Permies In Geoff Lawton's 2014 online PDC

@Savannah - That is good news, I'm glad we were able to get some forward progress for you, I was getting concerned myself.

@Julia - I get notifications by email when someone replies to me, to something I commented on and if I receive a private message. Settings for this are located under your profile which I believe you most expediently reach by pressing "home" and looking under your avatar image for the button. I have not received email notification for activity from those I am following... and I should warn you that the "home page" does not go back very far into the past.

I went to try and find a comment I had made earlier in the day yesterday to copy parts into another answer and I could only see as far back as 2-3 of the threads I had been working in.

Julia, in your Profile, under Notifications, you have following options:

Change Your Email Subscription Settings:

Receive emails about new comments?
Receive emails about forum topics you follow?
Receive emails about new private messages?
Receive email broadcasts from the site admins?

Make sure that these are enabled, it works for me.

Yes, I enabled the 2nd, 3rd and 4th of those choices, but receiving emails about new comments sounded like an invitation for a flood, so I didn't check that one. I've gotten nothing, although now that I can check my "feed" I see that I've gotten responses to a couple of my comments.

The comments one is only those related to you I believe. I have mine on and only get replies and related responses, no blanket emails for every single new comment.

The comments feed is one of the features from the forums that actual works pretty well. The email comes with the comment so you don't have to go to the site. That part does not work well because it doesn't send you to the correct page, it always sends you to page 1 even if the comment is on page 16.

That's actually the #1 reason I use my "home page".

If I need to check which comment is being responded to that I just got the email for I pull up the home page and the most recent activity will be right there without having the search for it from the link in the email.

I find myself a little frustrated that the permies emails do not include the comment, but then I've seen some of the longer posts that get made here and maybe I should be grateful for that too

WEEK1 Q&A Videos are up http://members.permaculturedesigncourse.com/categories/160776

Wow. There's about 2.5 hours worth of Q&A.

Yeah Geoff really put some effort into this Q&A. Seems like last year for the intro Q&A the answers were only 1 or 2 sentences.


BTW, make sure you login through members.permaculturedesigncourse.com and not permaculturedesigncourse.com. In the second case you will be able to log in but won't be able to watch the videos. Happened to me many times...

Excellent Q&A for the first week. I would like to point out that not only Geoff's answers are great, but also people are coming up with really good questions

So I'm really enjoying the content of this course and I'm really wishing the knowledge would spread even more!

2000 students a year is great, but what if it reached 20,000 students? Don't we need that to reach the tipping point that will spread p


Then I wondered how it would be if Geoff had made the videos free for all to enjoy...

I'm guessing a lot more people would watch them, but would people take them as seriously? I know for myself that if this wasn't a PDC that cost me $997 I would probably only do a half-assed job of watching the videos and studying the materials. Then also I wouldn't have taken the course if Geoff didn't have his reputation.

Makes me think of how we can best spread the knowledge. Reputation, expertise, value, marketing seem to all be key.

Sam,

I believe that we should lead by example, so let's acquaint the knowledge, put it in use on the land and that should lure people towards us. They will be curious what we have done on our land and they will hopefully ask for advise.

It seems that we have excess of knowledge and information available these days in general, and what we are lacking is putting this knowledge and information into a good use.

There is absolutely a correlation between the cost for something and how much we value it.

At least, I know for sure that people UNDER value free/cheap things terribly.

Consider Geoff's position. Instead (really in addition to) of 3-5 classes of 20-30 students for slightly more investment of time and with some appropriate use of technology he can reach 1000+ easily. That's alright like the difference between a rocket to the moon and light speed warp right there. I believe he said last year's course by itself represented 20 years of students taking his face to face course. That's a pretty big deal.

Now it does not scale forever. More students mean more questions (and you see how he handles the q&a now) and more students mean more projects which I understand was already a slow and drawn out process just based on the sheer volume of them involved.

On paper that jump from 2000 to 20,000 is very easy, in practice it is much harder. Arguably the demand should only increase as more seeds reach more minds but perhaps there is a max. Should Geoff immediately try to max out PDC demand? Would that really do what we want? Nobody wants to hit that permaculture tipping point more than Geoff, but he wants to do it while maintaining the quality of the certified students and the integrity of the information presented in the course at the same time. We all represent a seed cast out on the wind. It's our job to help infect more minds and spread that word, whether we end up teaching our own courses (online or otherwise) or just leading by example and changing our communities from the inside out.

My personal take? Create a product or workshop below the level of the PDC. Practical applied backyard permaculture, individual modules, a bit simpler, designed to teach your average consumer some aspect of permaculture. You would be teaching, though perhaps not full blown PDCs and arguably you would be making a very large difference by converting minds most entrenched in the status quo culture.

Of course like so much else we design in permaculture, the limits are only those we impose on ourselves, a bit more imagination and some novel thinking and the next big explosion of permaculture knowledge might YOUR course/site/podcast/product.

Mike Leo wrote:There is absolutely a correlation between the cost for something and how much we value it.

At least, I know for sure that people UNDER value free/cheap things terribly.

Consider Geoff's position. Instead (really in addition to) of 3-5 classes of 20-30 students for slightly more investment of time and with some appropriate use of technology he can reach 1000+ easily. That's alright like the difference between a rocket to the moon and light speed warp right there. I believe he said last year's course by itself represented 20 years of students taking his face to face course. That's a pretty big deal.

Now it does not scale forever. More students mean more questions (and you see how he handles the q&a now) and more students mean more projects which I understand was already a slow and drawn out process just based on the sheer volume of them involved.

On paper that jump from 2000 to 20,000 is very easy, in practice it is much harder. Arguably the demand should only increase as more seeds reach more minds but perhaps there is a max. Should Geoff immediately try to max out PDC demand? Would that really do what we want? Nobody wants to hit that permaculture tipping point more than Geoff, but he wants to do it while maintaining the quality of the certified students and the integrity of the information presented in the course at the same time. We all represent a seed cast out on the wind. It's our job to help infect more minds and spread that word, whether we end up teaching our own courses (online or otherwise) or just leading by example and changing our communities from the inside out.

My personal take? Create a product or workshop below the level of the PDC. Practical applied backyard permaculture, individual modules, a bit simpler, designed to teach your average consumer some aspect of permaculture. You would be teaching, though perhaps not full blown PDCs and arguably you would be making a very large difference by converting minds most entrenched in the status quo culture.

Of course like so much else we design in permaculture, the limits are only those we impose on ourselves, a bit more imagination and some novel thinking and the next big explosion of permaculture knowledge might YOUR course/site/podcast/product.

I like the idea of own permaculture project or workshop very much. I see more and more such offers here, we have even "Academy" here where almost every weekend a workshop on a different topic is taking place, led by various teachers.

Geoff isn't only trying to teach people through this PDC format, but he is hoping that we become teachers and spread the word as well. He would actually be very disappointed if people become inactive in permaculture after taking the course. Instead, he wants us to become doers. Some will teach by example and some will take it steps beyond and teach classes formally. His idea isn't to spread the word entirely by himself, but by properly training people who then can go forth and spread the knowledge. Remember his quote from the introductory videos..."Knowledge that is not acted on lacks value."? I truely believe that he hopes that we first make our own life better through what we learn and then use the example of what we have accomplished as a way to excite and draw in others to the principles of permaculture.

Hi all. Jan D. here.
I'm beginning to feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. I don't get notifications on the course site. I don't know if it's my computer, their system, or if everyone is busy with all the new content.
I've put in a support ticket, they then asked if I had the right boxes ticked...I did used to get notifications.
Even on this site the last comment I see is from April 22. That makes me wonder if it's my computer.

I hope everyone's loving the course. I think it's great. I feel that I understand it until other students write very astute comments and questions, and I think, duh...I never thought of that. haha

Check your email and spam settings.

If you are getting the email and (like my gmail) it wants to file it in social or promotion instead of regular mail that may be it.

Of course normal spam filters could be an issue as well. If there is no sign of there being that sort of problem, I'd recommend creating a new address and adding that to the course for purposes of notifications and see if the problem persists.

I hope that helps.

Thanks, Mike. I've checked my junk mail, and nothing from the course is in there.
I used to get about ten email notifications a day.
Thanks for your suggestions.
You really do a lot for the course. I appreciate it!

savannah kay wrote:
I'm beginning to feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. I don't get notifications on the course site.

The site is not the best, for sure. I did the course last year & I get e-mail notifications if someone posts to a thread I have posted to - but that doesn't include the comments section of the videos. I think they must have cleared out all the comments from last year which is understandable but too bad. They should have archived them & made them searchable.

To see the Q&As you have to check back to see if new ones have been uploaded. Each section does list when they will open up.

Sam Boisseau wrote:So I'm really enjoying the content of this course and I'm really wishing the knowledge would spread even more!

2000 students a year is great, but what if it reached 20,000 students? Don't we need that to reach the tipping point that will spread p


Then I wondered how it would be if Geoff had made the videos free for all to enjoy...

I'm guessing a lot more people would watch them, but would people take them as seriously? I know for myself that if this wasn't a PDC that cost me $997 I would probably only do a half-assed job of watching the videos and studying the materials. Then also I wouldn't have taken the course if Geoff didn't have his reputation.

Makes me think of how we can best spread the knowledge. Reputation, expertise, value, marketing seem to all be key.

Hi Sam,

I'm taking the course too and really loving it. It's my 2nd PDC but I'm learning new things and expanding my understanding of things I already knew. I've been too busy with work and everything to chime in here yet but I finally got a day off.

In regards to your post, I agree that making the PDC free would create a lot of half-hearted students. For a grand, you really can't beat the education and resources you receive. Especially when you look at college tuition in the US. It's highway robbery for a substandard, in the box, one size fits none "edumacation".

Regarding getting the word out, I think that if each of us taught at least one other person we could have a big effect. If we taught a hundred or a thousand each we would really be getting the word out. I've thought about making up business cards with geofflawton.com permies.com and other permie websites to hand out to people if I hear them talking about ecology, conservation and the like. It might be a simple, low cost tool to spark more interest. We need more schools and demonstration sites, which is the reason for the PRI Master Plan which I hope to be a part of.

Speaking of the PRI Master Plan, has anyone seen the Xavier Hawk keynote from PC Voices about Permacredits? If this flies, it could be the ticket to funding a ton of new working ecovillages that are PC demo sites and education centers. I'm wondering if Paul knows anything about the validity of the whole Bitcoin platform since he's a computer savvy guy. I'd love to invest in them when the initial offering happens next month. Anybody else here in on this one? Maybe we could start a new thread on this and evaluate it there?

Joe DiMeglio wrote:I've thought about making up business cards with geofflawton.com permies.com and other permie websites to hand out to people if I hear them talking about ecology, conservation and the like. It might be a simple, low cost tool to spark more interest.

Why not buy a couple of decks of the Permaculture Playing Cards and hand those out (each card instead of a business card)?

Joe DiMeglio wrote:

Hi Sam,

I'm taking the course too and really loving it. It's my 2nd PDC but I'm learning new things and expanding my understanding of things I already knew. I've been too busy with work and everything to chime in here yet but I finally got a day off.

In regards to your post, I agree that making the PDC free would create a lot of half-hearted students. For a grand, you really can't beat the education and resources you receive. Especially when you look at college tuition in the US. It's highway robbery for a substandard, in the box, one size fits none "edumacation".

Regarding getting the word out, I think that if each of us taught at least one other person we could have a big effect. If we taught a hundred or a thousand each we would really be getting the word out. I've thought about making up business cards with geofflawton.com permies.com and other permie websites to hand out to people if I hear them talking about ecology, conservation and the like. It might be a simple, low cost tool to spark more interest. We need more schools and demonstration sites, which is the reason for the PRI Master Plan which I hope to be a part of.

Speaking of the PRI Master Plan, has anyone seen the Xavier Hawk keynote from PC Voices about Permacredits? If this flies, it could be the ticket to funding a ton of new working ecovillages that are PC demo sites and education centers. I'm wondering if Paul knows anything about the validity of the whole Bitcoin platform since he's a computer savvy guy. I'd love to invest in them when the initial offering happens next month. Anybody else here in on this one? Maybe we could start a new thread on this and evaluate it there?

The cost of the course is indeed way more accessible than an onsite course. I think eventually there could be some scholarships to make it accessible to low income people.

I like the idea of business cards with websites on it. Distributing single permies playing cards wouldn't be my thing though. I would rather give whole decks away.

I watched Geoff's tipping point presentation from PV1... He says that the tipping point would be around 14%. So we would need to reach 45 million people in the US alone. Thing is not a lot of his students become PDC teachers (maybe less than 1%). I don't think we need to have everyone become certified though.

Geoff seems to believe in having permaculture on the screen.With geofflawton.com he's generally got the right idea. Create some engaging video content, have people subscribe, and then send them more content. Have permaculture on their mind once a week.

I have two ideas on my mind:

1) We could try to become really good at creating viral videos that will be shared massively on social networks. Stuff like "How to Grow Chickens Without Buying them Grain" or "1 MILLION pounds of Food on 3 acres. 10,000 fish and 500 yards of compost!" seem to have some appeal. Then we need to make sure to have some of those people subscribe to permies.com etc

2) We could all make sure we document our little successes with our projects. Now, while this won't necessarily go viral, it is way more personal and if shared with your 200 social network friends some might want to learn a bit more. That's when we can send them to the right place.


Maybe this forum need a "Success Stories" section to encourage people to brag about their awesome permaculture work.

EDIT: there's already a "projects" forum on here! https://permies.com/forums/f-69/projects

I stayed up all night to get in the PDC as well!! But, I cheated since I work third shift.

Really enjoying the videos. I eagerly await when new ones come on Saturday.

Boy, there are lots of comments on TSP about the PermaEthos course selling out SO fast.
1,000 spots in less than 3 hours. When they say it opened at noon, was that EST or Dallas time?

I love the Geoff Lawton course and look forward to PermaEthos, taught by Josiah. I feel very lucky
to have the chance to learn in this way. (online, and by some great teachers)

And to have this site, Permies. Thanks for providing this way of communicating. I love that you are
working together for the sake of permaculture, Paul. Thank you!
Jan D. (#947)

As fast as I could do the initial signup I still only logged at #185. That means we broke 200 before 30 minutes had passed (it started at 1pm EST so 12 Dallas time).

By the time I had chatted with my wife and she decided we could afford (and she wanted to) get a second "seat" her spot was #511. So it was to 200 in 30 minutes and halfway gone in less than an hour. Mega mega interest.

Mike-mega mega interest

Feels GREAT that the interest is there, huh? It's inspiring to find it online, and I'm extremely happy to have my husband join me. That's the best!
I'm living in a vacuum, (just outside DC ----I haven't found much reality here)
Jan D.

Hey folks..

here is an update from Geoffs people. I posted this at the beginning of this thread as well but wanted to put it here too so people just reading through will see it. It is related to how long the website will be open for your perusal and an extension on presenting your design..so you have ample time to get it done.

The course will be online and available until the end of the year. If you do not do your design this year you cannot do it in the next course. There is no guarantee you will be allowed back in as an observer as students were this year. We are going to extend the deadline for submissions this year to 6 weeks that is until August 16 but we will not be allowing any extensions.

Would be nice to share some design images here if people have any done..maybe you can post it here after you have submitted it officially.

Trying to keep up..I have found a cool program called Enounce MySpeed which allows you to speed up online videos.

Here is a 7 day trial.
http://www.enounce.com/download-myspeed

you can now watch Geoffs Videos at a much faster speed so you can watch them in real time and review them in faster time..or watch them all in faster time if you have fallen behind.

Well, I've submitted my little design! My time has been limited with work, so I did a design on my bosses property and focussed on improving zones 1,2 and 3. Geoff said in the video that if they needed more information they would ask for it, so I guess I'll wait and see what happens!

Phew. Now I need to pack for our family trip to Idaho tomorrow. Hmmm, or sleep first.

I think the description and the analysis of the site in the design I submitted were okay. I also think the map of my design is decent. I had to rush at the end and so I didn't have a very good written description of what was going on in my design. Hopefully they can read my mind from the map.

I was in the same boat…felt my design and map were okay, but was worried my description wasn’t going to be detailed enough. The problem I had with the description is that it’s permaculture! I could have written a book detailing every decision and highlighting every interaction between elements, but instead cut it off and handed it in last week. I remembered him saying that our design was not a test, but an exercise.

That being said, I received an email today congratulating me on completion of the course, saying that my design had been received, reviewed and assessed, and that I should receive my certificate in 10 days!

glad to hear that others were in a similar state of mind, I think i even wrote at one point about abbreviating my descriptions because of the nature of the exercise.

I spent a whole lot of time though on the main frame, i knew a couple things i really wanted, i wanted high water, and a rice paddy

I found a place where a smaller gulley joined the main gulley, and even though it had only 4 acres of catchment (including extensions of swales, i went ahead and designed it in. with the comment that i would consider the dam a success even if it only half filled, since the bottom of the dam still would feed my cistern and water all my gardens, but i do expect that over time both the main gulley dams will fill, although since they are pretty high on the landscape, they may go down during drought and even normal summers, but it will still give me lots of water that is currently just running down the hill and out the creek

The paddy site i've been looking at is lower down, and a perfect contour dam site--somewhat level, and the conour line connects nicely around to the lower dam in the main gulley as well as to a gulley not totally on my property all the way around the ridge, but the neighbors cool with it, so it looks like that dam will work as well

and while i was walking around, i found a perfect place for a ridge point dam , and a swale from it can overflow down the main crop slopes and to the rice paddy, as well as the food forest

so considering all that time i spent many multiples of the 10 hrs he said his classroom students usually spent-- i even went out with an A frame to verify that google earth is crap at elevation--if you are having doubts compare with the usgs maps, they seemed a little closer to reality

i think google earth has problems registering tree heights as terrain elevations --just a warning to the unwary

anyway, i've been rewatching videos, and the site is down, anyone else notice?

It seems that all of Geoff's sites are down. I hope it's just maintenance. Those resources are pretty valuable. I wanted to re watch the earthworks and reading landscapes courses again. After doing the regular course material and finishing up my design, I was pretty burnt out on permaculture. Yeah... it's possible. I'm sure I missed a lot of detail in those other courses as my head was already spinning from data overload. Though, I do feel pretty good about my design exercise. We'll see how it goes.

I'm also hoping that the site didn't just crash. That would be a bummer.

I got an email confirming that I graduated and that my certificate is on the way! It had been so long that I was starting to get worried.

congrats, hang in there mine took about three weeks or so to get in the mail even though they said ten days,

I got my email a few days ago, I suppose it will be quite a while until the certificate shows up. Does anybody know how many students there were in the online course this year?

I think there were around 2000, which is a lot of work to assess!

My certificate arrived a couple of days ago. I think people who finished early had theirs marked early. Mine was sent at the last minute (but hey, I finished!) so it was probably near the back of queue. I'd guess yours will arrive soon.

I got my email the other day too, sounds like I wasn't the only one to submit it at the deadline