John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt
Idle dreamer
John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt
Idle dreamer
John C Daley wrote:Tyler,I don't agree, at the end of the day, local authorities need cash to pay wages and for materials for the good work the community expects them to carry out.
Somebody has to pay cash, bartering to replace a water main or fix a pothole will not work.
Doing work at a local church working bee, does not replace the needs of the local authority for cash payment and can not be accepted as suitable effort
to contribute to the costs of running the municipality.
If may count for brownie points in some peoples eyes and I guess thats ok forthem, but not myself.
Come join me at www.peacockorchard.com
John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt
John C Daley wrote:
I was thinking people were choosing to cut back simply for lifestyle reasons and expect welfare.
Idle dreamer
Canberra Permaculture - My Blog - Wild Cheesemaking - Aquaponics - Korean Natural Farming
Gurkan Yeniceri wrote:
If you are truly nomad, own nothing, roam around and eat what you find, you can then be out of this system
Idle dreamer
Travis Johnson wrote:
A case in point is where I live. Here 60% of the population works for the school, and so when a school budget is developed it immediately passes because so many people's paychecks are at stake. The problem is 75%, of that school budget is based on local property taxes, and with a school budget that does not get any form of reality check, property taxes have skyrocketed.
It is now to the point where local farmers cannot compete on their limited scale of farming, and so only the bigger farms with the economy of scale can pay the property taxes. The small farmers are gone, the mid-level farmers are struggling, and we are talking farms that have been here in existence for some 100 plus years. My own farm is 280 years old and it is all I can do to pay the property taxes. The exact number is $10,200 a year in US currency, about $200 a week just to keep what I got. In livestock terms, that is (2) lambs per week going to slaughter without paying other taxes, feeding my family, or paying for other expenses.
Tyler Ludens wrote:
You might still be using public roads to move around...
Canberra Permaculture - My Blog - Wild Cheesemaking - Aquaponics - Korean Natural Farming
John C Daley wrote:I notice very few people collect rainfall in North America to use and rely on wells.
J Anders wrote:Holy cow!!! Where are you at again and how many acres? I might have seen but I've forgotten.
John C Daley wrote:I have to disagree about water and black water systems, I believe there is an good case to prove large scale systems are practical and cost effective.
In Australia in the 109702 we had massive pollution of waterways from septic tanks that were not working or there were simply too many in a given area. I notice very few people collect rainfall in North America to use and rely on wells. From what I can see, in closer communities reticulated water is practical, no dust borne pollution, usually supply at all times and cost effective compared with tanks etc.
Travis Johnson wrote:it is staggering to think that 104 lambs have to be sent to slaughter every year JUST to pay for property taxes alone.
Living a life that requires no vacation.
John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt
Living a life that requires no vacation.
Stacy Witscher wrote: Property tax doesn't require an active transaction. I didn't do anything, my property is taxed just for still being mine, that's weird.
Idle dreamer
Living a life that requires no vacation.
Travis Johnson wrote:We should collect rainfall probably, but unlike Australia, we have a deep aquifer and thus do not have too. This sounds strange, but because of global warming, in the State of Maine we are actually increasing our already high rainfall per year by an additional 5 inches of rain. Add in snowmelt from deeper winter snows (last year was the 4th highest snowfall on record) and we are in really great shape in terms of aquifer. Now I know this is not the case in Australia, but that is the problem when we start being judgmental of how others do things.
'Every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain.'
John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt
John C Daley wrote:BUT, compared with wells I think its better, IF the ground does not freeze.
But it begs the question, how do the wells wok if the ground is frozen?
Does the lower level of the water means its not cold enough to freeze and get to the house somehow?
Joseph Lofthouse wrote:From a purely pragmatic standpoint, those people that choose to not work for money, are casting a vote. They are voting for less money to be spent on roads, schools, social projects, etc. In a true and honest democracy, their vote is as valid as the vote of those people who vote to spend their lives paying for roads, schools, libraries, welfare, etc. My personal preference favors gravel roads over paved. My hometown doesn't even have stop/yield signs on intersections. That pleases me.
"People get out your way, when you're on fire". Richard Prior
Tyler,I don't agree, at the end of the day, local authorities need cash to pay wages and for materials for the good work the community expects them to carry out.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who want to be left alone and those who will not leave them alone.
From a purely pragmatic standpoint, those people that choose to not work for money, are casting a vote. They are voting for less money to be spent on roads, schools, social projects, etc. In a true and honest democracy, their vote is as valid as the vote of those people who vote to spend their lives paying for roads, schools, libraries, welfare, etc. My personal preference favors gravel roads over paved. My hometown doesn't even have stop/yield signs on intersections. That pleases me.
Travis Johnson wrote:Permiculturaly speaking, we should all be reducing our dependence on water mains and black water systems so that they are directed to much lofty end goals then a city life, and water treatment plants, not rallying behind the ill-fated concept that larger government would only work better if it got even bigger.
A case in point is where I live. Here 60% of the population works for the school, and so when a school budget is developed it immediately passes because so many people's paychecks are at stake. The problem is 75%, of that school budget is based on local property taxes, and with a school budget that does not get any form of reality check, property taxes have skyrocketed.
It is now to the point where local farmers cannot compete on their limited scale of farming, and so only the bigger farms with the economy of scale can pay the property taxes. The small farmers are gone, the mid-level farmers are struggling, and we are talking farms that have been here in existence for some 100 plus years. My own farm is 280 years old and it is all I can do to pay the property taxes. The exact number is $10,200 a year in US currency, about $200 a week just to keep what I got. In livestock terms, that is (2) lambs per week going to slaughter without paying other taxes, feeding my family, or paying for other expenses.
Is it an honor to pay property taxes? It sure is, and a duty, and what modern society is based upon, but only if they are kept to reasonable levels.
Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:it is staggering to think that 104 lambs have to be sent to slaughter every year JUST to pay for property taxes alone.
It took 800 dozen ears of corn to pay the property taxes on my 2 acre field.
Stacy Witscher wrote:Typically one is taxed when something happens. If I make money, the income is taxed. If I buy something, the purchase is taxed. If I sell stock or real property, the profit is taxed. These are all transactions. Property tax doesn't require an active transaction. I didn't do anything, my property is taxed just for still being mine, that's weird.
Norma Guy wrote:
Don't know how much longer I can actually keep this up. Now we joke about winning the lottery. I want to build my dreams, but if I keep going like this just to make the money we will need, I fear I may not be around to enjoy the fruits of all this labour for money. I'm living my nightmare to get to my dream. It's like purgatory. Am I doing it wrong? I really just want to grow foodThat's all I've ever wanted.
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