Forum:

permaculture

Tall plants for a narrow space

Lauren Ritz

pollinator

Posts: 890

Location: Kansas

237

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I have a narrow space between a wall and a sidewalk. It's probably a foot wide at its widest. I wanted to plant a fruit tree hedge, to go two to three feet over the top of the wall (easy to trim, food producing, and forming a visual barrier to the front yard) but I'm concerned about the tree roots so I'm looking for other suggestions. I still WANT to do the fruit tree hedge, but I don't think it's going to happen.

The cement wall is 4 - 5 feet tall. I can't do grapes because of the narrow space. They would take over the sidewalk. It has to be something drought tolerant, perennial, and produce something. Preferably growing two to three feet over the top of the wall. So far my brain has come up with pistachio, filberts, and passionfruit. I will be planting gojiberry down there to see how it does, but that won't be the primary plant.

Front-wall.jpg

New location. Zone 6b, acid soil, 30+ inches of water per year.
https://growingmodernlandraces.thinkific.com/?ref=b1de16
Growingmodernlandraces.com affiliate

Mike Haasl

steward

Posts: 15981

Location: Northern WI (zone 4)

5101

I like...

posted 7 years ago

1
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Not that this is much help but I think filberts get pretty wide (10+'). At least hazelnuts do.

I make a Maple Syrup instructional movie! Check it out HERE
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie

round wood woodworking - sand badge (verified skill)
Skill verified by paul wheaton

animal care - sand badge (verified skill)
Skill verified by Nicole Alderman

woodland care - sand badge (verified skill)
Skill verified by Nicole Alderman

natural medicine - sand badge (verified skill)
Skill verified by Mike Barkley

dimensional lumber woodworking - sand badge (verified skill)
Skill verified by Mike Barkley

natural building - sand badge (verified skill)
Skill verified by Mike Barkley

electricity - sand badge (verified skill)
Skill verified by Mike Barkley

metalworking - sand badge (verified skill)
Skill verified by Ash Jackson

Lauren Ritz

pollinator

Posts: 890

Location: Kansas

237

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

OK. Thanks. They'll essentially be espaliered, so the main concern would be root mass--would the roots disturb either the wall or the sidewalk? The filberts I've had before (they died last summer) had a pretty small rootmass and one big taproot.

New location. Zone 6b, acid soil, 30+ inches of water per year.
https://growingmodernlandraces.thinkific.com/?ref=b1de16
Growingmodernlandraces.com affiliate

Mike Haasl

steward

Posts: 15981

Location: Northern WI (zone 4)

5101

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Gotcha... I have no idea about the roots, sorry. Can you put up a trellis for vining plants? That may give you another option or two.

I make a Maple Syrup instructional movie! Check it out HERE
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie

Lauren Ritz

pollinator

Posts: 890

Location: Kansas

237

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I could. The plant would have to have a relatively small spread so as not to go over the sidewalk (the city gets sticky about that). The trellis would have to fit directly against the wall in order to allow sufficient space. I was wondering about something that would climb the wall by itself, but I can't think of anything that fits all the criteria.

New location. Zone 6b, acid soil, 30+ inches of water per year.
https://growingmodernlandraces.thinkific.com/?ref=b1de16
Growingmodernlandraces.com affiliate

Tim Kivi

pollinator

Posts: 365

posted 7 years ago

1
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

How about berries, like raspberries? They grow about as tall as an adult, won't grow out of control and you trim them in the winter.

Bananas have soft roots, and there are dwarf varieties that grow to just 3 meters (9'). Their leaves are wide though.

Domhnall Currie

Posts: 1

Location: Georgia

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

You couldn't do some type of grape and prune them to not start until they reach a trellis on top of the wall? I have many wild muscadines on my property that the vines snake WAAAAYYYY up in the trees. Whether it's the deer eating them at ground level or they just don't put out until they reach sunshine, the top of the trees, maybe 20-30' up are just full of muscadines. The vines at ground level, some of them are 3-4" in diameter. It's frustrating because all I can eat are the ones that fall on the ground.

If you could get your vine up to the top of the wall and then train it all over a trellis up there, that would provide your screen. 'Course maybe that defeats the purpose and you could just plant the vine up on top of the wall in the first place. Look up the local extension agent for your area and ask them about a fruit plant with a deep root that doesn't spread out too much. They're very knowledgeable about what grows best in your area.

Scott Foster

pollinator

Posts: 888

Location: 6a

284

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I like the idea of doing a vine. Grapes are good. Maybe an heirloom or Lady Banks rose. You would be pruning and training both onto a trellis. Possibly, Sunchoke/Jerusalem Artichoke (they grow straight up). A perennial flowerbed and/or Herbs. A mix of Alpine strawberries and Rhubarb.

You could espalier just about any dwarf-fruit-tree.

I would not do bush berries of any kind, that's just me though. I have a raspberry patch that has quadrupled in size by sending out runners. You would be constantly trimming berries. Blackberries, no way. Bwa Ha ha, they grow like an alien.

I was thinking of blueberries, there are dwarf varieties, but even my dwarfs send out 5 ft runners. My goji berry is about 12 ft tall and gangly as all get out, probably not the best unless you tie it or trellis it.

If it were me I would probably do an heirloom rose or espalier a fruit tree, just because they are so beautiful. You could companion plant the rose trellis with a vining vegetable until it fills in. This year I did cucumbers next to my baby roses and neither seemed to mind.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Scott

Anne Miller

steward

Posts: 17839

Location: USDA Zone 8a

4550

I like...

posted 7 years ago

2
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

That is a beautiful retaining wall!

If it was mine, I would do some sort of edible perennial vines with both flowers and fruits. Something to compliment the wall would be nice. Like the passion fruit, you mentioned. Maybe kiwi, malabar spinach, chayote and nasturtiums. Strawberries would make a nice ground cover.

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

Tereza Okava

steward & manure connoisseur

Posts: 4611

Location: South of Capricorn

2600

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

passionfruit would probably love that wall if it catches and holds warmth.

William Bronson

gardener

Posts: 5493

Location: Cincinnati, Ohio,Price Hill 45205

1153

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Prickly pear!

Eating Bindweed
Eating Buckwheat Greens
Paul explains why I spend time here,better than I could myself.

Lauren Ritz

pollinator

Posts: 890

Location: Kansas

237

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Tereza Okava wrote:passionfruit would probably love that wall if it catches and holds warmth.

It does catch the sun quite well. It faces south-east and catches the morning sun, so it's the first place to warm up in the morning and shaded from the worst of the afternoon sun.

New location. Zone 6b, acid soil, 30+ inches of water per year.
https://growingmodernlandraces.thinkific.com/?ref=b1de16
Growingmodernlandraces.com affiliate

Tereza Okava

steward & manure connoisseur

Posts: 4611

Location: South of Capricorn

2600

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I would be concerned about safety and (i live in a city with a lot of stray dogs, forgive me) dog urine. So strawberries/ground edibles would be out. Passionfruit is easy to guide and you don't have to worry about the roots tripping anyone or it dropping stuff someone might slip on.
However, the problem with passionfruit is that they don't live that long. I'm on maybe my 3rd, I live in a temperate climate (USDA 9B, we get a few frosts and enough rain) and they die after a few years. You figure it till take a good three years to make a visual barrier (vines: 1 year sleep, 1 year creep, 1 year leap). Then if you're lucky you have a few more years til it decides to roll over, and you have to start again. I love my passionfruits, but if it were my space I'd go with something like nuts, so you don't lose your time investment.

(maybe I'm doing something wrong. Passionfruits are grown commercially here and the recommendation is to rip the vines out after 5 years, though, so I don't think I'm too far off the mark).

Lauren Ritz

pollinator

Posts: 890

Location: Kansas

237

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Tereza Okava wrote:I would be concerned about safety and (i live in a city with a lot of stray dogs, forgive me) dog urine. So strawberries/ground edibles would be out. Passionfruit is easy to guide and you don't have to worry about the roots tripping anyone or it dropping stuff someone might slip on.
However, the problem with passionfruit is that they don't live that long. I'm on maybe my 3rd, I live in a temperate climate (USDA 9B, we get a few frosts and enough rain) and they die after a few years. You figure it till take a good three years to make a visual barrier (vines: 1 year sleep, 1 year creep, 1 year leap). Then if you're lucky you have a few more years til it decides to roll over, and you have to start again. I love my passionfruits, but if it were my space I'd go with something like nuts, so you don't lose your time investment.

(maybe I'm doing something wrong. Passionfruits are grown commercially here and the recommendation is to rip the vines out after 5 years, though, so I don't think I'm too far off the mark).

Good points. I'm not planning on strawberries--the lowest I'm considering for this area is goji, which has thorns.

I figure the passionfruit is worth a try. I can "root" runners each year for a continuing supply and just see how it does. I have seeds and starts right now, so nothing is lost if it dies except a few minutes of my time.

New location. Zone 6b, acid soil, 30+ inches of water per year.
https://growingmodernlandraces.thinkific.com/?ref=b1de16
Growingmodernlandraces.com affiliate

Lauren Ritz

pollinator

Posts: 890

Location: Kansas

237

I like...

posted 7 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I pulled the sand out for about a foot down, mixed in mulch/leaves/etc and put it back to about four inches below the level of the sidewalk.

We had a storm last night and this area got a lot of water, the water line maybe 2 feet up the wall. In the area where I pulled the soil out it was still wet a good foot down. I didn't go any deeper. The water just skimmed over the rest and wet maybe the top 1/2 inch. As a bonus, the storm also brought in a bunch of debris and leaves to fill the vacated space almost up to the level of the sidewalk. So today I finished digging out the area in question so any future storms will store the water rather than diverting it.

We get storms like this maybe two or three times a year, so if I can catch that water then anything relatively drought tolerant, cold tolerant, and heat tolerant :) should do fine. Once I decide what to grow I'll be putting in pipes to force the water even deeper.

New location. Zone 6b, acid soil, 30+ inches of water per year.
https://growingmodernlandraces.thinkific.com/?ref=b1de16
Growingmodernlandraces.com affiliate

Lauren Ritz

pollinator

Posts: 890

Location: Kansas

237

I like...

posted 4 years ago

2
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I'm needing to pull out the rest of the hedge sooner rather than later, as the roots are getting into our sewer lines. I've been doing it a piece at a time. The goji is doing OK, not spreading as I'd like but spreading. I'll need to help it.

Most of the fruit trees died, chopped back by helpful neighbors or insufficient water for the seedlings. I still have one peach that is doing great. It got chopped back with the rest but survived, and since being chopped back it's developed a bush form, which is perfect. I should have some grape vines ready for transplant by fall. I can put in garlic/rye and tansy for tree protection, spread the gojis to take care of the understory, and slowly build up the rest. Saffron crocuses for fall interest, other flowers for spring. I WISH those trees had worked.

New location. Zone 6b, acid soil, 30+ inches of water per year.
https://growingmodernlandraces.thinkific.com/?ref=b1de16
Growingmodernlandraces.com affiliate

Would you turn that thing down? I'm controlling a mind here! Look ... look at the tiny ad ...

The new gardening playing cards kickstarter is now live!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paulwheaton/garden-cards