• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • r ranson
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Burra Maluca
  • Mike Haasl
master gardeners:
  • John F Dean
  • jordan barton
  • Greg Martin
  • Carla Burke
gardeners:
  • Jay Angler
  • Leigh Tate
  • Steve Thorn

the first wofati greenhouse design

 
pollinator
Posts: 302
Location: Wheaton Labs
690
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I learned some interesting technique from Bob in this video. Maybe I can locate a source for glazing track like they are using here.

 
gardener
Posts: 869
196
2
forest garden wofati composting toilet solar rocket stoves
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Since the surface is sloped, having something that could withstand a hail storm seems prudent. What about a polycarbonate panel like this? You could butt them up to each other so the open end cells overlap, a little silicone to bind and seal them, and they should be light enough to only need support at the top and bottom and the ends so no shading. Otherwise if glass is the only option, perhaps some shower doors would work? A T channel between them like this could support the glass, and a gasket on each side of the glass could thicken it up to seal it. A channel for both inside and outside that overlap/touch, then the glass and gasket would fit into the gaps if that makes sense? Shower door glass shouldn't have any UV coating.

Edit: the first link also has this channel for connecting them together for a 1 stop shop option.
 
Josiah Kobernik
pollinator
Posts: 302
Location: Wheaton Labs
690
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Paul is very keen on glass. It's more in line with his values.  

I was originally interested in polycarbonate. The main downside is the loss of light transmission over time. Polycarbonate would be significantly cheaper, have a higher R value, and be much easier and faster to install. It would even have light transmission comparable to glass for the first two years. After that it drops off fairly quickly as the material degrades.

Glass it is, and double or triple paned it must be.
 
Josiah Kobernik
pollinator
Posts: 302
Location: Wheaton Labs
690
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There are a couple suppliers of this extruded aluminum glazing system known as PRO-SEAL. I'm currently studying this design guide that they provide
 
Mark Brunnr
gardener
Posts: 869
196
2
forest garden wofati composting toilet solar rocket stoves
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Have you already checked sites like Freecycle and the Missoula Habitat for Humanity ReStore? Always a chance they might get some windows or shower doors, perhaps they would take your number in case something came in?
 
Josiah Kobernik
pollinator
Posts: 302
Location: Wheaton Labs
690
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Have you already checked sites like Freecycle and the Missoula Habitat for Humanity ReStore?



We want to avoid any coatings on the glass. It is difficult for us to determine if salvaged glass is coated or not. For the sake of removing variables in the experiment, we will be using new glass.
 
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Josiah posted some more great update pictures in his bootcamp thread. Here's some hightlights!

deckboards over the coldsink inside the greenhouse. Spaced for maximum circulation.


laying


 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
 
steward
Posts: 34746
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
a video update

 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Lots of cool wofati greenhouse pictures recently!

Jennifer took some nice pictures of deck framing over the cold sink (Check out her thread for more pictures!)

framing over the cold sink in the greenhouse


And also some nice sketches of the greywater system in the greenhouse (more in her thread)

sketch of greywater system in earth-sheltered greenhouse


And Kyle's got some great pictures of the greenhouse, too, like:

Josiah walking on the new walkway
prepping for cob



He's also been working on door framing, trying to mesh roundwood door framing with a dimensional door. He'd love some input on the door making over in his thread:

roundwood doorframe for a dimensional door
sketch of the door sketch of wofati greenhouse door
 
Posts: 3
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Greetings permies.com:
I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada; which is about the same latitude as Montana; and will likely not move far as the Grandkids are here.
I have supported 2 of Paul Wheaton's Kick Starters; The Truly Passive Greenhouse  and SKIP.
I have also been reading some of the 'dailyish' posts and links that I receive.
I am not the most computer savvy person around so I likely have missed a fair amount of information and usually have not been available for the ZOOM sessions.
I enjoy the 'movies' on the greenhouse and hope there will be some summarizing information.
Examples could include but not be limited to cross sectional drawings of the structure with dimensions and materials, efforts and resources expended versus benefit and so on.
The current question I have is about the 'COB' on the 'back' wall; Does it continue up over the roof at all? How is the roof insulated?

I originally sent the above text to a different thread and Paul suggested I ask my questions here.

To Summarize: Are there current cross sectional drawings of the Wofati Structure with dimensions and materials? That would possibly include the answer to my question about 'COB'.
My 'effort and resource expended versus benefit' question will be better answered over time.

Sincerely
Jerry Beattie
 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Lots of cool stuff happening at the wofati greenhouse! The window frame is installed, and natural insulation is being applied. I love that they're using cob, straw and wool for insulation! I found a bunch of great pictures in the various Boot's threads. There's even more in their threads, so make sure to check them out!

Josiah’s Bootcamp Log

framing the window


Wall treatment test patch


Raw wool drying and airing out before it gets installed


Wool, scrap wood lattice, cob.


the window glass has arrived!



Dez's Bootcamp Experience (BRK)


A visit to the greenhouse
more framing for the window!


These stairs are so cool
the awesome stone stairs



Jen's Bootcamp Experience

wool and straw insulation
the wool and straw are put behind the lattice work for insulation


cobbing over the insulation
and then they are cobbed over!
 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Kyle's also been doing a lot of work on the greenhouse door and latch. There's lot of pictures on jos Bootcamp thread--here's just some of them!

shaving black locust down for use in the latch


most of the latch pieces


the door jam is coming along


I really like this one, as it looks kind of like a before/after picture, with one just the wool insulation, and the other the cobbing over.

half is cobbed, half shows the wool insulation
 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Kyle's gotten more work done on the door!

the core of the door


the latch bolt slides easily



Jennifer shared pictures of the cobbing of the walls, too. They've begun putting on the nicer, second coat of cob!

second layer of cob is so much smoother!
 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
More greenhouse updates! Jen Tuuli got this nice picture of the greenhouse. I love seeing how far along it's come!

cob walls inside earth-sheltered greenhouse
look at all the nice cob!


Kyle is doing some really cool work on making a wooden door latch. His woodworking is way over my head, but it looks so cool! Be sure to check out his thread for more pictures.

wooden door latch

Josiah posted about how Matt figured out how to fold aluminum sheet to make a corner flashing cap

how to make the corner flashing capt
 
corner flashing cap
where it goes!
 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Lot's of cool updates today! Josiah made an awesome video show-casing all the new work they've done (the latch, the cobbing, the bathtubs and windows and more!)!




[ur=https://permies.com/t/120/157417/permaculture-projects/Kyle-Permie-Bootcamp-BRK#1264908l]Kyle[/url]'s posted lots of pictures of the door latch!

here's one of the pictures of the door--check out his thread for more!


And look at the glorious cob work picture that Jennifer posted!

cob natural finish wall in greenhouse
 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ooooh, the siding is going up! Check out this picture from Josiah's Bootcamp thread:

wooden siding on greenhouse
 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Kyle has done amazing work on the door! Here's one of the pictures from his Bootcamp thread

wooden door with wooden latch mechanism

And Josiah posted this great picture of Kyle and his door

kyle and his handmade wooden door

 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I just love these series of pictures that Kyle posted, that I can't resist putting them side-by-side (visit his thread to see them larger!)

wool insulation in hand-made natural door
wool insulation
paper to stop drafts
hand-built eco-friendly door
ready for the handle!
 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 17400
Location: Pacific Northwest
8015
4
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Kyle's been hard at work on the door, and posted a ton of detailed pictures on his thread. Here's just one picture:

door handle about to get shaped!


Jen got some great pictures of the door, too, and she posted them for her 100th BRK post! WOOT WOOT!



the outside of the door, with Kyle!



She also snapped a picture of the outside of the greenhouse!

exterior of greenhouse
 
Oh, sure, you could do that. Or you could eat some pie. While reading this tiny ad:
Rocket Mass Heater Manual - now free for a while
https://permies.com/goodies/8/rmhman
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic