It's almost like a Japanese calligraphy brush, but mine don't hold as much water.  

If I want to buy a bigger brush like this,  how would I call it?  

Snipped:

Tereza Okava wrote:hey, no judgment about brushes. you can make great art with kiddie paintbrushes, or your fingers, or chicken feathers.

Made me think of this article: https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/rio-arriba-artist-finds-market-niche-as-professional-finger-painter/article_bc593674-0478-11ee-87ed-3b1b9efed737.html

Sandy

That's a difficult fence! But the fence you painted, looks right.

Meet Petricor

From the shooting chicken thread https://permies.com/t/126699/art/Shooting-Chickens-amazing-chicken-photos#1003018

My first victim.   I have a long way to go,  but it looks like him.  That makes me happy.

Different paper and paint make a huge influence on how it turns out.  There is so much to learn.

I guess the next thing to ask about is masking fluid.  Things like the white spots on the chicken and the eye highlight are really hard to leave out.  I ended up having to add the eye highlight after with a white pen.  

I don't know what my question is because I don't know anything about masking fluid.  Any idea what questions I need to ask to find out if it's right for me?

oh, here's a question.  Can I paint, then add masking fluid or must it be added to the blank paper?

r ranson wrote:I guess the next thing to ask about is masking fluid.  Things like the white spots on the chicken and the eye highlight are really hard to leave out.  I ended up having to add the eye highlight after with a white pen.  

I don't know what my question is because I don't know anything about masking fluid.  Any idea what questions I need to ask to find out if it's right for me?

I don't use masking fluid. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with a white gelly pen (for a highlight in an eye). I like leaving white spaces white by painting along them, even though it takes time.
A friend who's a professional watercolorist (she gives courses) does use masking fluid sometimes. But she had a lot of trouble with the different brands.
To answer the other question: you can apply it also after painting, so you keep that first layer of colour.

Improving.  

Sorry I didn't spot this before, it's been a crazy couple months. That's a good looking bird!

For adding white afterward, I've used gel pens, gouache, a white colored pencil, and a stinky smelling white paint pen. I usually pick the gel pens, mostly because they've also got gold and silver options I like. Gouache can have watercolor painted on top of it, the others not so much.

I've used masking fluid, but I'm not a fan. Somehow I can never get it to cover exactly what I want, I hate waiting for it to dry, and I'm too impatient removing it and end up roughing up the paper. You can use it over watercolor if say you wanted to protect something light colored. May you have better luck with it than I do!

Brush size is by the number usually. Bigger numbers mean a bigger brush. If the number has a /0 it's the other way ( a 10/0 is smaller than a 5/0. ) As far as materials and shape, try all sorts of things. Most people will find a couple they prefer.

New question.

Is there some sort of graphite paper that will erase?   I want to sketch the design on paper then trace it onto the watercolour block, but the transfer paper I have doesn't erase if I make an error.

2 things -

My Grandpa was a plumber - plumber's putty is the best eraser, however I can't find real putty anymore.

I use a razor to carefully, precisely cut to white.  Does anyone do this?

I just saw this!
I haven't read the entire topic, but to answer the recent questions -
use a soft pencil if you want to erase it later. But not too soft because these are "oily" and leave darker marks. Harder pencils may leave grooves if you press too hard. So a lot depends on your technique; try different pencils.

You can also cut with a razor like Mar Viega says, the result of course depends on the paper.
There is a wonderful blog with interviews with New Yorker cartoon artists, about their tools and techniques:

https://afinecaseforpencils.com/

some use watercolours too. Excellent resource. And amazing reason for practice. I'm promising myself that I'll start doing it regularly one day... since a few years ;)

Also, try painting/drawing from nature, instead of photos. Especially when you're learning. Photo is a view already interpreted, by the camera.

Flora Eerschay wrote:Also, try painting/drawing from nature, instead of photos. Especially when you're learning. Photo is a view already interpreted, by the camera.

I agree.
When I first started (in the 1980s) I even thought using a photo as reference was 'cheating'. I don't think that anymore, but I still prefer painting and sketching from real life (and 'plein air', that is outdoors, if possible).

Mar Viega wrote:2 things -

My Grandpa was a plumber - plumber's putty is the best eraser, however I can't find real putty anymore.

I use a razor to carefully, precisely cut to white.  Does anyone do this?

I've been using a Japanese eraser for most things as it's kind to the page. The kneaded eraser is a lot like putty,  it's tricky for me as it lifts the mark instead of rubbing it out, but is good for lightening lines before painting.  Neither works for lines made by the carbon paper.

I haven't tried cutting the paper as I worry it would damage the sizing and change how the paint interacts with it.

Flora Eerschay wrote:Also, try painting/drawing from nature, instead of photos. Especially when you're learning. Photo is a view already interpreted, by the camera.

I'm doing a combination.  Sketching on location to get values and colours right,  usually a few but since my drafting technique is poor still, I take a photo and use that and some transfers paper to mark important placement so my proportions aren't off for my main painting.  Then I can use a pencil to fill in the rest of the under drawing before painting.  

Erasing the transfer paper marks is where I'm having trouble.
With the pencil sketching, I can use a watercolour pencil so it disappears when the paint is applied.   But the other marks remain.

I'll improve drafting and drawing later.  For now,  I want to learn painting.  

r ranson wrote:New question.

Is there some sort of graphite paper that will erase?   I want to sketch the design on paper then trace it onto the watercolour block, but the transfer paper I have doesn't erase if I make an error.

When I want to transfer a traced drawing (or something) I don't use carbon paper. I trace on transparent paper (like the kind for sewing patterns), then I trace the lines at the backside with a soft black graphite pencil, I place it (right side up) on the paper where I want it and then trace the lines again with pencil. This will give a soft and erasable transfer.

This is what I've been using.

Chickens look really wired if we get the eye in the wrong spot, so it's very useful for getting the drawings started.

It just doesn't erase.

Maybe I have the wrong type?

To R Ranson - what is Japanese putty? I want to try that. I just bought plumber's putty - mistake, crumbly, not malleable like old school

Mar Viega wrote:To R Ranson - what is Japanese putty? I want to try that. I just bought plumber's putty - mistake, crumbly, not malleable like old school

The Japanese eraser isn't a putty,  it's just a really good quality eraser that removes pencil lines without having to rub much or press hard.  I use Muji brand black ones although the white is also very good.  I've never seen anything like it, even at high end stationary or art shops.  It's really cheap in Japan,  like one step up from a dollar shop, but considered high end if you can find a muji shop outside japan.  

I use camelcamelcamel.com to put a price watch on amazon and get it on sale.   Or ask people visiting Japan to bring me back some muji stuff as a souvenir.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:

r ranson wrote:New question.

Is there some sort of graphite paper that will erase?   I want to sketch the design on paper then trace it onto the watercolour block, but the transfer paper I have doesn't erase if I make an error.

When I want to transfer a traced drawing (or something) I don't use carbon paper. I trace on transparent paper (like the kind for sewing patterns), then I trace the lines at the backside with a soft black graphite pencil, I place it (right side up) on the paper where I want it and then trace the lines again with pencil. This will give a soft and erasable transfer.

Yes this or you can just color all over the back of your sketch or picture and then you just trace over the front and the graphite from the pencil on the back will leave a very light outline for you.

Having trouble deciding the background for the next chicken portrait.   So I swatched.

I tried to use mostly colours that will be blended in the chicken,  but not too dominant.  The blob in the middle is the rough proportions and location of the dominant colours of the chicken.

What's your favourite?

Ps, please ignore the random lines as I was experimenting with transfer paper alternatives.

Jenny Wright wrote:...
Yes this or you can just color all over the back of your sketch or picture and then you just trace over the front and the graphite from the pencil on the back will leave a very light outline for you.

this video explains it more clear than I can do in written words

I know the pencil trick.  It's a good trick but I actually hate it.

If I had to do this each time, then I would run out of pencils in a few weeks and I find it messy.  It's also an action that my arthritis hates so I'll keep that for emergencies.

I was raised by people who did art and painted (but not watercolours) and there were a few tricks we used.
- use old transfer paper
- transfer paper used to be easily erasable back then
- use a square of transfer paper that was about 4" on each side.  Take the top image in place, then move the transfer paper to only the part where we are drawing, that way smudges don't come from the hand resting or things moving about and the line is much cleaner than using one giant sheet of transfer paper.
- if you have one, get the right size stick with knobs on the end to rest the hand while tracing (and painting and drawing) so that we don't get smudges on the good canvas/wood/paper.  

So I expected the speedball graphite paper to act like this.   I'm really disappointed that it won't.  Surely there's eraseable transfer paper out there?  

I decided on yellow ochre and ultramarine since they are the two mixing colours I use most.

r ranson wrote:Having trouble deciding the background for the next chicken portrait.   So I swatched.

I tried to use mostly colours that will be blended in the chicken,  but not too dominant.  The blob in the middle is the rough proportions and location of the dominant colours of the chicken.

What's your favourite?

Ps, please ignore the random lines as I was experimenting with transfer paper alternatives.

Wow cool. My uninformed opinion is the top left darker bluish - or - I like the lines!

Another layer or two still to go, but it's starting to look like big red.

Reference image

I'm going to stop here.  There are some issues with the painting, but I suspect they happened at the under-drawing stage and in the first layer of paint.  If I try to fix it by tossing more paint at it, I suspect it will just make the errors more obvious and mess things up.  

I'll have to pay more attention on the next painting.

How about charcoal and watercolour?   I see this combination in library books of dead artists,  so I suspect that it was a common combination for sketching.   But I cannot find any modern resources on how the two mediums work together to create such a stunning effect.

r ranson wrote:How about charcoal and watercolour?

It is a good idea in that the nature of these two materials is similar.

Charcoal, watercolour, tempera, guache, soft pencil, chalk, etc - quick, intuitive sketches, "capture the moment", if something goes wrong - start over and over again. After making a million of quick sketches/paintings it takes a few seconds and few brushstrokes to make a complete artwork that captures the movement and the spirit of the moment.

Oil paintings, harder pencils, crayons, acrylics (for underpainting as they dry faster) - work "long and slow", make tiny details, work endlessly on one artwork, sometimes for weeks or months, usually on canvas or wooden board (coated) as they are more durable than paper. You perfect one artwork over a long time.

Someday I will take up watercolor painting. I just love it. I was just at the Georgia O'Keefe museum in Santa Fe and thought of you. In one of the videos, she said she always thought someone would teach her how to paint what she wanted to paint. She went to school for painting but said she threw it out the window and did what she wanted to do. ...a few years later she broke the record for highest price of painting sold- over $44 million!

Here I'm trying different textures to see if I can make a texture like feathers.  

So far I tried
Plastic wrap
Sugar (there is a reason people don't use this)
Salt
Wet on wet
Dry brushing on damp
Wet on damp
Granulating paint with and without the help of gravity.

This last one shows the most promise

Any suggestions for more things to try?

r ranson wrote:Here I'm trying different textures to see if I can make a texture like feathers.  

Any suggestions for more things to try?

I don't know if I can describe my method clearly. I'll try.
I start loading my brush with a lot of wet paint (with plenty of pigment). Then I place that paint on the paper there where I want the colour to be the most saturated. Then quickly I clean my brush and whipe it as dry as possible. I dip that brush in the wet paint on the paper and move some of that paint, to soften edges of the colour, let it fade into the white of the paper, or into another colour next to it.
Here's a photo of a watercolour illustration I made (for a well-known childrens story)

I'm not sure how many different brushes you are working with but a very small/fine one might help. I have been able to get some featherlike texture by using very fine strokes, of slightly darker than the prior layer over dried areas. An almost-dry fan style brush can sometimes give a similar look.
I'm going to try and insert a googled stock image of ones I think were done using a similar type of technique.


I do want to say that you have made a really fast and impressive start with the medium. You've been able to give a sense of life, personality and realism to the ladies you've painted. One of the strengths of watercolour can be the speed and (literal) fluidity of it. I wonder if you might want to try playing with the impressionist options it does so well rather than focusing on realistic details that are more easily done by mixing in other options like Flora mentioned.
( I jumped right into botanical illustration when I got first into watercolour in my late teens so I totally understand the urge to stay with pure realism)

I've got a pretty basic set of brushes but the rounds one have a bit of a point.  Nothing very fine.  Any suggestions for a word I can use to find a better brush?

I want to try all the different styles eventually, but I'm pretty methodical when I learn.  I do one thing over and over again in different ways (in this case, paint chickens), then move to the next element.  

Right now I'm focused on
- making the painting look like the thing it's supposed to look like (so there's not that pause when someone new sees it and you know they are thinking, um, what is it and how do I be nice about it when I don't know what it is?)
- I want the area around the face of the chicken to have more detail and contrast, but the further away from the face I want it to have the idea of the chicken.  I think it's called loose painting.  

Where I'm struggling is how to show that this is a feathered chicken without painting each and every feather.  

For example, this chicken.



She looks black and white (especially in this picture) but in reality, her white has a soft red glow and her black is almost sky blue when the light hits it just so.  

I tried doing fine lines on top of a wash for the neck feathers but it looks so bla and childlike.  Almost like a finger painting.   Granulating black/brown paint over a wash turned out better with drops of water in it before it dried.  But it doesn't capture what I'm looking for.  

Maybe I need to take my cheapest brush and cut out most of the hairs to make a fine brush to do these lines?

For now, I'm moving on to a chicken that's less speckled while I try to figure out how to do this texture.  

I know some people use shed cat whiskers to do very fine lining. You can use some thrifted brushes for the handles or cut some of those cheap ones back to get the super small point.

This is from a few weeks ago.

Painting a chicken while painting with a chicken.



If you pop over to youtube and give the video a thumbs up and a like, that would be awesome!



The story with this is a thing happened.  The chicken was being a chicken.  From the human point of view, it was um... a thing.  Details are not important, but I assure you, your imagination can't get close to the 'thing'.  

I didn't yell or raise my voice, I just put the chicken back home and calmly cleaned up the mess.  But still, my disappointment was clear.  This chicken is more sensitive to their humans than most and I needed to repair the bond.  Thus the art therapy session.