Search...
Home Subscribe
Pie
Home Subscribe
Recent topics Flagged topics Hot topics Best topics
Search...
Search within plants Search permies
Advance search Google search
Register / Login
What is a rocket mass heater? Full Permaculture Design course and Appropriate Technology Course video Clean with Cleaners You Can Eat - Free ebook Better wood heat - rocket mass heaters Tour of Wheaton Labs Movie, hosted by Paul Wheaton
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
Clean with Cleaners You Can Eat - Free ebook Better Wood Heat DIY Rocket Mass Heater DVD permaculture bootcamp design SKIP=SKills to Inherit Property PEP Permaculture Experience According to Paul Paul Wheaton Tour of Wheaton Labs movie
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Leigh Tate
  • jordan barton
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Nicole Alderman
stewards:
  • r ranson
  • paul wheaton
  • Greg Martin
master gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Jay Angler
gardeners:
  • Nancy Reading
  • Mike Barkley
  • L. Johnson

Nitrogen fixing corn discovery

 
Cris Bessette
gardener
Posts: 903
Location: North Georgia / Appalachian mountains , Zone 7B/8A
49
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

A type of nitrogen fixing corn that is native to Mexico that might be big thing in the coming years.  


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/corn-future-hundreds-years-old-and-makes-its-own-mucus-180969972/
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 6749
Location: Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
1475
I like...
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken writing homestead
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This link is to the whole paper in downloadable PDF form. Plosbiology

Redhawk

List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.

 
Greg Martin
steward
Posts: 2832
Location: Maine, zone 5
1410
3
I like...
forest garden trees food preservation solar wood heat homestead
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Joseph Lofthouse….are you getting seeds to add to your landraces?  :)

Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden

 
Greg Martin
steward
Posts: 2832
Location: Maine, zone 5
1410
3
I like...
forest garden trees food preservation solar wood heat homestead
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The idea of 20' tall corn growing in terrible soil by fixing it's own nitrogen is pretty darned fantastic!

Now it just needs to be a short season, cold hardy perennial!

Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden

 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 6749
Location: Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
1475
I like...
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken writing homestead
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So far corn growing to 20 feet sounds great but I think it would be better to have each stalk put off 6 ears of corn rather than the usual 2 or 3 ears.
I can see this research heading to such a point that we can grow more produce in less space than we are currently able, that would lessen the acreage needed for feed corn, people eating corn and fuel corn.
I can also see this research being utilized to create many other crops that used the part of the genome for nitrogen fixing mucus generating air roots.

Redhawk

List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.

 
Chris Kott
pollinator
Posts: 3842
Location: Toronto, Ontario
553
4
I like...
hugelkultur dog forest garden fungi trees rabbit urban wofati cooking bee homestead
posted 3 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would love to see six ears on each stalk, but if that happened 10 to 20 feet off the ground, that would be great for animal pressure.

Of course, you know what happens to sweet things in nature. Something comes along and thinks it's delicious. I could hope that the mucus would become a favourite of pollinators, but in all likelihood, if you pack that much sweetness into one place, something is going to come to eat it, and in numbers.

Especially, I think, if this new corn with sweet mucus-spewing air roots, or whatever plants are bred with this new innovation, is widely adopted in places where no such food abundance was possible.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see these new air roots on heavy feeders like squash or beets, or anything that doesn't go veggie when too much nitrogen is present. But I would urge caution, and expect unintended consequences.

-CK

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

 
Joseph Lofthouse
steward
Posts: 5732
Location: Cache Valley, zone 4b, Irrigated, 9" rain in badlands.
2319
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Greg Martin wrote:Joseph Lofthouse….are you getting seeds to add to your landraces?  :)



My collaboration network has checked our corns. We are already growing the mucus producing corns. Seems to be a heritage trait that The Conglomerate has eliminated in their corns. People like me, that are growing traditional corn, still have the trait in our landraces.

We haven't actually tested the mucus to see if it contains nitrogen. Test kits are commonly available in nursery stores, so we might do the testing one of these days.

In studying my corn with this trait in mind, there is also a pocket of moisture near the leaf nodes. I suspect that area might provide better conditions for the growth of the nitrogen fixing bacteria. The plants are extending root tips into that area.

corn-air-roots.jpg
[Thumbnail for corn-air-roots.jpg]
Nitrogen fixing corn roots?

Landrace Gardening, author
World Tomato Society, ambassador
Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder

 
Greg Martin
steward
Posts: 2832
Location: Maine, zone 5
1410
3
I like...
forest garden trees food preservation solar wood heat homestead
posted 3 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Fantastic Joseph!  Would be interesting to see if seeds from the plants expressing this trait perform well on poor soil.  Which of your landraces have this?

I wonder if anyone has tested the protein content of the corn and the amino acid mix.  Would be neat if this corn has complete protein, at least one might expect this corn to have higher protein content.

Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden

 
Joseph Lofthouse
steward
Posts: 5732
Location: Cache Valley, zone 4b, Irrigated, 9" rain in badlands.
2319
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Greg Martin wrote:Fantastic Joseph!  Would be interesting to see if seeds from the plants expressing this trait perform well on poor soil.  Which of your landraces have this?



All of my landraces have some degree or other of this trait in them. I haven't been selecting specifically for this trait, but not against it either. They might be self-selecting to some degree, because I do not add fertilizers, composts, or mulches to my fields. The trait is more prevalent in  Harmony grain corn, Unity flour corn, and high carotene flint corn. They have a higher concentration of South American genetics in them, and are larger/taller plants than the sweet corn populations where the trait isn't so prevalent.

One reason for which this trait might be selected against, is that the knot of roots doesn't break apart easily, or break down easily, so the knot persists in the garden well into the next growing season, even with tilling.

Landrace Gardening, author
World Tomato Society, ambassador
Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder

 
Joseph Lofthouse
steward
Posts: 5732
Location: Cache Valley, zone 4b, Irrigated, 9" rain in badlands.
2319
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The other place where I think that nitrogen fixing bacteria might live. Especially in an arid climate like mine, is inside the leaves that surround the nodes. There are air-roots in this area, as well as moisture.
corn-air-roots-interior.jpg
[Thumbnail for corn-air-roots-interior.jpg]
Possible location of nitrogen fixing bacteria, in the moist area around the leaf nodes.

Landrace Gardening, author
World Tomato Society, ambassador
Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder

 
Tj Jefferson
pollinator
Posts: 1341
Location: Virginia USDA 7a/b
337
3
I like...
hugelkultur forest garden hunting chicken food preservation bee
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Just replying to follow. But this is incredible. Thanks for the link to the paper Dr Redhawk.

Standing on the shoulders of giants. Giants with dirt under their nails

 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 18169
Location: Pacific Northwest
8581
7
I like...
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So, if someone wants some nitrogen-fixing corn, buying some of Joseph's landraces is a great place to start!

You rock, Joseph!

Edit: Do you know which of your sweet corns has the most nodules? Or, can the flint, grain, or flour corn be eaten as sweet corn? I obviously don't know much about corn!

~ Dragons, Fairies and even a Mini-Paul! ~ You Know You're a Permie When...~ All About Permies, including tutorials ~Herbal Hugel Spiral of Randomness!~Tricks to Keep the Dirt from Sliding off a Hugel~List of Cascadia Bloggers and Facebook Pages!~

 
Joseph Lofthouse
steward
Posts: 5732
Location: Cache Valley, zone 4b, Irrigated, 9" rain in badlands.
2319
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Thanks Nicole.

Nicole Alderman wrote:Do you know which of your sweet corns has the most nodules? Or, can the flint, grain, or flour corn be eaten as sweet corn? I obviously don't know much about corn!



Too funny!!! I was intending to pick my corns this year, and pay attention to this trait, and  select for the largest best developed air-roots. And I have already picked 3 of the 8 varieties without it even occurring to me in the field. There are so many selection criteria already!!! I still have one sweet corn to pick. It's got the highest percentage of South American genetics in it, so maybe I'll remember to pay attention.

For the most part, the flint and gain corns are hard and fibrous, even while young. The flour corns can be enjoyable as sweet corn, but I gotta catch them at just the right moment. The sweet corns are enjoyable for weeks. The flour corns for days.

Landrace Gardening, author
World Tomato Society, ambassador
Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder

 
Greg Martin
steward
Posts: 2832
Location: Maine, zone 5
1410
3
I like...
forest garden trees food preservation solar wood heat homestead
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Joseph, if you do collect seeds from sweet corn with air roots and are interested in seeing how they do in a humid environment then I have that here in Maine!  My silver dimes are ready to ship!!!  Thank you again for the great stuff you're doing.  :)

Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden

 
Creighton Samuels
Posts: 543
34
3
posted 3 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was thinking of repurposing some of my large front yard into a three sisters corn spiral this spring.  But I'd love to try this cultivar, if actually available.
 
Don Tipping
Posts: 2
Location: SW Oregon
4
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This is an interesting discussion. Aerial roots on landrace corn with diverse genetics is common. We have at least a dozen strain of indigenous corn with this trait. Using the term Nitrogen fixing can be misleading. My colleague, and fellow plant breeder, Walter Goldstein of of the Mandaamin Institute in Wisconsin prefers the term “Nitrogen Efficient “ and has been doing large scale field trials with this trait crossed into modern field corns from the landrace Mexican strains. The mucus observations are correct, but little is understood about the precise mechanisms for transporting atmospheric Nitrogen into the soil in a meaningful way, although it’s thought to be an association with endophytic bacteria. It’s worth exploring Goldstein’s work in this regard.
I too admire the work of Joseph Lofthouse and think that much undiscovered benefit lie within growing diverse populations rather than uniform hybrid prima Donnas.
Check out the Mandaamin website. https://www.mandaamin.org/

For the Earth,
Don Tipping

 
Xisca Nicolas
pollinator
Posts: 1981
Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11
2
I like...
purity forest garden tiny house wofati bike solar
posted 3 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Joseph, I am interested and I am also in a dry climate.

i can also help with local corn, we have local varieties, and I can check if they have this charactericitic, if only I know how to check!

My goal is to feed animals first. I have imported organic corn, so it costs me 17 E for 25 kgs, much more than chemical gmo corn!

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

 
Fish Farley
Posts: 28
Location: Zone 8b TEXAS
14
posted 2 years ago
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello! First time posting here.

I am growing 4 varieties of corn in the same patch. Oaxacan green, Hopi Pink, Hopi Turqoise and Hopi Blue. First 3 from baker creek seeds and the hopi blue from native seeds search.

I read about Joseph Lofthouse's corn varieties and enjoyed how easy he made it sound to make a landrace. So I decided  to attempt to make an acclimatized variety to my area by open pollinating these 4 varieties.

It looks like this one plant so far is developing this trait and the fluid is oozing from the aerial roots. i'll try to attach a photo...
root1.jpg
[Thumbnail for root1.jpg]
root1
root2.jpg
[Thumbnail for root2.jpg]
 
Greg Martin
steward
Posts: 2832
Location: Maine, zone 5
1410
3
I like...
forest garden trees food preservation solar wood heat homestead
posted 2 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you Fish!  Lovely :)  Do you know which variety this one came from?  Or have you already done the crossing in a previous year and this is from the crossed pool?

Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden

 
Fish Farley
Posts: 28
Location: Zone 8b TEXAS
14
posted 2 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ha, I knew that was going to be asked. I don't know which one it is yet. Because when I sowed the corn I intermixed the green, blue, turquoise, and pink seeds into the same holes. I put about 5 seeds in each hole and then thinned it to about 3 mature plants. I'm guessing that it is the oaxacan green on the reason it is pretty much taller than all the others. And as far as I know the hopi corn plants can be relatively short. Also the tassels and ears are yellow/green, not red/purple/pink colored like many of the other plants.

I'm very curious how the ears will turn out. I've never grown corn and have never intentionally crossbred several colors. So it's all an experiment. I'm also not watering the corn at all. It's interplanted with beans and 3 different watermelon varieties that I am also open pollinating for future acclimatized seeds. Ledmon, Ali Baba and Bradford. I feel like that one can't lose. Very delicious and old varieties that can handle the heat in Texas.
 
Fish Farley
Posts: 28
Location: Zone 8b TEXAS
14
posted 2 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It is the tall plant in center. They're about 2 1/2 months from seed.
plant.jpg
[Thumbnail for plant.jpg]
 
Mike Kenzie
pollinator
Posts: 391
Location: wanderer
165
I like...
forest garden fungi foraging bike homestead
posted 2 years ago
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was in a Mayan village recently & saw aerial root corn growing in one of their milpa plots. I asked them about the aerial roots & they said that they had been selecting for them because the stalks do not tend to break as easily during heavy winds. The aerial roots can oftentimes serve as support limbs against the heavy winds.
When I touched the aerial root tips they were indeed quite mucousy!

Worm Bin Design Plans | BackyardRegeneration.com | Permaculture Classes | Fungi | Composting | Consulting

 
No thanks. We have all the government we need. This tiny ad would like you to leave now:
Building a Better World in your Backyard by Paul Wheaton and Shawn Klassen-Koop
https://permies.com/w/better-world
reply
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!
Similar Threads
More...