watercolour questions so beginner, I'm almost afraid to ask

1. paint flat on a table or use an easel?

2. when using a sketchbook for painting outside, how to safely close it at the end?

3. am I supposed to be doing something to re-dry my palette after painting?

4. what other questions do I need to be asking?

Hi Raven,

I used to love to paint in watercolor, but not so much recently.  As in many things, the devil in in the details.  How much water is in the mix and how much paint you apply will heavily impact your outcomes. I paint flat.  But I keep my brush on the dry side, so I could probably go more vertical without an issue.  I don’t paint outdoors, and when using sketchbook paper, I always remove it first …so closing it is not a consideration.  I have always rinsed the palette off.   One probably could allow it to dry and reapply water…but I have never tried that.

As a beginner, painting flat is easier with better control.  Experimenting with an easel is fun though.

If painting into a sketchbook, allow it to dry fully before closing.  It doesn't take too long really, even if you are absolutely soaking the paper.  Maybe an hour at most.  I have only ever used cheap sketchbooks which will dry pretty quickly, but good watercolour paper doesn't take long either.

I just let my palette dry, which can take longer than the paper: 24 hours?  Top tip:  Crayola makes a very nice watercolour paintbox (or it did, when I last bought one ten years ago).  It may be aimed at kids, but it's high quality paint and much cheaper than commiting to buying multiple tubes of paints when starting out.  However the included paintbrush is rubbish.  Use professional brushes instead.

Don't forget to take a fountain pen. I carry a glass nib too that I use with paint in my pocket field set.

What about paint safety?   Some of the colours are named for toxic substances.   Do they use cadmium in paint making?   Or is it just a name?

I've recently taken up watercolor painting. Never painted anything at all and not much good at drawing so I'm just making it up as I go along. So far, I have completed a total of three paintings. "Moon Over Water" and "Nothern Lights Over Frozen Water" were gifted without being photographed.  I can say without any attempt at bragging that they are both beautiful, far better than any of those I saw done on YouTube tutorials.

A good friend and retired art teacher at first kept trying to give me pointers and instruction which I ignored. Not out of disrespect but because I knew I would never accomplish anything if I tried to do learn the right way. I knew she had spent time on the shore of Lake Superior and loved the lights, so she got that one. She cried a bit and hasn't offered painting advice since. When I ask, she just doesn't seem to know what to say.

This earlier and much poorer "Moon Over Water" below was destined for the trash but someone else rescued it and hung it on the wall. Currently I'm working on "Lightening at Night Over Water" but so far have wasted a lot of paint and paper on it. Proper lightening is damn hard to paint.

I paint a combination of flat and tilted and a combination of on wet and dry paper but like I said I'm just making it up as I go.  Anyway, here is the crappy "Moon Over Water".  

Nice work.  I find watercolor excels at water and glass.

r ranson wrote:What about paint safety?   Some of the colours are named for toxic substances.   Do they use cadmium in paint making?   Or is it just a name?

Excellent question!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_pigments

Brilliantly colored, with good permanence and tinting power, cadmium yellow, cadmium orange and cadmium red are familiar artists’ colors, and are frequently employed as architectural paints, as they can add life and vibrancy to renderings. Their greatest use is in the coloring of plastics and specialty paints, which must resist processing or service temperatures up to 3,000 °C (5,430 °F). The colorfastness or permanence of cadmium requires protection from the element's tendency to slowly form carbonate salts with exposure to air. Most paint vehicles accomplish this, but cadmium colors will fade in fresco or mural painting.

The following are commonly used as pigments in artists' paints:

Cadmium yellow is cadmium sulfide (CdS), C.I. Pigment Yellow 37.
Cadmium sulfoselenide is a solid solution of CdS and cadmium selenide; depending on the sulfur-to-selenium ratio, C.I. Pigment Orange 20 or C.I. Pigment Red 108 is obtained.
Zinc cadmium sulfide is a greenish, solid solution of CdS and zinc sulfide, C.I. Pigment Yellow 35.
Cadmium yellow is sometimes mixed with viridian to give a bright, pale green mixture called cadmium green.
When first introduced, there were hardly any stable pigments in the yellow-to-red range, with orange and bright red being very troublesome. The cadmium pigments eventually replaced compounds such as mercury sulfide (the original vermilion) with greatly improved lightfastness.

Cadmium pigments are known for excellent lightfastness, although the lighter shades can fade in sunlight. [quote/]

That's amazing talent.   Beautiful painting.

Sadly, I travel the slow road to find my skills.


New question.   Why do they tape the paper edges?  What are they taping it to?

when the paper gets wet you may have curling, which is why (good) watercolor paper comes in a "block" and you only break it off after you're done. if your paper is loose, you can tape it down til the whole thing is dry and ready to go. (depending on the type of paper you're using you may want to wet it down to remove sizing or to improve its ability to suck up pigment, if you're using techniques that involve absorbing washes, for example)

I used to suggest students buy clamps for their sketchbooks, even just bulldog clips (like office supplies) can be set up to stop it from closing completely.

i don't think i've ever been in a painting class where anyone cared about what made up the paints. just, obviously, don't lick your paintbrush.

As for letting your palette dry between uses, not sure if you mean the cells with the paint in them? i usually bring some toilet paper or something to make sure they are dry enough to travel, it's like soap or shampoo bars, you don't want to leave water in the paints, so just take off superficial liquid and then when you're back home let them dry out well.

Is it normal for paintbrushes to have one or two hairs 1/8th inch longer than the rest?  They seem to get in the way of accuracy.  Are there paintbrush police,  or is it okay to cut the offending bristles?

Also thanks for helping me get through the beginners angst.

r ranson wrote:Is it normal for paintbrushes to have one or two hairs 1/8th inch longer than the rest?  They seem to get in the way of accuracy.  Are there paintbrush police,  or is it okay to cut the offending bristles?

a lot of this depends on your brush. some are meant to have a few long hairs so you can do details, for example, some have hairs of varying lengths, or it might just be losing hairs, because it happens (brushes don't last as long as paints do, and if you're not paying $$$ for brushes they might lose hairs pretty easily. if you didn't buy the brush new, that is what i would bet).
There are many, MANY different kinds of brushes and in the end YOU are Benevolent Keeper of Brushes, so if you want those long hairs gone, cut 'em off! If you don't have another superthin point brush, try painting the details of your flowers with them and see what you think.

(i have so many different brushes it is almost embarrassing. and my kid has probably stolen half of them. but i can tell you which one is goat hair, which is raccoon, which is pony, rabbit, etc.  I also have synthetic ones, cant have enough brushes :-D)

Edited to add: you might find the things here interesting- Winsor Newton has a nice website with some smart tips (like how to rescue dry watercolor tubes, the difference between different brushes, etc etc) https://www.winsornewton.com/int/education/guides/products/watercolour/ . I was looking for info on safety, didn't find anything relevant for watercolors, but these little tip things are cute and you might get some ideas.

Thanks for the link.  That's a great resource.  

and thank you for the help.

The bristles that stand out are a bit bent and curly so I can't convince them to put a line where I ask them to.  I think I'll cut it down so it's less than 1/16th of an inch longer.  1/8th to 1/4 inch is too long for my current skillset.

That I bought the brushes in a 12-piece set tells you pretty much all you need to know about the quality.  But they are hair/fir instead of nylon.  Although the description kept switching between squirrel and sable so I think they were having spell-check trouble as well.  They were affordable, and if I waited to save up enough to buy good quality stuff, I would never get to start.  

Another question

So I paint a shape with water, then dab in wet colour.  The tutorials say the colour is supposed to spread around and some of the colours in this set do.  but a lot of them don't.  Most of them just stay where I put them and I have to flood the paper with an excess of water (make a big dome and risk the water running away from my shape).  Even then, I have to push the colour around as it won't spread out like on the tutorials I watch.

(edit to add: I tried different water colour paper - the one I know for sure is 110lb/230gsm)


I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to need this much water.

Is it me or the paint?  

Mark Reed,  I see nothing at all "crappy" in your painting. It is, in fact, quite lovely. But, your insistence that it is crappy brings to mind a common difficulty most artists face - they are their own worst critic. Please be kinder to yourself and your talents, and r, I hope that you'll likewise be gentle with yours. The easiest,  probably most effective way I know, to do it is to pretend it was created by someone else. Don't look at it with all the things in mind, that you wanted to be other than they are - look at it for what it is.

hey, no judgment about brushes. you can make great art with kiddie paintbrushes, or your fingers, or chicken feathers.
but it is less likely you'll be happy with curly brush hairs!! i'd definitely cut that one down.

as for your paint-- everyone does it differently, my suggestion would be try it on a bunch of different papers- flood the paper and apply your wet color, use it dry, try really watering down the color and then putting on various layers of wash. i would say try watering the paint down more, UNLESS you're like me and like really intense colors, in which case that's sort of par for the course.
i personally don't like to add colors to a "puddle" of water as i can't really control where it spreads to, but it is also ridiculously hard to articulate what exactly we do as we paint, and i think every single person does it in their own way. if you can manage to get over "wasting" paper and time (i have trouble with this issue) you can really learn a lot about what you like to do and what kind of results it produces.

(sorry, got cut off in the middle of my reply)

Another question:  If you could only have 3 colours, what would be your favourite?

and the same for 5 colours?  

I'm looking to create a smaller pallet so I can travel with it easier and learn colour mixing.  

hey try this with your paper: take a sponge or a wet washcloth, wet it really sopping wet, and mop back and forth across the paper. let it dry, then paint on it later.
if your water is beading up or rolling off watercolor paper, there might be sizing that needs to be removed.

r ranson wrote:Another question:  If you could only have 3 colours, what would be your favourite?

and the same for 5 colours?  

So I have color issues and am not a great authority for this. I tend to paint in just one color, using different shades plus black and white. I just opened my ancient pallete from college and found that cobalt blue and a senna type of brown were the colors i used the most over the past 100 years. I could live with just those two and maybe a nice froggy green (keep in mind: i can't really see orange, yellow, pink).
Buuuut my daughter had a painting class some time ago where they were asked to buy 3 tubes of paint- a cyan blue, a yellow, and a hot pinky red, and they were allowed to use charcoal and chalk. I sat in on the classes and was very impressed.

I second Tereza and her sponge suggestion a small cube in my field box holds down my brushes. I have become comfortable with water brushes that contain water within the brushes body for some aplications. I also use tape not only to prevent curling but to create a straight line in some cases. I most often carry small blocks, pocket sized pads of water color paper they even come in a postcard configuration. My field sketches/paintings are thumbnails for larger works, sometimes crude and sometimes more detailed depending on time. Often starting out as continuous line ink drawings for speed and paint added later. I've really just begun painting again after encouragement from the wife and daughter. They uncovered a large leather portfolio case in the garage from my college days. I still prefer working in the jewelry studio but do enjoy painting again.

Would grocery store masking tape work or is there a special kind?

You'd be fine with grocery store masking tape, blue or green painters tape would work too.

I found a class in town that I should be able to afford if I don't do something silly like buy more sheep (or chickens or paint).  

It's in the fall and for ABSOLUTE BEGINNERS.

The supply list isn't beginner friendly.  

Google isn't helpful today.

Can someone help translate this?

Brushes: one large round, or ‘gold sable’ (synthetic) size 6 or 8 one small round, one series 620 size 2 or 4

I think this means I want a round brush.  I have a 6 and an 8.

Then I want a smaller round one?  

And now I'm lost.  I suspect it's my literacy level getting in the way of understanding this.  

Is the list saying I want three brushes?  

it ain't your literacy! from what i can tell you need two round brushes, a large (6 or 8.) and a small (2 or 4). Series 620 is remarkably specific, and like you say totally not beginner friendly....

Tereza Okava wrote:it ain't your literacy! from what i can tell you need two round brushes, a large (6 or 8.) and a small (2 or 4). Series 620 is remarkably specific, and like you say totally not beginner friendly....

From what you wrote, I was able to google something that gave me paintbrushes.

The "series 620" is another kind of round brush?  I wonder how it's different.  

Looking at the supply list, some of the colours are going to be hard to get locally.  But the class says they can provide the materials for an extra fee (and lend the brushes).  Looks like it's less than buying one tube of the 9 paints they suggest.

Another issue is it doesn't specify if we are okay to bring hard paints or if we need to work directly from a tube.  The class I took as a kid had very firm opinions on the importance of working from a tube and not letting the paint dry - even though it was watercolour.  

series 620
https://www.borcianiebonazzi.com/gb/products-catalogue/834-series-620-il-perfetto-round-brush-with-kolinsky-synthetic-sable-.html

I hate to say this as a former art teacher. But if it were me I would go to the classes with the things I think will be useful, and the things I have doubts about I'd just wait on. Everyone else is always unprepared, and worst case scenario you could always borrow the brushes, as you mention.

I have some caligraphy dip pens and some fountain pens, but even with waterproof ink, there is smudging when I apply the watercolour.

Apparently "waterproof" in fountain pen ink means that the writing will still be legable if the paper gets soaked in water.  Not that it won't smudge at all.  

Any suggestions for an ink that would work well with watercolours?  Or do I put the ink on after the painting?  

Maybe I'm a philistine, but I use a ball point pen

I usually draw with a pencil and paint over that;  then if I'm using ink, it goes on after painting.  I don't really use ink in my style of painting, though I use it a lot with my coloured pencil drawings.

Heyyyy! Hope your painting is going well RR!
Some thoughts: I use cardstock and watered-down gouache. Gouache can be used as a watercolor or a tempera-type paint. And I can use less water with gouache than I would have to with watercolor. So then the paper doesn't get waterlogged.
I sketch a 1/2'' frame around the edge. I don't know why. Maybe to allot for framing. Just so the painting doesn't go up to the edge. I don't tape it. The cardstock doesn't wobble that much and I like to take it places anyway. I usually just use a large book for a table.
If you're painting cute little motifs or small pictures like your lavender you will do lots better free styling from imagination. It can clog one up on details if you're looking at a picture or in real life and you're trying to to do more cute small stuff.
I wouldn't worry about the paint. They're probably toxic but you're not going to be eating them and one comes in contact with the same chemicals everyday anyway.

G Freden wrote:Maybe I'm a philistine, but I use a ball point pen

I usually draw with a pencil and paint over that;  then if I'm using ink, it goes on after painting.  I don't really use ink in my style of painting, though I use it a lot with my coloured pencil drawings.

Ballpoints are great,  but with my arthritis,  I can't use them.  

Thanks for the tips on what order.

I'm late here, but you need to hear this... I knew your painting was of lavendar before I read your caption. Good job!

I often sketch in ink and then paint. The ink does run a bit when done in that order. But I also paint and then detail in ink. Many you tube vids showing both ways. Each painting, a lesson and step towards ones unique style. Your lavender is lovely as is.

Robert Ray wrote:Each painting, a lesson and step towards ones unique style. Your lavender is lovely as is.

I agree!  There's no wrong way to paint.  

I will say however, it's helpful to learn The Rules as a beginner as it helps with technique--after all, it can be discouraging not being able to translate your vision into art.  A class will probably help with some foundational rules, then feel free to break them.

Right now I'm focusing on three main areas (in order of importance to me)
1. line control - can I draw or paint where I want to? (this also factors into seeing the items better)
2. value - seeing black and whiteness better
3. colour - learning what colour does, how it interacts with each other, and the limits of mixing colours.  Right now I'm focusing on a limited colour palette of two to six colours for a given painting.

Everything else is just play for now while I try to find out what I like and what I don't like.  

Here's the latest - and yes, this is probably what I get for buying amazonbasics - but at under a dollar a tube of paint... well, got to start somewhere.

I opened the paint a few weeks ago, put some in my pans on my pallet.  Now I'm ready to refill some and I get the tubes, open them up, and the paint has separated.  The binder falls out of the tube, but the paint is icky.

I tried re-mixing the binder into the paint, but now the result is shiny paint which isn't what I want from watercolour.  

blotting out the binder juice and the result is hard to re-wet and doesn't flow in the water like it used to.

What's the solution?
if the only solution is to buy better paint, maybe check this out first

so the finished watercolor dries shiny, is that it? yikes.

my suggestion to you would be to get whatever scrap paper (newspaper, foolscap, even cardboard) you have around and just paint swatches with different concentration washes of this weird paint. see how it dries, see what it does. give it a few days to see if the shine goes away.

I've painted with all sorts of paint, including the real crap in kiddie pan sets you see at the dollar store (it often smells good... reminds me of childhood).
I really don't think there's such a thing as bad paint per se, if you know how it behaves. If you know what it does, you can know when to put it to use. While I love spending $$$$ on art supplies (who doesn't?), I really don't think it's a requirement for good art.
I've got some tubes here that have to be 25+ years old, but I use them pretty dilute (washes), I don't just scumble them onto the paper straight, so I'm not sure how they would dry. I don't think I've ever really noticed anything weird come out of a tube, and I've never done anything special to store them (I keep them in an old tackle box).

I'm a bit confused about buying paints in tubes vs pans.

I like painting from pans because it's super-portable (I don't have a place in the house yet to paint).  

When I put tube paint in pans to dry, it shrinks 1/3 to 1/2 the size.  (being cheap stuff, it also cracks).  

So I'm looking to upgrade to student grade for a few colours but is it worth buying in a pan or a tube given how much shrinkage there is.  How do I compare the price per amount of paint between the two?

am I over thinking this?

i don't think people normally put the tube paint in pans to dry and use later, so this might be the first comparison of its type!!
it's a PITA to use/transport and people save it for studio use, as far as I can tell. i've only ever diluted it right out of the tube (smear on the palette and use it that way).
For travel or painting outside I ONLY use a pan set, it's just so much easier.
you can buy really good pan watercolors individually, as well as cheaper ones, to put in a pop-in-pop-out setup, which is worth it to me. My daughter uses my set from college, and I think I've had to replace two colors (white and like a burnt sienna). I went to college in the ice age, so i think i did pretty good with it. That was a windsor newton set (came with a nice brush) and I bought another one that is a bit more downmarket for myself in recent years. It's still quite good.
I don't think i will live long enough to see a significant cost/benefit result for different watercolor paints, quite frankly.

It seems to be common to put tube watercolours in pans for outdoor painting and use them directly from tubes for studio painting.  

I'm attracted to this because I can customize my palette easier than buying a set and not as many colours are available (locally) in pans as tubes.  Also I want to make homemade mini-pallets but that would involve non-standard-sized pans to hold the paint.  a bit like this: https://permies.com/t/219997/art/DIY-portable-watercolour-palette

Although the Winsor and Newton set looks amazing. https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000N9964Y/?coliid=I611T603YOZYY&colid=3HC6MW582FMGO&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it A bit pricy for me right now, but I've got it on my wishlist.


I've noticed I'm not able to get the strong colours or movement on the page with the starter set I'm using that I see online.  That's why I'm thinking of buying 3 to 5 student grade colours to try.