or just make your own gold

http://drjoechampion.com/


very slow and pic heavy
http://www.drjoechampion.com/303_group.htm

Have you sent them any money? Did they ask for any?

I am beyond skeptical. If this were true large industry would be buying all the technology up. They would not be offering it on the net like this.

IF it is true I say wait till the price of gold drops to a reasonable rate again from them glutting the market and it won't hurt my so much to buy it. Ya for them. I had to buy a 6' Piece of 24K 18 gauge wire and a 1"x2" 30 gauge sheet a couple weeks ago for my current project. $550 for those two little pieces. I remember when I could have gotten those two pieces all day long for $125.

Gold has no real value to me other than a material that I work with. This current market is putting the hurt on.

Make your own: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkZFuKHXa7w

I don't know if he's running a scam, is totally ignorant about chemistry or is mentally impaired but this is certainly hokey-pokey. If I were making that kind of cash I'd have a better coat and wouldn't be using paper plates for sample trays. Plus, my living would have nicer furniture. AND I'd pay somebody to spell check the website so I didn't look like a crackpot.

Other than that. I wish him luck.

oh my goodness, I really laughed hard at this one. I have to admit, Morgan, your posts are always entertaining.

I'm going to go out and start turning the rocks into gold around here, guys, so if you don't see me on permies.com anymore, just realize I'm a billionaire, now!

A better approach for making money with gold is to start a gold buying business, where you buy gold from people in your neighborhood at below market price, watch and wait for a market increase, then sell to good dealers. Personally, I prefer gold and silver coins to jewelry, but whatever works for ya!

Hey! I just thought of something. By using the same techniques we can turn 100 chickens into 4 cows. OR 30 Sheep into an elephant. You can only make a lot of little things into one bigger thing though. So you can't turn 1 cow back into 25 chickens... you just end up with a bunch of steak tips. so BEEEEE CAREFUL! This Technology is dangerous. HA!

I just turned 4 goats into an elephant, and I really regret it...

Does anyone know how to milk an elephant?

Abe Connally wrote:I just turned 4 goats into an elephant, and I really regret it...

Does anyone know how to milk an elephant?

Depends. Did you use male or female goats?

both, and I think I got a male elephant, or that's the biggest udder I've ever seen...


I didn't know elephants had 2 trunks...

I moved this to meaningless drivel.

I suppose it is possible that it is true. But I think the odds are hovering around zero. If it is true, and one of you cranks out a few tons, please send me a brick.

I have successfully made my own "BLACK GOLD" from kitchen scraps and yard trimmings. And that's about as successful as any of us are likely to be as alchemists.

paul wheaton wrote:I moved this to meaningless drivel.

appropriate move, though I am surprised it didn't get deleted.

by the way, this really does work. Just send me $1000, and I'll give you the secret to making mountains of gold...

Actually , it is prob true. he is selling licenses, was at 2k , don't know what they are at now.

After looking at the Brillouin energy source, this is a natural progression on the same theory.
You should be able to make any element change itself up, or down the table of elements by forcing nuetron progression with pure water, and maybe washing soda, or other salt.

https://permies.com/t/14256/alternative-energy/Rossi-Cat-real-just-not

try the second link to the PESN site. these folks are terminally overoptimistic, but at least 3 of these look genuine.
Brillouin, Bouyancy, and Rossi/Defkalion. Rossi is using the same process as Brillouin, but is using nickle powder, and is never going to get enough surface area to make it work well.
It also turns out that using Nickle/Moly as the catalyst works even better, the same as using platinum or pallidium, at a fraction of the cost.
Guy on the edge is using Nobel Gases in the same reaction as Brillouin, but didn't understand that it is the same reaction type. He just got funding too anyway.


3/4 of the way down one the 2010 post, one other guy points out that he got some chemists freaked by showing them the trick with the original technique, the biological one.
They were using YEAST to change silver to gold!
You can try this at home, i doubt it takes any additives other than sugar and de-ionized water.
Get a piece of .999 silver, put it in a jar with yeast, and see if the metal that starts floating on the scum surface, attaches itself to the coin or jewelry. 72 hours recommended.
The yeast must be making more than co2, or else the methyl alcohols are being used as hydrogen donors for nuetron synthesization ?
Is there a specialty yeast that creates more hydrogen?

I think the process is misunderstood by the guy, and that is why he is calling in "magnetic anomolys" as reasons it sometimes doesn't work for some of the folks.
But it is also possible that it is actually changing the frequencies of the pulse sweep they are using to move the nuetron creation forward in the copper process. Who knows?
He has supposedly got it to work for everyone eventually.

No, i havn't bought in.


You should be able to do this at home too, if you can figure out the mhz needed, and the signal strength.
Think an out of the garage way to try is the Battery Minder Plus. This generates a mhz sweep to re-vitalize your lead acid batteries, and has worked with all my old car batteries that didn't have the plates shorted.
Somewhere in that sweep, is prob the frequency needed, but will just take a lot longer, cuz you are not spending all your time there. May still work tho. Got a piece of pure copper around?

I have also used the Washing soda/battery charger/rebar setup for removing rust and re-plating steel. That system works great, and you have the neg end of a batt charger attached to a piece of metal in the water! works UNDER water too, but plates the clip.

harmonic of the atomic number ?
eV of the neutron?
steps apart in the valence ring eV?
I have no idea, but Brill does.

Remember, Brilloiun didn't try to patent the process, it is considered "natural". He only patented the Q -Boxx or whatever, the pulse sweeper.

The cool thing about what Brilloiun did, is figure out what is going on.
It was studied by hundreds of researchers using nickle and platinum as hydrogen catalysts.
They were generating hydrogen, and probably overheating lots of equipment !
I wonder if any of them checked the sludge in the bottom of the tanks ?

He has supposedly got it to work for everyone eventually.

proof, please.

I haven't seen many new billionaires running around or mountains of gold all of a sudden, so I'm really doubting it.

Also, I am doubting the "Brillouin energy source," too. Have you made one, yet?

They were using YEAST to change silver to gold!
You can try this at home, i doubt it takes any additives other than sugar and de-ionized water.
Get a piece of .999 silver, put it in a jar with yeast, and see if the metal that starts floating on the scum surface, attaches itself to the coin or jewelry. 72 hours recommended.

Now, THAT's what I'm talking about! Gold in my apple cider! Should be pretty easy to verify, why hasn't anyone verified it?

I think the process is misunderstood by the guy, and that is why he is calling in "magnetic anomolys" as reasons it sometimes doesn't work for some of the folks.

Has it worked for ANY of the folks?

The cool thing about what Brilloiun did, is figure out what is going on.
It was studied by hundreds of researchers using nickle and platinum as hydrogen catalysts.
They were generating hydrogen, and probably overheating lots of equipment !

great example of why it doesn't work. they weren't overheating lots of equipment, and they were getting standard chemical reactions, like he is. They just weren't branding them as "free energy"

oh, this prob how to figure the frequency

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debye_frequency

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon

permaculture was "weed growing" for a long time too.

If you had figured out how to make gold , would you give away the secret for free?
Especially to people that ridiculed you for years?
Thomas Gold stated for years that all the concentrated metal seams were made by deep bacteria. He pointed out that there was no way for stuff to percolate that far down, in totally filled cracks, and that there were not enough other hydro features to show that water had done it. That was before they even discover Archeabacteria. Let alone realized the rift smoker communities were manufacturing metals and salts as waste products.

Some guy was chastising Golde for not giving away the Brillouin secrets for free too. He is saying the home unit will cost twice as much as a nat gas heater, and last for about 6 years, without any servicing. about the same as a standard one out here in hard water country. Think that is more than generous, for not having to pay billing fees, CF fees, taxes on sales, etc.

Sandia labs isn't reputable? SRI? Space and Naval Command?
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/spawar-space-and-naval-warfare-lenr-proof/

These guys have been trying to get just a LITTLE funding for decades. Just the F35 Joint Task Fighter is 340 BILLION over budget, and they can't get a hundred thou for any of this, and won't give out patents if you do.


There is so little we know about any molecular modification, that we don't even know what we don't know. Nobody does unfunded studies at university. Nobody gets grants since Ponds/Fleishman in Utah 20 years ago. Nobody gets peer reviewed papers unless you have university backing or partnership. Who knows how many times this has been discovered, and then patented and hidden, or classified.
If Brillioun is right about his nuetron synthesis, it means transmutation IS happening.
All of the physics we have ever been taught, is going to have to be re-examined.
Particle physics, may not even exist, as it has been taught, it is likely it is all just quantum superpositions of electrons and photons.
A huge discussion going on about that too. Is interesting to see PHd candidates that are struggling with an experiment to be instructed by there mentors to NOT try to repeat , or they can never publish, because they will never have a reproducible result.

There is almost zero repeatable experiments in physics from Maxwells classical physics forward except for wave slit interference. And we still don't know how to explain THAT simply. Well we have it named, but not tamed. Might as well be magic. Ask a physicist to explain spin to you. They have a theory, but there isn't even a full understanding of the concept. And we use it everyday to predict other effects.

http://deferentialgeometry.org/ check "what is spin"

Nobody thought graphene was a big deal at first either. Now everybody is finding out new effects, and they are doing it while trying to reproduce effects found in original papers.

How cool is that !

We don't even know what we don't know, and most of the problem is that teachers and experts stop every conversation with the second law of thermodynamics.
You never see em discuss why everything in the entire universe isn't already a pile of rust and ashes, as chemical and radioactive forces should have already reduced every element in the universe.
Est ? the reluctance of chemicals and elements to reaction, by overcoming the weak force is an actual formula.


http://www.meta-synthesis.com/webbook/35_pt/pt_database.php?PT_id=239
and especially
http://www.perfectperiodictable.com/


This is supposed to be interesting, and fun.

Morgan Morrigan wrote:permaculture was "weed growing" for a long time too.

I think fairly early on there were some demonstrable permaculture sites, which one could go visit or at least see photographs of....

If one had figured out how to make gold, ridicule would be irrelevant, because one would be a billionaire. Not from getting money from people wanting to make gold themselves, but from making gold for oneself. Like, big piles of it.

Morgan Morrigan wrote:
If you had figured out how to make gold , would you give away the secret for free?

If I knew how to do it, I wouldn't tell a soul! I'd be rich providing just enough to the world to not let anyone get ideas...

Morgan Morrigan wrote:
If you had figured out how to make gold , would you give away the secret for free?

you bet I would. I would have all the gold I want, so why would it make sense to charge others for something?

Sandia labs isn't reputable? SRI? Space and Naval Command?
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/spawar-spa...-and-naval-warfare-lenr-proof/

one possible replication with only 5 watts of power produced.

I can think of 100X the examples of these sorts of things that didn't work, compared to those that did. So, the whole "we don't know much about the universe, therefore these guys are right" argument falls flat with me.

Replications published in a peer-reviewed publication, that's what makes things credible.

Abe Connally wrote:

Morgan Morrigan wrote:
If you had figured out how to make gold , would you give away the secret for free?

you bet I would. I would have all the gold I want, so why would it make sense to charge others for something?

But if you told a lot of folks, for free or for a fee, the excess of gold would drive the value down, making your own stash worthless (or simply worth less), so the whole idea of sharing the secret, for love or money, is ridiculous unless your purpose is to devalue gold.

Tyler Ludens wrote:
But if you told a lot of folks, for free or for a fee, the excess of gold would drive the value down, making your own stash worthless (or simply worth less), so the whole idea of sharing the secret, for love or money, is ridiculous unless your purpose is to devalue gold.

only if you can actually make gold...

I'd just drop huge coins of gold in homeless people's laps. Just to change up the dynamic a little bit.

What cracks me up about this guy is he is obviously a TV repair man out of work since HDTV is way to complicated for him. So he has figured out an even more archaic system than transistor technology that is just as viable as it was 1000 years ago.That the gullibility of a person whose greed for a fast magic buck overwhelms their reasoning capacity. " Would you give me $2500 to show you how to make millions ,as easy as taking a crap ". I'm not saying I can't be fooled ,but I did'nt even fall for Amway. { people are not going to buy toilet paper through the mail } . If this guy has figured out how to turn ordinary metals into gold then he is Newton , Einstein , Hawkings , and the Big Bang all rolled into one plaid polyester suit wearing used car salesman. If I remember my high school science correctly - the elements were formed at the time of the Big Bang and the immediate cooling down process and then began to come together under gravity and form planets etc. Elements are not interchangeable - thats why they are called Elements . They do degrade into isotopes . Correct me if I am wrong , but even though I have a goatee I did get up this morning and had a nice clean shave with Occams Razor.

" If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch , you must first invent the universe . " - Carl Sagan

This is an interesting, accessible video on how different elements form in stars.

What I know about Brillouin is that he made contributions to Quantum Physics that challenged some theories of Relativity physics , not that he offered free energy to all. I do not claim to begin to understand Quantum or Relativity physics but I believe that these contraptions carrying his name do not support the kind of physical theories he proposed. He dealt alot with interactions between particles and the energy exchanges between them , not completely overturning all known scientific knowledge and devolving science to the level of midieval alchemy. Quantum physics is the challenger to Relativity physics and is the hope for a unified theory of physics. If quantum physics provided fast , cheap easy energy that you could make with washing soda and sound waves then they would not have had to built a huge collider spanning two nations for billions of dollars just to photograph a microscopic blip on the screen.

Craig Dobbelyu wrote:I'd just drop huge coins of gold in homeless people's laps. Just to change up the dynamic a little bit.

yeah, I hear that! Maybe just randomly dump gold around places where people are working hard, trying to do something good with their lives (permaculture classes?)

the problem with the stellar synthesis story, is that it isn't correct.

Lithium, Beryllium, and Boron, are all 300x less than is predicted/required for the model to work. Carbon is even still too low. All stars furnaces stop producing at Iron. So everything else is supposed to be produced in supernova. But if that were so, it would disturb all the spiral galaxy formation. There should be a LOT more irregular galaxies if it was so. And a lot more (visible) dark matter, destroyed stuff.

I am working on asteroid mining, and one of the big ways we were going to pay off the operation, was selling back all the precious metals, same as Planetary Rescources is setting up to do. They are also going to do other services, so there model isn't destroyed by a drop in the price of gold. And remember, these are all industrial metals, so if the price gets lower, the use becomes higher.
These are all great at heat exchange, electric conductivity, corrosion resistance, etc. There will always be a market for them, and as mining becomes more expensive, alternate's that are less destructive become more attractive. That is why the space mining is actually so green.

It may be that old China\Taiwan may have thousand to millions of tons of gold stashed in the mountains in Taiwan, and those old chinese could just as easily flood the market, and crash gold, as any breakthrough in transmutation. 6 trillion in Italy, 500 million in San Diego, maybe 100 trillion in the Philippines. There is some weird aliens/galactic site that has all the story in one place, but these are true bonds, with dramatic misspellings ( an old British trick), with dates to 1933-34, even if printed up to the forties. (There were major laws passed then to keep financials transparent, depression stuff, though they just backdated everything, to make it justifiable)
Each cache contains one packet of bad forgeries, all the rest are better quality printing than they are doing now.
This was supposedly done by the old Dragon families, that used to run old China, and they said they gave the gold to America, to offset the British domination of the global trading, and for dumping all that opium on their citizens. There is even US newspaper clippings of 7 warships of gold, transferred to the US treasury in the same time period.
Had the chinese figured out how to make the gold in their vinegar pots, even back then? It is said, that the one thing a family would always take when they had to move , was their vinegar pot.

Great story.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/why-were-trillions-fake-bonds-held-chicago-fed-crates

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/232515.html



Back in the 1820's some guys were making diamonds in tin cans in the fire. Nobody had a use for industrial diamonds then, so there was no market for tiny diamonds.

If even stellar synthesis is wrong, we are missing a VERY big piece of electromagnetics, and just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it is not there.

Remember , we are spending hundreds of millions on dark energy/dark matter research. And all of our physics departments at university are taken over by string theory.

Just cuz the guy looks like a used car salesman , with no literate alliterations, doesn't mean he is wrong. We have voted in worse into high legislative office lately.
Tesla was insane.
Einstein looked insane.
Still not sure about Stephan Hawking....

Morgan Morrigan wrote: That is why the space mining is actually so green.

I'm not totally convinced space mining is green, except in the sense it is currently fictional (no actual space mining actually happening) so creating no climate changing emissions in reality. But rockets to put stuff and people into space do produce emissions. And the materials to make the rockets and launch them require non-green technologies such as mining on Earth. http://atoc.colorado.edu/~toohey/basics.html

Space mining might be less harmful than Earth mining (I'm not totally convinced, just giving it a benefit of a doubt), but I would not personally call it "green." "Less bad" in my opinion is not the same as "good." And we don't actually know if space mining would be less bad. It might be the same bad, or more bad.

agree.

but the prob is in getting the eqpt there.

once the 3D printers and a couple solar reflectors are there, all the rest is super clean, cuz you have to use ALL your waste stream. don't want rocks floating around.
but everyone wants a rock and earth garage up there, for protection.

here is how you get it there , only uses nat gas, and reuseable hydrogen, and re-usable sabot.
Need a tug up in orbit to grab the capsule tho.

http://quicklaunchinc.com/

we are discussing it daily at NEAmines @ yahoogroups.

for every crazy that is a genius, there are 100 that are just crazy.

so, how do we make gold with vinegar, again?

"Vinegar" was a codeword......

Tyler Ludens wrote:"Vinegar" was a codeword......

for what? magic?

most of the way thru that 2010 review page, there is a blurb from one of the 303 licensee's that said .999 silver, put in yeasty water (beer?) will put a gold coating on the coin. Somewhere else he said 72 hours.
this was the guys first recepie i think, before he started doing the copper and electricity thing. He was selling his dirt from the backyard as a additive too!
Now that he has moved to utah, i don't think he is doing THAT anymore.

Would prob be easier to put in the .999, and add some ionic silver to up the concentration in the water.
Silver is anti-bacterial, you would think it would kill yeast too......

Havn't tried it.

Yet?

Thought there were some jewelers on this site....

So you put silver into beer and a coin and then where does the gold come from ? Are you actually saying that silver converts to gold by action of yeast ?
One element changes into another without producing huge amounts of heat and light etc. ? Previous experiments in changing elements quickly into simpler forms has produced such , never mind converting them into entirely different elements . You know , Bikini Atoll - White Sands - Hiroshima etc. Seems that if you could get silver to change to gold there would at least be some boiling beer in your cup . I personally have not tried this but I know some other middle aged men who have tried to bathe in beer and convert themselves into a more golden version of themselves - more handsome, atheletic , and intelligent - that only seems to last until the beer runs out.

Am just guessing from the info posted on the site.
didn't you guys read it?

But,

If you read the info on the Brillouin neutron synthesis, that is exactly what is happening.

they are converting Hydrogen to Dueterium, to Tritium, to Quadrium, and then it collapses to helium, releasing heat. (as a photon, or a phonon, not sure what is happening there) I didn't ever know there was such a thing as quadrium. And there are still lots of spectra lines in the solar spectra, that don't align with any known elements either.

Phonons are just getting to be understood , mainly because of graphene. They are trying to make it a semi-conductor. In the process they have found that phonons must be doing some other heavy lifting.
Carbon nanotubes (or graphene sheets in rolls) can be used as a heat sink, to materials they are not physically connected too ! In other words, they can transfer heat by induction, without even using heat pipes or fluid. Thru an intervening material.
and another induction story here http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.0161

Everything you ever learned about astronomy, physics, and electricity is most likely wrong. And not just the physical sciences, forestry, ag, wastewater, medicine. People just keep repeating the same stuff over and over, but they can't reproduce any of the experiments that all those basics were built on, unless it is Maxwell era classical physics.

College kids in the basement, built a neutron emmiter, to show that magnets wouldn't effect the beam. But they did, and it wasn't a super duper electromagnet either. midwest university.

https://permies.com/t/14256/alternative-energy/Rossi-Cat-real-just-not

https://permies.com/t/14940/alternative-energy/Brillouin-cat-latest-video


I am glad you are amused, but just saying, it sure looks like he has done it with the copper system. The yeast was a first go. But it does always come down to beer, doesn't it ?




And if i was building a new house , i would certainly build in in-floor heating, and radiators upstairs. There is going to be BIG demand for PEXX pipefitters if the Brill heaters come out in late 2013, early 2014. Might start getting certified for hot water plumbing now......

Which of the post Maxwell era experiments have they been unable to repeat ? Wearing a lab coat and a stethoscope does not make one a doctor . Filling pages
with mathematical formula and a tossed salad of scientific terminology is not proof of results. Just makes it appear that way to those who do not know. Creationists are using this tactic successfully - A museum with man and dinosaur romping together is not proof that they did but it convinces some due to the appearance of scientific validity that a museum provides. The second law of thermodynamics is being used by creationists to prove that evolution did not happen . They state that law proves that life on earth should move toward entropy and could not have gained complexity. Easily answered by " that law applies to a closed system - earth is an open system since it recieves energy from the Sun". The best answer for someone who wishes to prove a point with "talk to me about the second law of thermodynamics " is " first lets talk about the first , third , and zeroth". I'd put money on no discussion coming your way on those matters. Carl Sagan stated " Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary proof ". This is an extrordinary claim , where is the extraordinary proof . If you could make gold in your kitchen , we should at least see gold prices falling to the level of aluminum soon. This is not Galileos era . The church is not the overlord of thought . If someone could overturn centuries of belief and experimental data with a process like this and then reveal it for a small fee , thosands would be happy to prove Einstein and Newton completely wrong. They would be the greatest mind on earth.

just about 80%? of every medical trial, particle physics experiment, and astronomical survey.

a lot of condensed matter and material science stuff is repeatable, but not fully understood.
classical mechanics, and a lot of basic electricity is ok, but still not working with reality. basic capacitor function is working, but still not understood. Holes. Gate function. Static electricity. I would say at least half of magnetism theory is off too.

There are lots of working theory's, that we can model with to give us end products we expect, but just how these things are REALLY working, we still don't have a true understanding.
They still can't explain how electrical current can move amperage near the speed of light, but that the charge in the conductor typically moves at centimeters per minute!

Bill amasci's site is a real eye-opener about the basics of electricity that you thought you knew all about.

http://amasci.com/ele-edu.html

just put this up in the Ecat thread, but IF the isotope and element creation postulated by Brillouin is correct, the neutron synthesis part of it doesn't seem that far out anyway.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120615104347.htm