Joel Salatin - Christian, Libertarian, Environmentalist, Capitalist Farmer

In my view the Goals of a self sufficient homestead should be about
achieving "off the grid" food independence with the most important emphasis
being optimum health as a by product rather than the profit earned.

That being said, it's fine to have a certain portion of the land dedicated to paying the property
taxes and other expenses generated by the farming endeavor but all the cash in the world
will be meaningless if your health gets compromised in the process as it "is" the true wealth.

christhamrin wrote:
glad we agree mostly.  my little disagreement hinges on the word 'capitalist'.  i don't care for it & it means different things (salatin clearly is using capitalism-1).  see the following three definitions:

i am an anti-capitalist-2&-3.

Well I'm pretty sure we're all with you on the 2&3, but it is ever crucial to differentiate and showcase the freedom aspect. I have seen it all too common where freedom, capitalism and corpratism are all bunched together w/ Bush and Obama to make the boogey man. This is a huge can of worms dare I say, as always it boils down to knowledge and the fact that the average person cares more about ashton kutcher than their freedom to care about it or their freedom to not eat toxic waste. Infiltrate the video games and you've won the battle.

Capitalism is generally defined as the economic system where the means of production are privately owned, operated for profit from investment, and in competitive markets.

Since Governments and societies struggle with corruption(and lunacy) in such a way to to create law that reduces the ability of the markets to be competitive, as well as removing the ability of ownership of one's property, or the rights thereof, I would claim that we do not have a truly capitalist system, but a semi fascist, semi capitalism, and semi socialist society all rolled into one. Add to that the corrupt (IMHO) mechanism that debt/money is created and I suggest we not assume the "Capitalism" is what it looks like in America.

I agree with Salatin that the best thing government could do for the American Farmer is to remove the regulations that prevent you and me from smoking hams, or selling eggs or selling cheese without the government inspecting it all.
The US govt should get out of the food subsidy business all together. But the problem isn't private property, it is someone using the Government to obtain an unfair advantage in the marketplace. I had dinner tonight with someone from India, Philippines, and Germany. We discussed a lot of things. One of them was about how corrupt their governments were. Even my German friend complained about how the Germans were corrupt, but couldn't even see it as such.
Since I've never seen (or heard of) an honest government, perhaps what we need is much less government.

Just a thought.

Thomas Jefferson once said something to the effect of:

The system of government that governs the best is the system that governs the least.

John Polk wrote:
If you cannot return a small profit on your farm, then it is just a matter of time before the bank takes it back, or somebody else takes it over.

Very well said.  Due to alot of government jimmy jacking, there are alot of farmers who did well for generations, then something happens where they cannot pay the bills and exactly as you said, then the bank comes in...or IRS (so many different ways to lose a property), and yes, someone else then gets to move in.  *insert sadness here*

I am putting together a book/dvd/magazine page for Paul, and to save him some time from making a (short paragraph) written review of everything, I figured I'd ask permie folks to write "what Paul would say" in each thread something is talked about.

So what would Paul say about each of Salatin's books? (Salad bar beef, you can farm, pastured poultry profits, holy cows and hog heaven, the sheer ecstasy...,everything i want to do is illegal)

I have never heard this man before, thanks for the post. I too am a Christian that believes we need to be good stewards. Christians have been given a bad rap over the years due to the talking heads on TV. Now at days everyone calls themselves a Christian, but that don’t make them one. His views on big government are right on! As we see government is not the answer for farmers and people who want to live of their lad. I know more land owners loosing land and their ability to sell there crop because of government. Last but not least there is nothing wrong with capitalism! Our county was founded on the believe that we reap what we sow. I for one believe if you work hard in the county make a profit you should be able to keep most of it. If more people get of their high horses and work they would not be so depended on the money from big business to sustain them with food stamps free health care ext. Yes that even mean working for minimum wages. Little less government might just get all the free loader off their butts and put them to work. For all you people that say, she is a Christian she should want to provide every need for all Americans. If any of you read your bibles, (that is not biblical)!! I am to give freely to them the good lord tell me too. I do to them that need a helping hand. Sorry that was me on a soap box. I am sure I have offended a lot of you.

O.K., so now I am only at minute 45 of this video and I have had to take a SECOND break from watching it because it is SOOO good. Only one problem - he's preaching to the chior. It's getting the rest of the world to not only listen, but take action, that is the problem.

paul wheaton wrote:

Great lecture. He took a big risk giving it at Google which in other ways is just as bad as Monsanto (ie privacy issues). I wonder if he was aware that Google and Best Buy were two corporate sponsors of the Census.

Raven Sutherland wrote:In my view the Goals of a self sufficient homestead should be about
achieving "off the grid" food independence with the most important emphasis
being optimum health as a by product rather than the profit earned.

That being said, it's fine to have a certain portion of the land dedicated to paying the property
taxes and other expenses generated by the farming endeavor but all the cash in the world
will be meaningless if your health gets compromised in the process as it "is" the true wealth.

We'll need to get RID of Codex Alimentarius then because their goal (total control of the food supply and the world's access to natural medicine and good health) is just the opposite. They are the global club for BIG AGRA BIG PHARMA, BIG FOOD and BIG MEDICA.

We'd need to start offering Naturopathic Medicine on a level playing field with Western Allopathic Conventional Medicine and begin to understand that Naturopaths are better at prevention and restoring health from chronic and degenerative diseases as they are trained in medical school to find and eliminate underlying CAUSES of disease. Conventional doctors only study how to treat symptoms with drugs and surgery. However, western medicine is great for ACUTE EMERGENCY situations. After the patient is stabilized the Naturopath can take over and show the patient how to regain their health.


I think we should get rid of property taxes too. Maybe pay a sales tax paid at time of purchase but once you buy your property and pay cash or pay the mortgage off.... it should be yours. In a FREE country it would be.

I have been told there was once a time when health on this land was superior, unlike anything we know now.

Good video. Thanks Paul. Just posting while the rest of the video loads.

As to taxes, that's a tricky issue. To have a government able to protect the environment and to act on the international stage to protect the values and well-being of the people, governments need money. I think that the one-time property tax at time of purchase would prove so high as to be prohibitive.

I think the solution will prove to be a combination of measures, but taxing activities that need discouragement, as opposed to taxing productivity (like we do when we tax income) should play a large roll. There is where I think taxing energy use, a "carbon tax" if you will, makes sense. The more that is wasted, the more energy used, and the more taxes are paid. Conversely, those of us who already limit our footprint would see instant benefit from doing what we feel is right.

"Human self-actualization and self-affirmation is actually encouraged and stimulated when we viscerally participate in the physical elements of life."

great quote.

Double fist pump in the air, stand up an cheer kind of speech.

Way to deliver the right message Joel!


"Carbon Sequestering Cathedral"

"Herbivores are the ecological biomass reset button"

"Anything that is worth doing, is worth doing poorly first."

"We have exchanged 18% food cost and 9% health care cost for 9% food cost and 18% healthcare costs."


I love the simplicity of the topic. Very inspiring!

Wilson

Joel S. is great! I agree with 100% of his enthusiasm, and 99% of his message ;) Re: his anti-"Wall Street capitalistic" ethic and his mention of Joel Barker, I looked Barker up and found this great explanation of another way to do an economy - i.e. the Mondragon model. Open the first doc on this list and check it out.

http://www.joelbarker.com/

What is it... capitalism? socialism? er, communism! ? something new... "cooperativism" ? maybe real "Christian-ism" (see Acts 4:32 et al ;) ! ? or permaculture fair share? Food for thought, anyway.

I love sociology. I find it encouraging that the right wing and religous fundamentalists are returning to organic practices { as stewards } instead of " lets use it now before the apocolypse ". Many are seeking alternative healing and herbs , the makers diet . Being the older hippie son of a pentacostal preacher ,this mix of socio-economic views just looks the same as genetic diversity to me.Who knows which views will prevail and evolve , or fail and disappear.I need to pay for my farm , I did not inherit it , full modern prices. The more green my property can produce , the more time I can put into production on it . When we talk about increasing biomass in a system , are we not talking about the plants making profit ? So should we , in many ways.

Paul and Lacia review a Joel Salatin google video in this podcast: podcast 134

part 2 of the Salatin podcast.

Just sent a link to the video to democracynow. Maybe Amy Goodman will have him on and let him promote his book.

She fairly routinely has people on her show with interesting ideas to talk about.

On the discussion in the podcast about gluten, I have a little to add here. Did you know that some research has shown that sourdough bread has less gluten, even when using conventional grains? Here is a link to the general blog post on the topic: http://www.wholegrainscouncil.org/newsroom/blog/2012/01/research-sheds-light-on-gluten-issues

I know this blog is the whole grain council... But here is a link to the research study the blog referenced: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1932817/

Basically, conventional breadmaking has around 75000 part per million of gluten. You must be 20 ppm or less for gluten-free label. This study was able to produce bread with 12 ppm using a special sourdough starter. That makes it gluten-free!

Happy baking!

Lunch time with Joel ... it's a hot day and he decides to stretch out on the deck.

Me and Joel

A photo of two people with solutions to so many problems, the old "fly on the wall" saying definitely applies.

Emily at Crosscuts and Cast Iron posted another photo of Joel and Paul:

is Salatin a hobit? I know Paul is tall but they look like they come from diferent planets

"Paul, put that down! I can't reach it when you hold it way up there."

Making a profit is good.

Feeding the world dont seem to bad, either.

I respect and admire the guy, snd no doubt he has been succesful. I do not agree with him 100%, but i dont agree with anyone 100%.

mick mclaughlin wrote:I do not agree with him 100%, but i dont agree with anyone 100%.

I disagree with you.

I can agree with that.

Hell, i disagree with myself sometimes