Cushions for the rocket bench

Hello everyone,

We have the typical j-tube rocket mass heater, with a barrel for a bell and a bench. It works really well and we heat our home exclusively with it

So, the reason I'm writing!: the bench is really comfortable during the warmer seasons and during the day, when the fire died out early the previous evening. But it's too hot to sit on when the fire is lit in the evening, when we really want to sit on it. So, quite a number of years ago, we salvaged couch cushions to put some distance between us and the bench. And then we realized that we were melting the foam in the cushions. So I folded up a couple of wool blankets to put a bit more distance between the foam and the rocket. We still think the foam gets a bit too hot, but it doesn't smell like it's melting.

Anyway, the couch cushions are ugly and don't match, so they were always going to be temporary and I got a cotton canvas tissue to recover them initially. That they were melting eliminated the recovering them idea.

So I think I really need to come up with my own cushion material idea. Sometimes I think maybe wool, but that seems like too much work and I'd have to find wool. So I looked at the wood wool insulation and wonder about that, because I think it had to be fireproofed somehow to be on the market. Or rock wool? But would that be comfortable to sit on.

And this has been a thought for a few years, at least, already. So I've come to you all to see what you think, because I really don't think keeping the foam cushions on the rocket is a healthy thing to be doing.

What heat resistant material would be the most comfy, while not being too hard to fill a cushion cover?

Hi Tiffaney,

I looked into the builders guide, as I remembered this topic was covered there as well, but it seems you've pretty much covered their suggestions.

Not sure of what materials you made your bench out of but could you add more mass to the top of your bench? Something that would take longer to heat up in the short term but also prolong the heat storage capacity for the long term.
Or, instead of adding more mass, perhaps go the opposite route and incorporate some insulation like rock wool, perlite etc right into the mix?
Perhaps this would then make it too high to sit on unless you excavated down a bit before adding the mass/insulation?

if I were you I'd go to a place that sells used clothing and blankets and see if you can find old wool blankets. My old Salvation Army had them. Lots of people have those old sledding blankets in their basements (we used to keep one in our car a million years ago). They don't sell well because people don't like to buy used bedding, but I got a few old full wool blankets at Salvie's.
If you can't find wool blankets, get wool clothing, maybe even felt it down if you need to. either way, use wool to stuff cushions (use the melt test to check fiber). I'd make cushions out of canvas (I'm envisioning old duffel bags, but also useful would be old canvas tents, canvas dropcloths, etc. Yes I'm incapable of moving away from things I buy at the army-navy or salvation army stores. I'm okay with that. )

This is very important - the fire risk is genuine! There's a good chance that if the old cushions were commercial, they have fire retardants in them, and those chemicals aren't nice.

I like Gerry's ideas, but would like to add some thoughts of my own in a different direction.

Think "cookie cooling rack"? But human sized? Wood also becomes a fire risk if it goes through cycles of high heat, so I'm thinking metal upcycled from old furniture.
A)
- our old sofa bed had a spring system inside its frame that the mattress laid on.
- my sister's day-bed had something similar but different
Both of these had a fairly flat profile, so could be adding about an inch of height between the bench and the wool blankets.
My idea is that you would make a couple of frames up that were the right size, and you would use them when the bench was hot, but remove them when it was cooler.

B) These may be harder to find, but some of our antique furniture had cone shaped coiled springs. These need a layered system to cover them so that there wasn't anything pokey. I don't know how to get some of those layers new and still get natural, but I'm pretty sure they're out there, possibly in your own environment.
This page will give you the idea I'm suggesting: https://thedesignersmarketplace.com/blogs/blogs/what-is-8-way-hand-tied-furniture-and-its-benefits?

Modern foams don't last, are expensive, and turn to 'dust' when they age. I would absolutely look for alternatives. For the top padding, if you can find someone with a backyard flock, feathers might be an option? They would need to be sewn into pockets if you want them to stay put.

Good luck with hunting up options. Please report on your progress and the outcome and how well things work. If you have a way to take before and after temperatures easily, other people who visit this site could benefit from your experimentation.

Thanks everyone for the replies. Gerry, height is a problem and excavating isn't an option. So we can't add more mass, except for a thin, finish layer. But perhaps we could put something insulating in the finish and that would help it? If we put marble powder in the finish layer, do you think that might provide a little bit of insulation?

We have old bed springs, just because we like the look of rust and they're easy structures for vines to climb on. But using them would give too much height. I like the idea of a human sized cookie cooling rack, Jay, but I don't think I'd be capable of making them out of metal and my husband always has way too much to do already.

I love used, also, and the wool blankets separating the foam couch cushions from the rocket mass are old army blankets. If I was careful about folding them, Teresa, do you think I could actually use them as cushion cover filling?

I don't know exactly how hot your mass is getting-- i only now looked back and realized you said you used canvas to make your cushions initially. but if they're melting, then it must be some kind of blend.
I don't have a RMH, but if I did I would be going for various layers of wool insulation. You can stuff a cushion with anything (old timers used horsehair, my mother in law has a mattress made of cornhusks!!) as long as you're willing to be patient to eliminate clumps and lumps, so I don't see why you wouldn't be able to stuff a cushion with wool stuff (blankets, sweaters, etc). Plus I love to see those old army blankets still get used!!

I think what i would do is a metal mesh or screen bag full of gravel/perlite.  About 2 inches thick with relatively large gaps. Perhaps even river rock to ensure wide gaps and airflow.

Anything metal that gives you a 2 inch separation from the stove for airflow, is the usual way to separate a hot stove from combustibles. That doesnt mean you can even put a cushion on that though.

I agree with others that this is a serious fire hazard and i would hesitate to put anything flammable on it. You can get to "probably fine" but remember that to err is human....

...but to be one err away from dying in a fire is extremely unwise.

Personally i would just avoid sitting on it when hot in exchange for knowing that i dont have flammable materials on a hot stove. Any "cushion" i used for this purpose would need to be completely non flammable.

Tiffaney Dex wrote: If I was careful about folding them, Teresa, do you think I could actually use them as cushion cover filling?

I have certainly done this in the past. The cushions will be more firm and heavier.

What sort of sewing skills do you have? I have made cushions in the past. I could see making the bottom of the cushion out of wool blanket, and something pretty for the sides and top. I tend to use zippers to close the cover, as that allows you to do rearranging as needed. However, I have done a few with decorative buttons, or flaps.

Tereza, the current cushions are just old couch cushions from the 70's and 80's. They're not even from the same couch. I got a cotton tissue that we like for the top and sides of future cushions and canvas for the bottom. But maybe Jay is right in that I should use wool for the bottom?  Wool would be less flammable? Daniel, I've always thought of the health aspect of the foam couch cushions, but not about whether they're flammable. Yeah, I really don't want a fire risk. I always wanted a smooth, clean finish on the mass. But I don't want to be sitting on something uncomfortable. We don't have a couch, just the rocket, and it's where we go to to chill, watch a DVD or take a nap. Perhaps if we did a lime and powdered marble plaster for the finish, with getting it a couple of centimeters higher?

And Jay, I'm a terrible sewer, even if I try hard. I always joke on the fact that I'm really, really good at UN-sewing. It's the sewing it back together where I start having problems.

Tiffaney Dex wrote:Thanks everyone for the replies. Gerry, height is a problem and excavating isn't an option. So we can't add more mass, except for a thin, finish layer. But perhaps we could put something insulating in the finish and that would help it? If we put marble powder in the finish layer, do you think that might provide a little bit of insulation?  

Quite honestly, I had to look up what marble powder is:
"Marble powder is also known as limestone and calcium carbonate. In nature, marble powder is mainly found in old rocks and seashells."
Based on that description, I don't think a thin layer would do much for you.

Do you have a bypass installed?
If so, it could be opened up when the bench reaches your optimal butt warming temperature and closed when your ready to migrate off the bench.

Tiffaney Dex wrote:I got a cotton tissue that we like for the top and sides of future cushions and canvas for the bottom. But maybe Jay is right in that I should use wool for the bottom?  Wool would be less flammable?  

If the canvas is cotton and not a blend, then I would make covers with canvas.
But the more I think about this, the more concerned I am about heat. As mentioned above, you are literally playing with fire here. I've been thinking about whether fabric will MELT or not, but all things will combust if they get hot enough. if it's a cushion, speaking just for me, I'm more likely to take it off when I'm done than if it's cushions+blankets+other things. I don't know if wool would be more or less flammable than canvas, but I would remove anything from the mass if I'm not around to supervise, and that removability would have to be part of my planning.

Hi Tiffany;
As a general rule of thumb. The surface temperature of the bench on a J-Tube averages around 100F; perhaps, if you pushed hard for long enough, it could reach 150F.
At those temperatures, nothing is going to burst into flames.  Ignition happens at 456F.
Most of the early rocketeers simply put the cushion on while napping or just sitting, and then remove it when done.
Remember the mass is to warm your home, not a cushion.
That cushion is holding the heat in the mass rather than radiating it into your home, and ultimately allowing it to leave up the chimney.

My suggestion would be to rebuild your RMH and give it a 4'x5' bell, rather than a bench, and then place comfy chairs nearby.

I'm was very relieved to read your post,  Thomas. So our bench isn't getting anywhere near flammable temperatures. It's hot to the touch when the fire is going, but it doesn't burn us, like touching a hot casserole will burn us. It's just that we start feeling a burning sensation after a bit of time, more like the way sunburn happens.

Tereza, we're similar to you in what we'll pick up:  when we only had the couch cushions on the bench, we would pick them up when we weren't sitting on them. Once we started noticing the smell under us and put wool blankets between them and the mass, that stopped. So I'm hoping to make cushions that can safely sit on the mass, that will be picked up afterwards.

And I'm sorry to cause you trouble, Gerry.  Maybe the correct translation is marble dust, instead? It's used in tadelakt.

The ignition temperature of wood is 450ish F, but it is a known issue that wood continuously exposed to high heat for a long time (months/years) will slowly break down and eventually be able to char at lower temperatures, like 200 F or so. This is probably not an issue for a cushion, as the bench surface should not be getting near those temperatures.

Glenn Herbert wrote: This is probably not an issue for a cushion, as the bench surface should not be getting near those temperatures.

Is there any chance that the cushion is acting as insulation and increasing the temperature under it more than expected?

This is why I'd love to see and actual temperature measurement from under the cushion. If Tiffaney is finding it uncomfortably hot to sit on top of the cushion and if they saw signs of the foam "melting" before adding the wool blanket spacer, that still seems like the temp is too high for whatever reason.

and wrote:

it is a known issue that wood continuously exposed to high heat for a long time (months/years) will slowly break down and eventually be able to char at lower temperatures, like 200 F or so.

Does anyone know if repeated exposure to high heat affects wool the same way? I expect overheated wool isn't as toxic as overheated foam, but so many fabrics are treated with nasty chemicals these days, I worry that even if fire is no risk, could there be off-gassing that people wouldn't notice the smell of?

I guess melting isn't actually the correct word for what's happening to the foam and I'm sorry for the inconcise language. It was getting too hot and would start smelling before it was separated from the bench by wool. Nothing ever started oozing out of the cushion.

The weather is changing back to cooler temperatures here and we came close to lighting a fire last night. It's very probable that I'll make one tonight and I'll measure the temperature under the wool blanket to see if it is causing the bench to overheat.

Go "Grainger" online, search mineral insulation...
Their # 19NE76 is sheet 2' x  4'  x  
1-1/2"  R 4  sheets...must buy (7) package at about $ 25.00 each...
They have many listed..

I bought some 1" sheets, several years ago for work pads.... They were rated at  (1200 °f ) ...

I work on pizza ovens, can you imagine the heat on your upper arms , if you have to reach in across the open lay-down door ...
I took one sheet, cut in 4 pc,  ( each was 12" x 24"... )  I purchased some cheap cotton pillow cases,  that were 25" wide inside.. by about 30" long.... I placed a 12" pc of insulation inside, had a seamstress sew it up, placed the second piece of insulation in remaining pillow case, and sew it up.... The I had seamstress sew a similar pillow for me out of some hd canvas material I found at Wally world....
Final results, a 2 section heat shield, soft, flexible, about 24" square...
I place a 12" panel on open 500°f door, and I can work easily without burning myself...
NOW, I'M NOT SITTING ON THESE , SO I DO NOT KNOW HOW LONG THEY WILL LAST IN THAT APPLICATION, BUT... THIS MAY WORK FOR YOU..... I love my heat pads... Even though I had to buy a box of 10 pieces, I've used a lot of the insulation by now, best $200.oo spent on my work tools....

It's late at night here and we're about to go to bed, but I wanted to post that the température under the wool and cushions right now is 56 degrees Celsius, which is 132 Fahrenheit.  But it's cooler than it normally is because we hadn't lit a fire for at least the last week, whien we had unusually warm weather. So perhaps we are making the problem with keeping the bench covered. And I really have to come up with cushions that would be very movable.

Glenn Herbert wrote:The ignition temperature of wood is 450ish F, but it is a known issue that wood continuously exposed to high heat for a long time (months/years) will slowly break down and eventually be able to char at lower temperatures, like 200 F or so. This is probably not an issue for a cushion, as the bench surface should not be getting near those temperatures.

Do you know how high the temperatures are that cause wood to be combustible at lower temperatures? Because there are wood beams at the back of the bench and I've been pondering over this statement, or worrying. There are four beams going down that support two windows above the bench and one load bearing beam between the windows. Have we created a fire risk with the wool and foam cushions?

Joseph, we can't get grainger over here, unfortunately. But your post has made me optimistic about the comfortability of rock wool.

But I'm starting to think we need to not use cushions at all.

There is not a simple cutoff point for temperature; higher temperatures accelerate the breakdown process. Paper stored in an attic can experience the effect over decades.

Is there any gap between the bench and the wood posts? If they are in contact, there may be an issue. How close are the heat ducts to the back of the bench?

Tiffaney I'd suggest flipping the cushions up into backrest form if possible any time you aren't using it, or for as long as the heat is tolerable. The cushions will definitely insulate the mass and cause significantly higher temps than RMH users normally see with one of those temp readers, or at least I've only ever seen people taking temps from exposed surfaces of the mass. Placing a cushion on top that traps in the heat for a couple hours, and I'd expect to see the mass surface temp higher than normal. Keeping the mass surface exposed most of the time will help there, as would anything that would allow air flow between you and the mass.

Perhaps you could break up just the top several inches of mass above the pipes, and then add a thin layer of perlite-cob, say an inch of it, where it's at least 50% perlite, then add back the last couple inches of normal cob. This would reduce (but not eliminate) the heat flow into the top of the mass, and also encourage the lateral heat flow into more mass that doesn't have that perlite in it. The top surface would also heat up eventually, but it might take long enough that your evening sits wouldn't need the cushions at all, if the primary use is heat shielding.

As for the wood support in the wall next to the mass, allowing the wood to heat up over 140F over time will lower the char point of the wood. I recall seeing a strawbale house (online) that had a RMH built against a wall with no air gap, and I'm not sure if it was months or a couple years, but eventually the strawbales in the wall caught fire and burned a significant portion of the house. So you definitely want to ensure an air gap between your mass and anything combustible. Even better IMO would be to use stand-offs to position a piece of material that quickly radiates heat away (typically a metal sheet), and leave a gap between the metal sheet and the floor, with an inch between the wall and the metal, and at least another inch between this heat shield and the mass. The floor gap allows fresh, cooler air to draw in as warmed air rises up and away from the mass and wall.

If a mass rebuild is an option, you could position the ducting pipes lower in the mass, so you can have more material between the ducting and butts. This will allow more time for some of that heat to move laterally into more mass, which should lower the temp on the surface directly above the pipes if all other variables are the same. I'd call this a distant second option if you find adding the perlite layer mentioned above doesn't help enough.

Another option would be to make thinner pads, maybe you could fill them with cotton clothes that you no longer are wearing? Instead of turning old t-shirts into rags, you can roll them up the way some do when packing a suitcase, and have them packed into a less-gicky cover that doesn't off-gas when warmed up?

I've flame tested buckwheat hulls both at home and in a government approved lab (when flame testing our buckwheat hull mattresses). I could never get them to catch fire. In the lab one of our fabric pods burst open and the hulls shot out and extinguished the flame. The lab told me that was certainly a first!  Anyway I thought it maybe could help someone here.  See my flame test videos here

My RMH bench is my bed. The first year, I placed cotton bags full of buckwheat hulls tied together directly on the bricks of the bench. The next year I decided to experiment with hemp 'sand' and natural latex chunks instead. This time I went with a recommended frame, because the cotton bags had moved around too much on their own. Probably should have just built a frame for the bags, but figured I'd have a second bench soon and would use the opportunity to experiment with a new frame then.

The frame is just pallet wood slats with an inch gap between them. The slats run under the side support boards so each gap becomes a channel to radiate warmed air off to the side. An inch seems good spacing to allow flow while keeping the bedding from sinking in and blocking it up.

The cotton bags and buckwheat hulls are 100% organic, as are the hemp sand (hulls) and latex chunks, and all were purchased from Open Your Eyes Bedding (Lynne is a fellow Permie here). The hemp and latex were put in a 3" topper case from Amazon. Lynne said they normally recommend a 2" topper full of the hemp on the bottom and a 1" topper with the latex on top, but that they might mix fine in a single sleeve and had been meaning to experiment with it, so I decided to save the cost and go with a single. I have found that with the mix the latex floats on top and migrates away as I toss an turn in bed.

I'll experiment with fill levels also when I have time- there is an art to bedding like this. Despite the temptation to 'tweak' the arrangement and a bit of fussiness over how the materials sit, they are insanely comfortable. What had become chronic back pain for me like five years ago has all but disappeared since adopting these materials. It might be from general permies lifestyle changes, but when I sleep in a guestroom somewhere else the pain tends to return. I've heard mention of "grounding" in conjunction with these materials.

I should also mention that this bench is in a Yurt I use all winter. The hulls and latex have done an excellent job of tolerating the heat and passing it through to the top. Some nights when it has gotten to -30F outside and slightly below freezing for the inside air temp, the bench has remained very warm to the touch all night, and very comfortable on top with a sheet, wool blanket, and conventional quilt- the feather bed topper was too warm to ever use this year, except on returning from trips when the bench was not fully heated before bed time. Also also worth mentioning these materials have very rarely been found to trigger allergies and the rodents that have been exploring the yurt and avoiding traps have not shown interest in any of the materials, not even with the bags of excess material stored in the sheds where the little buggers hang out more. If you explore the OYEB website Lynne describes how she evaluated her materials in great detail, including experiments with flammability (hint: amazingly fire resistant, even with government certification tests).

Back to Tiffany's bench- if you are able to order from OYEB or find something similar, construction is modular. The materials can be used to make any size or thickness desired, particularly if you sew your own. I don't know how much hotter your bench might get than mine, but wood with air channels that will be kept open should not cause a problem. For extra peace of mind, the 'cookie rack' effect could be obtained from an old futon frame. In the university town I had been in, at the beginning and end of every school year the curbs were littered with old metal frames like this that no one wanted. I'm not sure the spacing between the metal slats would be sufficient to fully support this type of mattress material alone, but with pallet wood like I have laid across the metal frame I think that would assure flow and spacing to protect the wood from being stressed by any heat the bench could put out...

You have two practical options if you stick to natural fibres: wool and linen.  However I have a separate suggestion which is to add thermal mass to the top of the bench. Depending on the exact design, strip the top, add wet mortar and drop on two or three inch slabs of soapstone. In essence the original design was a bit lacking. The variation in temperature can be predicted based on head demand. It needs more mass for that quantity of the available energy. There are multiple options for you. One is to throttle the air to the combustor extending the burn time (which will increase efficiency). Widen the bench and add parallel channels. Change the building material to one with a higher density (bricks). Add a phase change material on or under the bench top - this has great potential and is being actively researched.

Mineral (rock) wool is not person-friendly, it shouldn't be needed in a situation like this. Regular wool is, as far as I'm aware, the most flame-resistant textile available, needing temperatures over 600*F to melt (it does not ignite).

Wool was standard issue for all fire department gear up until the 1970s, when 3M worked with regulatory agencies to add an arbitrary stipulation to the Fire Department codes. Since then, all gear must undergo three washings in hot water before initial use, even though there was no problem that this process addressed (wool does not retain stains readily and washes fine in cold water) and no correlation with environmental conditions gear would otherwise experience. But the process damages wool, so Nomex then became the new standard material for fire resistance (and just happens to be patented by 3M).

Over time, firefighters who have lost fellows prematurely to cancer have referenced studies showing carcinogenic outcomes associated with Nomex and attempted to change regulations so that natural wool could once again be utilized, but one might imagine how their relative influence over regulatory agencies has progressed...

A big issue with natural wool might be regional availability. Around me in the US midwest, I know a couple people who raise sheep, mostly for meat. When they shear them they are only interested in the main pelt- they are willing to give the selvage (is "cut-offs" a better term here?) away for free, sometimes having so much they need to advertise to give it away. Of course with free stuff you are likely to want to wash it before use if you will be sleeping or sitting on it. OYEB offers processed wool selvage for order if no opportunity for free stuff exists around you...

In general, I'd suggest favouring the materials mentioned in my previous post as wool seems more insulative and the other materials will do more to help radiate heat away from the bench, to the room or the bench occupants...

One big caveat with wool and heat/flames: look out for fashion "wool"! Almost all garments these days that claim to be "wool", even those that say something like '100% merino wool', are blends with synthetic materials that melt and burn at very low temperatures, with very little resistance. Thankfully the surrounding wool tends to keep these flash points from spreading, but it is easy to ruin the garment and I would not want that spot touching my skin when it happens. '100% merino wool' often means that the 70% of the garment that is actually wool is only from merino sheep, kind of like the "Sex Panther" magnetic powers demonstrated by Will Ferrell...

I find some interesting and quite inventive ideas here, but wanted to drop in a low-tech concept and a slightly higher-tech one.
If you have cushions, and find access to a used mattress (anything that reduces mattress waste is a plus for the environment), it should be possible to cut the heavy metal wire from the perimeter of the mattress.  This can be added to the bottom of the cushions to make a metal wire frame with cushions between front and rear lateral wires.  Cushions can be snapped or velcro tabbed or even sewn onto the wire, your choice.  On each end, place a small vertical stand (perhaps a square wooden end panel for the seating area.  Screw small eye screws into the stand horizontal pieces front and rear.  Get four door springs and hang them from the eye screws and then slip over the ends of the bed wire.  Ensure the springs are a few inches (2" to 4") shorter than the distance to the RMH "seat bench".  In this way, the default, unloaded position of the cushions will be a couple of inches above the warm bench.  This allows ready air circulation and easier heating of the room while keeping any cushions above the fray.  Sit down, cushion softens bench for tush, get up and it automatically lifts off the surface of the bench.
Next hare-brained thought.  Make pex pipe frames under the cushions.  Connect with tees to vertical pex pipes along the rear of the bench.  Fill with fluid, could be oil, could be water, could be water and water-safe antifreeze.  Heat from the bench will enter horizontal pex and warm fluid.  Warmed fluid will become lighter and rise up vertical rear pipes where it will cool and flow back down pex returns as a thermosiphon system.  This is a permanent mount, transferring heat to the rear of the seat (making a nice, warm back heater) that can be made large enough to handle most heat from the bench.  If one wants to get real steampunk, add valves (suggest on reverse side from sitting) and different horizontal pex pipes to allow moving heating area up and down the back.

As I read this, I noted that my mind was making jumps not everyone may follow.  It would be useful to place a coarse screen material under either idea's cushions on top of major supports to allow cushion to remain stable when suspended or along the back if that option is used.  I really would consider use of wool fabric for covers and cleaned and otherwise unprocessed wool for stuffing.  Why wool?  ITS WOOL!  Great heat retention, fabulous hot and cold material, gives off heat if it gets wet.

Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:...However I have a separate suggestion which is to add thermal mass to the top of the bench. Depending on the exact design, strip the top, add wet mortar and drop on two or three inch slabs of soapstone...

Soapstone is an excellent idea, even only one inch affords quite a bit of heat transfer slowing.  I have a soapstone woodstove, and I believe it can make a difference of a couple hundred degrees vs. the cast iron parts of the stove.  Unfortunately it's too late in the spring now to measure it precisely since I've stopped using the stove.  The downside is that even soapstone "remnants" can be very expensive.  

We've pulled the wool away from the wall and wood posts, so there is air circulation now, and the wood posts are staying at room temperature; the thermometer doesn't move when stuck onto them just a bit above the rocket mass.
On Saturday morning, when the trash transitory deposit ( ? I have no idea how to translate that ) is open, we'll be dropping off the old couch cushions. For a temporary solution, we'll use chair cushions to sit on in the evening. And I'll slowly make cushions with the cotton that I got specifically for that, with wool on the bottom side, and buckwheat hulls for the filling. I can recuperate the hulls easily enough here, as the traditional grain is buckwheat. I'll make them smaller than the couch cushions, with the hope that that will make us pick them up. I am a horrible sewer, which means the chair cushions will be used for quite a while starting Saturday evening.

Thank you to everyone who replied and thank you, Jay, for putting this in the daily-ish. I'm realy grateful that you all made me realise what a hasard I was creating in covering up the top of the bench.

Tiffaney Dex wrote:On Saturday morning, when the trash transitory deposit ( ? I have no idea how to translate that)

I think in the USonian dialect that would be "the dump"?

Tiffaney Dex wrote:I can recuperate the hulls easily enough here, as the traditional grain is buckwheat.

According to the OYEB site, the hulls should be non-roasted and "fully dusted", whatever that involves.

Do your chair cushions have some sort of natural fill in them? My rule of thumb is to not expose any petroleum based substances to temperatures significantly higher than a warm room unless they are known to be designed and tested for heat exposure. My concern is less about flammability or degradation over time, but possible off-gassing as they deteriorate. From what I've put together, factories where plastics are formed at higher temps are where the bulk of cancer cases originate...

Coydon Wallham wrote:

Tiffaney Dex wrote:On Saturday morning, when the trash transitory deposit ( ? I have no idea how to translate that)

I think in the USonian dialect that would be "the dump"?

Probably a "transfer station."  A local place with dumpsters (or large pits for more heavily populated areas) that individuals bring their trash to, that are periodically hauled off to the landfill.  It may also have separate dumpsters for recycling.  (I used to work at one in Oregon.)

I'll add my bit about off-gassing.
I haven't built my mass heater yet, but I've done some research for safety at the workshop.

Any product exposed to heat that produces a smell is off gassing, to keep it simple. So you want to make sure that what you put on top of the bench is completely unharmful for your health. As others have said, stick to natural fibers, not treated with chemicals, because you'll spend long hours on top of this heated cushions.

Around here, you can get untreated wool directly from the shepherds. It's treated like a waste because it has no market value, so you can get it for free, but comes with the work of cleaning it yourself.
Another option you may have available is old wool mattresses.
We're relatively close, so maybe those are options for you too!

So the chair cushions get to stay on our chairs because they are filled with we what looks like waste fabric. And I doubt it's all natural. Thanks for the warnings that they will also off-gas if they don't have all natural fillings.

So if we don't want to sit on the mass, until I make the cushions, I'll fold up wool blankets; we can easily put them on the bench when we want to sit on it and then  pick them up whenever we get up..

Transfer station is the term I couldn't figure out. Thanks,  Donna!

Donna Lynn wrote:Probably a "transfer station."  A local place with dumpsters (or large pits for more heavily populated areas) that individuals bring their trash to, that are periodically hauled off to the landfill.  It may also have separate dumpsters for recycling.  (I used to work at one in Oregon.)

Not to hijack Tiffaney's thread, but regional dialects/phrasing is related to what I wasted four years of higher education on and it still fascinates me anyway.

I've not heard of "transfer station" anywhere around Wisconsin or Minnesota outside of busses and trains. I wonder how widespread "the dump" is since I've never noticed anyone confused in four decades of asking "Where does the Lone Ranger take his trash?" and telling them (or having them tell me) "to the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump"...

Coydon Wallham wrote:

Donna Lynn wrote:Probably a "transfer station."  A local place with dumpsters (or large pits for more heavily populated areas) that individuals bring their trash to, that are periodically hauled off to the landfill.  It may also have separate dumpsters for recycling.  (I used to work at one in Oregon.)

Not to hijack Tiffaney's thread, but regional dialects/phrasing is related to what I wasted four years of higher education on and it still fascinates me anyway.

I've not heard of "transfer station" anywhere around Wisconsin or Minnesota outside of busses and trains. I wonder how widespread "the dump" is since I've never noticed anyone confused in four decades of asking "Where does the Lone Ranger take his trash?" and telling them (or having them tell me) "to the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump"...

A quick online search showed that there are indeed waste transfer stations in Wisconsin and Minnesota, as well as Michigan where I currently live.  Most folks never actually see where their garbage goes because a truck picks it up from a container or three at the end of their driveway and it magically disappears to a mysterious place known as "the dump."  Even many rural areas have this service available for a fee if not covered by local taxes.  But people who have to take their own trash "away" will take it either to a permanent site such as a landfill or a commercial incinerator, or to a transfer station that collects trash from local residents and transports it to permanent sites farther away.  The Oregon county I lived in walked the fine line between having enough transfer stations close enough that people would drive to them instead of dumping their trash along the side of the road somewhere to avoid the cost of proper disposal, and keeping municipal costs of trash collection within budget constraints.

The way I see it (without the benefit of higher education 😁,) "the dump" is a generic slang term which can encompass any place trash is emptied, while "transfer station" and "landfill" are more precise, proper terms.  I recognized what Tiffaney was specifically referring to because I worked for the county's waste management division for a time and learned the details that most folks never even think to think about.  ("When you throw something away, where is 'away'?")  Seeing a working landfill up close was somewhat akin to seeing a commercial poultry house for me... it reeks of cruelty to and mistreatment of the natural world (although the seagulls on the Oregon coast might disagree with me -- they swarmed the trash pit at one transfer station daily as if it were a free all-you-can-eat buffet...)  Thus I have my own chickens who live pleasant, healthy, mostly-natural lives while giving me eggs, and I minimize "trash" leaving my property as much as I am able.